Rude rejections: how to eradicate them?

From what I've learned from male friends, finding a date this way is a lot like doing cold calls in sales. Sometimes, it just works, and you meet the girl of your dreams on the subway. Most times, though, it's hard work and can be demoralizing. I don't think it's inherently creepy or wrong, but I feel kind of sorry for the guys who go about it this way.

 

I would recommend signing up for some co-ed activities. Some club of interest - heck even a book club! Also continue to expand your circle of platonic friends. This exponentially increases the number of people that you can have the opportunity to know. If you don't like going to bars or clubs - try throwing a barbeque at a local park or the beach. Invite all of your friends (even aquaintances) and more than likely they will bring friends of their own. This will give you a chance to get to know a woman in a mellow setting - you already have friends in common and will have a topic of conversation. Plus, everyone loves the person who throws the party, so you have that in your favor. The minute you stop looking for love and start living your life - the women will come out of the woodwork - it's a proven fact!

I was with you up until the last sentence. Men who are not the Clooney/Pitt types DO have to be more proactive about it. In my experience, when I was not looking, I'm not going out of my way to introduce myself to a woman I might see at a social event. And when I did meet and talk women at events like this, if I wasn't looking I wouldn't ask for a number, wouldn't suggest getting together in the future, and then I might not see her again. Unless women perceive a man as "hot" and are are proactive about getting HIS attention, a man has to be in the mindset of "looking" to be motivated to make the first move.

Your other suggestions are all excellent ways of getting introduced to more women without dealing with the meat-market bar scene.

n my experience, when I was not looking, I'm not going out of my way to introduce myself to a woman I might see at a social event. And when I did meet and talk women at events like this, if I wasn't looking I wouldn't ask for a number, wouldn't suggest getting together in the future, and then I might not see her again. Unless women perceive a man as "hot" and are are proactive about getting HIS attention, a man has to be in the mindset of "looking" to be motivated to make the first move.

Without starting a big thread about relative "hotness," I'd have to say that there are very few Pitts and Clooneys out there. There are, however, a ton of nice, funny, interesting guys that don't break mirrors. Being one of those will not stop women from getting your number.

I guess I'm always surprised to find out that some men won't even talk to women unless they are looking for a date. Do you not have any female friends, then?

Without starting a big thread about relative "hotness," I'd have to say that there are very few Pitts and Clooneys out there. There are, however, a ton of nice, funny, interesting guys that don't break mirrors. Being one of those will not stop women from getting your number.

Get real, it is most often the man who asks a woman for her number, not the other way around. The Pitts & Cloony's may have woman walk up and hand over their numbers, but this is a RARE event for most men.

A woman may find a guy cute or interested, but they almost always wait for him to make the first move. And if he doesn't, it never goes further.

Naturally, there are exceptions, but do you not agree that this is the rule?

I guess I'm always surprised to find out that some men won't even talk to women unless they are looking for a date. Do you not have any female friends, then?

Of course I have female friends. Not every conversation with a woman is about getting a date. When I was looking I talked to more women than when I wasn't looking. But I was doing nothing to meet new woman, that's exactly what happened.

A woman may find a guy cute or interested, but they almost always wait for him to make the first move. And if he doesn't, it never goes further.

 

Naturally, there are exceptions, but do you not agree that this is the rule?

Of course I have female friends. Not every conversation with a woman is about getting a date. When I was looking I talked to more women than when I wasn't looking. But I was doing nothing to meet new woman, that's exactly what happened.

I guess I'm one of the exceptions (and most of my friends). But I usually don't "walk up" and hand my number over - It's usually after having a great conversation with them. That's why I said that these things happen when you aren't looking for it - if you are talking to a woman because you find her cool and interesting, then she is going to enjoy your company and want more of it.

The idea of just walking up and handing someone my phone number seems just as problematic and weird as asking out guys in the checkout line of the grocery store. On what basis would I do that? Their looks? Not really enough for me - and absolutely no indication of their sanity, intelligence or personality (all very important!). I guess I just have a more "naturalistic" view towards meeting potential dates - going out to look for one seems so much colder than discovering one while talking to them.

 

Can anyone here teach me how to completely shatter the ego and/or spirit of someone who chooses to reject me rudely?

R u serious?! haha! Yeah the magic phrase to shatter someones ego is....There is nothing u can say, just sack up and take it like a man. If they are a confident person there is nothing that a stranger can say that will totally shatter their ego.

Lights,

I can sort of understand you. I suffer rejection all the time too but not at the initial stage like you, it happens to me usually 1 or 2 months into the boyfriend/girlfriend stage. The frustration is unbearable at times and I often ask myself 'maybe it's because I have nothing to offer?' type questions. I know I have self confidence issues to sort out, which is easier said than done but trying to get revenge and force women to respect you will only take you backwards.

In the initial stage I don't really have problems with rejectionl, so I can give a bit of advice.

This last one happened while I was leaving the gym. I don't go to bars; I hate nightlife. I passed by and asked her what the text on her shirt stood for. "IT'S A SHIRT! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?" She immediately then turned and left.

This is a mistake right here. The gym isn't a good place to meet women, the only exception is if they come to you. Like other female posters here said, women like to be left alone at the gym and see it as sleazy if guys try to pick them up there. Even a simple harmless comment like you made can annoy them because they become extra touchy in a place like the gym. I've met 2 girls before at the gym but that's only because they came to me. So forget picking up at the gym.

This might sound like a contradiction but you should also not always set out like you're on a 'mission' to meet a girl. I can't speak for others but I've always met women when I expected it least, I don't know why but it just seems to happen like that. This 'I'm on a mission, failure isn't an option' attitude will bring much rejection and only maybe some success. Just do whatever it is you're doing and wait for a sign from a girl and then make your move.

Hope this can help you

This is a mistake right here. The gym isn't a good place to meet women, the only exception is if they come to you...So forget picking up at the gym.

It has never been any choice of mine. Where I come from, as I was explaining to Jcster, there are no places wherein people necessarily will welcome being approached. And since no one in my lifetime so far has ever approached me, I have no choice but to approach people in a more 'opportunistic' or 'proactive' manner in the fashion that I do, or else guarantee my own total isolation from all possible dating-related things. Given the situation and the cultural limitations here, every form of approach I make is necessarily a mistake by your definition, and I must then necessarily forget meeting anyone anywhere, and spend the rest of my life praying for the few remaining people who give a turd about me to introduce me to everyone. That's not a life choice I have any intention of making.

You should bring a friend with you next time and have them watch you talk to people - they might be able to let you know what you are doing wrong.

Quite a good tactic in theory; I would have done this sort of thing long ago, but in reality I don't have the luxury of knowing long ahead of time where I will be when a woman of potential interest passes by.

If you are continually experiencing rudeness from people that you are attempting to meet, then you really need to look at what YOU are doing, rather than what they are doing. The common denominator here is you and your approach.

Location-specific things aside (since no locations would necessarily have been any better, and I'm not interested in arguing about gyms when I might be somewhere else when I pass by the next woman of potential interest), what would have made for a highly attractive approach, or at the barest minimum should it fail, one that would get me a respectful rejection?

This is not going to make you popular with anyone. It sounds a little scary (in a crazy way) actually - and no one likes a scary person.

As I was explaining to Lonelybird, it might be the case that being shown respect as an unpopular, scary, crazy person (even if, as Trimmer mentioned, the respect is based on fear) may be a better situation than being forced into being an open target for potential unlimited future opportunities for disrespect.

It's simple self-preservation on my part.

Pure comedy gold. If only I was in any emotional state lending itself to laughter...

"You all right bro? You've been looking pretty spooked."

"Oh, it's just this chick at a bookstore."

"Heh. It's always a girl, right?"

"Yeah. Friendly, and pretty too. Walked up and introduced herself, and asked to chat over some coffee."

"Bad date?"

"What?! I don't show up in public places to get hit on! I cursed that bytçh out right on the spot. That got her out my sight."

"Huh?"

"It's self-preservation! Who knows what she would have done?!"

I've been rudely rejected or ignored when I thought I shouldn't have been, and I just learned to deal with it by immediately and abruptly ignoring her and going on about my business.

This is what I did. (It's kind of what happens by default, anyways.) I have no reason to believe it permanently put an end to all future such possible actions.

Those times when you run into a bona fide queen bytch, you just have to sort of give them the "WTF?" look. I've done that before and it puts it all back on them - especially if you know how to pull it off and you do it right in front of their friends. You make them think "Damn, you know, I guess I'm being a bytch, hunh?"

Could you give me more specifics as to how to specifically give this look? This sounds like very useful advice, but your description of "The WTF look" doesn't explain much to me.

But whatever, the point is, you have to just roll with it and not give a sh*t.

I have heard talk of this nature before, but it raises a very basic question: If I didn't give a shyt, why would I bother talking with anyone at all in the first place? People who don't give a shyt have no reason to show social proactivity towards anyone.

Pure comedy gold. If only I was in any emotional state lending itself to laughter...

 

"You all right bro? You've been looking pretty spooked."

"Oh, it's just this chick at a bookstore."

"Heh. It's always a girl, right?"

"Yeah. Friendly, and pretty too. Walked up and introduced herself, and asked to chat over some coffee."

"Bad date?"

"What?! I don't show up in public places to get hit on! I cursed that bytçh out right on the spot. That got her out my sight."

"Huh?"

"It's self-preservation! Who knows what she would have done?!"

You've obviously never been unwelcomely chased by someone. What usually will happen is this:

1. You notice guy staring at you. You attempt to avoid eye contact and keep moving around so that you're not caught in a "free to talk" position.

2. You stop to tie your shoe, shuffle something on your arm, stub you toe...damn! You're caught.

3. Guy walks up and says something that is obviously meant to create further conversation. You don't want to be rude, so you respond half heartedly. This creates an awkward conversation that you attempt to end as quickly as possible. Guy asks you for your phone number. You say no.

4. Guy is always there when you are there. Comes up to make inane conversation...asks you for your phone number. Tells you what a great person they are and how you are missing out. Repeat until you are insane.

5. You change gyms.

OR....you nip it at step 3 and say...I really don't want to talk to you! In whatever manner you think will work. Better rude than plagued to insanity.

Well can you tell us what exactly she did that made it a RUDE REJECTION?

5. You change gyms.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I do not want to continue harping on about gyms since it very well might be the case that the next time I encounter a woman of potential interest I might be somewhere entirely different.

I will ask it again: location-specific matters aside (as no specific locations in my culture are necessarily any better), what sorts of approaches are highly attractive and, at the barest minimum in the case of their failures, will result in one being rejected respectfully?

Could you give me more specifics as to how to specifically give this look? This sounds like very useful advice, but your description of "The WTF look" doesn't explain much to me.

It's a raise eyebrow expression, as though you are a bit puzzled and surprised by the fact that they're so bent out of shape. But the way you "win" is by showing them that while you might be a bit surprised and puzzled, you're not angry.

I have heard talk of this nature before, but it raises a very basic question: If I didn't give a shyt, why would I bother talking with anyone at all in the first place? People who don't give a shyt have no reason to show social proactivity towards anyone.

I'll address the 'social proactivity' later, but your bottom line is, you're letting rejection affect your ego. You cannot control people, Lights. You can only control yourself. If some woman brushes you aside or ignores you, then you just have to move on to someone who won't do that. You're getting pissed off because you take the issue of rejection personally, but you can't do that. You have to have a lot of pride in yourself. You're never going to teach someone to respect you, as though you were their father or something - doesn't work that way. You just have to have enough pride in yourself to say "Meh, whatever! Didn't need her anyway."

The whole "social proactivity" stuff...I'm not sure what your strategy is. I suspect you're going about it all wrong. I think it's good that you're approaching women, but how you do it is key. Some dudes can pick up a woman anywhere; some can't. For me, I hate bars and I really don't like chatting up chicks at random joints. I like to just get to know someone naturally, as though we were just meeting each other and having a normal conversation. Women know when you're hitting on them. Be real. Sitting around at a gym and waiting for a girl to talk to just seems a bit weird, honestly.

Light

You have to give first in order to receive.

if Your mindset is giving-pattern, such as give respect, friendly smile, forgiveness...., you will succeed in social activities. No matter what others reaction to you, you still determine to keep giving friendly smile, forgiveness, understanding, empathy.... I BET women would chase after you:p Women LOVE big hearted man. sometimes women will test your ego level. big ego is a bad news for women

If you want to punish them, that only scare them off more.

so the conclusion would be "work on yourself toward a big heart" first

It has never been any choice of mine. Where I come from, as I was explaining to Jcster, there are no places wherein people necessarily will welcome being approached. And since no one in my lifetime so far has ever approached me, I have no choice but to approach people in a more 'opportunistic' or 'proactive' manner in the fashion that I do, or else guarantee my own total isolation from all possible dating-related things. Given the situation and the cultural limitations here, every form of approach I make is necessarily a mistake by your definition, and I must then necessarily forget meeting anyone anywhere, and spend the rest of my life praying for the few remaining people who give a turd about me to introduce me to everyone. That's not a life choice I have any intention of making.

Ok now it's abit clearer. Where do you live? This will help to understand.

I just assumed you were American. I live in Sydney, Australia by the way.

It has never been any choice of mine. Where I come from, as I was explaining to Jcster, there are no places wherein people necessarily will welcome being approached. And since no one in my lifetime so far has ever approached me, I have no choice but to approach people in a more 'opportunistic' or 'proactive' manner in the fashion that I do...

Lights, it sounds like you have convinced yourself that because you are hungry, you have "no choice" but to do the interpersonal equivalent of breaking and entering - forcing yourself in where you are not wanted.

I think that in order to avoid the rude rejections, you need to do a much better job of "reading" when your initial approach is unwelcome. About rude-gym-woman, I asked you:

For example, you say you were passing her. Had you ever seen her before, or was this the first 3 seconds you had ever seen each other? Did she make eye contact with you? Any smile or positive facial expression? Did you try initiating eye contact and smiling at her first to see what her reaction would be? Was there any body language opening at all?

... and you answered "no" to all of the above. Well, given that, even without hearing the outcome, I could guess you were a pretty high probability for a train wreck, and that's a judgement I make in a split second when I encounter a woman. You interrupted her - not "her workout" as you responded when I proposed that point initially - but you interrupted her space, her life, her personal sphere, whatever you want to call it - you forced yourself into a place where you were not given any indication of welcome, and where she may well have felt she was actually giving signals that no approach would be welcome.

Now, I have a feeling you will respond, "but if I paid attention to this, I wouldn't have any opportunities at all, so I have no choice..." In which case you are in a logical bind. You feel that no one gives you any opening, in any social situation you seem to have access to, so your solution is to attempt to force yourself in to create possibilities. What you are finding, in these rude rejections, is that you are forcing yourself upon people who gave you no opening, and therefore felt you intruded where you were not welcome. Whether or not this excuses the rudeness is actually not the main point here - the point is that it is a reasonable explanation for the reactions you are observing, and this explanation is consistent with your "I have no choice, I have to do it this way" attitude.

Lights, you feel entitled; with all of this "no choice, so I have to" talk, you feel like the world owes you opportunities with women, and so you are going to go out and make them, and you damn well better get respect along the way.

Given the situation and the cultural limitations here, every form of approach I make is necessarily a mistake by your definition, and I must then necessarily forget meeting anyone anywhere, and spend the rest of my life praying for the few remaining people who give a turd about me to introduce me to everyone. That's not a life choice I have any intention of making.

I have the same question as Lino above: just what kind of a place/culture are you living in? You seem to be in a place where there are unmarried women free to roam the world in places like gyms; just what kinds of cultural restrictions are preventing any opportunities for socializing in a more comfortable setting? Are these really cultural limitations, or are they personal ones you have? How do your contemporaries in your "culture" do it?

Location-specific things aside (since no locations would necessarily have been any better, and I'm not interested in arguing about gyms when I might be somewhere else when I pass by the next woman of potential interest), what would have made for a highly attractive approach, or at the barest minimum should it fail, one that would get me a respectful rejection?

The wonderfulness of your approach won't help. Being better at recognizing when your approach is unwanted will help immensely. Just today I was in a grocery store and a woman I've never seen before made eye contact with me and smiled. It didn't take 3 seconds or any significant amount of time like you have protested earlier - it was a flash over passing shopping carts, probably no longer than your initial exposure to rude-gym-girl - but it was eye contact, smile, and an "open" look. I know that if I had chosen to speak to her, there would have been very little chance of rudeness.

On the other hand, there were probably 50 other women going about the business of shopping, looking at cans of soup or boxes of cereal, or picking out produce. If I had found one of them attractive and wanted to approach, without an opening, I would expect a pretty high probability of rejection, and possibly a rude one. Now if I could catch her eye, and get a facial acknowledgement - especially a smile, that's gold! - then there's a chance, but without that opening, I wouldn't even think to move on to anything like "what's that on your shirt..." because I can tell when someone is in her own space and not interested in contact.

I'm guessing that either you can't, or you've convinced yourself that your options are so limited, that you're not going to concern yourself with that, and I'm telling your that this is why a high proportion of your rejections are rude ones.

As I was explaining to Lonelybird, it might be the case that being shown respect as an unpopular, scary, crazy person (even if, as Trimmer mentioned, the respect is based on fear) may be a better situation than being forced into being an open target for potential unlimited future opportunities for disrespect.

No one other than yourself is causing you to be "forced into being an open target..." This is crazy talk. I think you need to look at your own motivations and goals here. Which is your higher goal: to eventually meet a woman who might be attracted to you, or to eradicate all possibility of a rude rejection in the future? If the latter truly dominates, then go ahead and cultivate the "angry, crazy guy" aura and word will get around, but you will throw away the former in the process.

This is what I did. (It's kind of what happens by default, anyways.) I have no reason to believe it permanently put an end to all future such possible actions.

NOTHING WILL. Nothing will, do you get that? Your best shot is to become more sensitive to the signs that a woman might not welcome your advances. If you refuse to see the benefit of this, and to cultivate this skill, you will continue to get rude rejections.

I have heard talk of this nature before, but it raises a very basic question: If I didn't give a shyt, why would I bother talking with anyone at all in the first place? People who don't give a shyt have no reason to show social proactivity towards anyone.

Actually, not giving a shyt is something you could to learn to apply better in some ways, but in another way it is also your curse.

You didn't give a shyt about the woman in the gym. Your reaction was more oriented to figuring out how to crush her spirit than to understand why it was that she might have felt so threatened by your approach that she barked at you. Are you able, even a little, to put yourself in her position and try to understand, from her perspective, why things might have happened as they did? The same question applies to any of the other women you have gotten rude rejections from...

All I know is when that woman smiled at me in the store, I could imagine her openness and I could tell she had an attitude I might have connected with. On the other hand, when I imagine another woman going about her shopping, head down, no eye contact, etc., I can imagine someone just wanting to get things done and get out of the store and home, and I can totally understand how an approach might be unwelcome.

I don't know, maybe empathy is something you can't teach, but I think it helps in these kinds of situations.

It's a raise eyebrow expression, as though you are a bit puzzled and surprised by the fact that they're so bent out of shape. But the way you "win" is by showing them that while you might be a bit surprised and puzzled, you're not angry.

Thank you, Amerikajin.

Ok now it's abit clearer. Where do you live? This will help to understand.

I just assumed you were American. I live in Sydney, Australia by the way.

I am American. Lino, could you please send me a private message? There's something earlier in this thread you wrote that I'd like to learn more about.

Lights, you feel entitled; with all of this "no choice, so I have to" talk, you feel like the world owes you opportunities with women, and so you are going to go out and make them, and you damn well better get respect along the way.

Maybe.

Not that the world "owes" me opportunities with women necessarily, but rather that I've been shoved against my will into a rather restrictive situation (no one approaching me and asking me out on dates, no places necessarily lending themselves to flirting being viewed as something positive) despite my own use of the local social skills, and I'm not going to take it lying down. And after being burned untold numbers of times for inordinate amounts of time and having always been shouldering the full burden and risks of all possible rejections, and also seeing no end to any part of this situation in sight, finding myself insulted outright put an end to the last of my patience.

I have the same question as Lino above: just what kind of a place/culture are you living in? You seem to be in a place where there are unmarried women free to roam the world in places like gyms; just what kinds of cultural restrictions are preventing any opportunities for socializing in a more comfortable setting? Are these really cultural limitations, or are they personal ones you have? How do your contemporaries in your "culture" do it?

Right idea, but wrong question. It's not about whether anyone's free to roam; it's that no places necessarily are more "comfortable", to use your terminology, where I come from. I don't know how many times I have to say it. There are no places here wherein people will necessarily tend to more often welcome being flirted with, contrary to any amount of urban mythology being spread.

My contemporaries have done various things, all of which are equally low-percentage, "weird", or "uncomfortable", wherein people generally consider being flirted with as something utterly irritating, if not incomprehensible. Examples of locations wherein I know that some contemporaries have attempted to meet people include sports or hobbies (approaching there is unwelcome as people go to those to do the activity in question, not to chat with new people), universities (likewise, as people go to universities to study or advance their careers, not to meet new people their friends haven't identified; after one's collegiate days, regardless of one's own social intentions or lack thereof, the sight of someone at a university who isn't one's co-worker necessarily will render all who detect the sight terrified, as such a person is invariably viewed as a dangerous threat and competitor), nightlife (where daring to speak with anyone who isn't a friend one already arrived to the scene with is considered a horrifying, all-but-unheard-of tabu, and mass amounts of alcohol are required by most to gain the capacity to sit around and pretend that they might have a chance at meeting anyone at all while hiding within self-isolating cliques reminiscent of junior high school lunch tables), or even local superstition indoctrination centers (this I have no use for and cannot verify anything about directly).

They don't do anything much different than anything I've ever done, save for getting treated better and finding more of the process more enjoyable.

The wonderfulness of your approach won't help. Being better at recognizing when your approach is unwanted will help immensely.

Ok.

I don't know, maybe empathy is something you can't teach, but I think it helps in these kinds of situations.

I'll see then.

I better stop writing about this soon. I'm getting more and more bitter just by thinking about this.

Lights, I'm sorry but for some reason the website won't let me access my private messages?!? I don't know how to send you one...

I can relate to how you feel, I get bitter thinking about these things too but I find it helpful to talk about it both on this site and to others in real life.

 

My contemporaries have done various things, all of which are equally low-percentage, "weird", or "uncomfortable", wherein people generally consider being flirted with as something utterly irritating, if not incomprehensible. Examples of locations wherein I know that some contemporaries have attempted to meet people include sports or hobbies (approaching there is unwelcome as people go to those to do the activity in question, not to chat with new people), universities (likewise, as people go to universities to study or advance their careers, not to meet new people their friends haven't identified; after one's collegiate days, regardless of one's own social intentions or lack thereof, the sight of someone at a university who isn't one's co-worker necessarily will render all who detect the sight terrified, as such a person is invariably viewed as a dangerous threat and competitor), nightlife (where daring to speak with anyone who isn't a friend one already arrived to the scene with is considered a horrifying, all-but-unheard-of tabu, and mass amounts of alcohol are required by most to gain the capacity to sit around and pretend that they might have a chance at meeting anyone at all while hiding within self-isolating cliques reminiscent of junior high school lunch tables), or even local superstition indoctrination centers (this I have no use for and cannot verify anything about directly).

Unless you live in Iran where there are strong cultural prohibitions against social interaction between people of the opposite sex who are not married or related, your view is heavily skewed by your bad experiences.

Anywhere in America, here is the truth:

In general, woman who are unmarried do not object to being approched by men they find attractive. Many women DO feel uncomfortable when approched my men they do not find attractive for some reason. When you go out on Friday noght a see couples everywhere, do you really think they all knew each other since grade school? Do you believe all of those people just happened to have suitable people in their social circle?

You should not be looking for a way to be rejected more resectfully. A rejection is a rejection. Instead you should be figuring out how to NOT be rejected.

If a women is not receptive to your approaches, is it for one of the following reasons....

1) She's in a relationship,

2) She is having a bad day, or in a hurry,

3) She is very attractive and is approched several times a week by guys trying to hit on her. I believe jcster is in this catagory.

4) She has other issues that make is suspicious or fearful of men she doesn't know (crime victem, etc), or is painfully shy.

5) She doesn't find you attractive for whatever reason.

Since you have no control over 1-5 and might not have a way of knowing 1,2 or 4, you need to work on 5. Make yourself more attractive. The more attractive you make yourself, the less rejections you'll get. The rejections will less likely be "rude," and you'll get women giving you an opening by making eye contact or starting conversations with you.

How do you do that?

1) You already go to a gym. That's great. Book an appointment with a personal trainer to get you exercise routine dialed in for what you want your body to be like. Also read up on nutition and eat a duet that supports your fitness goals. You want prominent muscle definition in your shoulders, arms and abs and no more than 10-12 percent body fat. This kind of body draws women like D-cup cleavage draws men.

2) Get a good haircut. Don't go to Supercuts. Go to a salon that caters primarily to women (most cut men's hair too). Book an appointment with a stylist who is attractive and about your age. DON'T tell how to cut your hair. Tell her that you trust her professional judgement of what kinds of haircuts look good on what kinds of men. Tell her you want what she considers to be the best stylish haircut that complements your face and the kind of hair you have. Women who cut hair know better than you what haircuts look good with different faces and different kinds of hair. You'll pay more for this haircut, but it WILL make you more attractive to women.

3) Get some nice clothes. Identify an attractive women you know who is about your age. Pick one who is married who is is confident you are not hitting on her. Get her advice on what clothes to buy. Get her to go to the mall if possible to help you pick clothes that compliment. Don't forget shoes. Women do judge men by the shoes that where, and will negatively judge men with worn, ratty shoes (exception: women love worn cowboy boots in some parts of the country).

Contrary to what many people saw, women care about a man's appearance just as much as men care about a woman's appeareace. Don't think that you're just not good looking. Look at actors who make themselves hot or nerds or slobs depending on the role. Exercise, diet, haircut, clothes and shoes go a long way.

Contrary to what many people saw, women care about a man's appearance just as much as men care about a woman's appeareace. Don't think that you're just not good looking. Look at actors who make themselves hot or nerds or slobs depending on the role. Exercise, diet, haircut, clothes and shoes go a long way.

I agree with what you are saying, StayClose, but one thing that women are good at is reading faces and body language. We detect frustration, anger and desperation very easily. Emotional aggression is a big turnoff. No haircut in the world is going to fix the damage a bad attitude will cause.

3) She is very attractive and is approched several times a week by guys trying to hit on her. I believe jcster is in this catagory.

Wow! Thanks! I'm not bad looking. But my "biggest" problem is my bust size. The type of guys that chase you down just based upon your measurements are an entirely new world of skank. Guess I'm a little gunshy when it comes to being approached by strange men.

That creates a delema for guys like me who like big breasts but respect women enough to know that the rest of the package (intelligence, personality compatibility, etc) are much more important factors in a relationship than bust size. It seems to be prefectly acceptable for women to favor men who are tall and an athletic build, and for men to be attracted to women because they are tall or they have red hair or whatever, but for many large-busted women, if they suspect a man is approching them because of their bust size, then he is a creep.

Because of that, if a man finds a women attractive because of her bust size, he has to find something else about her he finds attractive, preferablely a personality factor, and convey that the other quality is what drew him to her.

Because of that, if a man finds a women attractive because of her bust size, he has to find something else about her he finds attractive, preferablely a personality factor, and convey that the other quality is what drew him to her.

Bless you, by the way! But yes, you do have a bit more of a hurdle to overcome. I've been hit on by men of all ages since I was 13 years old. It's warped me a little bit, because I now DEMAND that they see something else in me other than my wrapper.

As for finding something else to find attractive about her to give as a reason for approaching - I think that's true of most women. We're a tough bunch to please - we want you to be dazzled by our beauty but choose us for our wit and personality. You will always come out ahead if you resist mentioning our boobs until we actually let you touch them

...your view is heavily skewed by your bad experiences.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Those were not solely my own direct experiences, but also what I've found out indirectly; it was also what I had seen even if I hang back and watch everyone else. I thus have no reason to believe the urban myth that there are any locations wherein women necessarily want to be met and flirted with, or that any locations are necessarily "comfortable".

When you go out on Friday noght a see couples everywhere, do you really think they all knew each other since grade school? Do you believe all of those people just happened to have suitable people in their social circle?

Not necessarily the former. The latter, absolutely yes.

I thus have no reason to believe the urban myth that there are any locations wherein women necessarily want to be met and flirted with, or that any locations are necessarily "comfortable".

Huh? Urban myths are the "I thought it was a dog but it was a rat" stories. It sounds like you've already made up your mind that you are correct and that everyone else here is pulling your leg. Heaven forfend that a WOMAN would tell you the locales that a WOMAN prefers to be approached. Obviously as a WOMAN I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Good luck - you are definitely going to need it.

Most women like to be flirted with, pretty much anywhere, assuming it's by someone she doesn't find ugly or threatening and it isn't done in an obnoxious manner. Even if the guy is not attractive to her per se, it is still flattering for most women, unless they are extremely used to it.

I think StayClose provided some good advice, as did Trimmer, but you seem to providing all these reasons why not and suggesting where you come from is so different from any other place. I think you want to be correct that most women are rude and need to be shut down; you don't seem to want to meet anyone. So since you don't want to meet anyone (as far as I can tell), maybe not approaching anyone might be the best approach for now, at least until you feel a bit less bitter. You can be sure you won't get any rude rejections that way, as I said ages ago.

All single guys have to go what you go through to some degree. Sure, some are better at approaching women than others, but you act like you alone have to deal with rejection and that your city has such a peculiar culture so as to render what other guys routinely do as impossible for you. That's not going to get you anywhere, so you might as well quit now.

Most women like to be flirted with, pretty much anywhere, assuming it's by someone she doesn't find ugly or threatening and it isn't done in an obnoxious manner. Even if the guy is not attractive to her per se, it is still flattering for most women, unless they are extremely used to it.

Ok.

I think StayClose provided some good advice, as did Trimmer, but you seem to providing all these reasons why not and suggesting where you come from is so different from any other place.

I'm merely providing reasons that I have not to believe that any locations within my sphere of operations necessarily are places wherein people necessarily will view approaches and flirting particularly more positively than in others.

I'd very much prefer to be wrong here; it'd be mighty convenient for me if there actually were locations in my area where women went specifically to be met and flirted with, as Jcster claimed, and that are "comfortable", as Trimmer claimed. But I have seen no evidence to believe that there are, and I've both encountered directly and witnessed at a distance a preponderance of evidence to the contrary. Therefore, as I explained to Trimmer, I use something closer to the "pretty much anywhere" approach you mentioned above instead.

I think you want to be correct that most women are rude and need to be shut down; you don't seem to want to meet anyone.So since you don't want to meet anyone (as far as I can tell), maybe not approaching anyone might be the best approach for now, at least until you feel a bit less bitter. You can be sure you won't get any rude rejections that way, as I said ages ago.

I have never made any such claims at all. The question I asked wasn't at all about all women; just a few that I've encountered.

All single guys have to go what you go through to some degree. Sure, some are better at approaching women than others, but you act like you alone have to deal with rejection and that your city has such a peculiar culture so as to render what other guys routinely do as impossible for you. That's not going to get you anywhere, so you might as well quit now.

The issue was the disrespect, not the rejection. But that matter's been answered by most everyone here, including you, already.

As far as how many other men go through whatever they go through, I couldn't care less.

I'm not claiming that meeting people is impossible. Just that, unlike what other posters here have claimed, that no particular locations are inherently advantageous for doing so.

If what the other posters describe about specific locations is true in their areas, then perhaps my area is peculiar. Or maybe my own life is just plain warped. I've literally met more friendly people wandering in an airport before a flight than in the sum total of all my time in nightclubs.

DoIAsk42Much, can you send me a private message? I would like to send you one but apparently cannot.