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The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:25 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Serendipity55 View Post
My xMM said his marital problems are all down to me - that without me in his life they will probably get on much better. Perhaps this is true but I wonder if as you've all said I'm providing the romantic love that he wants and without me he'll struggle, which is why he's come back time and time again.

I'm not saying he's a good guy but I feel like when I read Jenkins' posts I'm reading his mind. Maybe I'm being too generous.
The above paragraph makes my blood boil just a little. This is yet another type of contradiction. In your initial post, you mentioned him saying he had difficulty talking with his wife or something like that. Well -

His marital problems are not your concern.

No, really.

None of his problems are your concern.

If you are a part of his life, he says that his marriage will be better. If you are not a part of his life, he acts as if it isn't, because he keeps ringing your phone.

I mean, which is it??!?! Then and again -

His marital problems are not your concern.

No, really...

None of his problems are your concern.

You have been providing him with this grand romantic love of yours that he likely has been feeding back into his home and his life, his family, his wife...

What has he been providing to you?
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Old 23rd December 2017, 3:49 AM   #32
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I find this from him to be pure and utter nonsense.

if he had to tell his W about me he'd tell her he loved me and that we'd had a long-term relationship.

Honestly this guy is awful. He's told you he isn't leaving....as it would just be another same relationship with you.

If he was with you...he would be looking for an OW. He likes having a wife and family...and a mistress on the side.

He does seem to realise that's wrong and harmful to his marriage....but when you make it did easy for him... he's right back in there.

OW tolerate awful behaviour in affairs. You'd never tolerate the same of a single guy. You allow his marital status to be an excuse for booty calls, not being taken out and and lack of contact etc

The bar is so low with a MM. You have to push your expectations right down... so that a simple "Hi, I've missed you" feels like a lottery win.

It's no way to live your life.

You need the strength to stop communicating with him and quite block him.. do he can focus on his marriage.

Model the kind of relationship you'd want for your daughter.

Your worth more...start believing that you can and will do way better than this.

You have the ability to meet a lovely man to share your life with. This MM is wasting your time and energy...while impacting on your emotional well-being.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 11:15 AM   #33
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Serendipity,

As one who has been there and fallen hard for someone I really shouldn't have.... and as someone whose depression is making it awfully hard to see the writing on the wall and let it go... I just want you to know I am following your story and I hurt for you. I wish I had words of wisdom, but I am probably one of the least-wise, least-recovered people on LS. Just know you're not alone and you do have people cheering for you.

BW
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Old 23rd December 2017, 11:23 AM   #34
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Thanks for all the advice. I am reading it over and over to let it all sink in.

Just some background...he's been with his W for 12 years and married for 18 months. He did describe her once as "probably the love of my life" and as the affair went on he told me he loved us the same but in different ways (which is what you're all saying - it's different kettles of fish) and then that he loved me more but wanted to be with his children and keep his life.

A while ago an LSer said that the A might be helping him stay in his LTR. The A gives him the romantic love that he's not currently getting from his LTR and according to him has always ebbed and flowed (normal). I asked him if that was the case, did our A enable him to stay in his M? Firstly he said his M didn't have problems and I wasn't fixing anything.

Then, on reflection, he said the M clearly had issues and that I was a large contributing factor. Without me in his life he'd be more able to re-connect with his W. He said she'd been asking for sex but he'd refused because of his involvement with me. He came to the conclusion that although some of the issues were as a result of two young children and the responsibilities that come with that they were also caused by me being in his life.

I guess an A creates distance between the spouses. But as another poster said above, the love/happiness/escape he derived from our A could have also allowed him to maintain his M...didn't matter he wasn't getting the affection and attention from his W because he got it from me. I think that must be why he comes back time and time again.


A few months ago, I met someone (in the carpark of my building randomly) and I was "wowed" immediately. We swapped numbers and arranged to meet. My xMM also wanted to meet on the 'date night' and I explained I was going out with someone else. He reacted badly - it was all over because my focus was elsewhere so he should re-focus on his W and he was going to talk to her that instant about their issues. He'd unfairly taken everything away from his M for my benefit and it was high time he focussed on his M and making it better. I thought that was it. I was done and so was he. It didn't work with the other guy (beyond the physical, I wasn't impressed so ended it) and the old pattern resumed.

Even after he came close to exposure (in his mind) with the false pregnancy scare he came back. It was during this time, when we didn't know either way and we weren't speaking, that he suggested counselling and asked if we could treat each other better, that he was sorry he'd reacted the way he had (saying if I was pregnant I'd be taking his children from him, that I had his life in my hands, that we wouldn't be together and that he would demand 50% access and as a result he'd lose his current set-up i.e. family life). He said he'd reacted this way because he was so scared and the stress had actually caused him to be hospitalised. But all he wanted now was to deal with whatever happened as two people who loved each other and whatever the outcome to go for counselling to maintain our friendship. He said all of this when he didn't know what was happening i.e. if he'd have to come clean or not.

It was during this time he told his best-friend about me. This surprised me as it's a risk - more people knowing could be dangerous. He said he was desperate because I wouldn't talk to him (I asked him to leave me alone and I'd confirm that I was in fact NOT pregnant as soon as I knew) and needed to talk to someone about what was happening especially after he ended up in hospital (he messaged me to tell me he'd been discharged from hospital because of the stress this issue had caused him and I blocked him - I was so mad with him for trying to manipulate me like this, looking for sympathy).

I guess I've always known he's not going to leave (and realistically I don't think he's a prize worth having either. I would worry he'd do exactly the same to me). He isn't leaving because he likes his status quo too much and he is also not willing to start all over again (as he sees it). I also think unless something is inherently wrong with a M (and they wanted to leave pre-affair), men won't leave for all the reasons stated by Jenkins and Midnight in other posts. It seems to be almost a universal truth.

He isn't sure if he'll be able to re-kindle any sort of romantic love with his W as he thinks that might have gone now but that doesn't seem to bother him overly - he said he thinks it might now be irreversibly damaged but as long as they work together well for their children as co-parents he'll stay put. It's almost like the romantic side isn't a deal-breaker for him. Maybe that's normal too in LTRs. He said the objective now is maintaining the family unit if it works well enough and focussing on the children - not the relationship between him and his W.

This seems in contrast to lovely Mr Jenks who wants to re-connect and has (I think) with his W.

Thanks again for all the time spent reading and replying to my musings. I do know this is in my hands as he'll be back (he messages every day still, despite saying it's over and he has to move on and do the right thing...I think in his mind, as long as he's not sleeping with me he's doing the right thing - although as I said previously he's not ruling out sex either - but I am).
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Old 23rd December 2017, 11:25 AM   #35
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Hmm. OP. It doesn't sound like you will.leave the MM. Maybe your normal prefered state of mind is to be in the perpetual state that you are in?
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Old 23rd December 2017, 11:52 AM   #36
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It's not that I like this but I think maybe it's become normal and there's some comfort in that. I want to break free but the fact it's all down to me changing my state of mind seems like a massive mountain to climb. I don't know why because rationally I know I want and deserve more. I can't even understand it myself. Sometimes I feel strong and resolved and other times not.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 11:55 AM   #37
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OP, you seem like a sweet, lovely person so I mean this in the kindest manner-
You keep on quoting the MM and repeating what he says as if they were some extraordinary words of wisdom and not run of the mill affair speak.
You have written way more about his thoughts, feeling, marriage, history, plans etc than about your own.
It is so very obvious who the important person in this affair is, and it is not you. You are both focused on him and on his needs and wants. For both of you, you are an afterthought.
I find it sad that you spend so much time and energy listening and then thinking about what he says. His words mean so much you, but honestly, it seems to me like he says whatever suits his goal per that conversation. You attribute honesty to his words, which I don't think he deserves.
I would guess he can't remember half of those conversations you hold so dear.
You have to re-emerge, my dear. I can't see you anywhere in this mess of a relationship.
Have you watched 'The Affair'?
There is one line I remember, when a woman says to a guy she just met-
I don't know if you're a jerk behaving like a nice guy, or a nice guy behaving like a jerk.
I think you think you're MM is a nice guy who is, despite himself and of no fault of his own, being a jerk. I am 100% sure it's the opposite. He's a deliberate jerk who puts on a confused nice guy act.
What is your next step? What do you want for yourself?
Please notice, I asked what *you* want/need/plan
I noticed you tend to answer such questions by saying what the mm said.I really hope you will be able to shift the focus back to you!
I am sorry if I seemed harsh, I honestly care and wish you the best, I would say the exact same things to my best friend.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:01 PM   #38
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Serendipity, you are so very stuck. Have you talked with a counsellor. Please, please, please... find a good counsellor.

You are a lawyer, right? Take the emotion out of it, and think about this relationship from a logical point of view. What are you getting out of it? What is he getting out of it? And for goodness sakes, stop listening to the drivel that he is telling you... Why do you continue to believe his BS?

I can't even begin to tell you how much I abhore this man and the way that he manipulates you. Again, I hope you can enjoy the holiday with your daughter and stop perseveration on this unhealthy relationship. I want to shake you - dont miss this most wonderful time in your daughter's life and don't waste your youth on this terrible man!
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:05 PM   #39
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Imsosad - that's very true. All of what you say. I do hang on his every word and analyse all he says. He won't remember (but he does re-read messages and quote them to me when he's feeling sad / missing me). But I take the point - it's all about him. He didn't even remember what he'd bought his child for his last birthday...but I did. SO clearly.

Before the affair (we've been friends for about 6 years but peripheral before start of 2016 and loss of my H) I used to find his flirty behaviour a little creepy. No, a lot creepy and he was on a break from his now W at that time (so I could have started something with him) but after one drunken kiss I felt nothing just a little creeped out.

A little after that (18 months or so), we'd been at a friend's wedding and I had too much too drink, he offered to drive me home. He drove me to his father-in-laws house (who was on holiday) and tried to come onto me. I ended up getting a taxi home.

I told my friend and mother about this - both said "he's a creep and I'd never go near him again...it's all a load of bs. He has responsibilities and commitments and should honour those" (he had one kid at this point).

So I think he is predatory. But all I can see now is this man who I have developed these feelings for who I know when I'm out of this I'll feel disgusted I ever did.

It's very screwed up.

I thought I was emotionally healthy.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imsosad View Post
You keep on quoting the MM and repeating what he says as if they were some extraordinary words of wisdom. You have written way more about his thoughts, feeling, marriage, history, plans etc than about your own.

I find it sad that you spend so much time and energy listening and then thinking about what he says. You attribute honesty to his words, which I don't think he deserves.

I noticed you tend to answer such questions by saying what the mm said.I really hope you will be able to shift the focus back to you!

It is so very obvious who the important person in this affair is, and it is not you. You are both focused on him and on his needs and wants. For both of you, you are an afterthought.

You have to re-emerge, my dear. I can't see you anywhere in this mess of a relationship.
This, 100, 1000, 1,000,000%

You have lost yourself in this relationship, Serendipity. It has become all about him. What he thinks, and how he feels, and what he wants... What do you want - for you and your daughter? Go to counselling to find this out!
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:10 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Serendipity55 View Post
Imsosad - that's very true. All of what you say. I do hang on his every word and analyse all he says. He won't remember (but he does re-read messages and quote them to me when he's feeling sad / missing me). But I take the point - it's all about him. He didn't even remember what he'd bought his child for his last birthday...but I did. SO clearly.

Before the affair (we've been friends for about 6 years but peripheral before start of 2016 and loss of my H) I used to find his flirty behaviour a little creepy. No, a lot creepy and he was on a break from his now W at that time (so I could have started something with him) but after one drunken kiss I felt nothing just a little creeped out.

A little after that (18 months or so), we'd been at a friend's wedding and I had too much too drink, he offered to drive me home. He drove me to his father-in-laws house (who was on holiday) and tried to come onto me. I ended up getting a taxi home.

I told my friend and mother about this - both said "he's a creep and I'd never go near him again...it's all a load of bs. He has responsibilities and commitments and should honour those" (he had one kid at this point).

So I think he is predatory. But all I can see now is this man who I have developed these feelings for who I know when I'm out of this I'll feel disgusted I ever did.

It's very screwed up.

I thought I was emotionally healthy.
Darling girl, this is not an emotionally healthy relationship. And you are not an emotionally healthy woman.

That is creepy and he is a predator. If not you, it would be someone else.

How long are you going to be passive, and continue to allow him to manipulate and use you?

What would you tell your daughter to do in this situation... Think about it.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:30 PM   #42
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He TOLD you that he feels you're interfering with his marriage and he has no intention of leaving his wife.

You have NO business being with this man.

Go find someone single.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Serendipity55 View Post

Before the affair (we've been friends for about 6 years but peripheral before start of 2016 and loss of my H) I used to find his flirty behaviour a little creepy. No, a lot creepy and he was on a break from his now W at that time (so I could have started something with him) but after one drunken kiss I felt nothing just a little creeped out.

A little after that (18 months or so), we'd been at a friend's wedding and I had too much too drink, he offered to drive me home. He drove me to his father-in-laws house (who was on holiday) and tried to come onto me. I ended up getting a taxi home.

I told my friend and mother about this - both said "he's a creep and I'd never go near him again...it's all a load of bs. He has responsibilities and commitments and should honour those" (he had one kid at this point).

So I think he is predatory. When I'm out of this I'll feel disgusted I ever did (develop feeling for him).
Now, I am no counsellor, but let's do some cognitive behavioural therapy right now. You are a lawyer, you should be good at gathering facts and presenting an argument... So, write out exactly what you've shared here -

His flirty behavior, that first drunken kiss, the fact that he drove you to a secluded area to come on to you felt creepy... Before the emotion developed, your first impression and your best judgment was - this guy is creepy and predatory.

Your mother and your friend told you to stay away. In their concern for you, their best judgment was that he was no good for you, and you should stay away.

He is committed to his wife. Who cares if they love each other, if they have sex, if they plan to raise their children and grow old together... You can't listen to him because he is untrustworthy and you can't believe a word he says. The fact remains, he has chosen her. He shares his life, and his children, with her. Not you.

And, he is a terrible husband. There is certainly the fact that he is lying and cheating on his wife, exposing her (and potentially you) to sexually transmitted diseases. He is not a good father. He left his wife's bedside and his newborn child to have sex with another woman. And, he continues to take the time and energy that should be devoted to his children and spend it, chasing you...

And then there is your unhealthy relationship. He comes and he goes, as he likes. He creates drama (the untrue pregnancy, the hospital stay) and then expects you to console him. He says terrible things to you (that you are somehow you are responsible for the problems in his marriage). His behavior toward you is nothing short of emotionally abusive and yet, he feels you little breadcrumbs like "I love you more..." that you hold onto as some kind of declaration and hope - just enough that you will stick around for this twisted, manipulative, emotionally abusive relationship to continue...

Have I made my point. Make your own list and the next time he calls you or asks to meet you... Before you agree, read this list. And then, look at a picture of your daughter and ask yourself if this is what you want for your beautiful daughter, and her beautiful mother. Or, would you rather find someone to love you and your daughter, to be a family and have a happy and content family life.

If the answer is still, more of this unhealthy up and down, push and pull, where his needs are first ahead of you and your daughter having a happy, healthy family life... Well then, there is not much more to say...

I'm sorry, it's harsh. But, it's true. I really do hope you find your way out of this, it pains me to see such a wonderful woman caught up in such an unhappy and unhealthy situation.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 1:04 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by imsosad View Post
Have you watched 'The Affair'?
I have watched the affair and it is fascinating. What struck me most and changed the way I think about relationships...

Because the story is told from his, and then her point of view... It is quite striking how two people can quite literally have the same experience, and yet "experience" it very, very differently. And then, the stories that they spin and the way they remember the event, can be entirely different.

For example, she has a lovely memory of the two of them meeting in a crowded restaurant, then they come together again and again - almost as if it is "meant to be" until the inevitable happens... While, he remembers meeting her, thinking that she was hot, and that she came onto him and initiated sex on the beach.

More often than not, her memories are very emotional, very affectionate and loving... While his memories are often very sexual, not emotional, and he tends to paint himself as "the good guy who is trying to deal the best he can with a hurt and angry exwife, unhappy kids, and a demanding lover." In other words, he often sees himself as the "wounded party" and he does not accept responsibility for his actions as the cause of all this "drama..."

It's drama and it's very stereotypical in many ways... But, perhaps there is an element of truth in the story...
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Old 23rd December 2017, 1:51 PM   #45
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oMG you actually believe this BS? Have you actually read any other threads here? The BS this guy is putting in your head could be pulled out of a number of threads by OW here almost word for word.

You are very foolish to think this guy isn't having sex with his wife.

I'm honestly stunned that you seem to buy every word
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