Boy has it been awhile!!

[Babybird]

I just peaked back to see when the last time I posted was and it was a year and a half ago. Wow, how time flies!

 

Just a little update for those that remember me. I don't recognize a lot of names anymore but I've seen a few.

 

So my MM and I are still together. His divorce was final Friday. I figured after all of the things I read on this website that things would be a little more complicated when we were finally outside of my bedroom walls. They really aren't.

 

Rumors of our relationship pre-separation swirled around town but no one could back up their gossip.

 

The one thing that I'm going to let everyone hoping for their day to come is there are trust issues. On his half and mine. Not overwhelmingly so but every once in a while something comes up. An example is for the first time since we got together(in the publics eyes) a year and a half ago, I went out with the girls to the bar. He didn't like it but I went anyway. So at one in the morning when I arrived home, quite loopey I must admit, I apparently made a smart@ss comment to him. I have no recollection of what it was but he asked me if a came home alone. Of course I had but there was blatant mistrust there. Wow did that hurt my feelings. On the flip-side, he went out one time and I asked him if he had done anything with this girl in particular that I knew had feelings for him. He hadn't but those weird feelings were just there.

 

Other than that, which is a huge issue although very rare and I think we are going to have a discussion about that tonight, things are going extremely well. I think being alone in my bedroom talking for the first year helped us to develop a great friendship. He is what I have always wanted. That was another fear of mine, that when I finally had him, I wouldn't want him. Not at all true. I am so glad that he is in my life. Granted, it would've been nice if our relationship had started out in a normal way but I think overcoming the challenges you have when you are in an affair can also make you appreciate the relationship more. I know, sounds strange but its that way with me and him.

 

So to all those that are in an A right now, spilling the secrets of their soul on these pages, waiting for some hope: there is hope. Not every A will have a happy ending. In fact most of them won't. But there are some that do!

[jj33]

Congratulations. I wish you a lot of happiness.

[greengoddess]

Good for you!

 

I like stories like this. It means there is one less wife and ow being lied to. Um well hopefully.

[GreenEyedLady]

Babybird!

 

So glad to see you around! I'm glad that things worked out for you!

 

Here's to a glorious future!

 

GEL

[phoenixrising]

I'm so glad things are working out with you, BB. Just curious - how long were you together? Did you decide to minimize contact, or did you stay with him as he made his decisions?

 

The bottom line is that if a man truly wants to be with a woman, he will find a way to get there... I'm glad you are both in a relationship that makes you happy.

[The_411]

Mino, what is exactly right about all this? That they "love each other" and are together?

 

Why not actually think about the people hurt from their tryst?

 

Is it more important that two people are happy if they leave a trail of destruction to get there?

 

Of course there are trust issues. Why wouldn't there be? Gee you were in relationship borne of deceit.

 

And yes he probably has cheated you already.

 

While bitterness isn't attractive what about hurting others, what about not having a mind of your own, what about being selfish and devoid of compassion? How do those things fit on your own priority list.

[Mino]

Mino, what is exactly right about all this? That they "love each other" and are together?

 

Why not actually think about the people hurt from their tryst?

 

Is it more important that two people are happy if they leave a trail of destruction to get there?

 

Of course there are trust issues. Why wouldn't there be? Gee you were in relationship borne of deceit.

 

And yes he probably has cheated you already.

 

While bitterness isn't attractive what about hurting others, what about not having a mind of your own, what about being selfish and devoid of compassion? How do those things fit on your own priority list.

Hi 411.... First off, ow didnt cause marriage to breakdown.. M was already broken. imo a a marriage that is intact cannot be broken into. So there fore Ow did not cause the destruction. Trust... hmm, I trust my mm, and hate to dissappoint you, no cheating here... I do feel for w... feel sorry for her... I do feel she derserves happiness... Selfish no...in love , yes. Is happiness important... absolutely, everyone deserves happiness....

[GreenEyedLady]

Why not actually think about the people hurt from their tryst?

 

Is it more important that two people are happy if they leave a trail of destruction to get there?

 

Of course there are trust issues. Why wouldn't there be? Gee you were in relationship borne of deceit.

 

And yes he probably has cheated you already.

 

While bitterness isn't attractive what about hurting others, what about not having a mind of your own, what about being selfish and devoid of compassion? How do those things fit on your own priority list.

 

So it is better for someone to stay married to someone they don't love or respect so that everyone else is happy? Does that sound like a happy environment to be in, for anyone in the household?

 

Destruction, such a negative term. How about rebuilding? Both partners able to rebuild their life authentically with partners that want to be with them.

 

The thing is that I and others like me have a mind of our own and are compassionate. Just because we don't draw the same conclusion doesn't mean we are devoid of it.

 

I hope that you are never faced with a situation that forces you to think out of the box. Your answers are generic and cliche and causes one to wonder if you yourself have a mind of your own.

[bentnotbroken]

So it is better for someone to stay married to someone they don't love or respect so that everyone else is happy? Does that sound like a happy environment to be in, for anyone in the household?

 

 

No GEL, it isn't better for someone to stay in an unhappy marriage. But it is better for a mature adult to handle leaving with dignity and respect. For both spouses to come to the agreement with outside interference. It is right to dry to minimize the damage done to the others psyche by doing things in a respectful manner. Cheating spouses don't do that when they have been seeing someone else and that person is waiting int the wings. I can only speak from my experience, so if respect(not love)but respect for the family, you wouldn't want to expose your family to that kind of turmoil, no matter what. Be it for love, lust or whatever. I would go through hell fire and damnation to keep the people I love and respect from hurting. Mr. Messy wouldn't. He would only do what was necessary for him to feel good. I would have respected him, had he come to me and said, I want out. I think most,(not all)BS would be hurt, angry and may want to save the marriage, but they would heal so much better and faster if they had been treated with respect.

 

Destruction, such a negative term. How about rebuilding? Both partners able to rebuild their life authentically with partners that want to be with them.

 

It doesn't matter what term is applied to make the cheater and their partner feel better, it still has the same affect, To destroy someone else's security, peace of mind and home. That home wasn't dissolved by mutual consent of the married parties, it was destroyed by the A participants, in a lot of cases without the BS knowledge. Both partners maybe able to rebuild their lives, but it will never be authentic for BS, because the one thing that is a building block is trust, and the A partners have made the BS doubt their own ability to read people, i.e. trust. You can't build anything lasting without trust. So what if BS find a partner who truly wants to be with them, some will never be able to fully trust again. So the terminology is just that....terms.

 

The thing is that I and others like me have a mind of our own and are compassionate. Just because we don't draw the same conclusion doesn't mean we are devoid of it.

 

I hope that you are never faced with a situation that forces you to think out of the box. Your answers are generic and cliche and causes one to wonder if you yourself have a mind of your own.

 

 

The questions by 411 for you may be generic and cliche, but they are valid. I do know that some people truly regret their choices and try to live life better having learned from the decisions. But ( I know, cliche)that doesn't change the facts that some A leave major destruction, others minor, and some hidden(you know when you think everyone is adjusting well, yet they are pushing down the true emotions). I don't know if all other A partners are devoid of compassion or not(the one in my case probably is devoid)but the fact is their are a lot of hurt people involved.

[Mino]

So it is better for someone to stay married to someone they don't love or respect so that everyone else is happy? Does that sound like a happy environment to be in, for anyone in the household?

 

Destruction, such a negative term. How about rebuilding? Both partners able to rebuild their life authentically with partners that want to be with them.

 

The thing is that I and others like me have a mind of our own and are compassionate. Just because we don't draw the same conclusion doesn't mean we are devoid of it.

 

I hope that you are never faced with a situation that forces you to think out of the box. Your answers are generic and cliche and causes one to wonder if you yourself have a mind of your own.

Forget it Gel... its a waste of time. These betrayed sp feel like they own the other because they are married. They rather be miserable then to face fact. Sad... I feel for them... they are scared. Its about fear...They are fearful of the unknown, fear of change, fear of maybe never finding a love again in their life, fear of the financial security, i am sure many do not work outside the home, or do not have a job to live on their own. So, they rather be miserable, blaming blaming , blaming.... Its naive to think one"owns the other because of a wedding...till death do you part... but they feel they deserve this promise, even though CS, has no respect, no love left for M. They treat the S like a maid/ cook, servant...they treat their M like a joke... so Gel, they feel they are owed a lifetime... I would not settle for a loveless R. Maybe a job would be a start, helps build self esteem. So Gel, forget it, no use arguing with 'these people" They feel Happiness comes with the M cert, i dont think they understand it takes work also after the wedding.... poor souls:o

[greengoddess]

Forget it Gel... its a waste of time. These betrayed sp feel like they own the other because they are married. They rather be miserable then to face fact. Sad... I feel for them... they are scared. Its about fear...They are fearful of the unknown, fear of change, fear of maybe never finding a love again in their life, fear of the financial security, i am sure many do not work outside the home, or do not have a job to live on their own. So, they rather be miserable, blaming blaming , blaming.... Its naive to think one"owns the other because of a wedding...till death do you part... but they feel they deserve this promise, even though CS, has no respect, no love left for M. They treat the S like a maid/ cook, servant...they treat their M like a joke... so Gel, they feel they are owed a lifetime... I would not settle for a loveless R. Maybe a job would be a start, helps build self esteem. So Gel, forget it, no use arguing with 'these people" They feel Happiness comes with the M cert, i dont think they understand it takes work also after the wedding.... poor souls:o

 

What a horribly sad post. You have insulted all women with this post. Every single one. What a horrible attitude to have about a woman who chooses CHOOSES with her husband to give up her career to raise children rather than send them to a daycare to be raised by others.

 

I honestly feel sorry for you if you have such an attitude as this about married women who are raising children.

 

It is not the marriage deteriorating that hurts so bad. It is the daily lies told by the cheater and all the hidden dates, conversations etc about a womans very personal life that he shares with you. Someone the wife knows nothing about. If men would do the honorable and tell their wives they are not in love anymore before they have a piece on the side it would be so much easier.

 

How is living a daily life hiding in the shadows having self esteem?

[bentnotbroken]

Forget it Gel... its a waste of time. These betrayed sp feel like they own the other because they are married. They rather be miserable then to face fact. Sad... I feel for them... they are scared. Its about fear...They are fearful of the unknown, fear of change, fear of maybe never finding a love again in their life, fear of the financial security, i am sure many do not work outside the home, or do not have a job to live on their own. So, they rather be miserable, blaming blaming , blaming....

 

That is a huge generlization that isn't true. I never felt like I own anyone(and most of my married friends feel the same way. It's funny that some of the MM I know do feel like they own their wives, but that is another subject all together). You are damn right their is fear involved. For me it was the fear of having been exposed to some disease without my knowledge or consent. I was afraid for my children's security as well as their emotional and mental health. I was afraid because my life was changing without my consent or my planning for it. Two other people planned it for me without my consent or input. Most of us do work to help support our families, but as you well know society doesn't pay equally for the the same job between men and women. And others of us are in professions with traditionally low wages(nurses, teachers, etc.) so yes we depended on our spouses income to help with the finances. We built our lives on 2 incomes and weren't given the opportunity to set aside or plan for a change in that lifestyle. Why is that fair because our spouses decided to screw around with someone else? I should have had the opportunity to plan a different future. I planned for the event of one of our deaths, but not the death of our marriage.

 

And no I am not miserable. Mr. Messy's actions freed me to be who I really am, not someone trying to please and unpleasable person. Yes, I do blame him for introducing a psycho into my life and I blame her for coming into my home and tainting it and I blame myself for not seeing the signs of the kind of person he really was. Could have saved myself years of misery.

 

 

Its naive to think one"owns the other because of a wedding...till death do you part... but they feel they deserve this promise, even though CS, has no respect, no love left for M. They treat the S like a maid/ cook, servant...they treat their M like a joke...

 

Yes, it maybe naive to believe that an adult can behave as an adult should, but you are right, I expected that promise to be kept. And if he truly wanted out, why didn't he grow some balls and tell me, instead of screwing another man's wife(without his knowledge too). If you have the balls to "f" someone else, surely you have the balls to do it after you divorce, don't you think? You are right he treated me like all the things you described and you know what, I loved him enough to do those things. Still what is it you expect bs to feel?

 

 

 

so Gel, they feel they are owed a lifetime... I would not settle for a loveless R. Maybe a job would be a start, helps build self esteem. So Gel, forget it, no use arguing with 'these people" They feel Happiness comes with the M cert, i dont think they understand it takes work also after the wedding.... poor souls:o

 

 

Your assumption is one that bs are accused of having about other women all the time.....low self-esteem. I am sure that is the case for some W as well as OW but not all. You said you wouldn't settle for a loveless marriage, but you would settle for someone else's H, strange to me. My marriage wasn't loveless, I loved him. It was one sided but not loveless. But the funny part is even now, more than a year later he is still wanting to come home to that person he disrespected, why do you think that is? I am owed a lifetime, that was the promise he made to me and to our children when we agreed to bring them into the world(yeah, he divorced them too after they told him they no longer respected him). A marriage certificate is a piece of paper. NO special powers, no magic spell, nothing more than a tree hammered into usuable flatness. It does take work on both parts, but that doesn't happen when one partner is working with a 3rd party, not the wife.

 

And just for the record, my soul isn't poor and it is in better shape than it has ever been. The Lord has provided for me and showed me the way to forgive people who intentionally set out to hurt others. Thanks for the pity though:o

[OpenBook]

What a horribly sad post. You have insulted all women with this post. Every single one. What a horrible attitude to have about a woman who chooses CHOOSES with her husband to give up her career to raise children rather than send them to a daycare to be raised by others.

 

Maybe this would be better directed at the CS - y'know, the one who actually MADE all the promises and commitments to his W - who is deliberately insulting her (and worse) every single day by breaking those promises and commitments??

[The_411]

So it is better for someone to stay married to someone they don't love or respect so that everyone else is happy? Does that sound like a happy environment to be in, for anyone in the household?

 

Destruction, such a negative term. How about rebuilding? Both partners able to rebuild their life authentically with partners that want to be with them.

 

The thing is that I and others like me have a mind of our own and are compassionate. Just because we don't draw the same conclusion doesn't mean we are devoid of it.

 

I hope that you are never faced with a situation that forces you to think out of the box. Your answers are generic and cliche and causes one to wonder if you yourself have a mind of your own.

 

To answer your questions ....

 

No and no. See here's the crux of the matter I don't anyone in this thread on either side of the debate saying that people should stay in marriages that aren't working. The diffrence comes down to the way the marriage is ended.

 

So when you rebuild something don't you rebuild upon a solid foundation? Rebuilding by getting involved while you are married is building upon a faulty foundation using cheap materials in lieu of paying the cost of the materials that should be used. Like when construction companies cut corners using not up to standard materials. Sure the building gets built and nothing goes wrong for a while but eventually the building may collapse or have structural damage. Please tell you won't rebuild a building on a faulty foundation.

 

I use the term destruction because everyone seems to be glossing over the damage done to the betrayed spouse. While certainly people would be hurt by being dumped what so many wayward seem to ignore is that the betrayed spouse loses the ability to trust people, may have some PTSD as a result and may suffer other psychological consequences. Not to mention the effect on the children who witness the affair and or the effects of the affair.

 

This is where I suggest the lack of compassion because again I don't see where people acknowledge that behavior is quite damaging they just say oh I'm compassionate for someone being in a loveless marriage.

 

You know what I'm compassionate as they come for those who are in loveless marriages but my compassion ends as soon as they step outside the marriage because at that point they are no longer owning their responsibility to end the marriage and are in fact incurring damage to their spouses, children as well the other parties spouse, and children if they are married.

 

Sadly, we all know what happens when one makes assumptions. I've had to deal with all sorts of issues related to this topic so I'm not coming here as a bitter spouse but rather as concerned individual.

[Mino]

Your assumption is one that bs are accused of having about other women all the time.....low self-esteem. I am sure that is the case for some W as well as OW but not all. You said you wouldn't settle for a loveless marriage, but you would settle for someone else's H, strange to me. My marriage wasn't loveless, I loved him. It was one sided but not loveless. But the funny part is even now, more than a year later he is still wanting to come home to that person he disrespected, why do you think that is? I am owed a lifetime, that was the promise he made to me and to our children when we agreed to bring them into the world(yeah, he divorced them too after they told him they no longer respected him). A marriage certificate is a piece of paper. NO special powers, no magic spell, nothing more than a tree hammered into usuable flatness. It does take work on both parts, but that doesn't happen when one partner is working with a 3rd party, not the wife.

 

And just for the record, my soul isn't poor and it is in better shape than it has ever been. The Lord has provided for me and showed me the way to forgive people who intentionally set out to hurt others. Thanks for the pity though:o

Bent, I did not mean to insult women. Not at all. In my eyes, you are a very strong woman. My point was that many woman stay in broken M out of fear, use guilt to make cs stay. Not always out of love but out of fear. Wherever that fear comes from... I think its normal.. to have fear, but there comes a time where you do need to face this fear and deal with it. Bent, how can you say you are owed a lifetime? People do change... We dont always chagne together... Sometimes there is a big age difference that will create this change...many things can ichange a r What I feel today and what I believe may not be what I feel and believe 10, 20 years from now.It is wonderful for you that your H still loves you But in many cases that is not so, do I believe that love fades totally away no, but it may not be the love that one has for a S, may have changes to a different type of love. Because maybe the M love was not nutured until it was to late. I am surely not throwing all under one hat. If this was picked up this way I do apologize....But it is a fact for some....

[Mino]

What a horribly sad post. You have insulted all women with this post. Every single one. What a horrible attitude to have about a woman who chooses CHOOSES with her husband to give up her career to raise children rather than send them to a daycare to be raised by others.

 

I honestly feel sorry for you if you have such an attitude as this about married women who are raising children.

 

It is not the marriage deteriorating that hurts so bad. It is the daily lies told by the cheater and all the hidden dates, conversations etc about a womans very personal life that he shares with you. Someone the wife knows nothing about. If men would do the honorable and tell their wives they are not in love anymore before they have a piece on the side it would be so much easier.

 

How is living a daily life hiding in the shadows having self esteem?

It is a sad post... Your right. Its sad when one stays out of fear, I agree. I repect moms who want to stay home at raise thier children... Until kindergarten, Its important for moms to be home the first few years.... My point is though that some BS do know, uderstand also what is going on. Daily life in the shadows.... not at all, no shadow here...open for all to see...

[Cliche]

Hi, Babybird. I'm glad to hear things are going well. My MM left his M as well, and is currently divorcing. I, too, am amazed at how "easy" the transition to our R has been.

 

I wish you and your partner all the best!

[bentnotbroken]

Bent, I did not mean to insult women. Not at all. In my eyes, you are a very strong woman. My point was that many woman stay in broken M out of fear, use guilt to make cs stay. Not always out of love but out of fear. Wherever that fear comes from... I think its normal.. to have fear, but there comes a time where you do need to face this fear and deal with it. Bent, how can you say you are owed a lifetime? People do change... We dont always chagne together... Sometimes there is a big age difference that will create this change...many things can ichange a r What I feel today and what I believe may not be what I feel and believe 10, 20 years from now.It is wonderful for you that your H still loves you But in many cases that is not so, do I believe that love fades totally away no, but it may not be the love that one has for a S, may have changes to a different type of love. Because maybe the M love was not nutured until it was to late. I am surely not throwing all under one hat. If this was picked up this way I do apologize....But it is a fact for some....

 

 

 

Mino, I believe I was owed a lifetime because he and I stood before God and said, in that we would. That covenant with God is important to me. We said in God times and bad, in sickness and health. I don't let my feelings rule me(I thought he didn't either)To me, real love isn't always passion and fireworks. It is the everyday drudgery of life and circumstance and being there for one another when neither one of us is nice enough to be around. And Mr. Messy didn't get that(he says he does now)but I can't trust that someone who I was closest to would willingly jeopardize my life and his family. So we aren't together. I realize the world doesn't view things the way that I and other Christians do, but it doesn't make the way we live or lives any less valid.

[GreenEyedLady]

I use the term destruction because everyone seems to be glossing over the damage done to the betrayed spouse. While certainly people would be hurt by being dumped what so many wayward seem to ignore is that the betrayed spouse loses the ability to trust people, may have some PTSD as a result and may suffer other psychological consequences. Not to mention the effect on the children who witness the affair and or the effects of the affair.

 

This is where I suggest the lack of compassion because again I don't see where people acknowledge that behavior is quite damaging they just say oh I'm compassionate for someone being in a loveless marriage.

 

You haven't been here long enough to say that everyone glosses over the damage. I myself have answered to that before but I'm not going to dwell on it and say it in every single post. This is the OW forum, after all. it's here for a reason. And it's not here for the BS to come and see OW wallowing all the time.

 

In addition, when a poster attacks another with pious, self-righteous and judgmental language I'm one of the first to respond. Be rational and respectful and it'll be reciprocated. Bash first and you'll (meant as a group, not to you in paticular) will get bashed back.

 

GEL

[pelicanpreacher]

Maybe this would be better directed at the CS - y'know, the one who actually MADE all the promises and commitments to his W - who is deliberately insulting her (and worse) every single day by breaking those promises and commitments??

 

The CS and AF are acting in tandem and should therefore be considered a unit! When a BS speaks to CS they are actually speaking to both CS and AF for the two together remain in constant communication in their collaboration to gaslight and undermine the BS! I don't understand why this concept is so hard to get.

[NoIDidn't]

I just peaked back to see when the last time I posted was and it was a year and a half ago. Wow, how time flies!

 

Just a little update for those that remember me. I don't recognize a lot of names anymore but I've seen a few.

 

So my MM and I are still together. His divorce was final Friday. I figured after all of the things I read on this website that things would be a little more complicated when we were finally outside of my bedroom walls. They really aren't.

 

Rumors of our relationship pre-separation swirled around town but no one could back up their gossip.

 

The one thing that I'm going to let everyone hoping for their day to come is there are trust issues. On his half and mine. Not overwhelmingly so but every once in a while something comes up. An example is for the first time since we got together(in the publics eyes) a year and a half ago, I went out with the girls to the bar. He didn't like it but I went anyway. So at one in the morning when I arrived home, quite loopey I must admit, I apparently made a smart@ss comment to him. I have no recollection of what it was but he asked me if a came home alone. Of course I had but there was blatant mistrust there. Wow did that hurt my feelings. On the flip-side, he went out one time and I asked him if he had done anything with this girl in particular that I knew had feelings for him. He hadn't but those weird feelings were just there.

 

Other than that, which is a huge issue although very rare and I think we are going to have a discussion about that tonight, things are going extremely well. I think being alone in my bedroom talking for the first year helped us to develop a great friendship. He is what I have always wanted. That was another fear of mine, that when I finally had him, I wouldn't want him. Not at all true. I am so glad that he is in my life. Granted, it would've been nice if our relationship had started out in a normal way but I think overcoming the challenges you have when you are in an affair can also make you appreciate the relationship more. I know, sounds strange but its that way with me and him.

 

So to all those that are in an A right now, spilling the secrets of their soul on these pages, waiting for some hope: there is hope. Not every A will have a happy ending. In fact most of them won't. But there are some that do!

 

 

Hey, BB! Thanks for coming back and giving an update.

 

I thought rumors were lies. Your pre-separation relationship with him is a fact, right. The fact that you two are together now is all the proof that most need to prove you were together before then. Have you two decided how to handle nosey, persistent people? Will you tell the truth of how long you've actually been together?

 

Trust is an issue in most relationships. Its broken in more ways than just infidelity. So both of your feelings are somewhat normal. Anyone that's been burnt in a previous relationship is likely to be distrustful even with a partner they've been with for a while (to a degree). I wouldn't worry about that too much.

 

Hopefully all of the shadows of the A are over. No more less than public meetings, an out in the open R, I hope. Do you guys plan to marry one day? Not necessarily soon as he did JUST get D'd. But have you thought about it?