REAL LOVE Affair or Male Postnatal Depression? (Baby loss)

[Rainbows]

Hi,

I feel its going to be really difficult to gain perspective on this without giving our life story - as I believe this affair has occurred due to a breakdown...

 

Our Background:

My husband and I have been together 16 years (married for 12 years)

He is my first boyfriend.

I was his first girlfriend.

 

We have been together ever since - very close/much in love.

(My husbands reputation was that of a loyal, family man whom 'adored' me.

We never spoke badly of one another, never got fed up of one anothers company etc - im saying this to justify how shocking this affair really is)

 

His Background:

He had a difficult childhood; his mother walked out of their family home when he was 4yrs old and this effected him greatly. She has been married/divorced 3 times.

 

Our Problems:

The only problem we ever had was in regards to his family; he had been torn between divorced parents as a child and subsequently this re-occurred when he met me and they pressured/guilted him to spend more time with them.

His family ruined our Wedding day and we decided that was enough and he estranged them. (12yrs ago)

The bullying that I endured from his family caused me to suffer Depression.

 

7yrs ago we decided to start a family, but we struggled, lots of tests/treatments - sex obviously becomes somewhat a chore..

We had IVF, I became seriously ill throughout pregnancy, it was an emotional rollercoaster, our baby was seriously ill and at 7 months we said goodbye to her and she was stillborn.

We brought her home before her funeral.

My husband was amazing.

We attended 3yrs of bereavement counseling - which ended recently as my husband said he felt ok.

But we both stated our daughters death brought us even closer and we celebrate her life.

 

3 months later more IVF, ill throughout pregnancy and anxious, at the birth our babies heart began to stop and I was put to sleep to have an emergency CSection - my husband thought we were both going to die.

But he was amazing and took over caring for our daughter whilst I recovered.

We had our little family and we couldnt have been happier.

We however have no support network.

I never felt like we needed date nights etc as we had tried for so long to have this dream of a family that we just enjoyed every second together.

 

We started trying for another baby naturally after 6 months. It didn't happen and sex again became mundane/tiresome.

I asked and my husband never said this was a problem, as he understood.

When our daughter was 1 we went for more IVF.

Again, ill throughout pregnancy. Im sure I took motherhood out on him/lack of appreciation etc.

 

When we found out we were having a baby boy he reacted strangely and couldnt bond with him - said it was to do with his childhood.

During this time we had to move house to accommodate our growing family. We had found our absolute DREAM home, but we went through a house sale from hell, were nearly left homeless and had to move house into a 1 bedroom flat just 5 days before my due date.

Unbelievably, the birth resulted in another emergency CSection, with my husband witness to my organs being slapped in front of him, he said it was incredibly traumatic and again said he was so terrified I was going to die.

I was told that I could not risk having anymore children which effected me.

 

So. The Picture:

1 Bedroom Flat - All our belongings in storage.

Newborn baby - whom had terrible colic and cried for what felt like 24/7.

A 1 and a half year old.

Physical recovery of traumatic CSection - not able to get out of the flat much.

No support network.

Adapting to being a mother of two young children on my own.

And to top it off my husband was not bonding with our baby boy.

I tried to help this as much as I could and tried to find support networks for him (PND).

 

He admitted something was off in his feelings toward our son, he would leave him crying or pass him to me as soon as he'd start.

It made me feel quite alone too.

This was meant to be our dreams come true.

My husband was very excited about our new home however and I do have many happy memories of our 4 months in this flat.

Obviously again there was no sex happening as the recovery time for a normal CSection is 2 months.

As if we didnt have enough huge life events going on...my husband started a new job - in October.

 

The build up to the Affair:

I found my husband looking at porn, in November.

He became very emotional and said he had needs - which shocked me why he couldnt just tell me this.

He burst into tears and said he was so scared of loosing me, that if he ever did he would kill himself.

He became very attentive after this and despite me saying I would take a while to be intimate again - we ended up being intimate straight away as he had been so nice and loving to me!

This was the start of November, so he had been in his new job (in training) 4 weeks.

 

Literally the day we moved into our dream home which he had been so excited about - I Immediately I saw a change in my husband.

He still wasnt bonding with our baby boy and he said he was depressed.

I knew it was something more.

I even asked if he was having an affair.

When I asked how I could help him he said support him and dont add to his struggles. Dont 'nag' at him.

 

His phone use was increasingly suspicious as was his pulling away from me, snapping at me, moody, there were no more hugs for me...and I really got upset and confused.

Before Christmas I took him to see our bereavement counsellor convinced he had male PND - but I also said I think hes having an affair, he said he "didnt have time for an affair".

 

Tried to leave me:

One evening our baby hurt himself and was crying, my husband didnt even look around to see if he was ok, I slammed the door and cried, we didnt speak that evening and the next day he completely ignored my mounting texts.

That evening he text that he wasnt coming home, that we had grown apart, we werent good for each other anymore, too much grief and trauma, that his heart was broken...he said "Tell the kids I love them" - so I thought he was going to kill himself and I was absolutely frantic.

I managed to get him to come home and give 'me' a chance...

 

I spent every second from then on doting on him.

But something was still off with him.

He started doing overtime on a Saturday at work - which I didnt understand if he was depressed why spend more time at work.

I cried my eyes out, but he said he couldn't get out of doing it.

 

Discovering the Affair:

He was taking his phone everywhere - including at 3am to make our babies bottle!

So 2 weeks after when he tried to leave me, when he fell back to sleep I went through it.

"Night Love You Babe" - There she was.

It felt like "Finally" "I KNEW IT"

I was shocked at how unattractive she was.

There were hundreds of messages - dating back from December just as we had moved into this house = Id spotted it instantly.

It was obvious from the start of the messages something had started just a couple of weeks prior.

So I date the affair as starting mid November - around the time I discovered the Porn, just 6 WEEKS after starting this new job!

So the affair had been going on for just 8 WEEKS.

 

The OW:

She is 5 years older than me/and older than my husband.

Unattractive and overweight.

NOT my husbands style at all - he is trendy, she is frumpy - she looks more like his mother.

She was in a long term relationship/engaged, has an 11 year old child from a previous marriage.

 

I saw the naked photos she'd sent him.

I saw the videos of him masturbating for her in our bathroom - whilst me and his children were just downstairs.

I saw him declaring his undying love for her how, he'd never felt this way about anyone before (he's only been in a relationship with me so that hurt)

How she was so good at 'IT'

How they joked about doing whatever sexual act it was they were doing in the 'FAMILY' car (my husband since tells me it wasnt 'our' car)

I saw a message from him which said: "And we havent even made love yet imagine that! I cant wait to cuddle up to you"

 

I saw a message regarding the time I had been trying to initiate intimacy between my husband and I again - and she said:

"Oh Just **** her to shut her up!"

Which I think says everything about her character...if she loves my husband why would she want him to sleep with me, wife or not?

 

He was sending her photos of our 2yr old daughter and...our stillborn daughter, which is so utterly disrespectful and unbelievable that he cant see how WRONG that is.

"You and me together forever"

He sounded like a teenager, he sounded desperate - it didnt sound like him talking AT ALL, where had all this emotion come from?!

He said she had awakened something in him that he had never felt.

 

Initially she was asking him if it was real love or infatuation and if he was upset because he couldnt satisfy her yet?

Sadly I also saw on Christmas day - instead of enjoying the day playing with his two babies, he was texting her saying he would rather be with her.

I never saw any actual 'plans' laid out re the future/ie to leave their partners.

 

So. 4am. I woke him up and simply said "I know you are having an affair but please - for that little girl sleeping in that room there, please dont break our family"

I was very calm but I was shaking.

I am incredibly loyal and everyones impression is that I would NOT stand for anything like an affair.

He just said "Its not that easy, I have feelings" - there were no tears, no begging for me...

He was willing to throw away 16 years for an 8 week affair at lunchtimes?

Our family that we had been through so much to have?

He had everything he wanted finally and he wanted to throw it all away for this, I couldnt believe it? I NEVER will believe it?

 

I declared how much I had been through for our family and I found at one point him defending the OW - saying she had been through a lot (cancer scare/rape)

I couldnt believe it.

He went downstairs and the first thing he did was try to contact the OW...

He said she had a right to know.

He wanted his phone back from me and said he'd smash the house to pieces if I didnt give it him.

I calmly told him not to leave, had to be calm as our daughter was stood next to us.

 

He was doing exactly what his mother had done to him and what he had said he would never ever do.

He left only with what he was wearing and said he would be back.

He said he just needed to think.

I was a zombie, I couldnt care for the children, I couldnt eat, Ive lost nearly 4 stone in weight.

But babies NEED looking after so I didnt have a choice, my emotions couldnt be let out and so I went into denial/shock.

I saw he had driven to the city she lived, he denied there was any connection.

I begged him to come home.

 

He messaged the next day saying he'd been drinking, he'd even been reading the bible (yet he's an atheist)

But he cant come back, he'd be living a lie, he cant change his feelings. That it was nothing to do with another woman or thrills, that he will always love me but not like that anymore...

I told my parents and he then went crazy at me for telling people. Saying he had taken himself away to be private and think and that he was 'still trying' and now he cant live with it?

Which totally confused me as his messaged made it clear he had left me!

He then asked me to arrange a counsellor.

The counselling session was basically going over our life and not the affair, he spoke about how much he hated his family, they were dead to him and he'd never speak to them again.

The counsellor asked what was it about this woman that attracted you to her and he said 'she seemed to really care about me' - but he refused to say anything else as he didnt want to hurt me.

 

He spent 2 months living in hotels - and didnt see our children once.

This is the shocking aspect.

This is why I figured this was a mental breakdown, from everything we had been through it just came to a head and there was someone there to take advantage of him needing an escape.

Just a week later he was back in touch...with his family!

Everything about him had changed 360 - first and foremost his morals and prioraties in life.

After 2 months of running away to hotels with the one outfit, he rented himself a flat where they work and she lives, which may have made sense as he gave me the car back.

 

I saw that he had bought sex toys and (inexpensive) gifts for her. (And we still use the joint account.)

Bills are still in his name.

Nothing is really changing.

I threatened Divorce - he said that seemed very 'final' and the second time I raised it he said he didnt know and 'Just do what you feel is best'

 

Present Day:

We are 7 months on.

He will NOT tell me if he is still having the 'affair' - it is "none of my business"?!

He has always only ever said "We are separated - AT THE MOMENT"

As I was trying to save the family I suggested we spend 'family days together once a week, as I do not deserve to go through all what I did to have our babies and for him to have an affair, leave us and expect to take my children from my arms, as I am more than willing to work on our marriage.

 

He agreed.

In these 7 months he has seen them 16 times. Going 5 weeks without seeing us sometimes. Standing us up 14 times (His excuses are simply terrible) or arriving late, and not accepting my constant invitation to spend time with us.

He will cut me off completely leaving me totally confused, upset and frantic.

Each time he says he has to ignore me because hes overwhelmed.

 

He stated just recently that I was suicidal and so he wouldnt dare push for court custody.

He didnt attend his sons first birthday.

 

I am 99% sure he is still seeing this woman.

She was definitely still with her fiance in April but by May I 'think' they split up.

My husband still works with her.

 

The glimmers of hope:

He stated that our family days were 'chances' and 'him trying'.

He states that if he didnt enjoy being around me, he would go through court and see the children on his own.

He'd say I am here lets just see what happens. That he didnt want pressure or expectation.

That he didnt want to give me false hope.

He agreed to go back to see the counsellor on his own.

 

He has spoke about how can he be expected to integrate back into my family/friends after this.

And he has repeatedly said - and this is the most important part I think because it is what he feels strongly about - that I will never forgive him for this, I will use it against him.

(I got the first glimmer of emotion from him recently as he was saying this.)

These brief moments assure me that I am still right - that this was a breakdown, that he is simply turning to the easy route.

 

But his family being back in his life will NOT work in my favour.

Still being around the OW will not work in my favour.

And he has cut off EVERYONE whom knew us as a couple.

No one can believe this.

 

Advice?:

I know reading the above it looks like Im a fool. But knowing a person on such a deep level is more than explanation can gather, and seeing them SUDDENLY change 360, is very difficult to understand..

I have felt empathy for him in that im so sure this is a breakdown that is being ENABLED by those around him.

I have read countless articles advising you shouldnt beg, you should appear confident, happy etc...but im such an honest person I hate games, and more importantly - I am TERRIFIED that this would only serve to help him choose the easy option which is the OW.

He has even said my reaction has shocked him completely and he wished Id have reacted like a normal wife and kicked him out so it would have been 'easier for him' to cut us off!

Even though I know I am making it incredibly easy for him to have his cake and eat it, I feel by keeping this family together for the times that we are - it could wear the OW down, jealousy etc...and most importantly my children enjoy the time all together.

 

But I want my husband back. I never fell out of love with him.

Is it possible?

Should I go to see the OW in the hope that any guilt could grow from seeing the family shes helped to destroy face to face?

Is it likely REAL LOVE that they have? Id find it hard to believe that something so sexual after just a few weeks could mean it will be as strong as our 16 year relationship was?

All I read is how affair stats dont last - but is this sounding like the 1% that do!?

Edited September 4, 2019 by Rainbows

[Els]

I'm going to start with the obvious - what a total and complete dickhead. There is no excuse for what he's doing.

 

 

My next thought is that, while it certainly isn't an excuse, his behavior sounds like that of a man trying to escape from his own life. It's what I see myself doing in the future if I ever got railroaded into having kids.

 

 

 

You use the terms "the family that WE desired" a lot... but has he really expressed a desire to try for children so many times in such quick succession? IVF #1, then IVF #2 3 months after the stillbirth, an extremely traumatic birth, then IVF #3 1 year after the last birth. Which one of you drove these decisions? The woman certainly would have to be the primary decider (because you'd have to be a total dick to pressure your wife to undergo IVF), but has he truly shared your goals or was he just going along with them? Was he a willing party to the decision to convert all couple time to family time for the foreseeable future?

 

 

I'm sorry, I really don't know what advice to give. It sounds to me like he's hell bent on escaping this life, and there's no point in trying to stop him.

[Rainbows]

Escapism is like a form of mid life isnt it? He is 40 this year.

 

I did think it would appear like that scenario with seeing us have 3 babies in 4 years, but yeah he was devastated when we couldnt have children, we both found it difficult to be around couples with families etc, it was what we both very much wanted. And he was so happy.

 

I mean when you are so consciously trying for children both naturally and then via IVF, its a joint decision thats spoken about prior and certainly at any point in an IVF process he could have shouted up and said otherwise.

(The reason we had both our living children so quickly in succession is due to the pregnancy success rates in the first year, I was personally scared we wouldnt be able to have a sibling unless we tried and he never expressed any problem. We also pay for IVF storage per year)

 

We didnt really have a choice in couple time - but it was never raised that he missed it or needed it moreso than us being together with our baby girl.

I would always try and encourage him to do something fun and he would just want to sit and play his XBox...he'd say he was too old for going out, he wasnt interested etc...

 

He is smitten with our daughter - but how can he voluntarily leave so easily, how can he choose not to see her for 5 weeks etc.

His bond with our son is still not right - but how can it be after being away so much etc.

 

He said in our one counselling session that he does loves me, that I was an amazing wife, that we had a great life, but he has felt unhappy during the last year - which would have been just as our daughter turned one.

Even so - I dont believe that is a long enough period to give up on 16years...when he has NEVER presented any problems to me, I never detected them, I have the photos, the videos, the memories, we were so happy, its just a massive shock...the only difference was detected when he found out our baby was going to be a boy.

 

He also says - that if we hadnt gone through what we went through, and if we'd had a support network - we wouldnt be in this situation.

(Albeit an affair was not a way to solve anything)

Edited September 4, 2019 by Rainbows

[pepperbird]

op,

there is a lot going on in your situation, and i really believe your husband could benefit from some individual counseling, not just due to the loss of your child ( I am so sorry you both went through that) but because his childhood was less than stellar. Emotional crises can bring up all kinds of issues, and it sounds like you have both been through the wringer.

 

I'm not trying to excuse his behvaior- I have been in your shoes for a different reason. My husband also had a very brief affair while he was coping with mental illness ( combat PTSD) , and his therapist felt it was a form of escapism, not from his life so much as from himself. The thing for him ( and likely your husband too) is that you can't run from yourself. All you do is wind up exhausted and even more unhappy.

[Rainbows]

Elswyth; Im glad you raised this point though as it got me thinking - I did actually ask him if it was the pressure of having two young children etc but he said no.

 

Pepperbird; I do too, this is why I have tried to be supportive and not just concentrate on my feelings about the affair...but he wont go back to the counsellor

My family have also reached out to him to offer support - he's probably forgotten he's done anything wrong the amount of support he was offered afterward.

 

My husband says he suffered from guilt since his childhood...so to have an affair, run away from his children (and me; as he left me alone to care for them) I honestly dont know how he's sleeping at night?

He is now on double dose anti-depressants, put on over a stone in weight since he left and he's definitely drinking again...

 

Like I say he at the very most sees our children and I once a week - and he is on his phone constantly in those few hours and mostly moody.

 

I have asked him and he said he was mentally 'ok' with the situation at the moment, so he doesnt feel like trying to make our marriage work.

I tried to explain that it wasnt just about him, that we have children to think about and that I am willing to work on our marriage.

He seems very selfish at the moment.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Rainbows

[mark clemson]

There is a lot here, Rainbows, and I want to say I feel a lot of sympathy for you for the loss of your child, for your husband doing this to you, and for what must be a very difficult current situation. Will try to address some specific points. This is all just my personal opinion of course, but hope it is somewhat helpful to you:

 

 

 

• It's completely awful how he's treating you and your kids, esp. at such a young age.
  

 

• I think you're absolutely right the affair is ongoing at the moment.
  

 

• I think he bonded with this woman unfortunately and so it doesn't matter that she's unattractive, etc.
  

 

• I think you're right that the root of all this is his family of origin (FOO) issues, esp. with his mother; I think he's re-enacting trauma he felt and a behavior pattern he unfortunately learned as a child. Not a coincidence that she resembles his mother I think and that he can't easily bond with your son.
  

 

• I suspect their "love" is unlikely to last more than a few years at most as the feelings subside eventually and he will look around and see what it is he really has. I could be wrong.
  

 

• Unfortunately, I think this may not matter as much for you; I think he may be likely to fully detach as that is the pattern he learned.
  

 

• He is definitely being selfish; he "learned" I think, to be selfish, at a young age from his FOO (yes the two of you didn't have it easy, but that is not a reason to not see your own children for extended periods of time when you could be).
  

 

I think right now you are "Plan B" - the soft landing in case his affair doesn't work out. Given the amount of time he is spending away from home, I think she, unfortunately, is "Plan A". That might change, but right now it seems to be the case.

 

I think the chance at salvaging this, IF that's what you really wish to do, is for him to become self-aware enough about his own behavior to recognize that he's repeating a dysfunctional pattern he learned through FOO and to realize that he's significantly harming you and your children. To me, getting him to realize that sounds like a job for a psychologist, and they don't tend to work quickly, unfortunately IMO.

 

I think you should consider if you really wish to continue being a martyr to this man and this situation. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you may have some issues of your own. You seem to have an idealized view of "family" that you are striving for. But somehow, consciously or unconsciously, you selected and stuck with the absolutely wrong person for this.

 

That is not at all to say you deserve what he did - absolutely not! What I am saying is the yellow flags have been there all along and yet you stuck with this guy. So, whatever happens going forward, you may wish to explore (possibly with IC) why you kept him in your life and why you are so desperate to keep him in your life now, despite what he has done. (For the moment though you need to focus on your current situation.)

 

I think the best advice I can give you, unfortunately, is to plan for the worst. He may not come back to you. IF he chooses to, I would then suggest you think about WHY you need him so desperately that you will tolerate this from him. If he were to come back after all this, would you two actually ever be good for each other again? There is such a thing as reconciliation from cheating, but I'm not sure you as a couple are great candidates for that (not that I'm a professional who could tell). It's not impossible - ultimately a relationship is a mutual choice to be together. But I suspect that unfortunately you both would need a lot of IC and MC to get you to a place where getting back together even makes sense.

[pepperbird]

op,

I'm not tying to diagnose your WH, but it does sound like mental health issues may be at play here.

 

Something I learned in a support group that I have to remind myself of sometimes is the selfishness that goes along with it. That was almost a universal experience among the spouses in the group. I don't know why it's like that...could be that a person coping with a mental illness has to use all their mental energy just to stay afloat.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that, as a mom, you have to look after your own mental health first. After all, you won't be at your best if you are struggling yourself. What that looks like will depend on you.

 

What do you need right now? Can he provide that? If not, how else will you get it?

[Amethyst68]

OP it sounds like you are performing cartwheels trying to find excuses for your husband's behavior. Do I think the affair is ongoing? Probably but st this point you need to address his actions. It's time to protect yourself and your children.

 

IMO you need to put the 180 in place, NOT to get him back but to get strong yourself! You're separated, it's been 7 months and by what you write that particular situation is not going to change so need to deal. See a lawyer and get your finances and child support sorted along with visitation. When it's time for your WH to get the children make sure he takes them and remove yourself from the picture.

 

You cannot 'nice' him back or make him change, the only person who can do that is him. Tune to prioritise your children and yourself!

[Veronica73]

OMG, I’m so sorry you are going through this. And I’m sorry you lost your daughter at 7 months. It’s all absolutely awful, and he is being HORRIBLE. I think someday he is going to realize this and realize he messed up the best things he had going for him. And he will regret it. I don’t understand it either...this complete 180 in his personality. I agree that it probably has something to do with him being abandoned by his mother at such a young age (not that I’m a psychologist or anything, but that is a particularly vulnerable age). It does seem like he’s having some sort of mental health issue or breakdown or something. But it’s been going on for what...7 months? Even if he came back...how are you ever going to be able to trust him again? I think he needs some intense individual therapy. There is something wrong with him. I highly suspect he is still seeing this woman.

 

I have never been in a similar situation, but personally, and take this with a grain of salt, I think you should file for divorce and move on. Lean on your family for support. Someday he will realize how badly he screwed up. And might want to come back. If that happens, he needs to do some intensive therapy and move heaven and earth to get you back.

 

Also, just ignoring your child when he is hurt?! Perfect strangers would show more concern than that.

[Veronica73]

EDIT: And no, again not an expert, I doubt that this affair is going to last long term. Your husband obviously has some serious issues. He needs to do a lot of work on himself.

 

Again, talking out of my ass... but his mom abandoning him left a hole inside of him, and something about having a son reactivated that trauma, and now he is trying to fill that hole with this woman. I don’t think you can fix this. He has to.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Veronica73

[Mr. Lucky]

I managed to get him to come home and give 'me' a chance...

 

I spent every second from then on doting on him.

 

Unfortunately, this kind of codependent behavior simply encourages someone like him to act out further. Don't know if he really has "mental issues", but he is self-centered to the extreme.

 

All I read is how affair stats dont last - but is this sounding like the 1% that do!?

 

Just because the affair doesn't last, doesn't mean the cheating spouse returns to the fold. Often they move on to the next relationship, perhaps equally fleeting.

 

Rainbows, he's never going to be husband material - and may never be father material. I'm sorry things have turned out this way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Veronica73]

He’s abandoned you. He’s abandoned his children. I know you love him dearly...but...he doesn’t deserve you. I think you should leave him and move on. Maybe he’ll realize his mistake and do some serious work on himself...and make amends and do whatever it takes to get you back. But you’ve waited quite awhile. And he is being horrible. You’ve been much kinder and more understanding and patient than most anybody would be. Enough is enough.

[usa1ah]

Get a family lawyer and explain what has been going on. Ask them for advice on how to protect yourself if your husband attempts to take your kids from you.

 

Follow their advice.

[Rainbows]

Mark;

Thanks for this. I do hope the affair doesnt last - if purely from a karma point of view!...

My husband doesnt like confrontation, hence he runs, ignores, hides.

 

Lets face it he 'now' has the support of a tonne of Divorcees around him - the OW, his Mother, his Father, his Brother etc...

These 'enablers' are why I fear he will not become self-aware... he is being enabled, he even said to me "My family are on my side"? Side?

 

As we went through 3yrs of bereavement counselling, we explored his childhood and he knew he had to be the one to 'break the cycle' to be the better parent and he was SO eager to, he was passionate about it...he'd cry about it, swearing he'd never do it to his children...

I can only 'try' to explain, this man was amazing and our morals were the same.

 

I agree I do have an 'ideal' view of family - family was what we had strived so hard for and especially when you go through infertility for years, what you 'cant have' becomes even more idealistic and your 'dream'.

My view of marriage is also quite strong. Probably because my parents have been together since they were 14yrs old - my husband and I come from opposite backgrounds!

But more importantly, I dont believe someone should give up on a marriage like this - there should be a chance, effort etc to save it, grass is greener where you water it etc...and he never shared with me that there was a problem, thats not fair, that eradicates any chance to work to improve it. No conversation, nothing.

Its like he's woken up one morning and decided I love you but im not in love with you, bye.

 

Pepperbird;

Ive read a lot about selfishness, re-writing of history, blame...all to try alleviate the guilt of what they have done etc?

 

I have told him that the impact of this on me, subsequently impacts our children. It has been awful. I feel a lot of guilt myself.

I dont have any family/support, he knows this.

 

Amethyst;

I could never condone an affair - there is no excuse under the sun for it, an affair is a constant selfish choice to lie and deceive people.

My husband has also helped wreck the OW family, although they were not married and although the child was not her fiances biologically, they had been together about 10 years and had a house together...Ive seen the photos on her social media of their personalised Christmas stockings hung on the mantle...I dont know how my husband can cope with what he has done to her family let alone his own.

 

And of course it has now been 7 months and he has shown no remorse, no tears, no warmth, no empathy, no respect. What he is doing is just as bad as the actual affair if not worse.

He has tried to not even talk to me about it, about our marriage - nothing, its been a cut and run.

The shock of that is really just so huge.

Its sociopathic or narcissistic tbh?!

 

I have read and read and read articles online, I struggle to find any like mine where the man has up and left young children for the OW?...

But information from these gave me positivity that a relationship can recover from an affair, mid life crisis do happen, that you can regain love lost, how men whom havent 'wanted' to give up their OW, for the benefit of their family go NC, mourn the affair and end up happier than before! These are examples that keep me going.

 

To be brutally honest - some people CANT cope with this situation.

And I have been through so much in recent yrs, there becomes a feeling of 'too much' to cope with.

I know I know so many families are divided and have to make it work. But the sheer amount ive been through to have our children, it intensifies everything, our daughter was under 2yrs old when he's done this...Im in that bliss full stage of motherhood, Im sorry if people cant understand - but I cant bare to be parted from my children in this awful way, but especially when there is the added factor that he would take them straight to his family (it would feel like double betrayal) and to the OW, I mean the pain of that makes me feel physically sick and incredibly angry.

 

I still speak to the relationship counsellor we saw and she is shocked at the ongoing situation as her opinion was that he was still in love with me and he was simply hesitant that I would not forgive him.

She spoke so highly of him I was convinced we would be back together by now.

 

Mr.Lucky;

True. He has turned solely self-centered...

But I can only account for my own behavior in the marriage and so I apologised for not giving him more attention, taking my stressful days out on him etc. He would too of course have plenty to apologise for as he should have respected that being a new mother is a big adjustment etc...but without counseling we cant discuss together properly, there is never time alone as we always have the children...and so by me taking accountability for my part, I could only try help him to realise we can work on our marriage and make it better, rather than throw it away.

 

Veronica;

Thanks for this.

He declared to a lot of people that I had 'saved' him. His future was pretty bleak as a teenager.

 

He is still paying all his wage to us and living in the joint account together.

Nothing has changed that way.

And he is not asking about Divorce.

 

Thank you. Our counsellor says I am a strong woman which makes me feel good in myself, she can see that I am fighting for my family and that makes me feel good - rather than looking at it like a weakness.

 

Unfortunately the psychology of these things seems to be that if you turn and walk away they walk after you but like I say I just struggle to be anything but honest and I dont want to walk the other way so its difficult

Two friends of mine went through very similar situations - long term relationships, children, babyloss then a short term affair is discovered.

Both of those took 5 months for the H to realise, and so this timeline had kept me going as I now see these families back together - but im the one left standing at 7 months and I feel quite sorry for myself.

 

From the infertility, illnesses ive had, traumatic births, our first babies rare condition, stillbirth, these were all meant to be rarities...so I hoped this affair wouldnt be the few that lasted more than 6 months etc.

But if we think about the fact the OW only left her fiance around April/May, their 'relationship' if thats what it is, is really quite new and I think its very much secret in the workplace, so possibly still quite 'exciting' - especially as my husband wont 'tell' me if he is still having an affair etc...

 

 

Just from my little hints of clues, I feel like he has met her child and that disturbs me, how this woman could introduce men to her daughter so quickly and obviously I feel anger that he could be spending time with HER daughter instead of our daughter.

So many emotions.

 

USA1ah;

Thanks, I got legal advice straight away, Im equipped with what to do if anything starts heading in that direction.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Rainbows

[ExpatInItaly]

I’m terribly sorry, OP. What a horrible time this has been for you.

 

I don’t necessarily think their relationship will last. However, I also don’t believe he wants the marriage to continue, either. He might indeed benefit from individual counseling but I am not convinced he would want to return home.

 

I would brace for the very likely possibility of divorce. I don’t mean to be pessimistic but I think you two have grown so far apart that life will be better for you without him.

[Mr. Lucky]

I could only try help him to realise we can work on our marriage and make it better, rather than throw it away.

 

Rainbows, I'm afraid you're going to learn the same thing we all did in your situation - one person alone can't save a marriage, any more than one country can unilaterally impose "peace" on another bent on war and destruction.

 

No one can tell you how much time to invest in waiting for him to come to his senses, completely up to you. But I hope you continue to work with your counselor to understand you need to get your life back also. This may mean resetting your expectations and goals as you move towards acceptance.

 

Hope you keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Rainbows]

ExpatInItaly; Do you mean we have grown apart because of these 7 months?

 

What makes our chances low?

<In the light of the fact this is seemingly so sudden/shocking; no problems in the marriage were raised prior to the affair etc.

That hes not pushing for a divorce, or custody, or splitting assets etc, (it took him 2 months to even get another shirt.)

[Lotsgoingon]

Rainbows, you cannot get your husband back ... because ... well, he wasn't right in the first place.

 

Clearly he has some kind of profound trauma ...

 

Clearly the stillborn baby triggered old trauma.

 

Clearly those two difficult pregnancies and the resulting C-sections triggered trauma. He literally had to run. He was far past his ability to cope.

 

The birth of the son that he keeps distance from ... also indicates that your husband was not adequately functioning. The parental instinct can usually overrule traumatic recoil. Well his trauma still reigns supreme, is so powerful that it can shut down a paternal instinct.

 

Sorry, that person is NOT someone you want back. You want instead a healed version of your husband.

 

The affair just sounds like his way of handling the stress. This guy was simply not equipped for this ... look, no one is ready for those series of events. His reaction (fleeing you and the kids--inability to bond with son) reminds me of the accounts of people who were tortured for years by various governments and so on.

 

I'm wondering if he was sexually violated by a man in his childhood or by multiple men, possibly family members. Something horrible happened that he just bottled up ... in the worst way ... This was not run-of-the-mill I didn't get the attention I needed family stuff. This was something unthinkable that happened to him.

 

What troubles me is you still don't seem to take his problems seriously. I hear not one ounce of curiosity about what's really ailing this guy. Instead, you're talking like a 13-year-old who just repeats "I want my man back." Uh ... sorry ... clearly that man does NOT exist. That's fantasy talking.

 

The guy has some kind of serious, paralyzing, soul-crushing abuse and neglect ... that is still raw. And you're still just whistling and wanting him to be a "normal husband." Why in the world would he want to return to face the pressures he cannot handle?

 

Example: his freakout in response to the C-sections. Those surgeries reminded him of something awful ... didn't just remind him ... brought back some awful thing that was done to him.

 

If you want him back, focus on him healing. Encourage him to get some serious therapy ... he needs private therapy plus a support group ... plus medications as well. Have you encouraged him in this path?

 

BTW: when you express to him that you want him back ... what you're doing unwittingly ... is reigniting his previous experiences of having to put up with an impossible family situation with no voice.

 

Help him heal ... and he will have the strength to return to you and to the family--and an ability to begin connecting with his son. Show some curiosity about his anguish (quit talking about his return!) and he will feel he can talk to you and not just to the OW.

 

The infidelity is not the issue. If he didn't do that, he would need alcohol or drugs or something else self-destructive. Don't treat the affair as genuine affection for this other woman. Think of the affair as a substitute for taking heroin or opioid or meth or crack and numbing out.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Lotsgoingon

[Rainbows]

Lotsgoingon;

 

I agree with what you said; except the point that I am solely talking about wanting him back - obviously our situations are vast and we can only concentrate on our main focus on a forum.

But if I wasnt exploring this situation and solely focused on self centered feelings - I wouldnt have posted about his background at all, and Id have just titled my post as "Husband has affair and abandons me and our babies".

Afterall what about my trauma, this now being included in my endurance?

It is not just for myself that I am committed to trying to save our marriage - but our childrens and my husbands, I know that this must torture him inside and I dont want to see him have a breakdown in years to come because its caught up with him.

 

I have shown him consistent support, trying to understand his position, his feelings.

Ive spent a lot of time reading, researching. My brother has offered to pay for counseling for my husband individually or together.

 

(He is on anti-depressants, which have been upped to the highest dose he's ever had recently)

So its confusing when he tells me he feels mentally ok at the moment.

 

I dont believe he has had trauma like you speak of, we've spoken a lot about his childhood through the years...

One of his step-fathers did physically hurt him at least once that I know of.

I bare a lot of grudge that his mother allowed this to happen.

This is what is confusing everyone how he has left me and the children, when he said id saved him etc, and yet returned to the family he said this all stemmed from.

It appears like they were the bad guys, now im the bad guy.

 

Despite my issues with them, I have expressed to him that I understand how they can be support he needs, and we could all build bridges etc to be one support network.

 

I agree about my focus on saving our marriage/family is unwittingly making him feel voiceless, I try to ask him what he thinks, feels.

I definitely want to help him heal, thats why I have not been 'able' to look at this as an affair in the way my friends think I should.

I have empathy for my husband as to what is mentally going on.

 

I will definitely take this on board, I mess up like everyone and sometimes it is difficult.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Rainbows

[elaine567]

I could be wrong, but he is probably made of the same stuff as his mother.

When things got tough she bailed.

He no doubt buried that urge within himself to flee for years, but with the addition of the OW he finally got the courage to leave.

 

Contest

Very traumatic few years, now a toddler and a new baby, sleepless nights, stress+++ and a "boring" HS sweetheart wife, that his family didn't like causing estrangement from them.

vs

soft, cuddly, sexy, understanding woman and sensible older child.

He has now also got his family of origin back. Clean slate.

 

No competition.

No brainer.

Life just got so much better for him...

 

(I guess he never bonded with his son as by that time he knew he had to leave, so he deliberately held back.)

 

This may be "mental illness", but it could simply be seen as a man escaping from what he sees as an intolerably bad situation...

Sorry!

[pepperbird]

I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for him and give him [proverbial pats on the head because he had a tough childhood.

 

 

I don't and I won't.

 

 

 

Lots of people have have terrible childhoods, ones that make his look like a trip to Disneyland. That doesn't give them the right to treat other people, especially their own kids like crap. If anything, the OP's husband should be ashamed of himself for how he's treating his own children.

 

 

In my opinion,this is one of those rare cases where a child's parent really shouldn't be in their life, at least not until they get some help and are willing to do what it takes learn better parenting skills. I'm not getting the sense that this man is interested in that.

 

Op, he may have gone to counseling and therapy. The thing is that won't make any difference unless he realized he had a problem and actually wanted to change. Hr may have gone to get help due to the loss and stress you have both experienced, but that won't make much difference over the long term, as his base issues are still there. It's like filling a cavity when the whole tooth needs treatment.

 

Whatever choices he makes, recognize that they are just that, his choices. If he can't put on his big boy pants long enough to be a dad, then maybe he shouldn't be given the honour of that title. He certainly is doing nothing to deserves it, and your child will suffer if he pops in and out of her life when it suits him.

[Mr. Lucky]

It appears like they were the bad guys, now im the bad guy.

 

You don't seem to be able to accept what the evidence suggests - he's simply a weak, selfish person, acting accordingly. He's bailed on his marriage, abandoned his family and gone back to his enablers.

 

Even if you could somehow lure him back home, how would you have any faith in a future together? Your commitment to marriage is admirable, but you'd be much better served finding someone who feels the same way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[anika99]

The guy has some kind of serious, paralyzing, soul-crushing abuse and neglect ... that is still raw. And you're still just whistling and wanting him to be a "normal husband." Why in the world would he want to return to face the pressures he cannot handle?

 

Example: his freakout in response to the C-sections. Those surgeries reminded him of something awful ... didn't just remind him ... brought back some awful thing that was done to him.

 

Oh please, lots of people are traumatized by real life blood and gore, especially when it's happening to a loved one. Has nothing to do with memories. Your whole post reads like you have personally known this guy for his entire life and you consider yourself an expert on what his problems really are, but in actuality he's a total stranger to you. He's not even posting here.

 

OP I have no idea if your husband is having some sort of breakdown or if he's just a cake eating cheater who is selfishly pursuing his own desires and cheap thrills. It's not your job to figure him out or fix his problems. That is something only he can do.

 

I will say that what you're doing right now is not going to bring him back. You are letting him fence sit and the longer you let him sit on that fence the more comfortable he gets with the separation and the idea of breaking up his family forever. By continuing to be available to him and chasing him to spend family days together and talk and this and that, you are actually making it easier on him to stay away. He's got mistress giving him hot sex and attention and his wife jumping through hoops trying to figure out what's wrong with the poor baby and how can she win him back? He's getting so much positive attention for bad behaviour that it's ridiculous. Why would he ever want to come home while he's being so heavily rewarded for being an irresponsible husband and father?

 

He needs to know that his wife and his children are valuable worthwhile people and that he doesn't have all the time in the world to decide if he values you or not. Right now you are enabling whatever his problems are. You are not inspiring him to change and grow, you are just helping him to treat his family like crap and feel okay about that. The longer this goes on the more likely it is that he will ultimately choose divorce because you are helping him slowly ease himself over to that side of the fence.

 

Time to make him come down off that fence. Time to stop letting him play on both sides of the fence. You need to draw your line in the sand and let him fully experience the consequences of his choices. Change the locks on your house, file for divorce and get a child visitation schedule in place. From now on you only talk to him if it's in regards to child care. Stop discussing his problems with him, stop doing any counseling with him. Make it clear that since he has chosen not to come home that you are moving on and that his problems are no longer any of your concern because you have better things to do with your life other than baby him. Once he realizes that his time is up and he has to make a decision now or that decision will be made for him and once he sees that there are going to be consequences to his behaviour he might start singing a different tune and suddenly decide on his own that he wants his marriage and family. As it stands right now he is not invested in saving the marriage at all. You are the only one fighting for it and he is being dragged along. That's never going to work.

 

I know it's scary to push him off the fence because there is always a real possibility that he is not going to come down on your side but even if that happens you are still better off in the long run. If he doesn't want to be married anymore and no longer loves you like a spouse should isn't it better to face that reality sooner rather than later? At least then you can get out of this limbo and go on with your life. You can start planning your future for yourself and children without the uncertainty.

[mark clemson]

... Right now you are enabling whatever his problems are. You are not inspiring him to change and grow, you are just helping him to treat his family like crap and feel okay about that. The longer this goes on the more likely it is that he will ultimately choose divorce because you are helping him slowly ease himself over to that side of the fence.

 

Time to make him come down off that fence. Time to stop letting him play on both sides of the fence. You need to draw your line in the sand and let him fully experience the consequences of his choices. Change the locks on your house, file for divorce and get a child visitation schedule in place. From now on you only talk to him if it's in regards to child care. Stop discussing his problems with him, stop doing any counseling with him. Make it clear that since he has chosen not to come home that you are moving on and that his problems are no longer any of your concern because you have better things to do with your life other than baby him. Once he realizes that his time is up and he has to make a decision now or that decision will be made for him and once he sees that there are going to be consequences to his behaviour he might start singing a different tune and suddenly decide on his own that he wants his marriage and family.

 

 

This is a good strategy and may well work. However, OP needs to be cognizant of the practical, financial impacts if it does not. Right now she has access to a joint bank account. What happens if he does fall on the other side of the fence? Are she and children able to afford to live a reasonable lifestyle? Put food on the table? Pay a divorce attorney?

 

OP, as much as I DO think Anika's suggestion has a good chance of working as planned, these are all real considerations you need to have figured out in case it doesn't. Your husband's behavior hasn't been extremely logical for a while now and that needs to be taken into account.

[S2B]

Stop trying to figure out why he did this. And stop trying to please him.

 

He did it because he is selfish and self centered!

 

People treat you how YOU train them - so stop trying to please him when he is mistreating you!

 

File for divorce and request child and spousal support! Request to keep everything!

 

Move money and close his credit cards! Make it hurt for him!!!

 

Making him comfortable while he being a dick isn’t the answer! I order to invoke change you MUST make sure someone is uncomfortable!

 

IF he wants her that badly - let it cost him.

 

Do not try and please him - try and find a way to be happy on your own!

 

He did this! These are his actions! This is who he is! No more excuses for him! Let him live with the choices he’s made.

 

Yes, tell everyone! Stop listening to him - it’s the truth of what he’s done - you have every right to tell everyone exactly who he is.