How to choose between wife and someone else?

[Flam215]

This is my first post on any forum ever. I have a hard time opening up to people and tend to avoid uncomfortable conversations. I don’t believe in therapy. But that is another long story. I was going to flat out ask my questions. But when I read other posts I saw that background is important. This is long.

 

I have been married almost 7 years. Been with her for about 18. School sweethearts.

 

The first time I wanted to cheat was the middle of college. This led us to take a break for a few months and I dated a couple of people. I think I felt I got serious too fast and had never been with others. We got back together after a few months.

 

In 2004 I cheated with an old friend on a business trip and she found out. She forgave me. Since then there were 2 others until we got married 2009. It was always about sex a few times with 2 and with 1 of them just once but always with people I had known for a long time. She didn’t know about the others. Only 2004.

 

A few months after the wedding she had about a 2 month affair. I found out but never confronted her. To be honest I didn’t really even feel very much. Especially because that would make me a hypocrite. Even though my incidents were not in a relationship style to me it is the same principle. She never knew I found out and didn’t say anything.

 

So since then I guess everything was the same/usual marriage and I didn’t cheat again. I don’t believe she did either. So 5 years all good. Until this year. I went with a friend to NYC and for some reason I took a condom with me on the road trip. I always said even when I was cheating I would never sleep with someone I just met. I found that thought disgusting and not my style. But for some reason on this trip I thought I should have one just in case I wanted to. I did not have a plan or any real intention. I like to be prepared about everything especially on road trips. But I had never been “prepared to maybe need a condom.”

 

Within hours of being there at a meetup I met this beautiful charming woman. There were activities we had to participate in and we just clicked. I really don’t even remember anything of the meetup except for her. We talked the whole day. During the event and after. We walked around the city just talking. I tried making something happen psychically but she wasn’t that type of girl and I was very nervous and a little guilty.

 

I could barely sleep and could not get her out of my mind. I never ever met anyone like her before. She challenged me even starting that first night. I had to spend more time with her. So I did. That day. The next day and the day after that. Things progressed slowly to an intimate level towards the end of the trip. I lied and gave her the impression I was single. We spoke on the phone and texted everyday after I left.

 

I came back 4 days later by myself. Because last time I had to hang out with my friend too. This time I came to visit her only. I couldn’t get enough. I’m not a cryer but when I left her that second time I cried part of the three hours home. I realized that my feelings were so deep and I was in trouble

 

We talked multiple hours on the phone every single day.

 

I let one week pass and then went back another week. I had to come clean to her. And I had to see her. We spent wonderful days together and I waited until the evening I was leaving to tell her. She was devastated. She threw me out. She was so shocked and cried so much.

 

I could not bear the thought of losing her. I kept contacting her. I knew by then on my last trip that she had fallen in love with me as I had with her. She kept pushing me away but she also had so many questions like how can someone be so cruel. I just told her if she wasn’t so special I wouldn’t have fallen in love.

 

At this point while she is trying to break up with me and I was trying to convince her not to my wife caught me on the phone. I came clean but over 5/7 days. At first I said the woman was a good friend. At the end everything came out but I didn’t tell her the NYC woman didn’t know I was married until my wife threatened to call her up. She eventually found out about the other women from the past too. I also confessed I knew about her affair.

 

Skipping over to now. I have gone back and forth between them. The other woman keeps trying to end it. But I can’t let her go. So I pull her back in. I go spend a week with her. My wife has been sad and angry, but has not left me. I tried to talk about polyamory and they both said no. But my wife didn’t leave me when I felt I had to see my NY woman. My wife gave some ultimatums but I broke them all and she didn’t leave.

 

I love and want both of them. I know that is not possible. And feel guilty for both. I know the longer I don’t make a decision one or both will make it for me as they are both getting destroyed in this process. I can see both their health deteriorating from the stress and sadness especially over the last month so I need to change something. I think my wife will never leave me. But the next time the other woman walks away I know it will be forever.

 

Before you say that the affair is just a fantasy I want to say that because she didn’t know I was married we have had lots and lots or arguments and fights. I am sick about what I did to her. I believe she is a genuinely good person who keeps trying to get away from the situation. I keep telling her I will make a decision. I know her bad sides because of the arguments relating to me being married. I know her bad habits like smoking which I hate but it doesn’t change how I feel. I hate she is so scared to failure sometimes she doesn’t try but I still love her and believe in her. She struggles with depression and sometimes just cannot make it out of bed. I am okay with this too. I just want to be there for her. Yes we have issues. She says she will probably never be able to trust me. I want her to be able to if we can have a future.

 

So on one hand I have someone I grew up with that is my best friend and is really my only real relationship minus my cheating. We know everything that makes each other tick and have been through so much since teenagers. Sometimes though I couldn’t tell her things like smoking weed once in a while to just chill out. But obviously something is wrong there that all this happened. Then I have someone I love deeply and never felt this way for who I haven’t known for very long at all who cannot guarantee me anything because she is so scared and hurt after everything. I know she would willing to try though if I was single but she cannot share and will not be on the side. I can talk to her about anything and I never run out of things to say. She is an amazing debater and we have the greatest of discussions with opposing views. On days I have time we have spoken on the phone for 5/6 hours and I still want more.

 

The NY woman says that it sucks for her to say but anyone would advise stay with the wife. And she believes that too. She thinks anyone thinking about giving up 18 years for someone without a guarantee is an idiot. Also she says she will never be able to measure up to someone who was with me since adolescent. Also I don’t think she will be handle the fact that someone else’s relationship ended to start hers. She hasn’t wanted to be in this mess since she found out but I know she keeps giving me time to hear me out because she loves me.

 

Can you help me figure out things I should think about to choose? Maybe if I make a list of hard questions and write honest answers to them under each person things will come to light? I know I will feel guilt and sadness both ways. It should be an easy choice between the 2 but it is not.

 

Are there any other ways to decide or make the right choice?

 

I know I am scum for putting both these women I love through this but I genuinely need your advice. I am so lost.

 

 

TLDR: I love my wife and another woman. What are things I should be asking myself/doing to make a decision before the choice is taken out of my hands? I don’t want to keep hurting them both.

[katielee]

Welcome!

Buddy, you need to work on yourself, likely without the distraction of another woman. I suggest you spend some time without female companionship of any kind and figure out the kind of guy you want to be. You ARE hurting both of these women BUT you are hurting yourself, if you have values that include fidelity, honesty, transparency and integrity.

Whatever your reason for not liking therapy I urge you to move beyond that and go.

You need to hold your own feet to the fire.

And one thing about the woman in NYC - I realize you started this relationship with her without her knowing you were married, but if she's so great she would not continue this relationship with you in any way, shape or form. Also, how on earth could she ever TRUST YOU if you were to make it more permanent with her?

Let her go to find someone more trustworthy. And if that is you, you need to get to trustworthy. And that's gonna take you a ***** ton of time working on yourself.

Good luck.

Edited December 29, 2015 by katielee

[Sassy Girl]

Could you be any more selfish?

 

You are not a safe person for EITHER woman and hopefully they will BOTH wise up to it.

Listen to Katie...every word.

 

You need to get away from both women and work on being a better human being. Period.

[ladydesigner]

Welcome Flam215 it is true that you are not being fair to either woman, even you have admitted it. The only way to figure out what you really want I feel would be to think about if you did only have ONE choice, a split second to make a decision, who would you choose and why?

 

Then start to dig a little deeper. What did you tell yourself in order to allow yourself to step out of the M because an A doesn't just happen you make a deliberate choice.

[fellini]

You choose one of them, and then you live with your decision.

 

And if you cannot live with your decision, you end it and try to get back with the other.

 

Of course she will have moved on by then, so you better make your next choice the right one.

 

And naturally, even if you choose the right one, the longer you take to do it, the less likely she will end up wanting to be the "right one" for you.

 

So. Choose. One. And get on with your life.

 

Not choosing is what you are using to allow yourself to have both. Choose one before both of them correctly choose NOT to be with you.

 

Hint. They are probably going to do this anyway once you choose. You make it seem like by choosing you will get something out of it other than a relationship. The fact is if you choose the new woman, she will eventually become the one you have been with for 18 years. And if you stay with the one you have been with for 18 years, another new woman will present herself to you the next time you take a trip to whatever city has weman in it.

 

You shouldn't be asking which woman is for you, you should be asking which YOU you want to be for yourself.

Edited December 29, 2015 by fellini

[ShatteredLady]

I've been with my husband most of my life. I thought I knew the 'devastation' of adultery....I had no idea!! It's the cruelest thing that you can do to someone who has loved you all of her life.

 

I'd read "What Wayward Needs to know" at the top of the infidelity forum. If you can't do all that (& to be honest you don't sound like the kind of person who could.) then try with your wife if you want.

 

Reconciliation is incredibly hard. It's not as easy as picking & the woman falling into your arms forever grateful.

[sandylee1]

As you have been a serial cheater... I feel you will continue to do so..even if the NY woman isn't in the picture. It will be someone else down the line and while you call your wife your best friend.. something is missing there. It's more like comfort with her.

 

The fact that you felt nothing when she cheated says a lot.

 

If you stay with your wife.. can you honestly say you won't cheat again? Why don't you both try couples counselling....something led you both to cheat.. try and figure out why you continue to do so. Is it the variety for you ? Or do you not find your wife attractive enough?

There's a reason you keep cheating on her.. try and figure why you do so.

It could be the ego boost..The attention of another woman.. but you need to work on yourself.. or you'll just cheat on the NY woman if you ended up with her

 

Can I ask..if your wife wanted an open marriage..would you agree to it?4

[RightThere]

Are there any other ways to decide or make the right choice?

 

What are things I should be asking myself/doing to make a decision before the choice is taken out of my hands?

 

Although there is a lot to point out, I'll just stick to answering your question(s).

 

I think you need to boil it down to "What do you want?"

 

And "I don't know" isn't an answer, because I'm sure deep down you do have an answer. I'll also say that your actions should give you big indications as to what you really want.

 

Judgement and advice aside, you really need to just be honest with everyone involved and spend some time with yourself making sure you can honestly answer what it exactly is that you want.

[stillafool]

 

I have a hard time opening up to people

 

 

Really? I don't think so especially if it's a goodlooking woman.

 

 

 

Can you help me figure out things I should think about to choose?

 

Yes, definitely start by divorcing your wife. I know you think you love her but you don't. Then lead a bachelors life as you were meant for that.

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Yes, definitely start by divorcing your wife. I know you think you love her but you don't. Then lead a bachelors life as you were meant for that.

 

Completely agree! You should be single because you clearly can't keep it in your pants.

[MuddyFootprints]

Let your wife make the decision for you.

[wmacbride]

It doesn't sound like you have it i you to be long term monogamous with one person. Even before you married, you were cheating.

 

No husband, who doesn't have cheating in the back of his mind somewhere, just happens to take a condom along on a road trip unless he thinks it might be used. Husbands who aren't planning on cheating also don't go to "meet ups" in other cities.

 

instead of pretending to be something you are not, better to leave both women to find men who can give them the stability and fidelity they want, and you can be with as many women as you wish without any complications.

[ShatteredLady]

You packed a condom 'just in case'. You're a married man. Enough said!

 

I have no issue at all with people who don't want monogamy. I have respect for people who know themselves & are HONEST about it.

 

You planned to commit adultery you just didn't expect to get off on it so much.

 

You lied from the start BEFORE you knew all of these wonderful things about the NYC woman. Then to propose having BOTH women available to you as YOU want??!!

 

Your wife 'Best Friend' (REALLY?) has been betrayed in the worst way. This woman in NYC has been deceived, LIED into bed!! Read the OW/OM section & read what these poor tricked women think of men like you.

 

I'm going to leave this one now...it's truly sickening

[Mr. Lucky]

Can you help me figure out things I should think about to choose? Maybe if I make a list of hard questions and write honest answers to them under each person things will come to light? I know I will feel guilt and sadness both ways. It should be an easy choice between the 2 but it is not.

 

Are there any other ways to decide or make the right choice?

 

Given your history, why would you leave your wife for another full-time and exclusive relationship? If the love of your "best friend" couldn't bind you, what makes you think you'd find appropriate boundaries in a new relationship? My question isn't moral or ethical, it's practical - how would you stay faithful to your AP in a LTR ???

 

Listen, some people just aren't built for committed and monogamous relationships. Doesn't make them good or bad, just makes them a terrible fit for marriage unless you're up front about what you're doing.

 

Seems like you'd be happier - and causing less pain to others - if you were single...

 

Mr. Lucky

[minimariah]

you don't love your wife.

 

recognizing that what you're doing to your wife (and vice versa) ISN'T love is the first step, i think. it's comfortable & familiar and she sticks around even though it's clear that your marriage failed a long time ago and even though it's clear you're both using each other as placeholders until somehing better comes along.

 

your fear of leaving your comfortable life is understandable - especially because it's probably not love with this new woman either; but it needs to be done.

 

i don't think you ever grew up mentally or emotionally & the wisest thing for you would be to spend some time on your own; after you divorce.

[carhill]

Both still relatively young, both have had affairs. IMO, call it at 18, remember the good times and move on. Live life as a single person, something apparently not done officially in your adult life as of yet, then decide down the road if a legal committed relationship is your cuppa or not. It could be. Right now, probably not. Good luck!

[Popsicle]

What you want most is to be a cake eater and have them both, so just keep milking it and doing what you're doing until the OW gets fed up and walks away forever. As you said, your wife will never leave you.

[BettyDraper]

Divorce your wife and take some time to grieve that loss. She deserves to be with someone who loves her enough to stay faithful. You are not the kind of man who can be with one woman and that's okay....but you don't need to be in a monogamous marriage or even a committed relationship. I feel sorry for your wife because she will probably feel foolish for wasting years forgiving someone who didn't care about her feelings. She will be traumatized by what you have done to her. Yes, your wife did cheat but that still pales in comparison to the amount of affairs you have had.

 

You love your wife as an old friend and but not the way a husband should cherish and respect his wife. You married her because she was a safe and sensible choice. I doubt that there was much sexual attraction either.

 

So end your marriage and give your wife a generous settlement and/or alimony. I say this because you have put her through a lot. Thank her for years of devotion and wish her well. Tell the NYC woman when the divorce is final and let her decide what she wants from there. She's wise to stay away from you until you get your head together.

 

Oh and you don't "love" the NYC woman. You are just experiencing the heady rush of sexual attraction and hormones. You are mistaking limerence for love.

[NewLeaf512]

Divorce your wife and take some time to grieve that loss. She deserves to be with someone who loves her enough to stay faithful. You are not the kind of man who can be with one woman and that's okay....but you don't need to be in a monogamous marriage or even a committed relationship. I feel sorry for your wife because she will probably feel foolish for wasting years forgiving someone who didn't care about her feelings. She will be traumatized by what you have done to her. Yes, your wife did cheat but that still pales in comparison to the amount of affairs you have had.

 

You love your wife as an old friend and but not the way a husband should cherish and respect his wife. You married her because she was a safe and sensible choice. I doubt that there was much sexual attraction either.

 

So end your marriage and give your wife a generous settlement and/or alimony. I say this because you have put her through a lot. Thank her for years of devotion and wish her well. Tell the NYC woman when the divorce is final and let her decide what she wants from there. She's wise to stay away from you until you get your head together.

 

Oh and you don't "love" the NYC woman. You are just experiencing the heady rush of sexual attraction and hormones. You are mistaking limerence for love.

 

 

I agree with this pretty much 100% but you MAY love NYC woman. She is smart to stay away from you. Her depression really doesn't factor in as you describe, indeed your knowledge of her depression and how you admittedly twist her in knots makes you more despicable.

 

Let me rephrase in my words what sentiment resonated with me in the above whilst adding to it:

 

You claim to love and respect your W as a friend, platonic family type member and someone you care deeply for. You do what you like with NYC woman keeping in touch knowing your W will never leave you and you have wagged it in her face. That is emotional terrorism. What you are doing to her is emotional abuse.

 

You say that you are in love with NYC woman. You tricked and lied to her and now are stringing her along. That's emotional abuse.

 

 

Forget about what's good for you in this moment. Get a divorce and set your wife free to find love and release her from a sub-par marriage where she is a consolation prize if you really care about her.

 

NYC woman will decide for herself if you are anything she wants when the poop storm you created gets cleared up.

[Flam215]

Thanks for all the responses. I knew I’d get bashed. I deserve it. That is maybe what I need to see/feel. There are many good points and I’ll reply to questions as soon as I can. But that might be much later in the evening or tomorrow. I just want to clear up a few things before I address what has been said so far.

 

A few things first. Trying to be more anonymous, I changed the way I write. I don’t know why. But I feel strangely paranoid writing here. It makes me look completely uneducated and so many of those sentences were confusing. As I’ve said, I’m not much of a sharer of feelings and sometimes writing emails is even strange for me. So that combined with being nervous/upset combined with trying to change my writing style did not work out. I’m still writing strangely now. Not sure why. This is all very new to me. I’m so messed up right now.

 

So thank you for making it through the long post I wrote badly and then replying.

 

It was a lot longer at first. I shortened it and took the non-essential information out. But I accidentally took out one of the most important sections too. And when I saw no one replied to it, I realized that it wasn’t there. I’ve made it a more detailed now though because it’s important to what’s happening right now. And it makes me look even worse if that is possible. So I’m ready for the harsh.

 

So a major catalyst happened about a month and a half to ago. NY lady had become completely withdrawn and upset all the time so decided she didn’t even want to talk to me anymore. At this point I hadn’t seen her for 3 weeks already because she said it was too hard and confusing to see me at all. She sent me a goodbye email and said she wouldn’t be responding this time if I got in touch.

 

Something felt different. So I agreed, seeing how both of them had become sad and anxious.

 

I still couldn’t let her go. Within a week I texted and emailed but no response for a month. She blocked me on everything. We have not gone more than 2 days not talking before this. Finally I just started calling and eventually about 2 weeks ago she answered. She finally unblocked me on a few things. She said only temporarily.

 

I think I’m more confused now than I was before because lost her like that. It’s so good to just talk to her. Even though all our conversations have been pretty sad/angry ones, I don’t mind as long as I can talk to her or see her face on a video for a little while. Even if she won’t see me in person. I’ve never missed someone like I miss her.

 

The problem is that my wife also knew when NY woman decided to end things. Since then we have had 1 argument regarding the other woman. Most of the time everything is mostly back to normal. So I haven’t told her we are back in touch. I don’t want to hurt her again if it’s going to end with NY woman anyway.

 

I think NY lady has lost more respect for me because of this, if that’s possible. She says I’m cruel to not let my wife know since my wife doesn’t even know she’s “competing” for something or that I’m still confused. She doesn’t want to even talk out our problems because she said then she’s just as dishonest as me by being a secret. So I should just let her go and not pull her back in again or at least tell my wife we’re in touch so my wife can make her own choices/rules/opinions.

 

All of this is why I know when my NY lady stops talking to me this time, it’ll be for good.

 

I don’t even know how to fix this part so that is why I asked the bigger question of how to choose flat out.

[ShatteredLady]

How would you feel, after all these years, if your wife just left, dumped you, refused to talk except through lawyers? How would it feel to sign those divorce papers?

 

If HONESTLY any of that would feel like a relief, even exciting, then go for it! Keep on chasing the new woman.

 

I think you need to seriously consider why you packed that condom!?!?!?

 

If this is a midlife crisis or chasing a bit of a high you could be loosing everything for nothing! You seem so confident that your wife won't leave you. If you spoke to my H now I bet he would say the same thing! BELIEVE me, the pain & anger is festering. When she finds you've lied EVEN MORE & are still having an affair you are VERY likely to loose her.

[HereNorThere]

This isn't about choosing between your wife and NY woman. It's more just about whether or not you are going to leave your wife. I'm not sure if you just aren't picking up on it or what, but NY woman is straight up telling you that she isn't a choice.

 

Most people who date married people do so because they like dating married people. If you become a "real" relationship to her, she's gonna ditch you soooo fast it's not even funny. Think about it - are you really that special? Nah, she just likes the convenience of having a relationship without any real intimacy. Leaving your wife will freak her out so bad and she'll immediately jump ship. Also, she already knows you aren't loyal or trustworthy, so there are zero chances that she will invest in any kind of relationship with you. In fact, it sounds like NY woman has more integrity than the average OW. You've made her feel bad about herself (rightfully so) and she's never going to forget that she betrayed her own values for you.

 

You should leave your wife, but not because you found another person (you haven't.) You should leave because you care about her. If she is truly your friend, you should want better for her. Leaving her will hurt her temporarily, but staying is like knowingly putting her through a lifetime of torture. If she were your daughter, sister or mother, would you allow another man to put her through this kind of abuse? Do the right thing because it's the right thing for her, not you. You've been selfish enough and it's time to put someone else's needs before yours. In the long run you'll be happier being single. You've got the "itch" and it's unfair to bring everyone else down with you. Until you hit rock bottom, you'll just continue to destroy more and more people.

Edited December 30, 2015 by HereNorThere

[Mr. Lucky]

The problem is that my wife also knew when NY woman decided to end things. Since then we have had 1 argument regarding the other woman. Most of the time everything is mostly back to normal. So I haven’t told her we are back in touch. I don’t want to hurt her again if it’s going to end with NY woman anyway.

 

These are the kind of things that make me shake me head in disbelief. And my amazement isn't based on all the contradictions inherent in what you've written, it's that you're absolutely oblivious to them.

 

About your wife, you write "I don’t want to hurt her again". Really?!? You'd have to pick up a sharp object and stab her in the eye to cause her any more pain. And yet even that isn't enough to make you stop the "eeny meeny miny, moe" game you're playing with people's happiness and lives.

 

I hope you get what you want. At least then someone walks away from all this destruction with a happy face...

 

Mr. Lucky

[katielee]

Flam - thanks for coming back. Most ppl run.

We don't care how you write.

My advice still stands. You need to work on you, not a relationship.

[carhill]

About your wife, you write "I don’t want to hurt her again". Really?!? You'd have to pick up a sharp object and stab her in the eye to cause her any more pain. And yet even that isn't enough to make you stop the "eeny meeny miny, moe" game you're playing with people's happiness and lives.

 

For men, this is easy. We compartmentalize. My commander tells me 'kill those men'. Now I don't know those men and they've done me no harm and I may not want to kill them but that's my mission so I do it. It doesn't mean I hate them or like them or love them. I divorce feeling from the act. This is socialized into most men as children, to ignore pain and divorce feeling from action. Men can certainly love their spouse and still commit acts that, viewed by others, appear to indicate no love at all. The key is this is other's perception being projected onto the man. None of them can get into his head and read his mind. Certainly, they can offer their opinions. Men compartmentalize reception of those too, and can analyze them without any emotions. Kind of like they analyze and execute targets set forth by their commander. Dispassionately.

 

IDK for sure if the OP is like that, none of us do, but most men who have affairs do move on to other relationships and marriages, or repair their existing one. They have the tools and use them. It's what men do. If they got all tied up in the emotional upheaval they'd end up in a locked facility, dead, in therapy or, at best, impotent to move on. For the OP, I heartily recommend the therapy part. It can help. Clarify. Solidify choice. Good luck!