Is he still cheating???

[sadandangry]

i am so confused and hurt, hopefully I can get a little advice and help with my emotions here.

 

My husband of 25 years recently had an affair. When I caught him, we talked and he said he was sorry and he loves me and wants to save our marriage. He said he ended the affair which had only been going on a short time and nothing physical had happened. (I knew that to be true) However, he did not end it. The affair went on for 3 months and they met up at least 4 times after I found out. (this is what I know about) He says it never went physical, but I will never know.

 

He also has a drug problem and was using pretty heavy during this time.

 

The affair started about 6 months ago, meaning, if he is telling the truth, it ended about 3 months ago. We are trying to work things out and save our marriage. He has made a lot of changes, getting help with the drug problem, spending more time with me, gps on his phone so I know he doesnt meet her again...etc.

 

Obviously my trust is gone and I am having trouble with the fact that they may still be communicating. Part of me wants to leave the marriage because I dont know if I will ever trust again and part of me wants to stay because I know the love is still there for both of us. At this point we are trying to reconcile and he is showing me a lot of love...

 

How do I keep from going crazy wondering if they are still talking? Could this have been a result of drugs and now it is possible that it really is over because the drug use has ended? Sometimes I feel like it is still going on, Is that a gut feeling because it is happening or paranoia on my part? I am not the type of person to just sit back and see if something else pops up. I need to know if something is going on and I have no way of knowing. I am driving him crazy because I am so suspicious of everything. I feel like I am losing it. What do I do? How do I handle this??

 

Can anyone help me, please?

[PegNosePete]

However, he did not end it. The affair went on for 3 months and they met up at least 4 times after I found out.

If you believe this has not gone physical then Ihave a bridge to sell you.

 

You know what they say. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What do they say about 3 times?

 

He lied and had an affair.

He lied about the affair being over.

Why on earth would you give him ANOTHER chance after all of that?

 

Obviously my trust is gone and I am having trouble with the fact that they may still be communicating.

Right, if you want to save the marriage then I would tell him this. He has severely wronged you and if he wants to keep you as his wife then he needs to accept and stick to some ground rules. If he doesn't accept the rules, or accepts them but breaks them later, then you are DONE. And you have to MEAN it. The rules:

 

1) From now on you require 100% honesty from him. He has lied to you so much that one more lie, no matter how small, will breaks the camel's back. He will right now, tell you EVERYTHING that happened between them. The full truth. Not the gory details, but how far it went, how often, etc. This is his ONE AND ONLY CHANCE to admit everything. The truth will come out eventually and if you later find out that he lied or omitted anything, then you are DONE.

 

2) He will hand over his phone, email, facebook and all other passwords to you right now. You will check them for evidence of an ongoing affair. If you find any then you are DONE. If he refuses or if he "just wants to use the toilet" (aka delete the evidence) then you are DONE. And you will monitor all of thse for the forseeable future. For now he has NO PRIVACY because you have NO TRUST in him. Maybe in time that trust will be rebuilt and he may get his privacy back, but for now, you have NONE and you need to VERIFY his words by monitoring his actions.

 

3) He will never speak to or have any contact with this woman again. He will delete and block her on all social media, email, and block her phone number. If she contacts him then he will not reply at all, he will show it to you and you will decide together what response (if any) is appropriate.

 

4) You will start marriage councelling ASAP.

 

If he moans, whinges, complains about these rules or says they're unfair or whatever, then tell him that is the only way you'll take him back, if he doesn't like them then he can take a hike. And stick to your guns. You have to be ready to walk away from your marriage here because if you give him an inch he will take a mile, and you'll be here again in 6 months with a story of another (or the same) affair...

[oldshirt]

- You DONT know it to be true that it was never physical. Druggies lie and cheaters lie, the chances that he has been completely forthcoming and truthful with you is basically nil.

 

- for reconciliation to even be a consideration he must be sincerely remorseful and grasp the gravity of the damage that has been done. Anyone can say they are sorry and and then give back rubs and do the dishes more often.

 

Does he seem the least bit devastated and horrified by own his actions?

 

- If the OW is married has her H been informed so he can monitor on her end?

 

- a drug problem and adultry both require professional intervention and therapy. Is he receiving therapy for the drug abuse and are both of you in professional MC?

 

- the fact that there was a relapse in the affair is very damming.

 

- the stand and advice here for anyone with legitimate suspicions of their spouse cheating is to install skylights programs onto computers to see what they are doing on the computer, hack email and Facebook accounts, place voice activated recorders in their car and any other place they may be having secret conversations. (Cheaters often talk in the car to and from work)

 

- obtain phone logs and records from the phone service.

 

- go all CSI and go tthrough the house and all his stuff to see if he has another phone he uses to communicate with her.

 

- He knows the GPS is on his phone so hide one in his car in case he is leaving the phone at the office.

 

- Your H is at extremely high risk for not only adultry but for drug use and other illegal and dangerous activity. Hiring a PI to investigate would be legitimate and warranted.

 

- consult an attorney and begin preparing for a divorce and have all the paperwork in order.

 

- with your attorneys direction, begin securing all of your financial instruments and properties.

 

- You haven't mentioned children but if you have children, begin making preparations for childcare and custody issues. This will be complex since there is drug use involved. You absolutely MUST consult an attorney.

 

- begin planning an preparing for your post divorce life. The more prepared you are for it, the less you will fear it and the less likely you will be swayed by his charming and reassuring words.

 

- and with that being said, start living your life by the code of, "actions speak louder than words." Druggies are master manipulators and have mastered the spoken word. They live by manipulating and deceiving others by their words and with their tears and promises. You must learn to look at his actions and behaviors and judge him by what he actually does and ignore his words. If he says one thing but is doing something else, what he is doing is the truth and the reality.

[BlackHat]

I do not know whether my advice will help you, but I promise I will tell you the truth.

 

My husband of 25 years recently had an affair.

 

...which could be his 20th affair for all that you know.

 

When I caught him, we talked and he said he was sorry and he loves me and wants to save our marriage.

 

Standard answer. As a cheater myself, every time I have been caught I have said the exact same words.

 

He said he ended the affair which had only been going on a short time and nothing physical had happened. (I knew that to be true)

 

No you don´t. YOU ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, DON´T

 

I can´t be any clearer: Yes sure you guys didn´t have sex for many months or years. That is probably what made him take the step to cheat on you. Then, after he had his first 20yo, coming back to see you would left him permanently impotent...until the next time he sees his new young toy.

 

Don´t get me wrong. I do not mean to offend you, but you need to get a grip of reality; emotional cheating is for women. We men cheat for sex (except for very rare occasions, and let´s not invoke our good stars here).

 

However, he did not end it. The affair went on for 3 months and they met up at least 4 times after I found out. (this is what I know about) He says it never went physical, but I will never know.

 

The affair went for as long as you could find out. Whenever I cheated I gave the smallest number possible (starting from "a few weeks"). Depending on my spouse or girlfriend reaction, I would extend that number until something she could deal with. Its a bit of trial and error.

 

You found 4 times...then think they met around 20 times. That should be a correct ballpark figure. But he will forever deny it because, as all cheaters know, as long as you deny and she doesn´t have proof, you are safe.

 

Just put this on your head: The name of the game is NOT honesty. A cheater that is caught will be punished whether he tells 10% of the truth or 100%, and if fact the more truth he says, the bigger the punishment.

 

Consider this: If he comes clean and tells you that he has been cheating on you for 10 years, you will be devastated. If he lies and tells you that it has been months, you will not feel as bad. There is a risk that you will find the truth, of course, but chances are you may find that he cheated for 2 or 3 years back, but it is almost impossible that you find the whole truth.

 

The risk is worth the reward, so he will lie. And remember: Cheating and lies go hand in hand.

 

He also has a drug problem and was using pretty heavy during this time.

 

Cheating is the least of your problems. Excuse my bluntness but: Do you really love yourself that little that you go out with a junkie? I mean, sure I am a cheater too, but at least I don´t go out shooting god knows what with god knows who.

 

You will wish you were cheated the next time you go do an HIV test, dear.

 

The affair started about 6 months ago, meaning, if he is telling the truth, it ended about 3 months ago. We are trying to work things out and save our marriage. He has made a lot of changes, getting help with the drug problem, spending more time with me, gps on his phone so I know he doesnt meet her again...etc.

 

GPS on his phone....which one? Because yours truly has 2. I have 2 phones, two wallets, and extra shirts and underwear in my office.

 

And of course there is the thing about the phone who will conveniently go out of signal or battery.

 

And do you know about these free applications that let you cheat the gps signal of the phone? If your beloved junkie knows a thing about technology he will download one of them.

 

I am not trying to make you paranoid. Just tell you how things are around here.

 

Obviously my trust is gone and I am having trouble with the fact that they may still be communicating. Part of me wants to leave the marriage because I dont know if I will ever trust again and part of me wants to stay because I know the love is still there for both of us. At this point we are trying to reconcile and he is showing me a lot of love...

 

Emotionally invested, aren´t we?

 

How do I keep from going crazy wondering if they are still talking? Could this have been a result of drugs and now it is possible that it really is over because the drug use has ended? Sometimes I feel like it is still going on, Is that a gut feeling because it is happening or paranoia on my part? I am not the type of person to just sit back and see if something else pops up. I need to know if something is going on and I have no way of knowing. I am driving him crazy because I am so suspicious of everything. I feel like I am losing it. What do I do? How do I handle this??

 

Can anyone help me, please?

 

Let me help you.

 

1. There is no such thing as a recovered drug addict. I had a drug problem in my own family so I know a bit about it.

 

2. The least person you can trust in this world is a drug addict.

 

3. You are now what we call an enabler. You trying to patch things up allows him to continue his behavior. You need to read more about addictions and understand that you are probably doing him more harm than good.

 

But this is not about his addiction but his cheating, so let me start again:

 

1. You will NEVER trust him again. You are going crazy because you are trying to reconcile the idea of you "before" and "after" the cheating and its not going to happen. Your life before cheating is gone and will never be the same. You will find here and there small happy seconds...until his car breaks down and you think he has a girl pinned against the wall.

 

2. This is not the first time he cheated but the first time you caught him.

 

3. You need to ask yourself if you can, in all honesty, trust him again. If the answer is "no", then move on. I do not know how old you are but I have seen a 60yo woman getting divorced and being happy.

 

4. Do a personal account of your life with him. If the happy times are less than the unhappy ones, get a divorce.

 

Good luck sister.

[flowergirl14]

I do not know whether my advice will help you, but I promise I will tell you the truth.

 

 

 

...which could be his 20th affair for all that you know.

 

 

 

Standard answer. As a cheater myself, every time I have been caught I have said the exact same words.

 

 

 

No you don´t. YOU ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, DON´T

 

I can´t be any clearer: Yes sure you guys didn´t have sex for many months or years. That is probably what made him take the step to cheat on you. Then, after he had his first 20yo, coming back to see you would left him permanently impotent...until the next time he sees his new young toy.

 

Don´t get me wrong. I do not mean to offend you, but you need to get a grip of reality; emotional cheating is for women. We men cheat for sex (except for very rare occasions, and let´s not invoke our good stars here).

 

 

 

The affair went for as long as you could find out. Whenever I cheated I gave the smallest number possible (starting from "a few weeks"). Depending on my spouse or girlfriend reaction, I would extend that number until something she could deal with. Its a bit of trial and error.

 

You found 4 times...then think they met around 20 times. That should be a correct ballpark figure. But he will forever deny it because, as all cheaters know, as long as you deny and she doesn´t have proof, you are safe.

 

Just put this on your head: The name of the game is NOT honesty. A cheater that is caught will be punished whether he tells 10% of the truth or 100%, and if fact the more truth he says, the bigger the punishment.

 

Consider this: If he comes clean and tells you that he has been cheating on you for 10 years, you will be devastated. If he lies and tells you that it has been months, you will not feel as bad. There is a risk that you will find the truth, of course, but chances are you may find that he cheated for 2 or 3 years back, but it is almost impossible that you find the whole truth.

 

The risk is worth the reward, so he will lie. And remember: Cheating and lies go hand in hand.

 

 

 

Cheating is the least of your problems. Excuse my bluntness but: Do you really love yourself that little that you go out with a junkie? I mean, sure I am a cheater too, but at least I don´t go out shooting god knows what with god knows who.

 

You will wish you were cheated the next time you go do an HIV test, dear.

 

The affair started about 6 months ago, meaning, if he is telling the truth, it ended about 3 months ago. We are trying to work things out and save our marriage. He has made a lot of changes, getting help with the drug problem, spending more time with me, gps on his phone so I know he doesnt meet her again...etc.

 

GPS on his phone....which one? Because yours truly has 2. I have 2 phones, two wallets, and extra shirts and underwear in my office.

 

And of course there is the thing about the phone who will conveniently go out of signal or battery.

 

And do you know about these free applications that let you cheat the gps signal of the phone? If your beloved junkie knows a thing about technology he will download one of them.

 

I am not trying to make you paranoid. Just tell you how things are around here.

 

 

 

Emotionally invested, aren´t we?

 

 

 

Let me help you.

 

1. There is no such thing as a recovered drug addict. I had a drug problem in my own family so I know a bit about it.

 

2. The least person you can trust in this world is a drug addict.

 

3. You are now what we call an enabler. You trying to patch things up allows him to continue his behavior. You need to read more about addictions and understand that you are probably doing him more harm than good.

 

But this is not about his addiction but his cheating, so let me start again:

 

1. You will NEVER trust him again. You are going crazy because you are trying to reconcile the idea of you "before" and "after" the cheating and its not going to happen. Your life before cheating is gone and will never be the same. You will find here and there small happy seconds...until his car breaks down and you think he has a girl pinned against the wall.

 

2. This is not the first time he cheated but the first time you caught him.

 

3. You need to ask yourself if you can, in all honesty, trust him again. If the answer is "no", then move on. I do not know how old you are but I have seen a 60yo woman getting divorced and being happy.

 

4. Do a personal account of your life with him. If the happy times are less than the unhappy ones, get a divorce.

 

Good luck sister.

 

Black hat, What should she do specifically to confirm her suspicions? In other words, how could she catch him. If your wife wanted to catch you what should she do? You seem to be willing to let us bs in on the cheater playbook??

[BetrayedH]

You need to embrace investigating and doing it quietly. Is it unsavory? Sure. But this is how trust is rebuilt. If you investigate and find something, you'll be able to make a more informed decision about how to move forward. If you investigate and find nothing, you both win.

 

The voice activated recorder is probably the most worthwhile venture. They're relatively inexpensive and as oldshirt noted, it's very common for affair partners to talk on the way to/from work. Velcro it under the steering column.

 

A GPS for his car is also wise since he already knows you GPS his phone. It's pretty easy for him to leave his phone at the office and forward his calls to a second phone.

 

Get tech savvy with his phone and computer if you're able. Look at internet history and indexed searches. Check social media and apps for deleted messages. Compare the phone bill with the phone itself to identify discrepancies (like deleted texts) and frequently called numbers.

 

Don't share that you're doing any of this. You won't have confidence in any methods that you've shared with him because you'll know he could have circumvented them. Commit to doing this stuff for at least a year. The concept is "trust but verify."

[Arieswoman]

sadandangry,

 

He also has a drug problem and was using pretty heavy during this time.

 

^^^ this is a bigger problem than him cheating IMO.

 

There are already 3 people in this marriage, you, him and Mr H. And now he wants to add another woman as well?

 

The most important question is not asking him if he's cheating, but asking yourself why you want to stay in such a crowded marriage? You might like to get into some therapy to explore this.

 

Good luck.

[BlackHat]

Black hat, What should she do specifically to confirm her suspicions? In other words, how could she catch him. If your wife wanted to catch you what should she do? You seem to be willing to let us bs in on the cheater playbook??

 

The problem is that we cheaters play with common sense. You see, in your heart of hearts you don´t want us to be cheaters, because when we are good we rock your world and make you feel like you are the most important person in the world...in fact, that´s why we get to be cheaters, we are a charming bunch.

 

So you will hold onto that minimum fraction of a tiny percentage that, perhaps, it was all a misunderstanding. You lose all common sense because you are so desperate to save the relationship or marriage that you will be willing to believe that someone just dropped perfume in our suits, or that that lipstick is probably from a scratch with someone on the street. You will believe anything, and that´s how we get away with everything.

 

She doesn´t need to catch him. She caught him already! She is not looking for a reason to leave him, she is looking for a reason to keep him! Believe it or not she is not here looking for us to tell her what she already know...she is looking for us to validate her in her crazy oh Lord Jesus crazy idea that he is going to turn himself into the loving husband of her dreams.

 

She is like a bad gambler, trying to play one more hand to see if she can recover some of these wasted years. And, despite all that we tell her, and others told her before us, she will still sit down on the table and try it one more time. In fact, we cheaters count on it.

 

Common sense, that´s all it takes. You don´t need to catch us sleeping with the other girl. To you it should be enough that he dispersal and you don´t know about it, because that is as disrespectful as a sexual affair.

 

My wife should pack and go the second she could see a phone number out of place. Marriage should be a total commitment, the total nakedness of the soul, that you know all about each other and hold no secrets to each other.

 

But she won´t do it. You won´t do it. And we count on it.

[HereNorThere]

I think it's sad that people equate drug use with cheating. People are prescribed heroin and other opiates, methamphetamine, sedatives, etc. by the truckload, but I guess it's okay when a doctor gives it it you. God forbid someone someone do something without a prescription and suddenly turn into the world's worst person in everyone else's eyes. I know plenty of people who have chronic pain conditions and take higher dose opiates, or people who are just pot heads and like to get stoned. It doesn't make them immoral or want to cheat.

 

Some cheaters use drugs, some cheaters don't. It doesn't make anyone less moral because they do. He's a cheater because he's a crappy person. If he uses drugs to excess and hurts other people with his usage, it's because he's a crappy person. The drug thing is just an excuse. If it wasn't drugs, he's be addicted to cheeseburgers or gambling, because he has no boundaries, no empathy, no impulse control. The drugs didn't create this problem, it's part of who he is. If he quit all drugs tomorrow, he's still just be a dirty cheater who doesn't use drugs.

[Lion Heart]

Sadandangry,

 

I'm going to be blunt. Basically because you must be min 40yo and up. So be the grown up in this relationship.

 

Do the 180. Now. You MUST do this to prepare for either eventuality ie WHDAH staying and /or marraige ending. Don't be sad in front of him, be angry! I'm certainly not advocating physical violence but unless you feel angry, you're not going to have it in you to follow through with everything you need to do.

 

Obviously this man needs intensive IC but has he sought this of his own accord? If the answer is no, then this is YOUR problem not his (as he sees it). He's taking no responsibility for his habit nor his behaviours nor his CHOICES.

 

Pleeeaaaasse don't make the excuse he was high so had a minimum 3 months A! High for a solid 3 months? You're having yourself on, right? I'm not a drug user so I can't say for certain that he had NO idea or NO control nor that his choice barometer was not affected but surely he definitely knew he was putting his private parts in a woman other than his wife?

From your original post, you are blame shifting and smoke screening FOR him. You are making excuses for him left, right and Centre. Don't! HIS ACTIONS, HIS DECISIONS, HIS PROBLEMS that have all been dumped on you with your arms wide open to catch. Throw them back.

 

Know that the only person you can control is yourself. You have no control whatsoever over WDAH.

 

Thankyou Black Hat for another squiz into the cheaters handbook. Yes cheaters are most certainly the worst kind of charming. Manipulatively charming.

It appears that the more charming they are when in a relationship, the more likely they are cheating right then.

 

I feel for you sad. It's alot to give up, 25y of marriage but WDAH threw that out the window when he cheated. He had little to no respect for you nor his vows. He'll never have any respect unless you do the 180.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart.

[oldshirt]

I think it's sad that people equate drug use with cheating. People are prescribed heroin and other opiates, methamphetamine, sedatives, etc. by the truckload, but I guess it's okay when a doctor gives it it you. God forbid someone someone do something without a prescription and suddenly turn into the world's worst person in everyone else's eyes. I know plenty of people who have chronic pain conditions and take higher dose opiates, or people who are just pot heads and like to get stoned. It doesn't make them immoral or want to cheat.

 

Some cheaters use drugs, some cheaters don't. It doesn't make anyone less moral because they do. He's a cheater because he's a crappy person. If he uses drugs to excess and hurts other people with his usage, it's because he's a crappy person. The drug thing is just an excuse. If it wasn't drugs, he's be addicted to cheeseburgers or gambling, because he has no boundaries, no empathy, no impulse control. The drugs didn't create this problem, it's part of who he is. If he quit all drugs tomorrow, he's still just be a dirty cheater who doesn't use drugs.

 

Druggies brains aren't firing on all cylinders while they are under the influence of chemicals (under the influence also means during withdrawls and the time period before they are completely free of the chemicals actions which can take months)

 

They lie, they deceive, they manipulate and they backslide even when they are trying to clean up.

 

Their brains don't process information and feelings and such they way they should. Their perceptions and conceptions of reality are off kilter. They are not fully functioning human beings. Yes some function better than others and many are able to hold down jobs and maintain friendships and never forget to feed the dog but they are not functioning at a level they would be capable of if they were stone cold sober.

 

Leaving an addict is a perfectly valid and reasonable thing to do ( I'm talking a drug abuser here here, not someone with medically managed chronic pain that is following their therapy appropriately)

 

Having a spouse that is not only cheating but I a druggie too is just another layer of conflict and chaos.

 

If someone wants to start dating an addict again after they've cleaned themselves up and have been straight for several years, that their business if they are willing to take that risk. But no-one should be held to have remain married to someone and sit on the shelf with their life on hold while they are using and doing stupid stuff.

[BlackHat]

Thankyou Black Hat for another squiz into the cheaters handbook. Yes cheaters are most certainly the worst kind of charming. Manipulatively charming.

It appears that the more charming they are when in a relationship, the more likely they are cheating right then.

 

I feel for you sad. It's alot to give up, 25y of marriage but WDAH threw that out the window when he cheated. He had little to no respect for you nor his vows. He'll never have any respect unless you do the 180.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart.

 

Thanks to you for understanding what I am doing and write to me without gratuitous insults (I don´t consider it an insult to write the truth).

 

There are many kinds of cheaters, but I would say without pride that I am in the worst group: The charmers. Maybe sometime I shall write in my blog about this topic but suffice to say that because we are charming we can get away with cheating.

 

I believe deep down the "cheated party" knows about it, but also knows that when the cat is out of the hat she will be alone...better off? I have heard several times when I have been "caught" that as much as they hate me they would have preferred to keep me.

 

Like the old saying...its complicated.

[Maison]

I do not know whether my advice will help you, but I promise I will tell you the truth.

 

 

 

...which could be his 20th affair for all that you know.

 

 

 

Standard answer. As a cheater myself, every time I have been caught I have said the exact same words.

 

 

 

No you don´t. YOU ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, DON´T

 

I can´t be any clearer: Yes sure you guys didn´t have sex for many months or years. That is probably what made him take the step to cheat on you. Then, after he had his first 20yo, coming back to see you would left him permanently impotent...until the next time he sees his new young toy.

 

Don´t get me wrong. I do not mean to offend you, but you need to get a grip of reality; emotional cheating is for women. We men cheat for sex (except for very rare occasions, and let´s not invoke our good stars here).

 

 

 

The affair went for as long as you could find out. Whenever I cheated I gave the smallest number possible (starting from "a few weeks"). Depending on my spouse or girlfriend reaction, I would extend that number until something she could deal with. Its a bit of trial and error.

 

You found 4 times...then think they met around 20 times. That should be a correct ballpark figure. But he will forever deny it because, as all cheaters know, as long as you deny and she doesn´t have proof, you are safe.

 

Just put this on your head: The name of the game is NOT honesty. A cheater that is caught will be punished whether he tells 10% of the truth or 100%, and if fact the more truth he says, the bigger the punishment.

 

Consider this: If he comes clean and tells you that he has been cheating on you for 10 years, you will be devastated. If he lies and tells you that it has been months, you will not feel as bad. There is a risk that you will find the truth, of course, but chances are you may find that he cheated for 2 or 3 years back, but it is almost impossible that you find the whole truth.

 

The risk is worth the reward, so he will lie. And remember: Cheating and lies go hand in hand.

 

 

 

Cheating is the least of your problems. Excuse my bluntness but: Do you really love yourself that little that you go out with a junkie? I mean, sure I am a cheater too, but at least I don´t go out shooting god knows what with god knows who.

 

You will wish you were cheated the next time you go do an HIV test, dear.

 

 

 

Black hat, What should she do specifically to confirm her suspicions? In other words, how could she catch him. If your wife wanted to catch you what should she do? You seem to be willing to let us bs in on the cheater playbook??

If he really doesn't want to be caught... He Will find a way. For instance MM and me have been seeing each other years. We know how to find each other without a phone.