Is there really a fundamental difference?

[frozensprouts]

After reading a ton of posts on here over the years, I'm beginning to wonder if there is some kind of fundamental difference between the way other men/women, wayward spouses and betrayed spouses view marriage and romantic relationships..

 

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there does seem to be a difference...

 

( I know my husband's ex-other woman really viewed them differently, but she doesn't seem to be the "norm")...

 

how do you view marriage and romantic relationships?

( please be nice, no attacking or mean words please, as that doesn't accomplish anything)

 

Myself, I view romantic relationships as something special. It takes me a long time to form a romantic bond with someone ( I'm slow to get started:laugh:), but once I do, it's a serious and not a thing to be taken lightly

>I also feel that while we can't control who we are attracted to, we can control who we form relationships with

 

> For me, marriage is a lifetime commitment that I made to my spouse, myself, my children , my family and society in general. There are many bennifits that I derive from being married, but they go along with some pretty heavy responsibilities. The "in love" feelings tend to ebb and flow, bit that's okay, as long as the deep undercurrent of true love is always there, I'm happy

[BetrayedH]

I think I pretty plainly agree with your view. My marriage was never intended to be temporary. Marriages are not disposable once I "got bored." I had many years where I could have made a laundry list of things that "made me unhappy" in the relationship but it didn't change the fundamentals to me at all. The fact that we worked through those challenges is really what made it special to me and I intended to keep that up for a lifetime. It would have been a beautiful thing.

 

As for others' fundamental beliefs, I'll leave them to speak for themselves. I just know my ex-wife's fundamentals were certainly not the same as my own or they changed at some point. It's too bad really. Our marital problems could have been solved by a conversation, the same one she had with me after I discovered her affair.

[StormySeas]

I think that I've noticed that a lot of differences seem to reside in whether people have the fundamental belief that there is "the one" for them, or not. I am a rational person, who looks at the growing population of the world, and my interactions with men through the years, and firmly believe that there are many men that I could marry and likely be quite happy. I don't think my H is "the one", although he is certainly the one that I have connected with moreso than anyone else, and that's why he captured my heart and we got married. I think that particularly as we get older, now have a child, etc. that both my H and I continue to evolve. Where we once had 100% of the same interests, now we have slightly varied interests. And that's totally okay. I'm rambling a bit, but I guess that I think that my H and I were more likely to have our M exposed to an affair because neither of us believes that there is only one person in the world for us. While he loves me to the end of the earth, and clearly I must love him a whole heck of a lot to give reconciliation a try, I think our relationship may be slightly less strong than those that are just 100% convinced that they are with the only person for them.

 

At the end of the day, I don't think it's our view of love or relationships that determines whether an affair takes place. In my case, my H and I view love/relationships very similarly -- he had an A and I didn't. Why? Because he is a more selfish person, who has some self-entitlement issues that compromise his morals. I am much more selfless and understand right/wrong. That is the difference.

[frozensprouts]

I think that I've noticed that a lot of differences seem to reside in whether people have the fundamental belief that there is "the one" for them, or not. I am a rational person, who looks at the growing population of the world, and my interactions with men through the years, and firmly believe that there are many men that I could marry and likely be quite happy. I don't think my H is "the one", although he is certainly the one that I have connected with moreso than anyone else, and that's why he captured my heart and we got married. I think that particularly as we get older, now have a child, etc. that both my H and I continue to evolve. Where we once had 100% of the same interests, now we have slightly varied interests. And that's totally okay. I'm rambling a bit, but I guess that I think that my H and I were more likely to have our M exposed to an affair because neither of us believes that there is only one person in the world for us. While he loves me to the end of the earth, and clearly I must love him a whole heck of a lot to give reconciliation a try, I think our relationship may be slightly less strong than those that are just 100% convinced that they are with the only person for them.

 

At the end of the day, I don't think it's our view of love or relationships that determines whether an affair takes place. In my case, my H and I view love/relationships very similarly -- he had an A and I didn't. Why? Because he is a more selfish person, who has some self-entitlement issues that compromise his morals. I am much more selfless and understand right/wrong. That is the difference.

 

 

you may also be less prone to an affair because you have a pragmatic view of relationships...it sounds like you understand that it's normal for married people to have feelings of attraction to others, yet just because these feelings are there, it does not mean one has to act on them...

[Summer Breeze]

I got married and I meant every word of my vows with all of my heart. It was permanent and I was where I wanted to be and saw myself there all my life. I sincerely believe my xH meant every word of his vows when he said them too. Then he cheated. It didn't change my feelings on marriage. I've always hoped it would happen again but it hasn't and that's fine. I see marriage only as strong as the people in it want it to be and make it. It makes me sad to see people waste it. Yes that included DMM and it's something we talked about during the A and we are talking about now.

 

I don't think M is something bigger than any LTR with someone. Often when I say M I'm lumping in LTRs. I would go for the M route but that's me.

[MissBee]

For me, marriage is the ultimate romantic commitment that starts as a relationship between two people but also sets the basis for a partnership in life and foundation for a family (I would never marry a man I couldn't see as a good father for my children).

 

When I do marry, I'd like it to be once and I'd like to be in an exclusive, monogamous marriage.

 

That said, it's not something I'd take lightly. Even dating, these days, I have no interest in investing heavily in a man with whom I see no future. All relationships don't need to lead to marriage but I'm at the stage where I'm over dating for dating's sake and I'm looking for something more substantial. I can date casually but I'm not going to form an exclusive, committed relationship unless there is enough there where I want a lifetime partnership and family with this man.

 

I don't believe you can own people like chattel and I understand feelings and things can change. For me, what I require is being with me because you want to. I desire, transparency, honesty, open communication, consideration, and for you to tell me if things change. I also expect you to see our relationship as sacred and in doing so, you protect it, by not feeding attraction to others or putting yourself in compromising situations where things can go awry and I'll do the same.

 

There are people out there who don't believe married/taken people are off limits and in their minds once an "invitation is extended" then all is fair and some don't need an "invitation" at all but simply don't care. I'm not such a person. If you're married or otherwise in a R...FOR ME...you're a no-go...you can't invite me into anything. I won't let myself go there with you, regardless of how you feel about your current R. My decision to not engage is prior to you...that's my boundary and isn't dependent upon you happiness in your R. Since some people don't care, that's their right to feel that way, so I expect my husband/bf to be the one to shut down any advances and propositions from such women.

[Furious]

After reading a ton of posts on here over the years, I'm beginning to wonder if there is some kind of fundamental difference between the way other men/women, wayward spouses and betrayed spouses view marriage and romantic relationships..

 

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there does seem to be a difference...

 

( I know my husband's ex-other woman really viewed them differently, but she doesn't seem to be the "norm")...

 

how do you view marriage and romantic relationships?

( please be nice, no attacking or mean words please, as that doesn't accomplish anything)

 

Myself, I view romantic relationships as something special. It takes me a long

time to form a romantic bond with someone ( I'm slow to get started:laugh:), but once I do, it's a serious and not a thing to be taken lightly

>I also feel that while we can't control who we are attracted to, we can control who we form relationships with

 

> For me, marriage is a lifetime commitment that I made to my spouse, myself, my children , my family and society in general. There are many

bennifits that I derive from being married, but they go along with some pretty heavy responsibilities. The "in love" feelings tend to ebb and flow, bit that's okay, as long as the deep undercurrent of true love is always there, I'm happy

 

 

 

I think cheaters believe in "happily ever after", as said in the last sentence of a fairytale. Perhaps they confuse that "in love feeling" as true love.

 

Non-cheaters seem to be able to transition from being "in love" to "deeply loving" their spouse , and instinctively know the difference.

 

I remember Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch. Ironically, his second marriage also ended in divorce.

[MissBee]

I think that I've noticed that a lot of differences seem to reside in whether people have the fundamental belief that there is "the one" for them, or not. I am a rational person, who looks at the growing population of the world, and my interactions with men through the years, and firmly believe that there are many men that I could marry and likely be quite happy. I don't think my H is "the one", although he is certainly the one that I have connected with moreso than anyone else, and that's why he captured my heart and we got married. I think that particularly as we get older, now have a child, etc. that both my H and I continue to evolve. Where we once had 100% of the same interests, now we have slightly varied interests. And that's totally okay. I'm rambling a bit, but I guess that I think that my H and I were more likely to have our M exposed to an affair because neither of us believes that there is only one person in the world for us. While he loves me to the end of the earth, and clearly I must love him a whole heck of a lot to give reconciliation a try, I think our relationship may be slightly less strong than those that are just 100% convinced that they are with the only person for them.

 

At the end of the day, I don't think it's our view of love or relationships that determines whether an affair takes place. In my case, my H and I view love/relationships very similarly -- he had an A and I didn't. Why? Because he is a more selfish person, who has some self-entitlement issues that compromise his morals. I am much more selfless and understand right/wrong. That is the difference.

 

I don't believe in a "the one" either, in the sense of ONLY one. I think there is a pool of men out there that I could be extremely happy with. I think there are different pools, the pool of men who are okay will be larger than the group that are good matches and then GREAT/NEAR PERFECT matches is even smaller. I don't really intend to marry any who isn't in the great/near perfect pool of men .

[Ninja'sHusband]

I think that I've noticed that a lot of differences seem to reside in whether people have the fundamental belief that there is "the one" for them, or not. I am a rational person, who looks at the growing population of the world, and my interactions with men through the years, and firmly believe that there are many men that I could marry and likely be quite happy. I don't think my H is "the one", although he is certainly the one that I have connected with moreso than anyone else, and that's why he captured my heart and we got married. I think that particularly as we get older, now have a child, etc. that both my H and I continue to evolve. Where we once had 100% of the same interests, now we have slightly varied interests. And that's totally okay. I'm rambling a bit, but I guess that I think that my H and I were more likely to have our M exposed to an affair because neither of us believes that there is only one person in the world for us. While he loves me to the end of the earth, and clearly I must love him a whole heck of a lot to give reconciliation a try, I think our relationship may be slightly less strong than those that are just 100% convinced that they are with the only person for them.

 

At the end of the day, I don't think it's our view of love or relationships that determines whether an affair takes place. In my case, my H and I view love/relationships very similarly -- he had an A and I didn't. Why? Because he is a more selfish person, who has some self-entitlement issues that compromise his morals. I am much more selfless and understand right/wrong. That is the difference.

 

YES, Such a good point I actually always kinda hated the concept of "soul mate", and now I think it's just plain dangerous. Once you decide that the one you're with isn't your "soul mate" anymore...uh oh...

 

Gimme break. You make the best choice you can, and then do WORK to make the marriage last, for the good of ALL the family. There's a reason we are supposed to be monogamous, whether it's natural or not...I don't care. Keeping a family together with kids, aunts, uncles, grandparents is SO important. To break it all up for some silly hot fantasy luvin that will be temporary anyway is just selfish lunacy.

 

I'm thankful at least that my WW wasn't that far crazy...I really feel for people who find they are married to delusional spouses like that The affairs are so much worse. My WW and her OM never claimed to love each other even...and I believe they didn't intend to start back up...after..well...her getting pregnant...oops

[Spark1111]

I think cheaters believe in "happily ever after", as said in the last sentence of a fairytale. Perhaps they confuse that "in love feeling" as true love.

 

Non-cheaters seem to be able to transition from being "in love" to "deeply loving" their spouse , and instinctively know the difference.

 

I remember Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch. Ironically, his second marriage also ended in divorce.

 

uh, actually that was his THIRD marriage to end in divorce. I'm sure he was just as ecstatic when he married the other two.

 

MCs inwardly groan when one spouse claims ILYBIAMNILWY. It tells them that person has no clue as to what long.term love looks like. All relationships go through lime range, disillusionment, and lastly mature.

 

Most divorces take place when disillusionment sets in: about 4 to 5 years with 0 to 1 child, and it's sad to think these people will continually go on to chase lime range their whole lives.

[Realist3]

After reading a ton of posts on here over the years, I'm beginning to wonder if there is some kind of fundamental difference between the way other men/women, wayward spouses and betrayed spouses view marriage and romantic relationships..

 

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there does seem to be a difference...

 

( I know my husband's ex-other woman really viewed them differently, but she doesn't seem to be the "norm")...

 

how do you view marriage and romantic relationships?

( please be nice, no attacking or mean words please, as that doesn't accomplish anything)

 

Myself, I view romantic relationships as something special. It takes me a long time to form a romantic bond with someone ( I'm slow to get started:laugh:), but once I do, it's a serious and not a thing to be taken lightly

>I also feel that while we can't control who we are attracted to, we can control who we form relationships with

 

> For me, marriage is a lifetime commitment that I made to my spouse, myself, my children , my family and society in general. There are many bennifits that I derive from being married, but they go along with some pretty heavy responsibilities. The "in love" feelings tend to ebb and flow, bit that's okay, as long as the deep undercurrent of true love is always there, I'm happy

 

 

Very interesting question.

 

I don't know if there is necessarily a fundamental difference, I think it is more situational. StormySeas, brought up an excellent point about "the one" and I will take it a bit further. I agree, there are thousands upon thousands of women I could have made a marriage with, meaning that enough of the right things clicked between us to make that decision. That is a level of degrees. Person X may be 70, 80, 90, 100 compatible with your hopes in a spouse. I think the younger you are in assessing that situation can be highly skewed because you don't really know who you are yet. I also think no matter what the age it is very rare for both participants to be on equal footing of attraction. In most cases one spouse feels as though they are settling... at least somewhat. That is an inherent imbalance of power although not overt. That is where the situaltional part comes in. For whatever multitude of reasons two people find themselves at the point where they decide to make a go of it. I think the person that feels they settled will always be more prone to having an affair. I don't see it as a fundamental difference in the view of marriage and all that entails, but a feeling that they could have done better. When the inevitible problems arise within the marriage it becomes easier for that person in the relationship to possibly stray.

 

How do I view marriage? I look at it differently than I did 18 years ago. My view back then was of a lifelong committment. There was no divorce in my immediate family or even extended family. In that context I viewed it as forever. I still do, but I also realize that there will be hiccups, potentially some that may require a divorce. If I were single today, it would be much more difficult to find an acceptable spouse, because I am far more picky.

[turnera]

In most wayward cases, I think it's more that such people are selfish people. Not mean people, just selfish. Used to taking care of themselves first, before worrying about other people. Watch how they treat service workers and such.

[Furious]

I also think no matter what the age it is very rare for both participants to be on equal footing of attraction. In most cases one spouse feels as though they are settling... at least somewhat. That is an inherent imbalance of power although not overt. That is where the situaltional part comes in. For whatever multitude of reasons two people find themselves at the point where they decide to make a go of it. I think the person that feels they settled will always be more prone to having an affair.

 

I don't see it as a fundamental difference in the view of marriage and all that entails, but a feeling that they could have done better.

 

 

Are you saying you settled, are you saying that your wife is not attractive enough, that you feel you could have done better. Is that why you cheated?

 

Also, your OW's husband cheats on her, does he think he could have done better than her?

[Mr. Lucky]

Do you think that, in general, men and women tend to view marriage differently from either:

 

1). A day-to-day standpoint?

 

2). A commitment standpoint?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Realist3]

Are you saying you settled,

 

I felt I did, yes. But I settled for a very amazing woman.

 

are you saying that your wife is not attractive enough, that you feel you could have done better.

 

No, I'm not saying that at all. Looks are only part of any equation.

Is that why you cheated?

 

NO!!!! Not in the least.

 

Also, your OW's husband cheats on her, does he think he could have done better than her?

 

I can't answer that with any certainty because I don't know him, only what she has told me. She guesses that it is because he is a wealthy guy and can easily buy any young thing he wants. After knowing her for a good period of time I can sense that it might be other reasons. Except in bed she is not the most expressive person of her feelings. Very reserved. It is actions, not words. And I won't deny that it frustrates me at times.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I can remember some wisdom from Sparks a while back, that most cheaters are conflict avoiders and have low self esteem. I think additionally they have bad boundaries, are selfish, and a weaker moral drive.

 

I think part of my WW's motivation was being an atheist and having been told by her father, "There's no such thing as right and wrong, only consequences". Soooo if you can get away with it... I also think the rest of those qualities applied: conflict avoidance, low self esteem, selfish, bad boundaries.

 

She's not in the "soul mate"/"the one" camp even though I think that's a very real cause for a lot of extremely destructive affairs.

[Furious]

I felt I did, yes. But I settled for a very amazing woman.

 

 

No, I'm not saying that at all. Looks are only part of any equation.

 

NO!!!! Not in the least.

 

 

I can't answer that with any certainty because I don't know him, only what she has told me. She guesses that it is because he is a wealthy guy and can easily buy any young thing he wants. After knowing her for a good

period of time I can sense that it might be other reasons. Except in bed she is not the most expressive person of her feelings. Very reserved. It is actions, not words. And I won't deny that it frustrates me at times.

 

 

 

So, basically your theory about settling doesn't make sense.

 

You settled for an amazing woman, and you didn't cheat on her because she's not attractive enough.

 

You're OW's husband supposedly cheats on her because he's weatlhy and can afford to cheat.

 

Perhaps everyone chooses to stay married and cheat because no one really loves anyone.

[Realist3]

So, basically your theory about settling doesn't make sense.

 

How so? You made the assumption that settling ony has to do with appearance. I never made that case. I feel I settled for a few reasons, intellectual(even though she is exceedingly smart), her view of marriage, And a few other I don't feel the need to get into.

 

You settled for an amazing woman, and you didn't cheat on her because she's not attractive enough.

 

 

True.

 

You're OW's husband supposedly cheats on her because he's weatlhy and can afford to cheat.

 

Perhaps.

 

Perhaps everyone chooses to stay married and cheat because no one really loves anyone.

 

I don't know if I agree with that. I love my wife dearly. Have we grown apart over the years? Yes. I did what I did because it fulfilled a certain aspect I felt I needed.

[Realist3]

As I suspected, and as you now admit, the sex with your OW is just so-so. Hmmmm.....who are you going to blame that on, now? Is that the OW's fault too, just like there is something deficient in your wife that you believe "caused" you to have your affair?

 

Just as you suspected? Well, you suspected incorrectly. The OW has been the best sex I have ever had(she rocks my world), but our relationship is not based solely on sex.

 

I really don't understand why so many of you want to jump to conclusions. Is it because it fits within your preconceived notions?

[Decorative]

I can remember some wisdom from Sparks a while back, that most cheaters are conflict avoiders and have low self esteem. I think additionally they have bad boundaries, are selfish, and a weaker moral drive.

 

I think part of my WW's motivation was being an atheist and having been told by her father, "There's no such thing as right and wrong, only consequences". Soooo if you can get away with it... I also think the rest of those qualities applied: conflict avoidance, low self esteem, selfish, bad boundaries.

 

She's not in the "soul mate"/"the one" camp even though I think that's a very real cause for a lot of extremely destructive affairs.

 

As an atheist, I object to this.

 

Many, many atheists have a very clear sense of right and wrong and their impact on others. Atheism is a lack of belief in one less deity than a religious adherent. It's not a system that endorses saying "no right and wrong". Lack of belief.

 

It's not a license to be a selfish jerk.

 

I'm the atheist in my relationship , my husband the religious believer. He cheated. Not me. I would never ever extrapolate that his faith led him to cheat, so I wish you would step back from saying her atheism led her to it.

 

It's offensive.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Decorative

[turnera]

Some of you are so bitter that it clouds your understanding.

No. Just disgusted.

[Ninja'sHusband]

As an atheist, I object to this.

 

Many, many atheists have a very clear sense of right and wrong and their impact on others. Atheism is a lack of belief in one less deity than a religious adherent. It's not a system that endorses saying "no right and wrong". Lack of belief.

 

It's not a license to be a selfish jerk.

 

I'm the atheist in my relationship , my husband the religious believer. He cheated. Not me. I would never ever extrapolate that his faith led him to cheat, so I wish you would step back from saying her atheism led her to it.

 

It's offensive.

 

Sorry, it's just how I feel. Atheists have a distinct lack of a source for moral standards. I took part in a series of ethics discussions in college for a while. The prof who led it brought up confusing moral situation after confusing moral situation. There was never any resolution, most of the participants being atheists..they couldn't even begin to determine right from wrong. They had no source. It really really turned me off towards atheism. Sometimes we need some guidance and ground rules. I don't hate atheists, honestly I think sometimes they have a better view of "God" than theists do... I absolutely loathe the focus on miracle, magic, and supernatural BS that most religious people seem to have. For me it's all about morality and plain old spirituality. It may be offensive to you, but we'll just have to probably agree to disagree. I feel having some sort of set standard helps bring order to things. To me atheism is kinda like anarchy I guess, except with morality and spirituality. Too much chaos. There's a balance somewhere in there. I also believe in individual search for the truth.

 

Also my wife told me in no uncertain terms that she didn't believe in an after life and she wasn't going to waste time any time she had. It was a cop out, with the excuse that she only had so much time left and she was going to use her time for HER. Screw the family... yeahh....

Edited December 7, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[OpenBook]

how do you view marriage and romantic relationships?

 

Marriage is an unhealthy state of being over the long haul. It fosters resentments, codependencies, and warped ways of thinking like fungus in a petri dish, if you expect too much out of it. I think it would work a lot better if people viewed it as a business partnership.

 

Romantic relationships are the stuff of life. But by its very nature romance is not built to last. I think having that kind of insane happiness all the time would make us - well, insane.

[whichwayisup]

 

 

 

I don't know if I agree with that. I love my wife dearly. Have we grown apart over the years? Yes. I did what I did because it fulfilled a certain aspect I felt I needed.

 

On some level, wouldn't it have been so much easier and better for you to reconnect with your wife, put love, care and energy into her, instead of selfishly going outside of your marriage and wasting it on someone else? Aka your OW.

[Decorative]

Sorry, it's just how I feel. Atheists have a distinct lack of a source for moral standards. I took part in a series of ethics discussions in college for a while. The prof who led it brought up confusing moral situation after confusing moral situation. There was never any resolution, most of the participants being atheists..they couldn't even begin to determine right from wrong. They had no source. It really really turned me off towards atheism. Sometimes we need some guidance and ground rules. I don't hate atheists, honestly I think sometimes they have a better view of "God" than theists do... I absolutely loathe the focus on miracle, magic, and supernatural BS that most religious people seem to have. For me it's all about morality and plain old spirituality. It may be offensive to you, but we'll just have to probably agree to disagree. I feel having some sort of set standard helps bring order to things. To me atheism is kinda like anarchy I guess, except with morality and spirituality. Too much chaos. There's a balance somewhere in there. I also believe in individual search for the truth.

 

Also my wife told me in no uncertain terms that she didn't believe in an after life and she wasn't going to waste time any time she had. It was a cop out, with the excuse that she only had so much time left and she was going to use her time for HER. Screw the family... yeahh....

 

That is discrimination against an entire group of people, based on your misunderstanding of what atheism is, and your wife's twisted excuse of it.

 

As for your class of atheists? I am confused. Are atheists somehow sheltered from society- raised by wolves? No instruction at all on right and wrong? What planet does that happen on? I am going to call foul. And also ask what school you attended where the percentage of atheists was so high that it filled an entire class of morally depraved people that had no idea of right and wrong?

 

Come. On.

 

I cannot believe I am going to say this, but Hitler was religious. Look back through history at the greatest acts of destruction and harm. You'll find a religious attachment. Morals and a sense of right don't come strictly from religious instruction, nor are they insulation against wrongdoing.

 

Your belief in the supernatural cannot be the only thing holding a person back from doing harm in the world. Fear based action is not the way to go through life. Most religious people I know are good and kind and loving people, who wish to bring no harm to others. Same as the atheists I know. Most atheists I know have come to their decision through careful introspection, same as those who are believers.

 

Don't let your wife's horrible behavior cloud you to reason.

 

Sorry for the thread jack.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Decorative