Drawing a line through the past

[seeker2010]

I don't post much, I lurk. A short history:

 

Met my WH in 1995.

Became romantically involved in 2001; this was long distance with many short visits, and medium length periods of term living together with separations between.

Married in 2005; part of this was to make it easier to stay in one location, but that certainly wasn't The Reason for me. I married him for real.

D-Day 1: July 2010 - discovered online EA involving web cam sex

NC August 2010

D-Day 2: August 2010 - discovered frank offer in 2007 to ex-OW (from a relationship prior to me) to resume PA; she refused. Also discovered mail, phone records, FB records dating back as far as 2006 and carrying through right up to 2010, that indicate that he had been actively grooming other women online, and found questionable information to indicate that this perhaps extends as far back as our relationship existed.

 

Needless to say, I was devastated by both events. Had there been only the first D-day, I might have been better able to cope with it. Our marriage was struggling and we had lots of problems like unemployment and so forth. I could perhaps have seen that as a mistake.

 

But the second one that went on and on and on, culminating in his frank offer to have sex with a former OW that he was involved with before I got involved with him, and included him habitually trolling FB and flirting and grooming women in a very sexual manner, that just killed me. To be brutally honest with myself, when I saw that email, I felt my heart break. In that moment, I stopped loving him in a particular, special way.

 

I was deeply offended that, as far as I can tell, at no time during our early marriage did he ever 'take himself off the market'! What's worse is that I knew it at some level, and I was always really insecure about him, and he would make fun of me for it, and tell me that I was pointlessly jealous, and I would try so hard to not make *my* problem into his problem. Now I am left wondering which of our friends he has been involved with inappropriately, if any. I have asked him and he swears he has told me everything.

 

Since I found out, we've talked about what he did and how it started and how it continued; how disrespectful it was to me and to our marriage, and how selfish. He has shown remorse, he has committed to us as a couple, he does show that by action and words. He is really working on reconciliation. He talks about us, our future, how important I am, and how ashamed he is, etc, and is very loving and supportive, and so forth.

 

But I just can't seem to draw that all-important line and have that stuff be in the past and stay there. I periodically try to find out *every* detail, everyone he flirted with, everything they said. Every once in a while, I drop back into all that, and I am filled with rage and disappointment. He has always answered my questions, but in my heart of hearts, I still doubt he's told me everything. I just don't believe him. I just don't trust him. I know that he could and would be much better at hiding than he was before. When I am with him, I believe him. When he's away from me, I doubt.

 

But I refuse to investigate more because if I found anything more, so what? Are six flirtations worse than five? He's already *done* everything he could do, so does it matter if he did it 2 times or 3? Why do I seek after more and more and more confirmation that he was a total scumbag? I *know* that. It's not like it's really going to make a difference, and any detail I might find out I then have to do something with. I have been monitoring him off and on and he has done nothing at all since NC, but I just don't like what monitoring him does to me.

 

I don't want to leave him and I do want it to get better, I try, but at 18 months past the last D-Day, I can't get over that what had meant so much to me had obviously meant next to nothing to him. I feel like my entire romantic past with him has been nullified. I was not The One, I was just One of Many. He swears that this is now the past, and that he can't understand how he could have been so blind and so selfish, but he "didn't see the harm in it then". It wasn't until I caught him the second time and tore a strip off him that he started to look at it as a pattern of behavior. He is working hard on reconciliation and we are improving how we communicate and all that and overall, day to day, it's good, and I do love him, but I have this worm eating at my heart.

 

I try hard to live as if I never knew him before 2010. Although our relationship is much better now, and he acts and talks and works on commitment to me, and so forth, I feel like I met him yesterday. We have no past that I want to think about because if I do, then I am left looking at this stranger wondering if I would marry him again if he asked me. I know I am grieving for the husband I thought I had married (feels like he died) along with the marriage I thought I had (it died, too), but if that kind of thing isn't going to get better, I don't know if I can stay. Please give me your thoughts--both the good and the bad--especially people further down the road than I am. Thank you.

Edited February 17, 2012 by seeker2010

[drifter777]

My first thought is the timeframe. You talk about 18 months since d-day 2 like it should be enough time for you to "get over it". Believe me, your in the very early stages of recovery and it's going to take a lot more time.

 

You don't say anything about counseling - are you in IC or MC? If you are truly committed to trying to repair your marriage you need help from a professional. If your husband resists it's because he is ashamed of what he did (meaning he really needs counseling) or is happy continuing the same behavior behind your back.

 

Most of the BS's on this forum agree that "once a cheater, always a cheater" is not usually the case. However we all seem to agree that "twice a cheater" should make the BS stop and seriously consider whether a reconciliation is worth all the time and pain. It is probably an indication of the kind of man you married and he's not likely to change his spots.

[Kidd]

Sometimes an affair is a dealbreaker. As a BS, at first we are solely focused on salvaging the marriage, fixing what was broken, desperately trying to regain what we lost. It sounds like you have transitioned from that phase (acknowledging that your H is not who you thought you married and that your old M is dead). Reaching acceptance is a very difficult step. The next is forgiveness. I recently read a good book on the difference between the two, "How Can I Forgive You?" Ultimately, I don't think anyone here can help you decide if you can forgive and leave it in the past. That's very personal.

 

For what it's worth, I think a lot of it has to do with what he is doing today. I think you are correct that investigating his past indiscretions does little for you. But I suspect it is symptomatic of not being sure if you can trust him. You don't yet feel safe. You want to know if he is still a liar (even about "old" stuff). I see nothing wrong with investigating what he is doing today until you feel safe.

 

All that said, I found something about my WW's past affair that was still being covered up by lies today and that was the end for us. I cannot dedicate the rest of my life (again) to someone that will keep lying to me. My vote is that you keep moving forward with R as long as you are able, willing, and find no new reasons to leave. But in the end, if you reach the end of your rope, no one is requiring you to spend the rest of your life unhappy. I agree with Drifter that you're still in the middle from a time standpoint. Or maybe after 18 months, you've realized it is a dealbreaker after all. Not your fault; before judging yourself for insecurity, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by a-holes.

[seeker2010]

Thanks for your viewpoints.

 

I do very much have concern about the Error versus Character aspects of my WHs past. I think that is why I often feel compelling to check up on him, even though I know that he'd be far more successful at hiding this time. I would find out what he wanted me to know. If he wanted me to find out and I did, I would have to view that as an exit strategy. A coward's exit strategy, to be sure.

 

But given that this is the case, there have been a few times since D-Day when I have said to him that we should just call it quits. We don't have children. We're both independent professionals. We don't *need* one another in that sense. So he could go, just walk out the door. But he doesn't go. He chooses to stay. I try hard to focus on his choice to stay being a positive choice to be committed and to working it through.

 

Also thanks for the reminder that the time that has passed isn't so very long--it just feels like forever. :-$ And I have to admit I'm not all that patient. I am so tired of thinking about this pretty much every single day. I really am very resentful of the energy that I am losing to all of this, and I do wonder if I wouldn't be better off just leaving.

 

Sad to say, though, I'd have to deal with that together or apart. I doubt very much I could just dust my hands off and say, "Well, there, that's taken care of now!" Together or apart, this is part of life now. It will take me a long, long time to allow someone else into my life/heart, because I haven't fully dealt with this. I think dealing with it until I have worked through it is the best for me, now, and I need to do that within the relationship, not from a distance.

 

Thank you, kidd, especially for the book recommendation. I had been told of it before or read of it, but I wasn't in any kind of a place where I could even think about forgiveness and have any hope of getting anywhere with it. Perhaps now I can. I have ordered the book.

Edited February 20, 2012 by seeker2010