Are Betrayed Men More Vengeful Than Betrayed Women?

[Spark1111]

There is a thread regarding bunny boilers on another forum and it got me thinking about revenge.

 

Who is worse, women or men?

 

It seems to me that worst cases of revenge are perpetrated by men, not just what I have read at LS, but what I have seen IRL too. More violent, more humiliating, and they seem to receive more leniency in society and often in the courts too.

 

It's as if it is understood that a man who discovers his wife in bed with another man may very likely will blow the OM's brains out and receive a reduced manslaughter charge, because all other men think: "well, who could blame him?"

 

Yet, a woman steals a kitten form the OW's house and it makes national news in the UK. Are we kidding here?

 

So maybe the quote should be (forgive me, Shakespeare:confused:): "Hell hath no fury like a man scorned." And he may be likely to get off easier, too.

 

Thoughts?

[StoneCold]

I could say that because men TEND to be territorial they MAY react worse....as they see it as a breach of "territory"......MAY

 

 

But

 

 

you never know because the original phrasing of your closing phrase is "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"..... and that didnt just come out of nowhere for nothing...

 

So to answer your question.....who knows

[carhill]

I think vengeance is pretty much equal opportunity and that male vengeance trends more to the criminal. One only needs to peruse prison statistics to gain understanding of that propensity, or watch the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. That's what men do. Even for men who choose to be non-violent and comparatively passive, often our first 'go-to' thought is the primal end them with violence thought. It's part of who males are.

 

However, violent vengeance can be a woman's prerogative as well. Though not confined specifically to infidelity, this story illustrates that potential which exists in some women, seemingly pillars of the community. Life is a mixed bag.

 

I only have one personal anecdote and that was of a MW's H threatening my life. I merely responded 'your ranch or mine'. In retrospect, I think the MW 'got off' having two men fighting over her. We both were probably wasting our time and energy. Nothing came of it. He went off and had his own affair, evidently. Weird world. The foolishness of youth.

Edited November 10, 2011 by carhill

[Spark1111]

I could say that because men TEND to be territorial they MAY react worse....as they see it as a breach of "territory"......MAY

 

 

But

 

 

you never know because the original phrasing of your closing phrase is "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"..... and that didnt just come out of nowhere for nothing...

 

So to answer your question.....who knows

 

Being territorial of a partner does strike me as a more male-dominated trait.

 

Maybe women are more territorial of their children? But no, men are too.

 

And I do fear men are more prone to violence or settling their disputes with force.

 

The few DDays I know of IRL where the H was betrayed, involved either a threat or invitation to bodily harm. In fact, one OM was stunned the BH did not want to take a swing at him.

 

So, since it almost laughable, although I'm sure it does happen, that women engage in fisticuffs over a man, are women more devious in HOW they would exact revenge?

[Spark1111]

I think vengeance is pretty much equal opportunity and that male vengeance trends more to the criminal. One only needs to peruse prison statistics to gain understanding of that propensity, or watch the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. That's what men do. Even for men who choose to be non-violent and comparatively passive, often our first 'go-to' thought is the primal end them with violence thought. It's part of who males are.

 

However, violent vengeance can be a woman's prerogative as well. Though not confined specifically to infidelity, this story illustrates that potential which exists in some women, seemingly pillars of the community. Life is a mixed bag.

 

I only have one personal anecdote and that was of a MW's H threatening my life. I merely responded 'your ranch or mine'. In retrospect, I think the MW 'got off' having two men fighting over her. We both were probably wasting our time and energy. Nothing came of it. He went off and had his own affair, evidently. Weird world. The foolishness of youth.

 

Interesting Carhill, but not surprising.

 

If we have a serial cheater, we have major personality issues, and we often have major crimes of violence as a result. The anger and pathology that rages within them is easily projected onto their victim/spouse.

 

The crime annals are filled with these stories.

 

Maybe I am wondering about what I perceive as men taking the cheating of a wife much more angrily than a woman.

 

Maybe a woman's go to emotion is pain in discovering an affair? Maybe a man's go to emotion is anger.

 

And anger turning to violence is not a stretch. It is scary.

[Spark1111]

Not sure I agree here.

 

I was appalled at all the people cheering for that woman who severed her H's penis and threw it in the garbage disposal. If a man had caught his wife cheating and mutilated her genitalia, there would have been a lynch mob. But in general, I think it's more situational than gender-based.

 

By the way Spark, I don't think the UK story made news because of what the BS did; I think it was newsworthy because the MM was a MP. The OW that posted the story was obviously just pot-stirring. I haven't read any of the comments from UK readers on those stories, but my guess is that the general UK population was more supportive of the BS than the OW who posted the story was. Even the judge that sentenced her was pretty conciliatory.

 

To relate to your thread: what if a woman had been cheating on her husband for years, had a child with the OM... If the BH stole the OM's kitty cat, what would be the response to him?

 

OMG! jthorne! Knowing the tabloid journalism of the UK, I think editor's would have a field day thinking up clever headlines using the word "pussy.":lmao:

 

Do you think societally we have differing expectations of male and female reactions to infidelity?

 

Because I am beginning to think we do.

 

Raising a son and working in an environment of adolescents, hands down the worst, critically injuring fights were between two boys over a girl.

 

The very worst? One that ruined lives? Two close friends over the same girl. She had dated one for a long time, devastated him in the break-up, and promptly started dating his close friend.

 

I remember telling my son, no matter what your feelings may be, for your own health and safety, do not ever date a friend's x-gf without having a discussion with your friend first.

 

I think men just do not make a play for another man's woman or even x-woman unless a lot of time has passed and it would not lead to violence.

 

But teenage girls rarely have to walk such a fine line, IMO.

[notmel]

I think its usefull to view this issue through the lens of biological imperative. Desmond Morris wrote a best sellar in the 70's titled the naked ape. His basic premise was that we are just apes and we have 10,000 years of social veneer but we have a million years of genetic hard wiring. The consequences of infidelity and cuckoldry are different for both sexes. Men are hard wired to be more jealous on these issues because the consequences are far more devastating. You unnkowingly spend years and precious resources raising another mans progendy. For the woman the risk is abandonment. The fear of abandonment how ever is clealry not as great as the fear of cuckoldry as women are frequently self initiating abandonment (leaving their spouses or asking them to leave}.

[despicableME]

I think men are more prone to violence, but women are catty and crass. I remember a Seinfeld episode where Elaine boasts- "We just tease someone until they develop an eating disorder," when referring to the length a woman would go to be mean. An ass-beating heals with time, but the psychological ramifications of what Elaine was referring to last a lifetime.

[ThreeLegDog]

I think men are more prone to violence, but women are catty and crass.

 

I recently had occasion to have a business-related email with one of my stbxw girlfriends, whom I know was, and continues to be, instrumental in my WW's continuing PA. She closed the email with something along the lines of "I'm sorry about what's going on".

 

Wow... Just. Wow.

 

I had to sit on my hands for a few hours so as to not craft and send a scathing reply.

[Steadfast]

I think men just do not make a play for another man's woman or even x-woman unless a lot of time has passed and it would not lead to violence.

 

Right. A LOT of time.

 

Look, it's all very personal. Believe it or not, but men normally do not talk about such things as sex ...in detailed, intimate terms that is. Men (I think, not being a woman) are more insecure about their sexuality than women are. It's a very real fact that in some ways one's sexual partner knows more about them sexually than they know themselves. Not only their sexual abilities, but other physical details too...including preferences. In many ways it's all so humiliating; being compared -or worse- discussed.

 

The common response is to reclaim manhood with a thorough ass beating.

 

Speaking personally, it takes a lot of trust to open up and completely give myself to someone. I'm sure it is true for females too, but the reasons are probably much different. This is just another reason why infidelity is so hard to deal with. For men, dealing with a wandering female and her new partner -some guy out there- is bad enough, but to keep the betrayal in house? That's a whole different story.

 

I know it's a generalization, but on the whole I think women handle it better than men do. To threaten a man's masculinity is to attack his very core...his very existence. I don't think women carry that burden.

[Breezy Trousers]

I think men are more prone to violence. I read far more newspaper accounts of men killing their wives & their lovers than I do of women killing husbands & lovers. The latter seems to generate more media attention, though.

[frozensprouts]

I think men are more prone to violence. I read far more newspaper accounts of men killing their wives & their lovers than I do of women killing husbands & lovers. The latter seems to generate more media attention, though.

 

what's the saying about if somethig happens once it's a tragedy, if it happens a thousand times it's a statistic...

 

perhaps the times when a woman kills it's deemd more newsworthy because it's less common

[bentnotbroken]

Interesting thread Spark. I think it would have something to do with culture, age, mental health.....blah, blah. Interesting comments thus far.

[Mircea]

what's the saying about if somethig happens once it's a tragedy, if it happens a thousand times it's a statistic...

 

perhaps the times when a woman kills it's deemd more newsworthy because it's less common

 

"1 death is a tragedy, 1 million deaths is a statistic"

Iosif Stalin

 

I don't know if he was referencing his killings in the 30's or Hitler's Holocaust.

[MissBee]

There is a thread regarding bunny boilers on another forum and it got me thinking about revenge.

 

Who is worse, women or men?

 

It seems to me that worst cases of revenge are perpetrated by men, not just what I have read at LS, but what I have seen IRL too. More violent, more humiliating, and they seem to receive more leniency in society and often in the courts too.

 

It's as if it is understood that a man who discovers his wife in bed with another man may very likely will blow the OM's brains out and receive a reduced manslaughter charge, because all other men think: "well, who could blame him?"

 

Yet, a woman steals a kitten form the OW's house and it makes national news in the UK. Are we kidding here?

 

So maybe the quote should be (forgive me, Shakespeare:confused:): "Hell hath no fury like a man scorned." And he may be likely to get off easier, too.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I had this discussion with some male friends of mine. One said that "Men aren't meant to take cheating" ....!!!....implying that women were somehow more equipped to handle this kind of thing! It was offensive to my sensibilities...but I had to place it within a cultural context as well as a patriarchal context. My friend says that "Men are more possessive...women can more accept it and accept sharing...but don't you see how men go crazy if their woman cheats on them??? It's not fair but that's how it is"

 

That conversation (which can be problematized) espoused the same idea you're discussing, that in society it's almost accepted and expected that men cheat and women should know this and accept it to some degree, and we're more capable of forgiving and understanding a man's "needs" and that it doesn't mean anything (that's also what a lot of my male friends try to cite, that cheating has nothing to do with their woman and their love for her, it's just a "need", so she should understand this and not be too upset). Whereas, a woman cheating on a man is unforgivable.

 

My male friends also say that the reason men react so badly is because for a woman to cheat, they believe she has to be very dissatisfied with them emotionally and sexually and she has to really care about this other man...so it is a bigger insult, whereas, for them, they say they can cheat and not have feelings for the OW, it's just about a sexual relationship, they compartmentalize it...so (in their minds) they are not detracting from their primary relationship, while they believe their woman HAS to be detracting from the primary relationship if she steps out.

 

I definitely problematize these view points but these things are what some men really think and thus how they then operate.

Edited November 13, 2011 by MissBee

[Tayla]

MissBee, Thank you for sharing what male friends in your circle concur on. You are right, its problematic that such "men"tality still exist.

While it may clear up any confusion it doesn't dress the table as my grandma would say. Meaning its not pretty or even digestable from a human stance.

 

THe male discipline verses the female is often found in the foundation of how they are taught to cope with matters. Guys- physical. Girls- cry and throw tantrums. THose are still "culturally" acceptable. The more often and correct way to deter these "re-actions" is by maturing and seeing that they just don't bring positive results for the humans involved.

 

Earlier a poster mentioned the Lorenna Bobbit case and it was definitely a radical change as a society to review and watch the case unfold. I did not agree that justice was served by her going "free". YET "SHE' was portrayed as the victim and gosh how the tides have turned for so called "victims" who create violence and get to walk scot free. I sincerely was repulsed at the country I live in to see the cheering from Ladies on this verdict. Clearly this lady took justice into her own hands and was patted on the back for it. It was not her place to harm/injure another. Sadly there are ladies on here who side with her actions and that is the mixed bag of nuts I must accept in life.

[Mircea]

MissBee, who do these men cheat with in the end ?

 

I doubt it's with each other if they come from a patriarchal society. )

 

MissBee, Thank you for sharing what male friends in your circle concur on. You are right, its problematic that such "men"tality still exist.

While it may clear up any confusion it doesn't dress the table as my grandma would say. Meaning its not pretty or even digestable from a human stance.

 

THe male discipline verses the female is often found in the foundation of how they are taught to cope with matters. Guys- physical. Girls- cry and throw tantrums. THose are still "culturally" acceptable. The more often and correct way to deter these "re-actions" is by maturing and seeing that they just don't bring positive results for the humans involved.

 

Earlier a poster mentioned the Lorenna Bobbit case and it was definitely a radical change as a society to review and watch the case unfold. I did not agree that justice was served by her going "free". YET "SHE' was portrayed as the victim and gosh how the tides have turned for so called "victims" who create violence and get to walk scot free. I sincerely was repulsed at the country I live in to see the cheering from Ladies on this verdict. Clearly this lady took justice into her own hands and was patted on the back for it. It was not her place to harm/injure another. Sadly there are ladies on here who side with her actions and that is the mixed bag of nuts I must accept in life.

 

If this scares you, look into how many spousal abuse allegations are fake.

And also look at the lax definition of rape that the american feminists have now. Tbh, i think it makes fun of the real victims of rape.

 

In the West, men are the weak gender now.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Mircea

[Spark1111]

I think its usefull to view this issue through the lens of biological imperative. Desmond Morris wrote a best sellar in the 70's titled the naked ape. His basic premise was that we are just apes and we have 10,000 years of social veneer but we have a million years of genetic hard wiring. The consequences of infidelity and cuckoldry are different for both sexes. Men are hard wired to be more jealous on these issues because the consequences are far more devastating. You unnkowingly spend years and precious resources raising another mans progendy. For the woman the risk is abandonment. The fear of abandonment how ever is clealry not as great as the fear of cuckoldry as women are frequently self initiating abandonment (leaving their spouses or asking them to leave}.

 

Thanks for this. I had forgotton "The Naked Ape." Evolutionary biology is a newly burgeoning field today that supports Demond Morris' assertions.

 

I find it fascinating and have been reading up on it.

 

In a nutshell: Everything a man does is to get laid; everything a woman does is to attract an alpha male who will provide and protect and make her feel safe and supported as they nourish his progeny to maturity.

 

Everything else is intellectualization and romanticism.

[Spark1111]

I think men are more prone to violence, but women are catty and crass. I remember a Seinfeld episode where Elaine boasts- "We just tease someone until they develop an eating disorder," when referring to the length a woman would go to be mean. An ass-beating heals with time, but the psychological ramifications of what Elaine was referring to last a lifetime.

 

No different than grade school recess, huh?

 

I know men to do not share their feelings ad nauseum, if at all. Women do all the time.

 

We share our lives and our feelings with other women. And in the throws of that estrogen-fueled environment, I have no doubt we can be the more verbally vicious.

 

Lacking testosterone and really big bi-ceps, I guess that is how we do fight and lash out.

 

Maybe taking a punch is easier. Maybe men think that what we do is not fighting "fair."

 

We can and will mess you up with words. It's all we got.

[Spark1111]

I recently had occasion to have a business-related email with one of my stbxw girlfriends, whom I know was, and continues to be, instrumental in my WW's continuing PA. She closed the email with something along the lines of "I'm sorry about what's going on".

 

Wow... Just. Wow.

 

I had to sit on my hands for a few hours so as to not craft and send a scathing reply.

 

Yes, a punch in the nose would have been kinder.

 

While she may have felt empathy for your plight, obviously her greater sympathies lie with your WW.

 

You are a better man than I!

 

As a woman, I would have replied: "I love my spouse and my marriage and am devasted that she continues to :mad:boff X with what I suspect is your continued friendship and support.

 

So, since you are not a friend to me or our marriage, I cannot accept your sudden concern for my feelings. Please do not contact me again until your actions on our behalf match your expressed sentiment.

 

You are so full of it.

 

Sincerely,

Spark

 

See? This is the way women fight. I should teach classes in it to men.

 

Words and relationships....it's what we excel in so it is our best weapons.

[Spark1111]

If it's about violence i think overall men are the champions.

But when it comes to assasinating someone socially, destroying their self-esteem, really hurting the ego ... women easily take the cake.

 

Just look in the dynamic that men and women have in their circles of friends as early as 8-9yrs of age. Men will punch each other silly, but emotional scarring (the kind a vicious girl/woman does), takes yrs to get over.

 

Also, here's another food for thought.

As society (west especially) progressed and women got equality (it was about time too), our physical superiority means jackshaite in a society where law is respected.

Men abuse women (physically as most men usually do), this is punished and quite severely.

Woman abusing men physically, are punished less (double standard).

 

And the chances for a man to prove emotional abuse at the hands of a woman are slim to none. Not to mention the ridicule that such a man exposes himself to if he tries to.

 

We (men), are the weaker sex in the western world, and i'd bet solid money that women are more vengeful than men, supposing that such an impartial study were ever made in a society where the men are still taught that their genitalia is bad.

 

We do assassinate with words. Agreed.

 

I think you make some very valid points, and yes, there is a double standard.

 

But I do believe violence, both physical and emotional, perpetrated by men on women still statistically far outweighs the inverse of that.

 

If that ever reaches the 50% equality, the perceptions and laws and standards may change.

[Spark1111]

Right. A LOT of time.

 

Look, it's all very personal. Believe it or not, but men normally do not talk about such things as sex ...in detailed, intimate terms that is. Men (I think, not being a woman) are more insecure about their sexuality than women are. It's a very real fact that in some ways one's sexual partner knows more about them sexually than they know themselves. Not only their sexual abilities, but other physical details too...including preferences. In many ways it's all so humiliating; being compared -or worse- discussed.

 

The common response is to reclaim manhood with a thorough ass beating.

 

Speaking personally, it takes a lot of trust to open up and completely give myself to someone. I'm sure it is true for females too, but the reasons are probably much different. This is just another reason why infidelity is so hard to deal with. For men, dealing with a wandering female and her new partner -some guy out there- is bad enough, but to keep the betrayal in house? That's a whole different story.

 

I know it's a generalization, but on the whole I think women handle it better than men do. To threaten a man's masculinity is to attack his very core...his very existence. I don't think women carry that burden.

 

I think this is very honest and it rings true to me!

 

The number of men who wish they had larger equipment? 70%

 

The number of women who wish their man had larger equipment? 17%

 

That right there does speak to male insecurity. IMO. And I agree it does go to the core of their masculinity being threatened if their woman cheats.

 

I get that. Do you think it also makes them extremely vulnerable to a woman who desires them sexually?

 

I do. And that will always be the Achilles Heel of many men. And there are many a Spidey-Woman who know that and exploit that vulnerability by feigning sexual desire to entrap a man.

 

And I can see why violence could ensue.

 

When we are betrayed we talk to others because we heal through sharing and talking to others.

 

I can see where make pride makes the admission of his SO's infidelity much more difficult to share.

[Spark1111]

what's the saying about if somethig happens once it's a tragedy, if it happens a thousand times it's a statistic...

 

perhaps the times when a woman kills it's deemd more newsworthy because it's less common

 

I agree with you and Breezy. The crime annals are crammed with men who killed their woman; whether for money, or jealousy, or to go be with their OW.

 

But a woman does that and we can all name them: Betty Broderick and the character played by Glen Close in the movie "Fatal Attraction."

 

That movie spawned the term "bunny boiler."

[Spark1111]

 

I had this discussion with some male friends of mine. One said that "Men aren't meant to take cheating" ....!!!....implying that women were somehow more equipped to handle this kind of thing! It was offensive to my sensibilities...but I had to place it within a cultural context as well as a patriarchal context. My friend says that "Men are more possessive...women can more accept it and accept sharing...but don't you see how men go crazy if their woman cheats on them??? It's not fair but that's how it is"

 

That conversation (which can be problematized) espoused the same idea you're discussing, that in society it's almost accepted and expected that men cheat and women should know this and accept it to some degree, and we're more capable of forgiving and understanding a man's "needs" and that it doesn't mean anything (that's also what a lot of my male friends try to cite, that cheating has nothing to do with their woman and their love for her, it's just a "need", so she should understand this and not be too upset). Whereas, a woman cheating on a man is unforgivable.

 

My male friends also say that the reason men react so badly is because for a woman to cheat, they believe she has to be very dissatisfied with them emotionally and sexually and she has to really care about this other man...so it is a bigger insult, whereas, for them, they say they can cheat and not have feelings for the OW, it's just about a sexual relationship, they compartmentalize it...so (in their minds) they are not detracting from their primary relationship, while they believe their woman HAS to be detracting from the primary relationship if she steps out.

 

I definitely problematize these view points but these things are what some men really think and thus how they then operate.

 

I agree with you and this is perhaps the biggest double standard: That men can cheat and not have it effect their love for their SO, but few women cheat without developing feelings for the sexual partner.

 

I'm going to go out on a bigger limb here. I do not think most men care about the emotional aspect as much as the fact that their woman is sexual with another man.

 

That's the part that goes to the core of their masculinity and is the hardest for them to forgive.

 

And I have seen it here at LS and IRL. Men are the worst in handling infidelity. The anger is palpable with the male response of kick that sl*t to the curb!

 

Why? Why are the greatest perpetrators of infidelity the least likely to cope if it happens to them?

 

Now that's a double standard if ever there was one.

[Spark1111]

MissBee, Thank you for sharing what male friends in your circle concur on. You are right, its problematic that such "men"tality still exist.

While it may clear up any confusion it doesn't dress the table as my grandma would say. Meaning its not pretty or even digestable from a human stance.

 

THe male discipline verses the female is often found in the foundation of how they are taught to cope with matters. Guys- physical. Girls- cry and throw tantrums. THose are still "culturally" acceptable. The more often and correct way to deter these "re-actions" is by maturing and seeing that they just don't bring positive results for the humans involved.

 

Earlier a poster mentioned the Lorenna Bobbit case and it was definitely a radical change as a society to review and watch the case unfold. I did not agree that justice was served by her going "free". YET "SHE' was portrayed as the victim and gosh how the tides have turned for so called "victims" who create violence and get to walk scot free. I sincerely was repulsed at the country I live in to see the cheering from Ladies on this verdict. Clearly this lady took justice into her own hands and was patted on the back for it. It was not her place to harm/injure another. Sadly there are ladies on here who side with her actions and that is the mixed bag of nuts I must accept in life.

 

 

I forgot the third name, Lorena Bobbitt.

 

I am not condoning the verdict. I think she became a symbol of all the woman who have been abused or murdered or went missing while married to an abusive, cheating man.

 

I believed he and a friend drove and found the missing part and it was successfully surgically reattached and he lives a normal life now.

 

For every Lorena Bobitt, there are close to 85 Nicole Simpsons. Sad, but true.