Is it time to leave

[Big decision 66]

We have been married for 2 and half years. When we where dating things where pretty good, once we got married it was all down hill. My wife had rage issues to the point that there would be physical and emotional violence. Where the police would come. I never experienced anything like this before. In the beginning I use to placate her to avoid her explosions. Soon I was feeling empty and she was feeling ignored, which would feed into her rage we went to see a therapist in N.Y. He said my wife had rage problems and it would take many years of therapy. At that time we separated for two weeks to give us some healing time. When we got back together we went traveling for 6 months.

Here was the first time I gave into a major life decision to please her. Not that I did not want to go I did not think it was time to go for I had my own businesses and did not think I could run them from the other side of the world. Well to make a long story short my wife as of three months ago is no longer physically abusive and toned down her mental abuse. She is a very frightened women, she rarely admits when she is wrong, gives my cold apologies when she does, is hyper sensitive and reactive and most the time doesn’t even have all the information to form an opinion. I have sacrificed a lot for her. I am more adaptable to life and free flowing where she is extremely reactive and rigid. We have been seeing another therapist 20 sessions so far. she had stopped seeing her. Because it was not helping, she usually has excuses why treatments don’t work. While we were seeing her I realized I was co-dependent and had low self esteem issues, which I have been working on. I am thinking that maybe it is to move on. I am at my wits end and don’t know what else to do. The way I see the problem is maybe theirs too much water under the bridge, we have communication patterns that we are stuck in and she still has a lot of defenses from childhood. Any comments on my situation would be appreciated.

[whichwayisup]

I feel for you, and it is hard to deal with someone who has rage and is unstable emotionally like that.

 

The thing is, if she wants to stay married to you, she has to do her part in it...Which is continue with therapy. And even head to marriage counselling too with you. If things continue on the path you're on it will get worse. Especially with no therapy and medication (I take it the DR put her on some meds?) to help her. The issues she has from childhood HAVE to be dealt with so she can feel better.

 

You have given up alot, made the decision to stick with her...Yet her actions show that she isn't willing to give and do her part.

 

Talk to her and let her know how you feel.

[seeking_a_life]

decision-

i felt i need to answer this because my boyfriend feels the same way about me. he feels i am angry and unstable. i admit it but i know this and do really devote a lot of energy to healing and learning and trying to manage. i come from a dysfunctional family and have issues from growing up. i'm definately not always in control of my emotions. in my own mind i do know that i feel like my rage would quell if he would just truly listen to what i'm saying instead of the way i'm saying it. but i'm not sure about you guys.

 

so first to point out the good things , the fact that you made such a sacrifice to do something she wanted to do and drop your businesses and other endeavors to spend quality time for her was wonderful. you sound like a caring mate just from that gesture.

 

it's not cool that she refuses therapy. i have never gone there. i think truly in my soul i would lay all my faults and ego on the line if it meant becoming a better person.

 

but one thing from the post is that you hadn't mentioned any speficifs that set her off. maybe you know and just didn't feel like typing it. but if her rage becomes one big unpredictable blanket for you in your mind, you are invalidating her to a degree and maybe she just needs you to hear what she is saying? just thought i'd throw it out there. i don't know how much help it is but i really do hope some.

[Writewoman]

I'd love to give you concrete advice on this but I have some issues of my own in my marriage that are making me double-think any advice I feel tempted to give.

 

I did want to say that a close friend of mine (a male) has this same problem with his girlfriend and he is ready to take off too. It is a silent problem as a lot of men don't want to call themselves "abused." You are not alone.

 

If you do leave her, make sure you have a restraining order.

[EMJ]

Big Decision, you can't change her. She's a bully. The violence is likely to escalate if she thinks she can control you that way.

 

You have to protect yourself. I was married at a very young age to a supremely insecure man. He covered it pretty well while we were dating. Once we were married and I became pregnant the monster started to come out.

 

When I was 7 months pregnant he tried to run my car off of the road with his at 60 MPH. I was 19 years old at the time. My mother didn't believe me and would not let me move home. A few months later, he pointed a handgun at me. He took parts off of my car so I couldn't go anywhere. He never physically hit me, never left a mark, so people did not believe it "was that serious" This is much more common than people know.

 

It wasn't until I was walking away down a lonely road at 2:00 am with my baby and diaper bag and was picked up by the police and dropped off at my Mom's in the next town that anyone took it seriously. He even threatened to kidnap my daughter. These things happen everyday. People kill their partners, children are kidnapped by the "wrong" parent and lives are destroyed. Every day.

 

Now my family is pretty dysfuctional, which is part of the reason I ended up married so young, but no one has ever tried to kill anyone! That's as bad as it gets for sure.

 

Anyway, to make a long story short- leave, save yourself. Divorce her through the mail if you have to, I did. Get some distance and work on yourself, by yourself. Don't give her more opportunites to abuse you. If the police are involved, it's later than you think. Good luck.

[carmaenforcer]

OMG, like you I had never had to deal with someone like that in my past relationships but I swear you could have been describing my fiancee.

We are to get married this next month and I was a the verge of calling it off if she didn't get a hold on her what I call temper to be nice, you call rage and that better describes it.

I am older than her and am usually very good at analizing people and situations and knew after dealing with her rage and unstable emotions that she was dealing with some major issues that had nothing to do with me.

I thought I was a fairly comfidant person, but dealing with her I started feeling insecure as well.

 

I gotta go now but will come back to this tomorrow.

 

Good luck and know that there is hope, always...

[carmaenforcer]

OMG, like you I had never had to deal with someone like that in my past relationships but I swear you could have been describing my fiancee.

We are to get married this next month and I was a the verge of calling it off if she didn't get a hold on her what I call temper to be nice, you call rage and that better describes it.

I am older than her and am usually very good at analizing people and situations and knew after dealing with her rage and unstable emotions that she was dealing with some major issues that had nothing to do with me.

I thought I was a fairly comfidant person, but dealing with her I started feeling insecure as well.

 

I gotta go now but will come back to this tomorrow.

 

Good luck and know that there is hope, always...

 

I left off at there is hope always. I was in a hurry to leave work because my fiancée had an appointment with her brides maids to try on dresses and I had to get together with my dudes to get fitted for tuxes. Get this, she has an argument with her MOH because she didn't follow us to another mall to look at another store for dresses, and all because her boyfriend who is also my best man was hungry and wanted to eat at a restaurant that was close to the mall we were at. She got mad at her MOH because she hasn't really been to involved with anything, busy working two jobs. Supposedly she's working this hard to buy us a cruise that neither I nor my fiancée are interested in going on, incredibly nice gesture none the less, but my fiancée would rather she be involved in some of the wedding planning/prep stuff.

 

Anyway, she has this thing where she is nice to some people and really extremely mean to others. I have found that the people she is nice to, sometimes overly nice to are people that she is afraid will judge her and or just stop talking to her (people she will loose) and the people that she is overly mean to are all loved ones that she feels comfortable will not go anywhere and that will put up with her crap. This having been said, she asked that I call her MOH which is also her best friend and tell her off for her. I told her I will not do that and I thought it would be better if she dealt with her own friend. When I told her to "no" she flew off the handle with me and tried to get crazy. I tried checking her by telling her save that sh_t for the person that you are really angry with, not me. I end up calling her friend (MOH) up in hope to resolve this issue amicably but my fiancée didn't like how non-confrontational I was being and how I wasn't relaying her message as mean as she wanted me to and so after I get off the phone she turns her anger on me and tells me that she's "going to make me pay", what she means by this is that she's going to either withhold sex or talk to or go out with someone that makes me uncomfortable (and ex boyfriend a slutty girlfriend) something that she knows will hurt me.

Her own brother was witness to her overreactions and evilness and when we were alone asked me, "do you really want to marry that?"

Later she calmed down and came to find me in the mall to bring me to the dress shop to show me the cool dress her bride's maid found. And all was ok after this. Can we say psycho!!! I told her to check her self because I don't think she wants a groom waiting for her at the alter that hates her guts.

 

She has slapped me on more than one occasion, kicked me, pulled a knife on me and held it up to my neck and of coarse insults me constantly and never apolagizes or thanks me.

[Becoming]

Was your wife physically, emotionally, and/or sexually abused? That accounts for a lot of rage that seemingly comes out of nowhere. Until she deals with whatever is causing her extreme reactions, she won't get better. When she does, you will find a scared child underneath, as you allude to. And yes, with love and understanding she can change, just as you can too.

 

You unknowingly chose each other because this is what each of you has to work out and you probably need each other in order to do it. You need work on your codependence; she needs work on whatever's causing her to feel so unsafe. Your desire to appease her will not work. She needs you to stand up to her at this point, gently, firmly, and take control of an out-of-control situation that you want to run from (understandably!) because she really is out of control. And your issue is that you need to learn how to stand up. See how you chose each other to work on these things?

 

Your desire to HEAR her, to see the scared child within and understand and reassure that part of her will work over the long haul. But you need to let her know that you can't hear her when she's raging. You have to treat her like a child and tell her when she can talk like a rational human being, you'll listen to her, but until then, she needs to get herself under control. Agree to come back 20-30 mins. later (it takes that long for adrenaline to clear out of your system). The problem is, I bet she doesn't know how to get herself under control. This is why she needs therapy. But you can suggest that you take 20-30 mins. to figure out what's really going on to cause such high emotion and then come back together to problem solve as a team, not adversaries.

 

My husband and I have had similar problems. We stuck it out, have been working hard to get through our issues, and have been married 25 years and looking forward to at least 25 more, which will be more peaceful because of the work. Check out http://www.marriagebuilders.com. This is an invaluable site for marriage.

 

I suggest you also check out the threads here on LS on abuse.

That can help give you some broader understanding.

[jmargel]

To the OP and carmaenforcer..

 

I am in your shoes as well, however I am married to her. Like you she didn't exhibit these signs until after marriage. Carmaenforcer it will only get worse once you are married, trust me on this.

 

I considered myself a confident man until my relationship really got involved with my wife. Constant putdowns, sarcasm, disrespectfulness, lying.. These along with her getting physical with me as well are some of the things she has done.

 

It took a MC and 2 psychologists to enforce into me that I am not insecure nor does the problem lay with me. The problem is with my wife, just like the problem is with your wife & gf. It was the way they were brought up, they never matured. Your relationship like mine is in a 'parent/child' stage. We are the parent and they are the child. Notice how they react when they don't get their way? Like a child. It's because they don't have the coping mechanisms to deal with these situations.

 

And you are right with who she is nice & mean too. The more secure she is with someone the more she 'tests the ropes' and seeing how far she can push you. This is a sign of insecurity on HER part believe it or not.

 

My suggestion would be to give them the ultamatium. Counseling or the relationship ends. You can't be their counselor since they rebel against you as it is, plus you dont' have the knowledge to know what they are thinking. A psychologist does. You also have to put them in their place. When they are doing something you don't care for you must be DIRECT with them. "Stop, I've had enough of this". This seems to work good with my wife. When it goes beyond that then walk away. Don't give into the tempation of playing their immature games, otherwise you are just feeding them to act more like the way they are.

 

It will take a VERY long time to get the things inside of them out and to learn to deal with them the proper way. A MC is not the way to go here. They need to see a psychologist. The reason I say this is because my MC said for problems like this they are not equipped to handle such situations. Psychologists are.

 

You need to stand up for yourselves and be willing to walk away. If they ever threaten to leave you because you don't agree with a certain agenda they have, just tell them 'I hope you don't leave but that's your choice'. Whatever you do, don't beg them or rationalize their behavior. That just gives the OK for them to do it to you more.

 

If she were to go off with an ex, or do something intentionally to hurt you, then call it quits. I would recommend talking to them soon and mentioning this. Be distant from them, when they ask what is wrong just say 'I am doing some thinking'. This will worry them a great deal. It will get them to start thinking. Don't answer any questions they might hound you with. After a few days mention the ultamatium.

 

You won't be able to cure them, only they can cure themselves. You better nip this in the bud now or you will be dealing with a huge mess later. Trust me on this, I am living it.

[zenolith]

I have been married to a woman like your fiancee for 12 years. My patience and understanding has only made her more controlling and she seems to be so accustomed to this way of living that she can imagine no other.

 

I regret every day that I married her. Like you, I saw the signs before we were married and part of me thought the vows would change everything. They did, for the worse.

 

I would like to have told her, "Go to counseling and have this issue under control before the wedding, or there won't be one."

 

If you marry her without making her take responsibility for this behavior, PLEASE don't have children. They will probably spend a lot of their lives wishing they'd never been born.

[jmargel]

Carmaenforcer, you heard from a couple of us who have been down this road that you are about to imbark on. The only thing else I can say is this:

 

A wise man learns from other's mistakes; a fool learns from his own.

[slubberdegullion]

Don't stay, dude. Everything gets worse when the wedding ends, and will only get worse if you stick around.

 

My ex was occasionally abusive too; she'd smack me once in a while (I probably deserved it, though I never was physically abusive to her) and throw things in my general direction. She was a lousy shot; good thing, too.

 

I just took it because I was under the delusion that if I stayed and we worked on the marriage together, it would improve.

 

Tens of thousands of dollars later in counselling sessions, there was no improvement.

 

We divorced in 2002. Best decision I ever made.

[Kenyth]

A knife!? She threatened you with a friggen' knife!? NO WAY! DO NOT MARRY SOMEONE WHO WOULD THREATEN BODILY HARM TO YOU WITH A WEAPON! After you're married and both of you start getting braver, you may find yourself hurt or killed. Not to mention children! An idiot like that could harm someone, whether they really mean to or not!

[fever79]

It is funny, because your wife is like me in my relationship. I get angry and fly off the handle about things which arent even that critical. My boyfriend is loving and emotionally supportive. He will do almost anything to please me. However, I carry the financial burden in the relationship which causes me tons of stress that I am unable to handle, so I am distressed and lose control.

 

Because I am proud but unable to control my temper, it is hard for me to say that I am sorry because I am 1)ashamed of mistreating someone I love and 2)because a part of me truly feels that the anger I feel he is part to blame for.

 

Does she love you? I mean, does she really love you? I know that it can be hard to tell but this is very important because if she loves you but is unable to control herself it doesnt change the fact that she really loves you.

[jmargel]

Yea but it takes a whole lot more than love for a relationship to work. I wouldn't stay in a relationship just because she 'loved' me, especially if she flies off the handle and willing to do emotional/physical harm to me.

[Woggle]

Get out now. Nobody should be abused like that.

[Kaykay]

CALL OFF THE WEDDING! Get away from her. Far, far away...

 

Do you remain in the relationship because it's familiar? You need to be with someone who understands how to treat others kindly. Most of us act horribly sometimes; but from what you wrote, her apologies are half-a**ed. If she doesn't recognize her problem behavior (if she's not actively working to improve), it will only get worse.

 

As difficult, sticky, uncomfortable it may be---- end your relationship with this woman!

 

Please keep posting... I'm sincerely concerned!

[carmaenforcer]

Dang.. I had gone to other threads, never got e-mail notifications to the fact that you guys where posting on this one so I had almost forgot about it. Then in looking up a threat I lost on this one guy that was dealing with a cheating partner and I wanted to help him but my computer kicked me out, I ran across this one again and read your guy's posts, some in direct response to my situation.

 

First off, thanks Jmargel, Zenolith, Slubberdegullion and Kenyth for your advise, stories and concern.

I Agree that it's best to learn from others mistakes and not have to go through it your self to learn form it, this is kind of the reason I got on this forum to begin with.

 

I consider myself to be a fairly intelligent man and have figured out a few things on my own. I stand up to her now and that seems to work for me as well. After telling her that, if she didn't get her act together I was seriously rethinking continuing a relationship with her, she has been correcting her behavior, opening up to me more and more about her past and in doing so helping me deal with and understand her. Her best friend tells me that my fiancée does love me with all her heart, but as some one stated on this thread, sometimes love just isn't enough. People need to show respect to the other person and consider their feelings.

The rage thing is still there even though she is aware of it and she still tries to justify her right to be angry all the time. The validity of your feelings is not in question, it's your reaction that need to be addressed. I soon will travel the path that some of you are on or have been on and I would be lying if I said I wasn't afraid.

You know I think what the problem in this sort of situation is, the fact that it's not always all bad. Can't speak for others but I at least, a having to deal with psychotic episodes, the key word being "episodes". We can go weeks sometimes without one and then one day.

I have fallen in love with the sweet, kind loving person that is there 80% of the time, it's just the demon that is there the other 20% that I hate.

I will keep posting examples on this thread for those of you that are dealing with this type of thing.

[Ladylay]

She has slapped me on more than one occasion, kicked me, pulled a knife on me and held it up to my neck and of coarse insults me constantly and never apolagizes or thanks me.

 

Sorry wtf why are you still there?

Get out now.