Sexless Relationship

[sadscorpio]

Hello!

 

Quick Background: I met my boyfriend by chance on a service tech phone call to his company in fall of 2013. We quickly fell in love via email, phone and video calls. We met in person in spring of 2014, had a steamy long distance relationship until I moved across several states to a place I had never lived & new no one but him to be with him in May of 2016. Surprise, I got pregnant two weeks after moving in with him, a second child for me and a completely shocking first child for him, a man in his 50s who thought he was infertile (he's 16 years my senior).

 

Within a couple days of me announcing my pregnancy to him, the passion died a sudden death. I can pinpoint the exact moment. When he would come visit me, we would have marathons nightly for 7-10 days, and we had passionate phone calls, texts and video calls for effortless continuity in between. Living with him, months went by with nothing. I tried everything I could think of to keep the passion alive and finally gave up in my late third trimester. We had sex only 3 times after I got pregnant in 2016, none in 2017, only 5 times in 2018 and only once this year, in April. Zero times were initiated by him, the last 5 times were after I caught him lying/cheating & at least half of those times involved me crying before or after because I felt like crap.

 

I'm a stereotypical Scorpio - I want sex every single day barring serious illness, so this is literally over a thousand rejections to me. This has been a hell designed specifically for me, and it's broken me countless times. I've felt depressed, heartbroken, lonely (first time in my adult like, as I'm an introvert), rejected, grotesque, resentful, enraged, the full spectrum of negative emotions. My self esteem was nearly destroyed. I often felt worthless.

 

I have exboyfriends & girlfriends clamoring to be with me again, telling me I am beautiful, best sex they ever had, the one that got away, that I ruined them for all other women and then this... nothingness.

 

His list of excuses is ten miles long. Everything from plain old being tired to using the fact that I am sad about what has transpired as his excuse: he feels too guilty to look me in the eye, much less have sex with me. What????

 

That "guilt" didn't stop him from nearly having sex with our next door neighbor, an act that has caused us insane chaos in recent days due to her lashing out with various accusations against him. I caught them the day they were to finally physically consummate their years-long flirtations and exhibitionism. He says he did it because it was "wrong."

 

He has recently decided he is "broken" and that he doesn't know what is wrong with him. He has lied to me so many times. The even more ridiculous part is that I offered him an open relationship over 100 times in the past three years, so he actually never needed to cheat. Preserving our family was important to me, so I thought we could both satisfy our needs elsewhere, but he would explode with anger and indignance, going so far as to accuse me of being shallow and sex being the "end all be all" for me, which it isn't for him, so lofty and deep as he is, the man who cheats with the neighbor and lies about flirting with women online behind my back. Again, unnecessary if he was just honest with me about it.

 

He doesn't want me, but he doesn't want anyone else to have me. He proclaims he wants monogamy, but it's chastity he requires. I have felt like I am dying inside for the past 3 years, and I finally no longer want him. When he does his ritual pawing at me while a bit tipsy every 6 weeks or so now, I feel vaguely violated, uncomfortable and nauseated.

 

I'd be fine to be roommates and coparents, or, again, be open (!!!!!) and honest, but he refuses the latter and becomes extremely depressed and even expresses suicidal ideations if I mention the former.

 

I don't know what to do. I have a son, now an adult, who was unable to have his father in his life (psycho dad, unfortunately), and I saw how much it hurt him, so I am trying my best to preserve my daughter's wonderful relationship with her father (indeed, the ONLY reason I am still here, as I would have moved out within weeks of things going sexless had I not been pregnant).

 

Moving out would financially devastate him, as it would cost him $18,000-$22,000 per year and we are all just getting by. Things would be about the same for me. I make just enough for myself & the kids. I have structured things financially so he pays for the house repairs, we split the bills down the middle, and I cover food, clothing and almost all other needs for my son and daughter without his help. I also have to wait for a housing opportunity to make it in the place. I'd be fine back home, but here... the cost of living is insanely high, so I am on various housing lists & have applied for an apartment that is income based near here.

 

We have plans to buy a new house as a family, somewhere away from that horrible neighbor woman who recently tried to destroy our lives by making false claims to DCF about him, complaints to the police, health department, you name it. The stress of this entire situation has screwed me physically, so I am trying to get my personal wellness back on track. But honestly, I just want to go home. I know in my heart and my mind that moving my daughter states away from him is the absolutely wrong move, but I am miserable here.

 

I don't understand how he could screw this up. To this day he says that I am "easy" "wonderful" "amazing" and "angel" a "saint" and he claims he loves me more now than he did before I moved in. ???>????????

 

I feel like I am being gaslighted because he swears he IS attracted to me, that none of his behavior of ignoring me, both socially and sexually, is indicative of his true feelings.

 

His exwife and him were also sexless for over 5 years, but he has blamed it on her cheating on him. She claims otherwise, but she is a bit of a storyteller (I have caught her in numerous lies), so who knows who to believe. She has a good heart, but... yeah. He says both his exes have told him the issue with feeling ignored, with feeling like they must be the most uninteresting people on the planet to him, lonely, etc.

 

I think he might be a bit on the spectrum. I myself score a 37 on the Autistic Quotient but have never been diagnosed, and I see a lot of my own traits in him, albeit magnified beyond belief - is this what I am like to normal people??? My friends say no, LOL, so that's good at least.

 

Any feedback welcome.

 

To prevent these questions: physically, his equipment works fine & the sex died before I gained a single pregnancy pound.

 

Thank you for reading!

[BaileyB]

Some pretty big red flags here OP.

 

Here, we have a guy who has a previous failed marriage (sexless relationship), caught literally “in the act” of cheating with the neighbour, and I’m going to assume another neighbour who felt strongly enough to call DCF and the police to make claims against him... Furthermore, he becomes depressed and suicidal when you talk about making changes to your relationship...

 

When you connect the dots, he doesn’t seem like a very good husband and this doesn’t sound like a very healthy relationship for you OP. What’s more, it doesn’t sound like a very healthy home in which to raise your daughter...

 

Sometimes, you have to take a step back and look at the whole situation from another perspective. I know, you want your daughter to have a father but she could have that even if you divorce your husband. Other than the finances, it doesn’t seem to me like it’s in anybody’s best interest for you to stay together...

Edited July 7, 2019 by BaileyB

[Mr. Lucky]

Any feedback welcome.

 

OK - why?

 

sadscorpio, you seem intelligent, thoughtful and reasonable. I'll take your assertion at face value that you're attractive. So I'll ask again - why?

 

Why accept the lies?

Why accept the rejection?

Why accept the betrayal?

Why accept the gaslighting?

Why accept the dishonesty?

 

As Bailey points out, why raise a child - or two - under these conditions?

 

Couples can recover from an affair if both are committed to doing the hard work. Your partner only seems committed to his own pathology.

 

Can't help but wonder why you titled your thread "Sexless Relationship"? Intimacy seems low on your list of problems...

 

Mr. Lucky

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Man this one is challenging.

 

 

I can't imagine the outlook of a man who thought he was infertile upon the surprise of your announced pregnancy.

 

Is there any chance that heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee senses a possibility that the child isn't his?

 

 

I really liked the first line, about how you met, as that sounds so "21st century".

[sadscorpio]

Hi BaileyB...

 

I'm new here & the reply function is a bit of a mystery to me, but thank you for your thoughts. You're right; this definitely isn't a healthy environment. I keep hoping we can work our way there, but I don't see a way in which I get any of my needs met, even though he has recently become willing to try therapy (individual and family). I am thankful we are not married, so it's not as complicated legally as a divorce; I'm fearful of shared custody, in addition to the financial complications, so that is a big part of my hesitation. I don't think he would push for more than I would want to give. He's too oblivious to have our girl for overnights until she is old enough to speak clearly her needs, but he is good with her for a couple hours (as long as I provide everything she needs, ie, snacks, water, instructions on potty/pull ups/wipes, etc).

 

It's the same neighbor, not a different one, just to clarify.

 

I value the outside perspective. I definitely feel like I am too close and bound up in this situation to see it clearly. I feel like I need to have tried everything.

 

Thank you for your response! It's eye opening to have that type of assessment of this chaotic life.

[sadscorpio]

Is there any chance that heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee senses a possibility that the child isn't his?

 

LOL! Nope, no chance at all. She looks so very much like him, and he never even had that thought. Thank you for the laugh, though! I need all the humor I can get!

Edited July 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[sadscorpio]

OK - why?......

Can't help but wonder why you titled your thread "Sexless Relationship"? Intimacy seems low on your list of problems...

 

I suppose the title is because I feel, however unrealistically, that every other problem could be worked on with therapy. His complete and utter lack of desire & complete and utter refusal to try an open relationship/polyamory to supplement this void cannot be fixed, I truly believe, and I cannot live this way. Three years has been bad enough. I can't be mentally healthy like this. Even before I found out he cheated (in August of last year), I was completely miserable.

 

I definitely do not, have not, and will not accept any of those things.

 

Why would I try to make this work? For him & my daughter. I think we could have a wonderful family for her to grow up in. Maybe it's due to witnessing my son, nephew and older sister being devastated by their lack of a father. I can't count the number of times I saw them weeping at feeling abandoned & intrinsically unworthy of their father's love and attention. I don't know how this will work if he and I are not together. My friends tell me it's not my responsibility to make sure she has her father in her life, but I feel it is. I would have done anything for my son to have the relationship with his father that my daughter has with hers. I sometimes wish I could accept and ignore all those things, but being lied to is not something I can endure & neither is having a sexless relationship (and I have never and will never cheat.)

 

He definitely feels contrite and hit rock bottom with recent events, and at least is no longer saying he is "tired of feeling guilty all the time" (never in my life have I heard someone utter these words before him).

 

It seems pretty hopeless, doesn't it?

Edited July 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[sadscorpio]

Side note: I wrote my original post while my daughter was running around singing "Let it GOOOOOOOO" and it wouldn't let me correct some typos. Please forgive the typos!

[BaileyB]

Two questions for you. Food for thought...

 

Your daughter has a father that is present in her life, but is he really a good father? You state in your post that he would not be capable of providing care for her for more than a few hours - not over night if you separated. You have to provide instructions re: snacks, water, toileting. I’m sure that there is love and perhaps they play together, but I’m not sure I call a man a “wonderful father” if he is not capable of meeting the child’s basic needs for more than a few hours at a time.

 

And, why do you think that opening the marriage would be the answer to all your problems? You have a jealous man who has told you he does not want you to have another relationship with another man. Fair enough. But, you have a relationship that is not secure, the communication is poor, you have issues with trust... not generally the kind of relationship that would survive an open marriage. People “in the know” on this site will say that open marriages only work when the relationship is strong, trust and communication is good, and both partners want to explore their sexually in a mutually agreed upon way. If I had to predict th future, I would say that should you find another partner - you are likely to develop feelings for this person because you are starved for love and affection. And that, would create so many more problems for your marriage...

 

If you are not happy in your marriage, end it. Don’t “open” your marriage - what you are truly asking for when you ask to open your marriage is permission to cheat on your husband. Save yourself a whole lot of grief and file for divorce. Then, you are free to date whomever you chose. You daughters relationship with her father will not end - as long as he is committed to being present in her life as a parent. And if it does, well then... what exactly are you accomplishing by staying in a miserable marriage?

Edited July 7, 2019 by BaileyB
Spelling

[Mr. Lucky]

I suppose the title is because I feel, however unrealistically, that every other problem could be worked on with therapy.

 

Every other problem? His cheating? His failure to take responsibility for it? His manipulating you to think you're responsible? His inability to provide care for your daughter?

 

Boy, do you have a high opinion of therapy. Understand it's a process that reflects the effort an individual puts it - kind of like a relationship.

 

You don't seem to have particularly realistic expectations...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

Are you really going to stay with this pathetic excuse for a man? What do you see in him? You even caught him cheating on you. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't understand why you are with him...

[salparadise]

Your daughter has a father that is present in her life, but is he really a good father? [...] I’m not sure I call a man a “wonderful father” if he is not capable of meeting the child’s basic needs for more than a few hours at a time.

 

So call him whatever you like, but don't discount the fact that he is there for his daughter and they have a good relationship. This is important. You're taking the one thing that isn't broken and trying to talk OP into being dissatisfied and unappreciative. I commend OP for understanding what is broken and what isn't.

 

And, why do you think that opening the marriage would be the answer to all your problems? [...] not generally the kind of relationship that would survive an open marriage.

 

You seem to know all the answers, but it would help to first consider the questions. They are not married!

 

 

@sadscorpio

This relationship is done. Resentment has set in, and the things that ruined it are not fixable. There is only one way you're going to have any peace, and that is to move out, or move him out.

 

A switch in his head was flipped when you got pregnant. It's called madonna-whore syndrome, wherein a man loses sexual interest when she becomes a mother figure, or when a relationship normalizes and loses the dirty, lusty, forbidden-fruit aspect. It's deeply seated in his psyche. He was lusty for the neighbor because it was forbidden. You say he may be on the spectrum, but he had what it took to get it started and maintain intensity until you got pregnant.

 

Counseling isn't going to change anything now. He's lied to you many times –– the trust and positive regard are gone. He is not sexually attracted to you, you're resentful, you're ready to get on with your life. You just need to make the decision, and plan and execute an exit strategy. Do it such that you protect the father/daughter relationship. Yes, finances are hard but you'll adjust. Nothing is worse than being in a dead relationship where the trust is gone. You just need to stick a fork in it.

[BaileyB]

You seem to know all the answers, but it would help to first consider the questions. They are not married!

 

Oops. Doesn’t change the point of my comment, bringing another person into an already failing relationship isn’t likely to help anything...

[schlumpy]

His complete and utter lack of desire & complete and utter refusal to try an open relationship/polyamory to supplement this void cannot be fixed

 

Polyamory? Open relationship? Unusual personal choices for a self-proclaimed introvert.

 

Best Wishes

[salparadise]

Oops. Doesn’t change the point of my comment, bringing another person into an already failing relationship isn’t likely to help anything...

 

True. But she's not even talking about that. She's talking about going separate ways for sex, but trying to maintain the living arrangement. She doesn't even like the guy; you can hear it in her tone. And he isn't interested in sexing her (yet he's chasing the neighbor).

 

This is about as done as it gets short of screaming and throwing stuff at each other. She's just having difficulty coming to terms with it. Counseling can help with that. OP needs to arrive at these realizations though... we can't do that for her. A good counselor, as opposed to telling her what to do, will ask the right questions and challenge irrational/emotional reasoning to help her arrive at it in her own time, and make decisions with confidence and conviction.

 

Life sure is messy sometimes. I'm sorry you're having to go through this OP. You don't need to feel angry at him or ashamed of the relationship failure. You do need to accept what is and make necessary adjustments. Preserve the coparenting relationship and let go gently, with compassion... at least that's the way I see it. I honestly believe counseling will help you.

[sadscorpio]

I'm on my phone, but I will try my best to respond to everything!

 

Thank you all for your input, especially the compassionate responses!

 

As an introvert, I do best one on one and feel uncomfortable at parties and with social situations where I have to interact with multiple people. I feel satisfied with a couple close friends who I see once a week or so (something I have not had since moving here, sad to say).

 

Because of my high sex drive, I am happiest to spend intimate time with a lover daily. I don't want a whole gaggle of lovers or sex parties, so being an introvert and having an open relationship are not mutually exclusive.

 

I'm not sure if I would develop romantic feelings for a new lover; I went 16 years between being in love, despite having sexual partners, so it's unlikely, though of course anything is possible!

 

Yes, I have a very high opinion of therapy, having seen how helpful it has been for my son. Of course, it does take a lot of work, and I don't know if he has the drive or focus to put in the effort since he definitely veers toward neglectfulness.

 

Yes! The switch. I feel I was a fascination of his before I got pregnant. He is a musician and focuses on music and musical equipment to the exclusion of all else, with the exception of other temporary laser focused interests that he becomes obsessed about for days, weeks or months. I didn't know what it was like NOT to be one of his obsessions, so it was quite the turnaround. I know he loves me, but his focus is elsewhere. He is single minded to an extreme.

 

He has said that he doesn't know what is wrong with him, why he can't go there with me anymore. When I caught him about to go to the neighbor (open laptop and my intuition did him in), he - after the 36 hours it took me to get a confession of the obvious truth out of him - said it felt "cheap" to have sexy conversations with me. Mother of his child me. So, yes. The switch went off.

 

I love him and will always be his family, but of course there are many behaviors - and lack thereof! - that I hate. My son has said of my boyfriend, "He's the most frustrating person I've ever been around because he's not a bad person, but yet, but yet!!!"

 

He's very odd in many ways, which I accept, but the lies, cheating and nothingness between us I cannot.

 

I'm struggling with this because I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to rip our family apart. I feel like I have to choose between myself and our family, and I do feel angry about that. I have proven to myself that I can't make the selfless choice because it affects my mental health and behavior in ways that are unacceptable, but still I know this will financially and emotionally devastate him.

 

Yes, I need to stick a fork in it. I am an optimist, but I think y'all are correct that there is little hope.

 

He is wonderful with our daughter - kind, attentive, gentle, doting. His love for her shines from him with radiance and warmth. Yes, he's not great at the details, and she isn't demanding with him enough to remind him of her physical needs. My son often steps in when I am working (from home in the next room but must be undisturbed) and brings what she needs. I think that will get easier as she gets older.

 

Unfortunately, his nature of being off in his head leads to neglecting not only the needs of those around him, but himself too; he forgets to eat, doesn't exercise, etc. He has routines for showering and such, so he has good hygiene, but he almost never cleans and is very forgetful.

[preraph]

He has preexistent problems about sex and fidelity. Maybe he's one of those guys who thinks a woman who has sex is not bespoiled and he can no longer be attracted to the ruinous decay that is a sexually active woman. Or maybe he can only have sex with women he doesn't care about so that he doesn't care if then they are ruined by him having sex with them because he's not staying anyway. All I'm saying is whatever is sick with him was there before you were. I doubt he was ever infertile, as he told you. What he was is sex-avoidant, and don't know if it's all mental or all physical or some of both.

 

But I wouldn't use your daughter as an excuse not to get out of this relationship. She will still have him 50 percent of the time. My concern would be if you are as sexually needy as you say, you can't be having new men over mixing it up with your kids. You just can't. But as long as you insist he take joint custody and you each have the kids three and a half days, then you will also have three and a half days to see men when they're with their father. If you have more than one child father, that will be harder to coordinate.

[loversquarrel]

OP, I'm just curious - with your self proclaimed high sex drive (to the point of mentioning opening your marriage), what did you do for sex during the two years you were in an ldr?

[sadscorpio]

He has preexistent problems about sex and fidelity. Maybe he's one of those guys who thinks a woman who has sex is not bespoiled and he can no longer be attracted to the ruinous decay that is a sexually active woman. Or maybe he can only have sex with women he doesn't care about so that he doesn't care if then they are ruined by him having sex with them because he's not staying anyway. All I'm saying is whatever is sick with him was there before you were. I doubt he was ever infertile, as he told you. What he was is sex-avoidant, and don't know if it's all mental or all physical or some of both.

 

But I wouldn't use your daughter as an excuse not to get out of this relationship. She will still have him 50 percent of the time. My concern would be if you are as sexually needy as you say, you can't be having new men over mixing it up with your kids. You just can't. But as long as you insist he take joint custody and you each have the kids three and a half days, then you will also have three and a half days to see men when they're with their father. If you have more than one child father, that will be harder to coordinate.

 

I did this single mom thing with my son already. He's 18. I never had random men over "mixing it up." High sex drive does not equal stupid or promiscuous. I am not dealing with sex addiction, just a high sexual appetite. I had years of self imposed celibacy for the purpose of avoiding any possible drama around my son. Deciding to be celibate is completely different than being in a "monogamous" relationship which becomes sexless against one's wishes. It's the difference between intentionally, safely fasting and starving; I have done both, and it's comparable. That may seem dramatic to someone who isn't me, but being with my boyfriend the past three years has been like having a delicious buffet in front of me, being ravenously hungry and unable to eat one bite, except worse, because at least the buffet isn't a human being who claims to love me while rejecting me and refusing to give me even one tiny bit of what I need. I can't even take care of my own needs without crying or feeling pathetic, so, yeah. This is horrendous. I have felt trapped, like I am starving, dying, withering inside. If someone hasn't been through it, I don't think they're likely to truly understand.

 

Furthermore, I have had complete sexual fulfillment in all my past relationships, including the first half of this one, so it's not that hard to find, at least not for me. All but one of those relationships were monogamous, and my last open relationship was almost 20 years ago.

 

I think you're right about him being sex-avoidant. He definitely cared about me when we were having sex, but I think it shut off when I became the vessel of his child, like the other person said. I know it did. And it never turned back on.

 

My daughter will absolutely NOT be with him half the time. He will see her as much as he does now, for about 1-2 hours per day, a bit more on weekends. There is no need for that to change & he couldn't handle that with his work and band schedule anyhow, plus he has no idea how to care for her without help. As she gets older and can take more care of herself & his schedule gets less hectic, we can reevaluate. I can find plenty of time for sex without pawning my daughter off. I work from home and make my own schedule. It has its perks! My daughter will never meet any of my lovers. Absolutely not.

 

My daughter is not the excuse to stay. She is the reason I didn't leave during my first trimester when things changed. She's the reason I stay here, in a place I despise, hundreds of miles away from all friends and family except for my son. This is the longest relationship I have ever been in, and I've been ready to cut and run for three years, but I stay because she deserves to have a relationship with her father and I cannot afford a place in this godforsaken high COL area, so I would have to move out of state and they would go months without seeing each other. Whew, run on sentence!

 

With the recent neighbour drama, I am taking the first opportunity to move that comes up. I have been on lists for housing assistance for over a year now with nothing. I make enough to rent in many places around the country, but not here. I am sad that the cost of child support and covering the mortgage by himself will be financially crippling for him, and that has been a reason to waffle and be a little unsure what I would do if an opportunity came up. On my end, financially, things would be the same, as I would ask for the amount of child support to cover the housing difference, which is about half of what I am entitled to, but I am not evil.

[sadscorpio]

OP, I'm just curious - with your self proclaimed high sex drive (to the point of mentioning opening your marriage), what did you do for sex during the two years you were in an ldr?

 

"I don't want anybody else, when I think about you I touch myself"

 

Does that sum it up?

 

We also did video calls and hot texting together in addition to fully alone time. He came to visit me every other month or so for 1-2 weeks typically, during which we would have sex around 10-20 times or more. I was like a sex camel.

 

Taking care of myself was perfect when it was a choice, not a necessity, and when I wasn't dealing with years of rejection. I did alright with that during my pregnancy, mostly, except for the emotional side of being rejected and ignored, but physically I was kinda ok. Eventually, I became unable to take care of my own needs without breaking down crying and feeling worthless. He really took the fun out of my lifelong solo pasttime. I will get my groove back, though, that I know for sure!

[preraph]

If he decides he wants joint custody, he'll get it. However, you may be right and he may not even want it, especially if he clung to the idea before that he was infertile and then freaked out when he wasn't and stopped having relations with you. There is something more going on there, I promise you.

[stillafool]

Have you told him that if he doesn't have sex with you you will have no other choice but to find it elsewhere? If so, what was his response.

[BaileyB]

It sounds to me OP that you have a pretty clear idea of how this will go, when/if you separate. You seem to have a good plan, you are financially responsible, respectful of your daughter’s father but not blind to his lack of parenting skill...

 

I’m sorry that it has potentially come to this, but I think you will be fine. Good luck.

[sadscorpio]

If he decides he wants joint custody, he'll get it. However, you may be right and he may not even want it, especially if he clung to the idea before that he was infertile and then freaked out when he wasn't and stopped having relations with you. There is something more going on there, I promise you.

 

Not sure what more could be going on there. He also stopped having sex with his exwife, who never got pregnant, and had strained issues with his exgirlfriend before her of 20 years (which of course I learned about later on, after I'd moved in).

 

He's not going to want to involve the courts, so I highly doubt he will press the issue, especially since I will let him see her as much as he likes; I just don't want her doing overnights/weekends/trips away with him until she's old enough to voice her needs.

[sadscorpio]

It sounds to me OP that you have a pretty clear idea of how this will go, when/if you separate. You seem to have a good plan, you are financially responsible, respectful of your daughter’s father but not blind to his lack of parenting skill...

 

I’m sorry that it has potentially come to this, but I think you will be fine. Good luck.

 

Thank you! I hate that this is the choice I have to make. I appreciate your validating response!