Is that any hope left

[DreamP]

So my marriage is pretty much over in many respects. But I have decided to stay because of the kids. I'm trying to decide if I should give it one more chance. Here is my story. Sorry it's so long.

 

Been with husband over 15 years. He is 14 years older than me. We are both smart educated people who didn't rush into a marriage. The first year of marriage was probably the happiest year of my life. Then the kids started arriving. First the sex declined. Then he turned into the stereotypical man women always complain about that doesn't help out around the house. I became the nagging wife. We both worked full time stressful jobs, but since he made twice as much as I did, he always said, "you have no idea how stressful my job is." He couldn't even take 5 minutes out of his day to call home before the kids went to bed.

 

I continued to work full time at a very stressful job and taking care of 2 small kids. I was the only one who initiated sex. One time, when I was getting sexy on his lap, he actually leaned over and started channel surfing. Then didn't understand why I was angry. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown and everybody around me kept asking if I was OK. Everybody except my husband.

 

I changed jobs to something less stressful, but still full time. I got tired of initiating sex so stopped, and we went down to sex once very 3 months. I stopped following him around for his attention. Instead I signed up for Netflix and started to spend my evenings watching it. When he came home, instead of meeting him at the door, I sat at the computer watching. He didn't seem to notice. In fact, I think he was happier with me not demanding his time.

 

I had been asking him to get a vasectomy for years. I got pregnant. Second unplanned pregnancy. This time I decided to not go thru with the pregnancy and got an abortion. He pretended like nothing happened. I had to ask the babysitter to drive me to the abortion clinic. I was still working and the very next day after the abortion, I flew across country for work. I was so heartbroken that for the first time in my life I actually felt physical pain from the emotional unhappiness. I spent many nights lying next to my husband feeling alone and crying. He never noticed.

 

I decided I was done loving him. I made a conscious decision not to love him any more. I avoided all conversation unless talking about kids and household. I prevented myself from having any sexual thoughts about him (before this, 95% of my sexual fantasies were with him). He seemed pretty content with the situation.

 

In the past few years, we have had a few serious conversations about this. I have asked him to see a doctor about the sexual issues. He hasn't. I suggested a marriage counselor. He made excuses. He never denies the inequality in our marriage. He says he loves me and and promises to change. Usually the change will last a few days. Last conversation was a really serious one. Change lasted a whole month. I also invested myself in making it work wholeheartedly. I had told him the ups and downs of having hope was worst than just living with the status quo and accepting our relationship as is. We are back to no sex, barely talking to each other, me being angry all the time, me doing all the work with the kids and household, etc. The thing is, I actually make 4 times what he makes now so I am also the primary breadwinner too.

 

I can't keep doing this. At this point I would rather us just accept this and sleep in separate bedrooms. However, he likes to cuddle at night and give little kisses (he won't French kiss me). I feel like he is getting all his physical needs met while am being teased. The reality is I don't love him any more. I don't really want to spend alone time with him. For this relationship to work, he would have to make a massive change including wooing me like when we were dating. He would have to treat me like a princess.

 

Do I make one more attempt to talk with him. I've also thought about asking for an open relationship so at least I can get my sexual needs met. He would absolutely not agree to it. I am really unhappy and I have said so. I am very stressed and have a difficult time focusing on work. If I didn't have kids, I would have walked away a really long time. I don't see the point of talking again. We've already done it so many times, what is the point.

[privategal]

I divorced my 1st husband as I didnt feel loved. Forget sex, if your neglected and unloved what else is there?

My vote is to end it. For me I felt relieved and happy and free.

[Soxfaninfl]

OP, I would give him an ultimatum. Your marriage is to fare gone to be fixed without counseling. If he doesn't go to marriage counseling then I would move on. You have done so much to try to fix your marriage. It takes two people to make a marriage work, and when the other gives up then it's not a marriage anymore. You deserve to be happy. You should not stay in a miserable marriage for your kids either. They will see what an unhealthy marriage is and think that is normal.

 

I understand what your going through. I was with my ex-wife for 13 years. I tried to save my marriage with counseling, but she didn't give it much effort. In the end it was a blessing that our marriage ended. You should still attend counseling whether he goes or not. The counselor can also give you advice regarding your feelings and emotions. You have children, and they will also need counseling. I had my son attend counseling, and it helped him.

[Lady2163]

I agree give it one more try. Possibly mentioning an open marriage while Youre in a counseling session may be an idea.

 

Oh - and get some kind of helper. A housekeeper, a college student who watches the kids and does laundry or starts supper, something to take a bit of the domestic stress from your shoulders. I'm not saying they have to be full time, even 3-4 hours a week may be a respite for you.

[Mr. Lucky]

If I didn't have kids, I would have walked away a really long time. I don't see the point of talking again. We've already done it so many times, what is the point.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think your kids don't sense and see the tension between the two of you. The anger and resentment pops out of every word you've posted so I can only imagine what it's like watching you chop vegetables for dinner. It gives your children the wrong idea about marriage and relationships.

 

If your H won't change, won't go to counseling and won't make an effort, sexually or otherwise, what's left to save?

 

Martyrdom and effective parenting rarely coexist...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am really sorry about your situation.

 

I would certainly recommend therapy and MC for the both of you but honestly....I am not sure why you are staying. You need to communicate with each other. You need to be able to express your needs and wants and desires and dreams. Your child needs to be raised in a loving environment.....and i don't believe she is. She will learn what she feels and accept it as normal....

 

Resentment can build hatred....and it sounds to me that you are well on your way.

 

I don't hear love and respect in your story....it might be there....be you are not expressing it. I don't even hear hope.....and without hope ...I am not sure anything can save this relationship.

 

Best of luck to you.....

[jenkins95]

DreamP

 

I'm so sorry that you are in such a tough situation. I agree with lady and sox - I would give it one more try. But I think for him to take it seriously, he needs to know exactly how neglected you feel and how important this is - that if it doesn't work out this time, it's pretty much game over.

 

It is normal for marriages to get into a rut at some point, for the daily routine to feel mundane and exhausting, for sex to be demoted to the bottom of the list of priorities and to just go through the motions of life. I get that. It just takes an effort to recognise that and do something about it. And it doesn't seem like your husband 1. recognises it, 2. has a problem with it - seems he's happy to drift on how he is or 3. knows what to do about it. This is where great communication between you and the possible involvement of a counsellor could really help you both lots. My marriage got into a rut and I did just about he worst thing possible - I had an affair. Thankfully infidelity doesn't play a part in your marriage, so that is a real positive as you look to recover things.

 

I love Lady's idea of a housekeeper, or at least a babysitter. I think one reason that such a distance has grown between you guys is that you work so damned hard! Both in full time jobs and with two small kids to take care of. That's tough! When did you ever get time to spend on each other over the years? How many times have you had nice romantic evenings out in restaurants, bars, etc, a night away in a hotel with your folks looking after the children? I'd wager not often!

 

It's amazing how quality communication and making time for each other can rebuild connections and ignite love that you thought had been extinguished forever. I experienced exactly that with my wife following my affair after she decided to forgive me and work on our marriage. I think your husband needs a little scare as telling him nicely hasn't worked. If he knew that you were genuinely thinking of leaving the marriage and that you meant it, if he knew you lied awake crying at night, if he knew how unhappy and disconnected from him you felt, it could snap him out of his indifference and make him realise what a valuable thing he has in you and your lovely family. Tell him sensitively but firmly and leave him in no doubt that you deserve more and that things cannot go on like this. Do everything you can, then if it does fail, you know you've tried everything and that he is just unreachable - but let's hope it doesn't come to that! I've known marriages in apparently awful states turn themselves around - but BOTH partners have to work hard, not just one. he need to step up to the plate now - he is very lucky to have such a nice, sensitive, caring wife and he needs to appreciate that and that he risks losing everything.

 

Give it your very best shot DreamP. Good luck!

Edited March 3, 2016 by jenkins95

[DreamP]

DreamP

I love Lady's idea of a housekeeper, or at least a babysitter. I think one reason that such a distance has grown between you guys is that you work so damned hard! Both in full time jobs and with two small kids to take care of. That's tough! When did you ever get time to spend on each other over the years? How many times have you had nice romantic evenings out in restaurants, bars, etc, a night away in a hotel with your folks looking after the children? I'd wager not often!

 

I do have a cleaning service. I had to put my foot down about getting one. Since my husband lost his high paying job, we cut back on many luxuries and that was one. He didn't want to pay for cleaning but he never helped me clean the house. I would get my young kids to help me vacuuming and scrubbing the bathroom while he was "working" on the computer.

 

We do go out occasionally. I am the one who always arranges it. And it is usually something he likes to do. I like dinner and movie too, but that is not my favorite thing to do. Since getting married, he has never voluntarily done some of the activities I enjoy. But when we do go out, I have to convince him, plan it, set up the babysitter, make sure the kids are feed, etc. All he does is get himself ready. Once a week, there is an evening when both kids are at sports. I used to keep asking him about doing something. Maybe get dinner or go to the local bar. He usually never makes it home in time from work. He works independently so he makes his own hours. I've given up on asking him. Now I just try to make plans with other people.

[Mr. Lucky]

And you continue to live this way because... ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Doublegold]

Your resentments jump off the page, and are understandable. I was married 27 years, three of those separated. We never lost our intimacy--I could not imagine living without intimacy in a relationship, it is such a rejection of you!

 

In the end~ I could not get past the resentments and ending up falling out of love. Today, we get along great, Our grown children are amazing, life is good.

 

Don't settle. If you want to settle--OK--but if you don't, make a life for yourself.

 

And Mr. Lucky is correct:

 

Martyrdom and effective parenting rarely coexist...

[oldshirt]

You two are already basically just friends and coparents and roommates, would it really make any difference if you moved to your own place and continued to be cooperative coparents that happen to live in two different houses and dropped the roommate component of your relationship?

 

 

What benefit are you or the children getting now that would not be applicable if you were in two different homes other than the kids might have to keep two different bedrooms clean (is that even applicable? would your H make them keep their rooms clean at his house? LOL)

 

 

But seriously, what benefit is anyone truly getting by "staying together for the children"? Why are you holding them responsible for your miserable existence? Do they deserve or even want to be held responsible for your miserable existence?

 

 

Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment and living in a toxic and chronically embittered environment. They are not harmed by two loving, supportive parents that are involved in their lives but happen to live in separate homes.

 

 

Assuming your husband is not abusive or dangerously neglectful, the worst that will happen to the kids is they will be inconvenienced by going back and forth between two houses. That is an inconvenience and a pain in the butt at times. But it is not a trauma nor harmful.

 

 

You are using them as excuses to martyr yourself and that is not fair for them.

 

 

If you were to move out and divorce, would anyone actually care?

[oldshirt]

just out of curiosity, how old are the children?

[DreamP]

just out of curiosity, how old are the children?

 

8 and 11. I want to stay with my husband at least until the kids go off to college. After that, I may leave if things remain the same.

 

One kid is super sensitive. His friends parents went through a divorce and he took it really badly. Kept asking if we would get divorced. I know that if I were to get divorced, he would blame himself. He is just that kind of kid.

 

Right now, me and my husband don't talk much, but we aren't fighting in front of the kids or badmouthing each other to them. Actually, when they comment about dad not helping in the cleaning, I try to defend him by saying he does a lot that they don't see. I don't want them thinking poorly of their father. They do see us go out on date nights occasionally but they don't see the effort it took to make it happen. One time, one of their friends mentioned that their parents sleep in separate beds. My kid's response was, "that is so sad. I feel bad for your dad. My parents sleep in the same bed."

[Mr. Lucky]

Right now, me and my husband don't talk much, but we aren't fighting in front of the kids or badmouthing each other to them.

 

About 30% of human communication is based on the meaning of words said. The balance is tone, inflection, body language, eye contact and other non-verbal clues. If your son is sensitive, he's in tune with this.

 

You'd provide a more healthy environment if you'd either fix the issues in your marriage or leave. The current situation is a horrible model for your kids...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mrs rubble]

I absolutely agree with Mr.Lucky.

Don't lie to your children either! Defending your husband by lying about "The things they don't see him do" is making a mokery of your son's observation and giving them the wrong idea of who your husband really is.

[oldshirt]

One kid is super sensitive. His friends parents went through a divorce and he took it really badly. Kept asking if we would get divorced. I know that if I were to get divorced, he would blame himself.

 

Right now, me and my husband don't talk much, but we aren't fighting in front of the kids or badmouthing each other to them. Actually, when they comment about dad not helping in the cleaning, I try to defend him by saying he does a lot that they don't see. "

 

 

Let's come down off of our golden unicorn here and talk about the realities behind these statements.

 

Your son asked if you were getting a divorce because he knows your marriage is worse than his friend's parents marriage. He didn't really take their divorce that bad, you are projecting your fears on to him.

 

He won't blame himself because he can already see that there's no love between you. Again you are projecting. He won't blame himself. You are afraid he will hold a grudge against you. He won't blame you. When he is older and better able to express himself, he ask you why you stayed so long.

 

In regards to the cleaning reference, that's just a metaphor for their awareness that you two are disconnected and not functioning as a marital team. You aren't fooling them. They know.

 

You are using your kids as your excuse for misery and martyrdom for some reason and I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps you don't want to be held responsible for the divorce so you are holding them responsible for staying in a dead marriage. That's really an unfair burden to place on them.

 

Since there's no mention of abuse or neglect or anything hazardous to them, I suppose there is no immediate harm in staying for now. But I think the danger is you are role modeling maladaptive relationships to them.

[Dolfin80]

one time, one of their friends mentioned that their parents sleep in separate beds. My kid's response was, "that is so sad. I feel bad for your dad. My parents sleep in the same bed."

 

My parents slept in different beds. Its actually quite common and NOTHING wrong with it. They couldnt sleep in the same bed due to dads snoring.

 

One of my gf is like this with her hubby

 

Snoring sux

[Babs22]

I have a girlfriend who's marriage was very similar to yours. They had 4 kids. The youngest now is 17. My friend was unhappy and felt unloved for many years. She stayed in the marriage, like you, for the kids. Eventually, it became too much for her, but instead of divorcing her H, she had an affair. She felt like she just had to make it until her youngest went off to college. Well the A was discovered and her H broadcast it to all the kids. The three oldest kids are now not speaking to her. Her husband went on a PR campaign to destroy her relationship with her kids. Luckily the youngest has not been fooled, probably because she spends the most time with her mom.

 

Anyway, my friend was more than happy to get the D when the A was discovered. I think her H thought she would be remorseful and beg for forgiveness and instead she was totally willing to get the D. She is in the middle of this now and tells me how she wished she had divorced her H many, many years ago when she realized that she did not love her H. She stayed for the kids and it ended up biting her in the butt. Yes, she chose to have the A (that just happened the past couple of years) instead of get the divorce, but she was unwilling to get the D until her youngest grew up. I think your kids see that you and your H are not in love and that your relationship is not a loving one. They feel it and will understand if you do get a D. I think the most important thing is that they know, even though you may not love each other anymore, you both still love them. They will be ok. You deserve to be in a happy, healthy relationship and your kids deserve to see what that can look like. Good luck.

[heartwhole]

I'm very sorry that your marriage is in this place.

 

Since you clearly want to stay (for the kids), then I'd try to make the marriage better first, though I wouldn't stay in a sexless marriage. I don't think suggesting an open marriage is going to go over well. I'd phrase it rather, "We need to find a way to meet my sexual needs for me to stay in this marriage." The sense I get about your husband is that he will be more than happy to blame you ("She wants to have an affair!") since he has let everything else fall on you all these years. I wouldn't give him the ammunition to do so.

 

My marriage DID blow up with an affair (on my husband's part) and I do see how it takes something drastic to be the catalyst for change. In your case, I think the fact that you are this close to leaving could be it. My husband has been forced to confront all of his selfish and immature qualities because I have had it. I won't be cheated on and then patiently accept his not really helping out and always putting himself first. But why did I accept it before?

 

I'm not one for settling. Your happiness is important. Showing your children what a healthy relationship looks like is important.

[Satu]

From my journal:

 

 

"No relationship is older than one day.

 

They need to be refreshed every day with a new investment of love, commitment, and passion.

 

If they aren't, they either die, or become stunted from a lack of feeding.

 

Sometimes people just forget to invest."

 

 

 

It sounds to me like your husband is incredibly lazy.

 

He's probably got it too easy.

 

He needs something to wake him up.

 

 

Downgrade him from gold service down to silver...

 

 

Seriously.

 

 

Don't make his life too easy.

[DreamP]

From my journal:

 

It sounds to me like your husband is incredibly lazy.

 

He's probably got it too easy.

 

He needs something to wake him up.

 

 

Downgrade him from gold service down to silver...

 

 

Seriously.

 

 

Don't make his life too easy.

 

Actually I have, significantly. I used to pack him lunch, make him dinner, do his laundry, plan elaborate birthday parties for him and more. Stopped doing all of that. This year on Valentine's day, I did nothing. Not even a card. He occasionally asks about the laundry but non of the other stuff seems to have registered.

[anika99]

8 and 11. I want to stay with my husband at least until the kids go off to college. After that, I may leave if things remain the same.

 

One kid is super sensitive. His friends parents went through a divorce and he took it really badly. Kept asking if we would get divorced. I know that if I were to get divorced, he would blame himself. He is just that kind of kid.

 

Right now, me and my husband don't talk much, but we aren't fighting in front of the kids or badmouthing each other to them. Actually, when they comment about dad not helping in the cleaning, I try to defend him by saying he does a lot that they don't see. I don't want them thinking poorly of their father. They do see us go out on date nights occasionally but they don't see the effort it took to make it happen. One time, one of their friends mentioned that their parents sleep in separate beds. My kid's response was, "that is so sad. I feel bad for your dad. My parents sleep in the same bed."

 

Then get that kid into counselling so that he doesn't blame himself. I think if you divorced your kids would get more quality time with their dad than they do now. He will have to take care of them during his time with them and he may end up having a better relationship with them once he's forced to be their caregiver.

[getsmartie]

8 and 11. I want to stay with my husband at least until the kids go off to college. After that, I may leave if things remain the same.

 

One kid is super sensitive. His friends parents went through a divorce and he took it really badly. Kept asking if we would get divorced. I know that if I were to get divorced, he would blame himself. He is just that kind of kid.

 

Right now, me and my husband don't talk much, but we aren't fighting in front of the kids or badmouthing each other to them. Actually, when they comment about dad not helping in the cleaning, I try to defend him by saying he does a lot that they don't see. I don't want them thinking poorly of their father. They do see us go out on date nights occasionally but they don't see the effort it took to make it happen. One time, one of their friends mentioned that their parents sleep in separate beds. My kid's response was, "that is so sad. I feel bad for your dad. My parents sleep in the same bed."

 

 

I lived in this type of marriage. We've now been divorced for 14 years. My kids are now adults and my oldest daughter who is 26 recently asked me why I stayed in the marriage and that growing up it really messed her up. When she noticed how her friends parents were so affectionate with one another did she truly know something was wrong with her own parents.

 

Your son asking you whether you were going to get divorced is because he senses something is terribly wrong. They are so incredibly smart at this and they watch both of you even when you think they are not.

 

I feel for you, I've been in your spot. Good luck!

[Lois_Griffin]

Actually I have, significantly. I used to pack him lunch, make him dinner, do his laundry, plan elaborate birthday parties for him and more. Stopped doing all of that. This year on Valentine's day, I did nothing. Not even a card. He occasionally asks about the laundry but non of the other stuff seems to have registered.

This is why I laugh every time I hear men whining that marriage only benefits the woman and not them.

 

Most women end up becoming a damned pack mule in a marriage, working her butt off constantly and doing everything while her lazy ass husband sits around doing nothing and expecting her to do it all - while working a full time job on TOP of it.

 

Yeah, most women benefit JUST so much from being worked to death.

 

I wouldn't stay with an ass like this until my kids graduated high school. Screw that.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Dream, you've received a lot of good advice from a number of posters some of whom have been in a similar situation to yours. You would do well to heed their advice. You do not have to suffer interminably just because you think you want to spate your children some trauma. If anything they may be suffering from trauma right now. Your husband is 14 years older than you. There is almost a generational gap between the two of you. I do not know how old you are but I assume you are in your mid thirties. That would make your husband around fifty years of age. Apparently he has lost what ever libido he had and has settled into a comfortable lifestyle ( for him ) so that he is now completely oblivious of your needs and desires. It shows him up as a very selfish and self centered person who is interested in his own creature comforts and unconcerned about you and the children.

He doesn't deserve you and the sooner you sever relations with him the sooner you will find yourself in a better place. Just leave him and move on with your life. You have nothing to fear since you are earning four times as much as him and are not dependent on him. Warm wishes!