SteveH Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I have been married to my wife for 19 years, two kids. A few months ago my wife said she could never have sex again as it made her feel dirty. She also revealed that she had been carrying this burden for 5 or so years. Although I never abused her physically or emotionally, I must admit to not giving her the respect she deserved. I have apologized and become a better husband but she says sex will never be an option again. We have been to extensive marriage counciling with no change in this area. Very recently I have begun to dabble in porn. I take my wedding vows seriously so I won't have an affair or use prositutes. Porn seems to be my only sexual outlet but I really don't want this in my life and certainly not the only basis for my sex life. So is this a legitimate reason for divorce? The thought of never having sex again (I am 44) seems unreasonable to me as a man. Am I being just too selfish? I feel trapped. Link to post Share on other sites
havNfun Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I don't think it is a reason for divorce. you are 45 - have had 19 years of some sex. You have children and a wife and have established a family to enjoy and be about. Would the sex be that huge of a sacrafice to put asside for all that you have? Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted July 19, 2004 Senior Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2004 You can't thrive on porn for the rest of your life. Sex is a very legitimate expression of love in an intimate relationship. I do know it can go sour quickly for a number of reasons and that's pretty scary. However, if you've been to lots of counselling and really talked this out with your wife, I would back off completely and give it some time....without ever mentioning sex. If within a year of your being tender, kind and considerate towards her she doesn't warm up to the idea of sex again, you have every reason to move on. Conjugal rights are an essential element of marriage, even in religious law. If sex is that critically important to you, you'll have to move on at some point but don't tell your wife this and put further pressure on her. Just let it go for now. Has she been examined by a medical doctor? Could part of this be a change of life thing? Is she under a lot of stress? I certainly hope your counsellor really tried to explore all possibilities. Getting heavy into porn with her knowledge is not going to help matters at all. I am at a total loss about what to tell you here, just don't masturbate in a movie theatre. Link to post Share on other sites
holeymoley Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Originally posted by havNfun I don't think it is a reason for divorce. you are 45 - have had 19 years of some sex. You have children and a wife and have established a family to enjoy and be about. Would the sex be that huge of a sacrafice to put asside for all that you have? What, when one person doesn't want to have sex any more the other is just supposed to say "Thanks for everything, I'll just shut my penis off now" If both parties were OK with no sex, fine. But it's obviously not ok for him. Has your wife mentioned it would be OK for you to find sex outside the home? Even if this isn't OK with you in terms of vows you can't be expected to never have sex again...... Link to post Share on other sites
Author SteveH Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by Tony I would back off completely and give it some time....without ever mentioning sex. That is exactly what I am doing. Originally posted by Tony Has she been examined by a medical doctor? Yep, been there, done that. Originally posted by Tony Getting heavy into porn with her knowledge is not going to help matters at all. She doesn't know I have used it. I am trying to avoid it as much as possible. I am reminded of a joke that has become totally true in my life: Sex is like air. It's no big deal unless your'e not getting any. Link to post Share on other sites
supermom Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 A few months ago my wife said she could never have sex again as it made her feel dirty. She also revealed that she had been carrying this burden for 5 or so years. Why after all this time with you she can't or won't have sex. Does she realize that you still want to? What about a sex therapist? Do you think she could of been raped or had some sexual trama that could lead to this decision of hers? she says sex will never be an option again. She doesn't think she will miss it? I don't know what to tell you but kudos for not cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksin Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I agree, you are trapped, and I agree entirely with Tony's post. I would give her some time to sort herself out and if she cant/wont, look elsewhere for your R&R or hit the road permanently. Jack Link to post Share on other sites
PUHLEEEEZE... Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Get the book by Dr. Laura "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". Read it. Then ask here if she would be willing to read it. You both deserve to enjoy the intimacy G-d intended you to have in your marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 If it were due to a disability then I wouldn't even think of telling you to consider options. I get the feeling if she couldn't help it there wouldn't be an option to you, you don't come across as a cruel person at all. If the mental and physical reasons are ruled out. I would understand your feeling upset, sad and even hopeless. I think "with-holding" is grounds for divorce in some if not all states. I don't feel God intented for sex in marriage to just be for procreation. I think it just as important as communication and honestly and all the other qualities that are given for a good marriage. She is being selfish, she is hurting your marriage.....try and talk to her and get help....then if you've exhausted all efforts (which I think you kinda have or you wouldn't be here) warn her that it's causing you to want to leave...then after that, do what you think is best. I truly hope the marriage can be saved and that you have a wonderful and satisfying sex life (that she wants too)!! Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Tony said it very well. I surely don't expect someone in their forties to resign themselves to a sexless life for the next 30-50 years. It's not reasonable. Sex is important physically, but it is even more important emotionally, for the connection and the joy that you (can) feel. Porn cannot possibly fill that need. It's just a filler for in-between times - not a healthy way of life. Please read The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis. She has so much good information and ideas for BOTH partners - the high drive and the low/no drive. And she makes it clear that mismatched desire is a problem in the marriage that BOITH partners MUST address. Marriage should be a two way street. Each person meets the other's needs to the best of their ability. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 You know what? I'll bet you anything that she is going through her "change of life" Woman get thinking all kinds of "unexplained" stuff and act VERY STRANGE.......... I know of a woman who had a guest house built in her backyard because she no longer wanted "guests" to stay in her house when they were visiting because were "Dirty" My g/f told me that even after she, her husband and the kids would visit.......when they left.......her mother would stay up half the night cleaning walls, floors, doorknobs......anything that a "stranger" would touch! Now I know that this sounds like that actions of a crazy woman but have I made my point yet? It takes almost 10 years "pre-menopause warm-up" for lack of a better term. I personally know of many, many women who are already insane about personal hygene. This is only emphasized more later on in life. Are you a "clean" man? Do you have dirt under your nails? Do you make sure to shower before you make any "moves" on her? You do not have to answer to me.........you can answer these questions to yourself and maybe my questions will help you re-evaluate your situation. You know........a lot of women get past this with time. Bubbles. Link to post Share on other sites
lnichols Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 First of all, I'm really sorry about this. Sex is the foundation of a healthy married couple, and I can't imagine being married without it, (except if one partner was ill or physically unable). Having said this, I know of a couple who has been married for over 20 years - two grown children - and they just stopped having sex. She didn't want to do it. Later, he developed an erectile disfunction due to a back injury, so he just dropped the subject. Talking to this guy, he can't even remember why they both stopped trying. He got a prescription for Viagra but never tried it. He said it was just sitting in the medicine cabinet. His wife knows it is there. He won't ask her and she won't ask him. They just don't. Give your wife some time. Be a really good husband, but don't just drop it. Keep trying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SteveH Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by Bubbles You know what? I'll bet you anything that she is going through her "change of life" My wife is 44, you may be onto something. Originally posted by Bubbles Are you a "clean" man? Do you have dirt under your nails? Do you make sure to shower before you make any "moves" on her? Bubbles. I wish it was my hygene, that would be so easy to correct. I am an ultra-clean guy. Almost weird about being very clean. THANKS TO ALL FOR THE EXCELLENT RESPONSES. You are a good group of people. I really appreciate your thoughts. -Steve Link to post Share on other sites
StartingAgain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 NO!! You are not being selfish. You are only 44 years old, you are a vital man. Yes it is a reason for divorce. It's one of the few I consider valid. So she has a emotional problem with sex and rather than going to a psychotherapist and working this porblem out, she wants to impose a lifetime of celibacy on you? No way you don't allow that and you don't become a porn freak just to have a sexual outlet. Tell wife that you love her and you are willing to help her with this problem, but you will not live in a sexless marriage. Either she gets some help or you are divorcing her. I ran across on online support group for men and women trapped in sexless marriages about a year ago. There were *thousands* of members. These people were utterly miserable and most were cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
O'Hallaran Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Reading your post, wow, I had no idea so many others have the same problem. Mine is liek yours except I'm 37 and my wife is 33. & 2 kids, and she has no interest in sex... Did therapy, did porn, did the cheating, did the counseling... so where are we...??? one big unhappy mess. She's had issues that of come to the surface regarding a threatening sexual experience when she was younger and issues with men. We're working on it, but in this there are no easy answers. I wish you all the best as i have none to offer. Just wanted to say I admire your will power. All i can offer is that Cheating will not help AT ALL. Link to post Share on other sites
Azeele Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by VivianLee I think "with-holding" is grounds for divorce in some if not all states. Yes. It's called "constructive abadonment". Link to post Share on other sites
StartingAgain Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 At 44, it is highly unlikely that your wife is going through menopause. She may be perimenopausal, and even though American women are starting this a tad earlier now than in the past, she could be in this stage for another 6 -10. There is an idea, a very wrong idea, that when women go into menopause, they no longer have interest in sex. This simply isn't true. Sex drive in women is driven by the same hormone as it is in men - testosterone. The female hormones estrogen and progesterone play no direct role in this. I have never known a woman with a healthy libido give up sex just because she is going through menopause. There may be other things going on that make her less interested form time to time, but she doesn't loose interest completely. My sister is going through it right now and her interest in sex has actually increased -- much to her husband's delight. SteveH's wife says that she isn't going to have sex anymore because it makes her feel dirty. So it is obvious that we she's dealing with a psychological problem. One thing is certain it is completely unacceptable for a married person to take away his/her partner's sexual outlet. It is a fundamental betrayal and, to my mind, just as horrendous as infidelity. Actually, this is one of the only justifications I consider to have any validity for someone committing infidelity. No one should have to have a sexless life imposed on him and porn simply isn't the answer, since that is a dangerous road. SteveH, I would confront her and tell her that she decision is not acceptable and insist that the two of you begin to see a sex therapist immediately. That's right both of you. Sex therapists usually treat couples and then do individual work as needed. Link to post Share on other sites
magda Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I dunno, "feeling dirty" sounds like a mental thing with her. I don't know what your marraige shrink has to say about all this, but it sounds to me like she's a little bit sick in the head over this. And the vow does say, "in sickness and in health." Link to post Share on other sites
Max Zoom Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Anyone who does not desire sex because it makes them feel dirty needs to have regular sessions with a psychiatrist. If you enjoy a healthy libido your wife does not, even in sickness, have the right to end your sex life. I suggest that you have a series of frank discussions with your wife to set up some boundaries that would apply to your options for sexual release. I see nothing wrong with porn or you having a long term relationship, say on a monthly basis, with a mature, healthy escort. Link to post Share on other sites
StartingAgain Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Max has a point about using a prostitute. I knew a couple once and the wife developed cancer. When her condition deteriorated to the point when she was not healthy enough to have sex, she told her husband to find himself a woman to meet his needs (talk about a woman who loves her husband!). She told him to use an escirt, but that he might want to consider a girlfriend, since she understood that there would come a time when when he would need an intimate partner to turn to for support. He resisted this idea, but she finally insisted, saying that this did not constitute a betrayal or infidelity. She told him that he was taking care of her, but not himself. A wise woman.... As for porno... Porn can be a nice adjuct to a healthy sex life. Many married couples use it on occasion and most men will dabble in it on occasion. But one should NEVER allow it to become their sole sexual outlet, just as one should never using it for anything more than fantasy fuel. I have never known a man who got into porn heavily who didn't develop serious problems. Porn objectivies women and so much of it now is based on humiliating and degrading women. Increasingly it is becoming very perverse and violent. If porn is one's sole sexual outlet, the lines of reality and fantasy can become blurred. It just isn't worth the risk. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Personally, I don't think it's a legitimate reason. But, I'm not suffering with this problem. I think that it could be a phase and you should stick it out and see. In order for a woman to give herself to her significate other, there are so many variables that have to met. I have this picture I keep on my CNC machine that has 2 electrical boxes on it. One is named Men and the other Women. On the "Men", box it only has one switch to turn on, on the "Women", box it has 12 switches, 9 dials, a couple sliding bars, indicators, and a thousand lights on it. Find out what switches she has and learn how to fine tune them to turn her light on. Good Luck!! Moose Link to post Share on other sites
tiki Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by SteveH I have been married to my wife for 19 years, two kids. A few months ago my wife said she could never have sex again as it made her feel dirty. She also revealed that she had been carrying this burden for 5 or so years. Although I never abused her physically or emotionally, I must admit to not giving her the respect she deserved. I have apologized and become a better husband but she says sex will never be an option again. We have been to extensive marriage counciling with no change in this area. Very recently I have begun to dabble in porn. I take my wedding vows seriously so I won't have an affair or use prositutes. Porn seems to be my only sexual outlet but I really don't want this in my life and certainly not the only basis for my sex life. So is this a legitimate reason for divorce? The thought of never having sex again (I am 44) seems unreasonable to me as a man. Am I being just too selfish? I feel trapped. Steve - when was the last time you had sex with your wife? Link to post Share on other sites
Author SteveH Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by tikibrandy Steve - when was the last time you had sex with your wife? Probably around three months ago. I haven't mentioned the subject except when we are talking about how to improve our marriage. I have shared with her that I am sexually frustrated. She says she feels sorry for me that I am so controlled by my sex drive. This attitude is not helping me at all. I really don't think I need pity for having a normal sex drive. The last thing she said to me was that she was so burned out on the sex topic that she really doesn't want to even hear about it again. The good news is that I have given up the porn, I just think 99% of porn is sleazy and gross. I'm really rather sexually conservative. The bad news is that I am giving serious consideration to an escort service. Something I have never done or ever seriously considered before. Wondering how this might be better/worse than having an affair. I tend to think an affair would be more wrong - I'm not looking for another female companion - just a little sexual relief. With an escort service there is more honesty in the situation. Thanks for all the responses, it's really helping me with my attitude on this frustrating topic. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Didn't read the whole post, but I wanted to say "hell yes, its grounds for divorce"! My husband and I have not had sex in nearly 14 years. That's not why we are divorcing (it has to do with our children passing away and us growing apart, yada yada yada) but on our divorce papers it was easier to state the lack of sex as the reason. I'd have to go look at the papers to see how it was all worded, but no sex is the basis of the whole thing. It falls under irreconcilable differences. Kudos to you for not having an affair. What are her reasons? Is she willing to talk about what this is doing to you? What about counseling? Is she going through menopause? Sex is very often a deal-breaker for couples. Link to post Share on other sites
tiki Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 then give her time Steve...she may come around? Give her a reason to want you. Smell good. Court her. Treat her like a bombshell. Don't give her any reason to NOT be turned on by you! Good luck to ya. Link to post Share on other sites
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