capri Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Long story short: Married 17 years with children. In the last two, discovered secret e-mail accounts with secret female friends. He swears it's purely innocent work friendships. Given many of the other details and deceptions surrounding these women, I find it impossible to make myself believe that. I consider it either emotional or potentially physical affairs, and the lies and deceptions certainly hurt as much as if he's been sleeping around. We've been through Retrouvaille and two counselors. Upshot: he walks out on me if I tell my negative emotions and the counselors have both refused to deal with his lifelong habit of lying, or to try to get to the bottom of these friendships. I am being told to make a choice to trust again (which I've done repeatedly throughout the years), to move forward, rebuild our relationship, look to the future, and stop dwelling on the past. Present situation: H has made huge changes in objectionable behavior over the last two years. Apart from still insisting on stories that defy everything I know of human nature, he treats me like a queen. My gut says he really has cut it off with these women as he told me he did. I know marriages can and do survive infidelity. But can they move ahead with lies about the past hanging over them? Without the questions answered to the satisfaction of one partner? Knowing your spouse is capable of looking you in the eye with utmost sincerity and lying? I believe it's over, but I also resent and even hate him for lying to me, for expecting me to believe hard to swallow stories. It is so inherently self-serving and disrespectful. I have a friend, a former counselor, who says it is possible to stay in a marriage knowing you can't fully trust your spouse, that she can offer me 'coping techniques,' but I have not yet found a free evening to get together with her and talk about it, so I'm looking for input here, too. Is such a marriage going to be another 30 years of 'coping,' or can it actually be happy? (Seriously, I know what I think the answer is, but I'll ask anyway.) Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 "Given many of the other details and deceptions surrounding these women, I find it impossible to make myself believe that." Link to post Share on other sites
luvstarved Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It is very hard to comment on this without more information. What do you mean by "secret email accounts"? Multiple email addresses used specifically to communicate with certain women, that you knew nothing about until you stumbled upon them somehow? Did you ever read any email exchanges? Does your husband lie to you about other things, or just this? It sounds like you think of him as a pathological liar? Is this what you think? From what you have written, to be honest, it is hard to tell whether he really lied to you or you are paranoid. I am not jumping to conclusions either way, but it would be helpful to have more concrete info on these lies. My H has lied to me about porn use before, but I am very observant and resourceful and know that he ultimately stopped. I know that he lied to cover his own ass and not so much to willfully hurt me. He also white lies to me about other women - "she weighs 400 pounds" (yeah, if you multiply by 2.5), "she's older than us" (yeah, by maybe 20 seconds) about the ones I don't see, "I knew her husband in high school" (but somehow can only remember her name and not his) about the ones I do see, etc. I know that these lies are because I have exhibited jealous behavior and he is trying to avoid a confrontation. I don't like them and even feel insulted by them, but I do know where they come from and feel like they are more or less in the range of normal human behavior. In my case, they are low on the list of concerns. I would ask myself in your case whether it is possible that he lied just to avoid "trouble", even though you may feel, as I have, that the lies just BRING more trouble. Sometimes guys just don't know how to act. If you are really suspicious, then you can do what I also have done, which is to stay on top of phone records, bank transactions, his whereabouts at any given time, and get a keylogger on your computer. I have done all of the above, and yes it is spying, but I have been trying to get my H to be more open with me and failing that, have needed to do this for my own peace of mind (I have been concerned that he will fall into an affair because of our sex issues). But it sounds like the worrisome stuff has stopped for you, so I don't know if that is even necessary. I think it IS possible to get trust back, but it definitely depends on the circumstances. I do hope you will find a chance to talk to your friend about this soon. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
luvstarved Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Also meant to add that I think that anyone who says they trust 100% is either a fool or a liar, or both. In the end, you CAN'T be absolutely positive about another person's thoughts, feelings, etc so there is ALWAYS some room for doubt. The trick is to not let that interfere and to CHOOSE to trust (99/9%???) despite the fact that there will always be some degree of uncertainty... Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I know marriages can and do survive infidelity. But can they move ahead with lies about the past hanging over them? Without the questions answered to the satisfaction of one partner? Knowing your spouse is capable of looking you in the eye with utmost sincerity and lying? Actually, I think each and every one of us is "capable" of looking our spouse in the eye and lying. Whether we choose to do so is another matter entirely. There's just no way for any of us to know if we've got the whole truth or not That is, unless we want to put an inordinate amount of our energy into checking stories. You can be dealing with a guy who's honest as the day is long.. and STILL not know unless you verify it, right? I think alot of it comes down, not so much in trusting the other guy... but in trusting ourselves. Personally, I don't think I can be hoodwinked like THAT again. I already know what 'the monster' looks like. My husband would play hell trying to hide a whopper from me. But sometimes I have to remind myself that I'm capable enough to see through to the truth if need be. And... I have to trust myself to KNOW I can handle whatever situation arises. Link to post Share on other sites
Author capri Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 It is very hard to comment on this without more information. What do you mean by "secret email accounts"? Multiple email addresses used specifically to communicate with certain women, that you knew nothing about until you stumbled upon them somehow? Did you ever read any email exchanges? Yes to all, although he had only one account at a time and used it for all his friends. But there is no doubt he made a point of keeping it a secret, and yes, he was communicating with certain women that I either knew nothing at all about, or had heard the name mentioned in passing as just another co-worker. He made the decision himself to close the account and told me he did. At some point, he simply opened another one and went to great lengths to pretend we were still sharing an account. Yes, I read some of the e-mail exchanges, with only one of the three women in question, and while they weren't the worst thing in the world, they were not appropriate with a married man, and they were further compounded by lies and deceptions. With the first account he got angry when I stumbled across it, and insisted on deleting something before he'd let me near it. After giving me the password to the second account (also kept very secret) he repeatedly told me now I knew everything... what he didn't tell me is that he'd just moved one of these women to his work account. He promised the counselor to forward all personal e-mails to me, and immediately broke that promise. Does your husband lie to you about other things, or just this? It sounds like you think of him as a pathological liar? Is this what you think? I'm not sure I'd say pathological, but he definitely sees lying as a reasonable way of dealing with other people, rather than just keeping his behavior above board to begin with. The other lie that springs to mind is about money. He ran up a very large credit card bill that I only found out about when he was out of town. I know that these lies are because I have exhibited jealous behavior and he is trying to avoid a confrontation. I don't like them and even feel insulted by them, but I do know where they come from and feel like they are more or less in the range of normal human behavior. In my case, they are low on the list of concerns. His lies go beyond the exaggerations you described. No, I am not the jealous type. He's always had plenty of female friends, and I've never been the least bit concerned. There were other women at work who he DID talk about, and I never had any concern. I do agree that you never really know another person. But I think there's a difference between trusting a person who's never been caught in anything more than an exaggeration or truly little white lie, and one who's been caught telling numerous and hurtful lies and creating deceptions. I now know that he chooses to do so. That's what I'm trying to decide: is it possible to have a happy marriage, knowing that? I think alot of it comes down, not so much in trusting the other guy... but in trusting ourselves. Personally, I don't think I can be hoodwinked like THAT again. I think alot of it comes down, not so much in trusting the other guy... but in trusting ourselves. Personally, I don't think I can be hoodwinked like THAT again. Thank you, Ladyjane, for a different perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
Author capri Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 If you are really suspicious, then you can do what I also have done, which is to stay on top of phone records, bank transactions, his whereabouts at any given time, and get a keylogger on your computer. I have done all of the above, and yes it is spying, but I have been trying to get my H to be more open with me and failing that, have needed to do this for my own peace of mind (I have been concerned that he will fall into an affair because of our sex issues). But it sounds like the worrisome stuff has stopped for you, so I don't know if that is even necessary. I forgot to add, I already did the keylogger, which is how I finally found out what was going on in the e-mails. I took it off well over a year ago. A couple of people have suggested I put it on again, and kind of pushed me into looking at a couple of sites again this week, but honestly, it's not worth it. I don't want to spend the money, and even more, my time, and mostly, I just don't want to live like that, having to check up constantly to find out if he's telling me the truth. That's no way to live. Also, it's not going to get me the truth of what happened in the past, since they're not e-mailing now. My question is really just, can a marriage be good for both parties with this huge lie from the past between them? Link to post Share on other sites
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