Deal Breakers

[Surprise Guest]

I’m a LS regular. Needed to post as a guest, though. I’m reaching a point where I’m not certain I want to remain in my marriage anymore. We’ve been together almost 20 years and have two awesome children. I love my wife, but feel we don’t see eye to eye on many issues. We’ve both had A’s. Her’s was much more recent than mine. We’ve been reconciling and we’re communicating better the last 2 years than we did the prior 15+.

 

While we have been getting along well and normalcy has returned, there remain issues that have not been adequately resolved for me no matter how often I approach.

 

Parenting is a huge area of concern. I am very concerned about the health, wellbeing and vitality of my children over the long term and would like for them to follow as much as possible a natural, organic diet. I am adamantly opposed to corn syrup, sodas, pre-processed foods, etc… I believe my daughter’s current diet is setting her up for a lifetime of yeast infections and vaginitis.

 

I feel I need to completely take over the grocery shopping and cooking. I don’t have a problem with that other than time constraints and the fact that my wife is an extremely picky eater. Also, it is going to take some doing to change my children's eating habits.

 

TV time, computer time, bed times, etc…I don’t feel that we are on the same page no matter how hard I try. We’ll reach an agreement and set rules, however, the enforcement is left up to Dad. It f*&king sucks to be the heavy all the time.

 

Sex is a big one. We both completed the marriage builders emotional needs questionnaires shortly after her A was exposed. Nothing I stated as improving my satisfaction on the Sexual Fulfillment questionnaire has been addressed. While our relationship is not sexless (completely), it is not satisfying to me currently. We have now discussed this issue to the point that I want to ask if it is okay for me to take a lover.

 

Seriously, if she doesn’t want to compromise and make any efforts to show me physical desire through look, touch, actions, then me finding someone for purely hedonistic reasons should not bother her. It should come as a relief b/c I’m leaving her alone. I should not have to divorce and be screwed over by our court system and become more financially strapped b/c she has some aversion to wearing sexy outfits every once and awhile or putting my cock in her mouth.

 

I’m tired and frustrated of having the same conversation. I’m beyond certain that my wife experienced some form of sexual abuse in her past that influences her behavior now. She’s been unable to tell me what occurred and she has made no efforts to seek counseling.

 

Health issues – I’m realizing I cannot continue to live with her smoking. I’ve already stuck with it far to long. I used to smoke and quit when our first child was born. I don’t want to take care of her old and sick from cigarettes. “In sickness and in health” does not mean to me conscious choice self-inflicted sickness. This is probably the biggest issue we have currently. This is the most detrimental activity to the survival of our marriage and our family. It is unbelievable selfish and unfair to the kids. She shows absolutely no sign of quitting or a commitment to even attempt.

 

Interested in hearing how others would handle these differences as well as just open a forum on deal breakers in relationships.

[fluffy0]

Parenting is a huge area of concern. I am very concerned about the health, wellbeing and vitality of my children over the long term and would like for them to follow as much as possible a natural, organic diet. I am adamantly opposed to corn syrup, sodas, pre-processed foods, etc… I believe my daughter’s current diet is setting her up for a lifetime of yeast infections and vaginitis.

 

I think this is a bit too health-obssesive. There are many women out there who eat complete junk and do not get yeast infections or vaginitis all the time. Besides, yeast infections and vaginitis are usually not caused by diet anyways unless a woman has uncontrolled diabetes. It is good that you are concerned about the health of your children, but remeber that quality of life is as important as quantity. If forcing your children to follow an extremely orthodox healthy diet is going to hurt the relationship between you and your wife and children maybe you should back off a little. You may be doing more harm than good to their health by causing your kids anxiety and inadvertantly teaching them that food can be a source of guilt and stigmatizing certian foods. You don't want your kids to connect family fights with food because that will give them all kinds of problems when they are adults.

 

I feel I need to completely take over the grocery shopping and cooking. I don’t have a problem with that other than time constraints and the fact that my wife is an extremely picky eater. Also, it is going to take some doing to change my children's eating habits.

 

That sounds kind of controlling. I think its rathar presumptious to think your adult wife is inept at cooking and picking out nutritionally sound food. I'm sure she doen't want your kids to turn out to be tubs of lard either, but maybe you should respect that she has different ideas when it comes to nutrition.

 

TV time, computer time, bed times, etc…I don’t feel that we are on the same page no matter how hard I try. We’ll reach an agreement and set rules, however, the enforcement is left up to Dad. It f*&king sucks to be the heavy all the time.

 

Are sure that the two of you agree on a set of rules? Do you compromise or are the rules mostly set by you. Because for her to stand behind the rules she needs to believe in them.

 

Sex is a big one. We both completed the marriage builders emotional needs questionnaires shortly after her A was exposed. Nothing I stated as improving my satisfaction on the Sexual Fulfillment questionnaire has been addressed. While our relationship is not sexless (completely), it is not satisfying to me currently. We have now discussed this issue to the point that I want to ask if it is okay for me to take a lover.

 

Are you sure you are satisfying all her needs? This seems to be all about you, you, you. She should be trying to please you but you have to do your part too.

 

Seriously, if she doesn’t want to compromise and make any efforts to show me physical desire through look, touch, actions, then me finding someone for purely hedonistic reasons should not bother her. It should come as a relief b/c I’m leaving her alone. I should not have to divorce and be screwed over by our court system and become more financially strapped b/c she has some aversion to wearing sexy outfits every once and awhile or putting my cock in her mouth.

 

Let me get this straight. You think she should be doing anything and everything it takes to fullfill your sexual fantasies even if it makes her feel uncomfortable. And if she doesn't agree to this she should not divorce you because that would be too inconvenient for you. She should instead learn to live with the fact that her husband will be unfaithful to her and always have women on the side. How would you feel if she told you you are not meeting her needs and she wants to have a relationship on the side? Making love is supposed to be about wanting to give to the other person not expecting to be pleased in every way you want. Nobody will be able to fullfill all you sexual desires 100% of the time for a lifetime.

 

I’m tired and frustrated of having the same conversation. I’m beyond certain that my wife experienced some form of sexual abuse in her past that influences her behavior now. She’s been unable to tell me what occurred and she has made no efforts to seek counseling.

 

You should make it clear to her that you want to know about her abuse not because you want to get to the bottom of why you aren't getting laid more faster, but because you genuinely want to help her. Try to be unselfish and show your concern for her well-being.

 

Also, do you have good reason to believe she was abused? Because not wanting to wear sexy outfits or have oral sex are not usually caused by sexual abuse, they are just personality traits. Has your wife made it clear that something abusive did occur?

 

Health issues – I’m realizing I cannot continue to live with her smoking. I’ve already stuck with it far to long. I used to smoke and quit when our first child was born. I don’t want to take care of her old and sick from cigarettes. “In sickness and in health” does not mean to me conscious choice self-inflicted sickness. This is probably the biggest issue we have currently. This is the most detrimental activity to the survival of our marriage and our family. It is unbelievable selfish and unfair to the kids. She shows absolutely no sign of quitting or a commitment to even attempt.

 

I definately agree with you that smoking is an absolutely disgusting habit and smokers are sometimes very selfish because they don't realize how their behavior is effecting others. Yet, you can't make anyone do anything, least of all let go of an addicition. She has to come to the resolution to quit herself. You can either take her as she is and learn to compromise or if it is a definite deal breaker, just leave. Maybe she can only smoke outdoors or when the kids don't see it. You said you were a smoker once, so try to think back to when you were at the height of your smoking addiction. How did you react when people try to make you quit? She may quit one day but you can't count on that.

 

The idea that you don't want to take care of her when she is sick just sounds plain childish and egotistical. Are you as healthy as you possibly could be? Have you never done anything unhealthy? Nobody is perfect and death and sickness will reach all of us at some point. How would you feel if you got heart disease or cancer one day ( and even the healthiest of people get these) and your wife compained about taking care of you and told you because you could have exercised more and not gotten these diseases? Again, a loving marriage involves accepting someone as they are, with all their faults.

 

Regarding the other issues, maybe you could make some kind of compromise on allowing one or two junk food "treats" in the house that you eat very sparingly. Maybe you could alternate on who gets to cook and shop and set some ground rules that you both agree on for what foods will definately not be in your house. Perhaps if your wife does 100% agree on the rules you have set for your children you could compromise more until she feels comfortable enforcingthe rules you have set.

 

I have some of the same problems you do with my partner. I am somewhat of a health nut and don't want any junk in the house, and I prefer most foods to be organic. A compromise we made was that we wouldn't buy any junk food and if one of us wanted a treat we would make it ouselves from scratch. That way you control what ingredients go into it and you don't get it that often since it takes some time and effort to make things completely from scratch. Plus your children can help you and that way they will learn about cooking and nutrition. Even for a child, when they see two sticks of butter being used to make something, it puts into persepctive how much fat is in those cookies and why you shouldn't gorge on them. Perhaps you could try something like that with your family?

 

Interested in hearing how others would handle these differences as well as just open a forum on deal breakers in relationships.

 

I didn't mean to sound too harsh in my post, but to me it sounded like you are trying to control your wife's life and make your family live exactly the way you want them to, and not taking into consideration their wants. You can either divorce or compromise and learn to live with things you don't agree with, it's as simple as that, in my opinion. If you feel like you have a "My Way or the Highway" outlook on life, then I would just leave, because you will never be able to get your way on every issue. Just don't count on changing your wife into the person you want her to be, that never works.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

As a LS regular perhaps you are familiar with my situation. I can tell you that I have put up with hell and highwater BUT if he ask me to quit smoking (as much as I would like to) I'ld have to walk out the door. I understand the health concers. A family member was just diagnosed with lung cancer. I am a health care professional, (many nights suctioned my vent patients then ran out for a quick smoke) but that I don't think I could give up. ANYTHING else I could do, that however is the one vice, that no matter how badly I want to, I can't stop.

 

I hope your feelings about the seriousness of your situation haven't been feuled by recent threads on this site.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm going to be honest. I think you're very controlling. Back off to a reasonable extent on some of your requirements. It sounds like it's your way or no way.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm going to be honest. I think you're very controlling. Back off to a reasonable extent on some of your requirements. It sounds like it's your way or no way.

I agree. Hard to argue with anyone of your points but then she should also drive 65 mph or less, wear a helmet when riding a bicycle, brush after every meal, eat 9 helpings of fruits and veggies every day, etc. etc. etc. Your neither her Dad nor her mentor. Stop trying to act as such...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Curmudgeon]

Having lived with a total controller in the past (I divorced her) I'd say that would be a deal-breaker.

 

You talk about her smoking as a self-inflicted wound you wouldn't abide if it inconvenienced your life because she developed health problems. Let me remind you that marrying her was, given what you've related, a self-inflicted wound as well so I guess she should just cut you loose for being overly controlling and critical. She'd be doing you a favor, right?

 

Back to the central issue, in my marriage infidelity, even once, is a deal-breaker. Obviously not in yours. Sounds to me as if you want it all your way, especially as you obviously believe you know best and are superior.

 

You invoked the vow, "in sickness and in health." Guess you conveniently forgot the one about "forsaking all others" didn't you?

[whichwayisup]

Do you truely believe you'll be happier divorced? Is throwing away 20 years of marriage, making babies with your wife, building a life together, worth walking away from? That's alot of history out the window if you choose to end it.

 

Don't know if you did marriage counselling or just did marriage builders online...

But if she won't go to counselling right now, YOU should. It will atleast help you through what you're feeling now.

[luvstarved]

Jeez you kind of rolled my H's and my complaints about each other all into one. Weird reading that. Since I am dealing with a lot of similar stuff I won't offer advice, just some food for thought.

 

First of all, your tone is very hostile. How are you conveying your attempts to "compromise"?

 

You really sound like you just don't want to work on this anymore. Things are not going your way and you are having hissy fits over it.

 

My H and I also have conflicts over bed time, computer time, etc. We are unable to compromise on this because in the end nothing less than him having his way will do. Is that going on with you?

 

There are two realities in your marriage and we are only hearing one. And the reality that I hear is that you have contempt for your wife and are trying to control things. Yet you expect her to make the effort to be sexy for you.

 

This is your wife you are talking about. Someone you should love and respect. Yes there are always differences and conflicts but at the end of the day. if you do not love and respect her then you should not stay in this marriage.

 

I don't know whether your wife had sexual abuse in the past, but it sounds as though this could be your way of blaming her for not being sexually interested in someone that shows contempt and tries to control things. Are you sure this isn't just a convenient theory? You sound a lot like my H, very self-centered and righteous. I know that when he gets mad about something, it is someone else's fault. WHen someone else gets mad, they have emotional issues that they have to work out.

 

Are you sure you are not applying a double standard here?

 

Most women are pretty empowered these days and nobody really needs to stay in this type of toxic situation. Honestly, it sounds like you would get to this point in any relationship so I would say if you have it in yourself to look in the mirror and get the love back on track, you'd be better off. If you can't, then maybe you'd both be better off on your own. I wouldn't kid myself that there is some greener grass out there you could be rolling in. It sounds like what you need is to work on you.

 

On the general topic of dealbreakers, sexless marriage and A's both do it for me. I went through sexless marriage for a while but finally getting back on track with that, slowly. An A I wouldn't tolerate. Life's too short for this crap.

 

I might end up getting a divorce myself eventually since as I said some similar stuff is going on in my marriage. Right now we are in counseling and both want to get past the crap and get back to the love. Can it be done? Time will tell.

[portableversion]

Hello I am the original portableversion

This is a one sided conversation we don't know her side

In some ways I agree with the op. With my last job I was an organizer for a union, the crap I saw kids eat while I was door knocking, some kids refused to drink water! All they drank was kool-aid and soda, and you bet those processed foods and high fructose syrps are bad, bad stuff . And man some of those kids were friggin fat fat fat!! oh to obese at such a young age! just horrible

 

The smoking-- my wife has just threatened to cut me off of sex if I dont quit and amazingly enough she seems to have no problem avoiding sex, so Im left with masturbation.

And definietly all the sex stuff, there have been days when I read here on loveshack things that women looked forward to doing which would have been the answer of some of my most favorite fantasies and then I was overcome with such feelings of dissatisfaction --well she did compromise and met me i just need to quit smoking now

 

and that does suck I dated her because she smoked when we met, and she up and quit cold turkey!! like it was nothing I am an addict and I do enjoy it to a certain degree, but I don't smoke in the house, i go outside but ive heard others say smoking would do it for them they would be outta there

 

I have also read about the importance of both parents enforcing the rules and offering a united front to the kids; wifey is a better discipliner than me but i do at least try to chime in so the kid will be pissed at me just as much as his mommy if the kids see one parent as the enforcer and the other parent not that way the kids could scheme to pit the parents against each other

 

good luck man and just rememnber the hindus say this world is a place of misery disesase death and suffering if you start from there you can't get to dissappointed

[outofdarkness]

Hi..I've done everything else to try to work on the M...I WILL NOT quit smoking..NOT now anyway!!! It's the only thing I've got left..vice that is! As far as taking care of me when I'm old and sick from smoking, hopefully, I'll quit of my own accord for MYSELF, and you won't have to do that but if ya did...small price to pay for 10 years of cheating and abusive behavior!!!

 

Thought this might be more effective if written like it was to MY H!!! Not that he's complained, just thought it would be more effective...

[Ladyjane14]

It looks like you've had ten opinions so far including mine... and the general consensus is that 'yes.. you've got some good points but your manner is too controlling'.

 

So, the thing to do now might be to ask yourself 'why' you feel the need to assert yourself to this degree.

 

All these things that you've mentioned are negotiable, albeit some are clearly more difficult negotiations. But none of these issues ought to be "deal-breakers" for you. You two have been together for a long time and you've got alot invested. Next to that, these things are small potatoes, right? And if they're "small potatoes"... that means there's some underlying emotional cause for your distress.

 

I’m reaching a point where I’m not certain I want to remain in my marriage anymore.

 

To be honest, I think your above statement has alot to do with it... Because I think this 'uncertainty' has existed since your wife's infidelity. You've STILL not had the reassurance that you needed. You're still not confident that she's FULLY engaged in the relationship. You're still not sure she's paying strict attention to you, your wants and needs.

 

This business with the lingerie and blowjobs has ALWAYS been a symptom, if you ask me. These are 'wants' and not 'needs' and they have NO VALUE if you're dealing with a partner who isn't comfortable with these things. But you already know that don't you? That's WHY these things are at issue for you. They're a hoop you've set for her to jump through. You want her to prove that you're important enough for her to leave her comfort zone. After all, she left her "comfort zone" for him, right?

 

What you haven't factored into the equation though is that the marital relationship IS a relationship based on comfort, a relationship where we agree to actively "comfort" and support our spouse through life's tribulations. A extramarital lover doesn't necessarily CARE if we're in our "comfort zone" or not. It's not important to him. A HUSBAND is an altogether different matter. He's supposed to care.

 

Bottom line IMO... You're still angry. You're still resentful. And you still want her to PROVE herself. And I'm thinking also that there's just a little part of you that regrets the fact that you chose forgiveness over divorce. This will become self-fulfilling prophecy if you keep this up.

 

Because.. what you ALSO haven't factored in is that a WS's insecurities, doubts, and NEED for reassurance are usually every bit as big as that of the betrayed spouse... often even more so. A WS fears they will NEVER get out of the doghouse. They fear that they'll never be an equal and accepted partner again. So when you continue to ask them to prove themselves... years after the offense... they begin to understand that their fears were VALID.

 

They can't change the past. All they can do is move forward. When forgiveness lack authenticity, there's a roadblock before them which prevents forward movement. Eventually, they'll have to change their direction. There's nothing else they can do.

 

I'll be honest with you... I think you're STILL sabotaging marital recovery. I think there's a part of you that just doesn't want it. I don't know if that's because you're insecure in the idea that your wife doesn't love you enough, or if it's because you regret your decision to stay married... but in either event, you're setting this thing up for failure.

 

As I said earlier, all these previous issues can be negotiated. An adversarial approach dooms the possibility of reaching an accord though. Again, I think you already know that.

 

If my husband ordered me to quit smoking... well, let's just say I wouldn't be motivated.

But sitting me down and describing his anxiety at the prospect of losing me to a smoking-related illness, showing his emotions and his love... has made me try new medication even though I HATE the prospect of daily meds. THAT's the power of active love and active comforting.

 

You know, you're not a bad guy. You're just not getting what you need in terms of emotional intimacy within the relationship. But you've got to 'give it' in order to 'get it'.... know what I mean? You can't set yourself up as an adversary and then expect not to be met with resistance.

[Special Guest]

It looks like you've had ten opinions so far including mine... and the general consensus is that 'yes.. you've got some good points but your manner is too controlling'.

 

Thanks for all the input. I'll try to back off some as you all see me as controlling or hostile. It's interesting, because most of our friends/family would tell you my wife is the controlling one.

 

My frustration comes from having the same conversation(s) over and over and over again. I'm talking about negotiating the same areas for years, it's not like I woke up one morning at my wits end having never talked these issues over from a partnership place.

 

I've communicated my concerns for our emotional intimacy and have given and will continue to give.

 

I have made it clear to her regarding getting to the bottom of her past abuse for her well-being. I have most certainly approached this in a loving manner and I've done my best to not be adversarial. When she says okay and then another six to eight to ten months pass and she takes no action, certainly I find myself building resentment.

 

I think my resentment comes from our agreements not really being agreements to her.

 

Regarding cigarette smoking - I haven't ordered her to quit. I do have a hard time explaining to our son when he asks me why mom is still smoking two years after her promise to quit, though.

[mental_traveller]

As an unmarried guy with no kids, I know it's easy for me to say this, but I would just leave. Believe me, once you meet someone more suitable, you will shake your head at the years you pissed down the toilet in this unhappy, unfulfilling marriage. Life is not a dress rehearsal, and in a few decades you will most likely be dead. Time is too precious to waste in a relationship that makes you miserable.

 

There are so many deal-breakers here, it's hard to know where to begin. I'll try:

 

1) crap sex life

2) no attempt on her part to even try to help make your sex life better

3) wife is infecting you and your kids with lung disease and carcinogens, shows no sign of stopping or will to change

4) broke her marriage vows by letting another guy f*ck her repeatedly

5) won't discuss the various issues in her past or present that are causing all these problems

6) won't bring up kids properly

 

Dude, get out while you still have enough juice to enjoy having sex with other women.

[Surprise Guest]

Surprise Guest or Special Guest, I can’t keep my name straight.

 

Life is not a dress rehearsal, and in a few decades you will most likely be dead. Time is too precious to waste in a relationship that makes you miserable.

 

This is what I’m getting at mental traveller. I’m following Hard2Think’s Infidelity thread and I’m also tired of it. Like his position, I don't want to be away from my kids. Our culture has certainly shown that mom has the upper hand when it comes to custody in the event of a separation or divorce. I don't believe marriage should be constant negotiation; from time to time certainly something might materialize. Either that, or I'm a terrible negotiator.

 

Besides, yeast infections and vaginitis are usually not caused by diet anyways unless a woman has uncontrolled diabetes.

 

Not just diabetes. Diet certainly can play a role. Read some about gut ecology and candida.

 

I'm sure she doen't want your kids to turn out to be tubs of lard either, but maybe you should respect that she has different ideas when it comes to nutrition.

 

Let me give you an example from just this week. My daughter had a really good mint chocolate chip milkshake the other evening while we were out (I know b/c I shared some with her – I’m not a complete prick). Once we got home and I was busy unloading the car, my wife gives her chocolate milk before bed. The next morning I stepped out to get gas for the lawnmower and return to find my daughter eating chocolate chip cookies for breakfast. This is typical of almost everyday (not the cookies for breakfast, but the constant sweets). I’m not certain it’s me sabotaging marital recovery.

 

Are sure that the two of you agree on a set of rules? Do you compromise or are the rules mostly set by you. Because for her to stand behind the rules she needs to believe in them.

 

Rules are not mostly set by me. Our friends would tell you I’m a door mat; time for me to be a little more assertive. We negotiate the rules together and I am left believing we are in agreement. I desire a partnership and teamwork. For her to stand behind them requires her to sometimes not take the easy way.

 

How would you feel if she told you you are not meeting her needs and she wants to have a relationship on the side?

 

I would ask her what could I do to better fulfill her needs; exactly what I have done. I would ask her from time to time if she felt I was neglecting her in some areas and actively listen to her answers so I could consciously make changes.

 

You talk about her smoking as a self-inflicted wound you wouldn't abide if it inconvenienced your life because she developed health problems. …especially as you obviously believe you know best and are superior.

 

It’s not about inconveniencing my life. It’s about unconscious living. She is not unaware of what she is doing to her body. Signposts are everywhere. Our lungs weren’t designed to be filled day after day with ammonia, fiberglass and who knows what else. We are responsible for two young people and I want my partner to be fully engaged in that endeavor. Why would I want to support her slowly committing suicide?

 

Because I think this 'uncertainty' has existed since your wife's infidelity. You've STILL not had the reassurance that you needed. You're still not confident that she's FULLY engaged in the relationship. You're still not sure she's paying strict attention to you, your wants and needs.

 

I think my uncertainty has existed since before her A; most likely contributed to her A due to her indifference towards me.

 

Hi..I've done everything else to try to work on the M...I WILL NOT quit smoking..NOT now anyway!!!

 

Outofdarkness, what other time do you have than NOW? As mental traveller said, life is not a dress rehearsal. NOW is all there is.

[Mr. Lucky]

4) broke her marriage vows by letting another guy f*ck her repeatedly

Did you miss or just choose to ignore the part where he said they both had affairs?

 

Mr. Lucky