Weighing our wrongs

[Sheba]

Somehow, my husband and I have become entangled in a sort of bizarre competition over which one of us has been more wronged by the other.

 

We are seeing a counsellor, who seems almost overwhelmed by us at times, which perhaps paints a picture of how far gone our relationship is.

 

The counsellor quite carefully avoids "picking a side", which I am sure makes good sense since she is asked to help fix the relationship. Still, I have a need to know, from disinterested people, how bad I have been or how bad I have had it. And so I will ask this of all of you, if you will give me some of your time. I will try to be brief.

 

We have been in an exclusive relationship 10 years, lived together for 7 of those years, been married for 1 of them.

 

Problems started, I THINK, because my husband is a bit of a lothario and seems to need to get his ego stroked by attention from women. I am insecure and do not deal well with this need of his at all. In response to certain flirtatious behaviour of his I have asked for various concessions - for example that he sit beside me at a party, or that he reassure me that he has no interest in a particular woman. Sometimes, I have asked nicely and sometimes not so nicely.

 

No matter how I have asked, my husband has a very strong reaction. He feels I am accusing him of being unfaithful or wanting to be unfaithful - he actually says things like "you are saying I am trying to **** her!" He gets very angry and has absolutely refused me the concessions I have asked and told me that those sorts of requests will never be responded to and I must overcome my insecurity. When I say he "gets angry" , I mean FURIOUS. He yells and swears and calls me names and says I am ruining his life and sucking all the joy from his life and threatens to leave me.

 

There is now a huge pattern of resentment and increased insecurity in me so that I am stressed by any friendly interactions he has with other women. In turn, he has developed a conditioned response so that he gets very very angry if he has any reason to imagine that I might suggest he is flirting or inappropriate. For example, one day I walked into his office and there was a young woman in with him (the door was open) and he accused me of "following her in" to "check up on him" when in fact I had no idea at all she was there. Just coincidental timing.

 

As you might imagine, we are at a huge impasse.

 

I am at a complete loss as to which one of us needs to capitulate. It seems as if one of us needs to make the first move, but I am lost in my despair and he in his fury.

 

Thoughts?

[Trialbyfire]

Does he spend much time on the computer? Emails and such? Does he have a cell phone?

 

If so, you may want to consider some form of electronic tracker on your computer.

 

Also, does he guard his cellphone? Check his cell phone bills for consistent phone numbers over a period of months. If he text messages, take a peek at those.

 

Bank and credit card statements. Affairs are expensive.

 

Just curious because he's showing classic signs of the best defense is offense. Many of us have experienced something similar to this type of behaviour and discovered that it was the case.

 

This may not be the case but if you verify that everything is above-board, it might also help to give you a comfort level about his integrity.

[Kwo-ne'-she]

Until both of you stop trying to come out the "winner" in the blame game, there won't be much chance of saving the relationship. What does the winner get? The right to say "I told you so" and to feel better about their "lesser" mistakes? The grand prize ~ divorce?

 

Please don't take this wrong, I know how frustrating it can be when a spouse or SO is doing something and they refuse to own it. I think the therapy is good, especially if both of you learn to admit your flaws. Just try not to make it a competition about who is more wrong.

 

I would suggest taking advantage of the therapy, start talking about your own mistakes/bad habits/insecurities or whatever, and start working on you. If he refuses to work on himself, that is something he will have to live with. If nothing else, you can better yourself through the self-examination, and be happy....even if your marriage doesn't work out.

[Mustang Sally]

Well, I don't know who has been wronged more than the other, but I'll tell you this: Methinks he doth protest too much. Meaning, even if he hasn't gone through with an A, his thoughts are in that ballpark.

 

It doesn't matter who has been wronged more. It's not healthy, and I'm not sure how your R could go on like that. The other posters have some good advice and insight, I think. I wish you the best in figuring out your situation.

[quankanne]

ooh ... him refusing to listen is not good. Maybe you could back into the conversation by letting him know that you are working very hard on controlling your insecurity, and that you only ask for certain assurances (like him sitting with you or making positive contact with you from time to time at get togethers) to help you combat this. I think he sees your behavior as blaming him for something he hasn't done ("false accusations," as my husband calls it). Until he understands it's more about your response than his actual behavior, he's going to feel threatened, and will respond by screaming.

 

has your counsellor worked on communications-building in your marriage? A couple needs to learn how to talk AND to listen to each other to be successful in their relationship ...

[Sheba]

I don't have a reason to think my husband has had an affair. He has and continues to have a flirtation with a particular woman in our office (we work together) that has been the cause of a number of our fights.

 

However, our relationship with each other started as an affair while we were both going through the bad times in our prior marriages. My first marriage really was over before this relationship started, but I did still live with my first husband. I would have ended that relationship with or without the affair.

 

Since he seems clearly unhappy with me much of the time, just as he was unhappy with his previous wife when he and I got together, I worry that he will use this discord as an "excuse" for an affair. Just as he did before, when he got together with me. He even calls me "crazy" now, just as he called his last wife!

 

He would say he is mainly unhappy with me because I am insecure and I would say I am mainly insecure because he is so very unhappy with me. More than a circle, it is a spiral because it keeps going on and on.

 

It is easy for me to admit that I am insecure and on the scale of insecurity might even be considered "very". I am not sure how to work on that in the context of this relationship though. I am told repeatedly that I ruin his life and that he has "had it with me" and even that "no one would put up with [me]. This is a morass that I don't think I can fight my way out of without his capitulation and support. Alternatively, if he were gone, then a lot of the burdens of insecurity that weigh on me would go with him.