Personal Growth in an LDR

[meeji]

Recently I have come to realize that my boyfriend is a little immature. Of course all of us are in some way but his immaturity is starting to affect our relationship. I am a pretty introspective person and since we have been having problems, I have been thinking a lot about what we can do to overcome them. I have had multiple talks with him about how I'm feeling but there are things that I just can't say to him. He is pretty fragile and he beats himself up over things, always. Taking this into consideration, I have decided to be very selective about how I say and what I say to him. He is also very naive sometimes. He is a very positive thinkner, to the point where his expectations are not realistic.

 

If you have ready my previous posts, you know about the relationship journal that I started for us to write in. Well, he still hasn't written in it. I posted a list of 40 questions about personal goals and expectations within the relationship and it took him a week and a half to answer them. Part of it required me to nag and the other part of is that I honestly don't think that he had ever thought about it before. When I asked him bluntly what he wanted out of this relationship and what he wanted from him he was stupified. I am still waiting for that answer. I think the he doesn't have to skills right to think about himself in that way. He's still that little boy that is happy to be able to say that he has a girlfriend but he isn't thinking so much about all the other things that come with having one. We have already discussed plans for the future and the relocation bit, which is good but there are some of underlying issues that need to be addressed for this relationship to continue and grow properly.We are certainly past the honeymoon phase and moving into the thick of it all.

 

My question is what can I do to help him along? I've been writing journals for years so its rather easy for me to think about "the big picture." When I mailed him a care package 4 months ago I stuck a card in there. The card had a message about reconciliation after a fight. When he got my package I told him he could not open it until I told him to. We had a spat one night and I told him to open it. He did and he cried after reading it. He said that it seemed as if I wrote that card last night and he doesn't understand how I knew 4 months ago that this would happen. Everyone has arguments in their relationships at some point but he honestly thought that we would live in the land of cupcakes and unicorns forever with no **** storms.

 

I just feel like he probably shouldn't be in a relationship because he is very out of touch with himself and he should take some time to get to know him. Needless to say, I have been thinking of ideas and wondering how we can go together if I am so much further ahead of him as far as self-awareness and maturity goes. He is a great guy and he says he wants to work on it and I would like to give him a chance to do that.

 

If I were closer to him, I think it would be easier to do thought-provoking activities together but from a distance, how one facilitate personal growth? If he doesn't grow up, the relationship cannot grow and I will eventually grow out of him.

any suggestions? thoughts, opinions?

[Carenth]

My honest opinion and it may be against the grain. I'm also quite introspective however I have quite a sense on empathy as well.

 

From what you have described it may not be so much about him being immature, probably much more to do with you looking for reasons to tear him down and he's probably a bit on edge about it.

 

Case and point sending him a care package with a note he can't open and then it has something like that written on it. That does not scream maturity to me, that says I'm pretentious saying something like this "I knew you would **** up sooner or later and look you did I prepared this note for you in advance, saying congratulations you ****ed up, how clever am I right?" I know that is not what you intended but if my girlfriend pulled a stunt like that I would be thinking "what the **** is this **** what a judgmental, unkind bitch" and that would probably make me retreat more, rather than open up.

 

Which could be very much the reason why he isn't writing in this "relationship journal" which you decided he needs to write in, because he thinks you are looking for reasons to put a pike in him if he answers incorrectly.

 

If my girlfriend was hounding me to answer 40 questions about our relationship after pulling a stunt like that + other similar things (I can only assume there is more) I would be very hesitant too. I would be worried this is some sort of test I would be graded on and is most likely a lose-lose situation, if I answer the questions I'll get all sorts of hell because I answered something wrong. If I don't answer the questions I'll be accused of not caring enough about this relationship. Basically you are **** testing him, which isn't cool.

 

Sorry if that's harsh but I see it as less "we" decided this and more "I" decided this and he must comply. Seems you want him to be someone else. You may have being writing journals for years, doesn't mean he is comfortable writing in them or may not be a medium he can express himself easily, just like you have trouble expressing yourself verbally.

 

Can you give some examples of how he is not self-aware and mature, rather than spiteful things you have done to make him feel like ****? Had you even considered the reason he may be clamming up is because of the way you are treating him?

Edited December 23, 2012 by Carenth

[meeji]

My honest opinion and it may be against the grain. I'm also quite introspective however I have quite a sense on empathy as well.

 

From what you have described it may not be so much about him being immature, probably much more to do with you looking for reasons to tear him down and he's probably a bit on edge about it.

 

Case and point sending him a care package with a note he can't open and then it has something like that written on it. That does not scream maturity to me, that says I'm pretentious saying something like this "I knew you would **** up sooner or later and look you did I prepared this note for you in advance, saying congratulations you ****ed up, how clever am I right?" I know that is not what you intended but if my girlfriend pulled a stunt like that I would be thinking "what the **** is this **** what a judgmental, unkind bitch" and that would probably make me retreat more, rather than open up.

 

Which could be very much the reason why he isn't writing in this "relationship journal" which you decided he needs to write in, because he thinks you are looking for reasons to put a pike in him if he answers incorrectly.

 

If my girlfriend was hounding me to answer 40 questions about our relationship after pulling a stunt like that + other similar things (I can only assume there is more) I would be very hesitant too. I would be worried this is some sort of test I would be graded on and is most likely a lose-lose situation, if I answer the questions I'll get all sorts of hell because I answered something wrong. If I don't answer the questions I'll be accused of not caring enough about this relationship. Basically you are **** testing him, which isn't cool.

 

Sorry if that's harsh but I see it as less "we" decided this and more "I" decided this and he must comply. Seems you want him to be someone else. You may have being writing journals for years, doesn't mean he is comfortable writing in them or may not be a medium he can express himself easily, just like you have trouble expressing yourself verbally.

 

Can you give some examples of how he is not self-aware and mature, rather than spiteful things you have done to make him feel like ****? Had you even considered the reason he may be clamming up is because of the way you are treating him?

 

The 40 questions came before the card. The 40 questions came from a articled titled "Questions to ask before you take your relationship to the next level." We both answered them so that we could compare answers. It wasn't a trick. They included things about wanting children, feelings about marriage, career goals and relationship questions like "What do I do that makes you feel loved, what are your turn offs, what things can we improve and what is working great for us." I didn't just drill him with trick questions, like you described. I wanted to know his honest opinion about these topics and I offered mine just to see how similar and different they are for us. Think of of as a team building exercise. So many times I see"He wants kids and I don't, or I love her but I don't want to leave my job to move there." I just wanted to open up the dialogue to get those ideas out in the open before anyone puts their eggs in one basket. I understand your point of view but I also think that these kinds of issues should be discussed in any relationship, especially a long distance one when discussing the future together.

 

Second of all, we send big packages because shipping is expensive and we don;t do it often. We send things that can't be opened until later, like anniversary gifts ect only because we shipped it in one big package instead of multiple small ones to make it easier. He likes that element of surprise and I do too.

 

The card was an inspirational card that had a printed message about how life throws you surprises sometimes and its a lot easier to give up than see it through. It compared life to a video game and talked about beating the game. (he is a gamer) I wrote a message in there about how I felt about him (which was all lovey-dovey things) and reminded him why we got together in the first place. I also mentioned something about knowing that our LDR would be hard but I was going to stick it out. You are definitely wrong about me putting him on blast and telling him he ****ed up. It wasn't anything like that at all.I knew that the distance would eventually start to have an affect on us at some point. He said it made him emotional because he thought it was a very touching card. That's all.

 

I do not have problems expressing myself verbally. All of came about because he has a hard time doing so. He likes to think about every single word before he says something, which is fine. I thought that if he has somewhere to write them down, he could stew on it, edit and then show it to me once his thoughts were collected. This was my attempt to take off that edge that comes about when you are in a conversation with something and responses fly quick. Like I said, we have discussed all of this. He has only had one gf and he is the type that gives and gives all the time. Maybe he has been so wrapped up in what other people want and pleasing them than worrying about himself. He can't say no to his friends and often falls into peer pressure because he wont express his objections to his friends. He has a tendency to ignore anything negative things and pretend they aren't happening, like when his "friends" mock him over being vegan. Too many times he became the joke in facebook threads and I didnt understand why he let it continue on.

 

I appreciate you honest in your re ply. Its never a bad thing to see things from a different perspective. I just think you were a little off on this one.

[Carenth]

Ah I see that extra information clears things up a bit. Just the way you were talking about him in the first post seemed overly negative and came off as somewhat pretentious too me. Though that is the medium of text different people read different tones.

 

So basically it boils down to you not liking parts of his personality, he won't stand up for what he believes in (friends giving him **** and he just ignores it for example), tries to be upbeat all the time which I don't see as a bad thing unless you are an extreme pessimist. Some people are givers they are like that by nature, my mother is like that she will give all she has got and forgets about her self sometimes. That doesn't mean he's not in touch with himself though.

 

The 40 questions thing yeah ok I get it is important to talk about those things and I agree just in that format it seems kind of cold don't you think? Kind of like walking into a store and asking the person at the desk "One form to apply for a relationship please!" and them replying "Oh sure fill out form A712 and the questions below make sure to mark and sign subsection F12 or it won't be accepted must be submitted within one week no tardiness will be tolerated *tutt tutt*"

 

I think having a conversation about these sorts of things rather than just dumping a list of questions, you said you have had many conversations about this stuff anyway so yeah don't see the point of the mass question dump was.

 

I still don't really understand what you are trying to extract or expect of him. I don't think these things are really linked to self-awareness or immaturity necessarily. I still think you are testing him for some reason, why I don't know.

 

My question to you is do you really want "self growth" or for him to grow into something you want? How do you want him to grow up? I'm assuming kicking his friend to the curb when they diss him and accepting negative situations as glass half empty rather than glass half full?

Edited December 23, 2012 by Carenth

[justwhoiam]

I can't tell you how to make him more mature, but you only see things from YOUR point of view and never even tried to see things from his end. Have you ever thought he could have something to teach you? Did that cross your mind? Or do you really think YOURS is the way to go? The correct approach? You read Carenth's point of view, that gave you a male perspective.

 

I am a woman, but I can tell you lack spontaneity. Be lighter please. You are ruining the magic. I'm not saying that you shouldn't fit practical matters in your relationship. That must have its place too. But you are definitely forcing things. Sometimes, he might say yes to you out of desperation, to avoid the nth fight/discussion, to make you happy, like for the 40 questions he had to answer. You must accept there might be things he's not looking forward to, that he doesn't like. Just as if he trapped you with a 12-hour match marathon you must watch with him. I'm not sure you would be really happy about it. You might do that just because you know that will make him happy, out of love. (If you love any sport match, then replace the above with something else, and you get the picture).

 

Don't judge him on that. My partner promised me to write stuff on himself one year and a half ago and he didn't. I brought this up quite a few times already but at a certain point, I gave up. He did not mean to let me down, one fine day he let me know that he was not looking forward to it... because it would bring back things of the past he didn't feel like going through... I just let it go and I hope one day he will do that, on his own, out of love, for me. I won't force that. It would lose its meaning. I'm waiting for the day when he will do that. You need to let him be a little. Don't force him to be someone else just to please you. It will turn against you very soon. Learn to love him for who he is. Or leave him, because he will make you unhappy. You'll have to constantly nag for him to do things for you.

Edited December 23, 2012 by justwhoiam

[meeji]

Ah I see that extra information clears things up a bit. Just the way you were talking about him in the first post seemed overly negative and came off as somewhat pretentious too me. Though that is the medium of text different people read different tones.

 

So basically it boils down to you not liking parts of his personality, he won't stand up for what he believes in (friends giving him **** and he just ignores it for example), tries to be upbeat all the time which I don't see as a bad thing unless you are an extreme pessimist. Some people are givers they are like that by nature, my mother is like that she will give all she has got and forgets about her self sometimes. That doesn't mean he's not in touch with himself though.

 

The 40 questions thing yeah ok I get it is important to talk about those things and I agree just in that format it seems kind of cold don't you think? Kind of like walking into a store and asking the person at the desk "One form to apply for a relationship please!" and them replying "Oh sure fill out form A712 and the questions below make sure to mark and sign subsection F12 or it won't be accepted must be submitted within one week no tardiness will be tolerated *tutt tutt*"

 

I think having a conversation about these sorts of things rather than just dumping a list of questions, you said you have had many conversations about this stuff anyway so yeah don't see the point of the mass question dump was.

 

I still don't really understand what you are trying to extract or expect of him. I don't think these things are really linked to self-awareness or immaturity necessarily. I still think you are testing him for some reason, why I don't know.

 

My question to you is do you really want "self growth" or for him to grow into something you want? How do you want him to grow up? I'm assuming kicking his friend to the curb when they diss him and accepting negative situations as glass half empty rather than glass half full?

 

As I explained earlier, we had a talk about a lot of the issues in the list of questions but he was struggling to find answers. When I noticed how hard it was for him, I thought of the journal. If he has time to think about his answers then the pressure isn't so thick. That was my thinking anyway.

 

Of course he has things to teach me. I have learned quite a bit since the beginning of our relationship. Its not like I'm sitting here saying I'm perfect and he has to change his personality or else. He agrees that he is immature in ways. He told me that when his last girlfriend left him she said that was the reason why. I know she left him for someone else and their live-in situation left her with all the household responsibilities. Anyway, I guess it is hard to really understand something fully without a clear picture. I'm not attacking him or putting down. I just wanted to know of different Ideas. I'm totally willing to do anything that I suggest for him to him. This is not a holier than thou post.

 

I do not want to choose his friends him, nor do I have a problem with the ones he has. I;m not concerned about that. What concerns me is whhen he comes home and tells me about how ****ty the things they said made him feel and when I ask "why don't you tell them that it makes you feel that way?" He says he doesn't want to cause problems. They are prpbably just joking but he hasn't expressed his true feelings about it, smiles and laughs it off they think that he is amused. Thats what bothers me. His friends would probably stop if he would just say something. There is more to it but this is a forum and I have already written an essay. lolThank you for the feedback.

[meeji]

I can't tell you how to make him more mature, but you only see things from YOUR point of view and never even tried to see things from his end. Have you ever thought he could have something to teach you? Did that cross your mind? Or do you really think YOURS is the way to go? The correct approach? You read Carenth's point of view, that gave you a male perspective.

 

I am a woman, but I can tell you lack spontaneity. Be lighter please. You are ruining the magic. I'm not saying that you shouldn't fit practical matters in your relationship. That must have its place too. But you are definitely forcing things. Sometimes, he might say yes to you out of desperation, to avoid the nth fight/discussion, to make you happy, like for the 40 questions he had to answer. You must accept there might be things he's not looking forward to, that he doesn't like. Just as if he trapped you with a 12-hour match marathon you must watch with him. I'm not sure you would be really happy about it. You might do that just because you know that will make him happy, out of love. (If you love any sport match, then replace the above with something else, and you get the picture).

 

Don't judge him on that. My partner promised me to write stuff on himself one year and a half ago and he didn't. I brought this up quite a few times already but at a certain point, I gave up. He did not mean to let me down, one fine day he let me know that he was not looking forward to it... because it would bring back things of the past he didn't feel like going through... I just let it go and I hope one day he will do that, on his own, out of love, for me. I won't force that. It would lose its meaning. I'm waiting for the day when he will do that. You need to let him be a little. Don't force him to be someone else just to please you. It will turn against you very soon. Learn to love him for who he is. Or leave him, because he will make you unhappy. You'll have to constantly nag for him to do things for you.

 

Thanks for the comment.

[meeji]

He finally wrote in the journal.

He pretty much confirmed what I was feeling. These statements in a nutshell, sum up his feelings about the future. P.S English is not his native language, so grammar Nazis, please take your seats. lol

 

"But I annalize what Im doing, and Im not being there for you, im not commiting enough to this relationship, why? because Im unsure I can deal with the whole thing. Yes, im a coward, I am not ready, and you have been months ago, and I thought it was all so clear, so easy. Obviously I was wrong, as it usually is, damn.. I have so much to learn still, it was stupid of me to think im a fully capable grown man, I can't even take care of myself properly, how am I supposed to take care of something so special as another human being."

 

"Maybe I was the one that for once had someone that cared, and that made me feel alive again, like a stupid teenager in love, I coudln't help it, thats the way I felt, and in a way, I think you could say I used you, I know you are going to think that, and I know that sounds terrible. I want to be the best guy, and the good guy that is there for you, and helps everyone, and doesn't let anyone down, ive been trying my whole life. But I never learn the lesson, I can't please everybody. No matter how many times I make the same mistake, I always do it again..."

 

"What was I doing in that web in the first place? what was I expecting? I always said I wanted to move to the US, since I was a teenager, but the vision I had is not exactly the reality, you told me that. Was I expecting to meet a girl, and have a girlfriend long distance? I was obviously stupid, because I promissed myself i didn't want a long distance relationship, what was my plan? I had none, just like you say, I don't have the capacity to plan ahead of me, and that is what i believe originated the whole dilema I am in now. "

 

"I am ashamed to admit it, but its the truth, im scared. I don't know what to do anymore."

 

I'm glad that he is being honest about everything and I hope that he feels better getting it off of his chest. He will be here in 23 days and we will have plenty of time to talk about it. I wonder if i should hang out in the background so that he can clear his head, prior to his visit here.

 

What do you guys think? He says he is excited about seeing me and he want to keep trying with the relationship, which is a good thing. I must say that I am a little apprehensive thought about continuing to invest in something that is already wavering. Do I hit the brakes and let him catch up? Do I continue doing what I've been and hope for the best or should I make it easy for him and break it off?

[Aedra]

What do you guys think? He says he is excited about seeing me and he want to keep trying with the relationship, which is a good thing. I must say that I am a little apprehensive thought about continuing to invest in something that is already wavering. Do I hit the brakes and let him catch up? Do I continue doing what I've been and hope for the best or should I make it easy for him and break it off?

 

To be honest, I think you already know the answer. His journey entry, as you said, confirms what you felt. I agree with the other person. I think you should let go and let him find who is authentic self is. I'm not saying he isn't a great guy or doesn't genuinely love you despite his confusion about things, but you're not on the same page as him right now and is he obviously not everything you want in a partner right now either. If he eventually comes back into your life, perhaps it'll show if it was meant to be. Hope that helps in some way.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Aedra

[umirano]

From all your accounts, it looks like the two of you are going nowhere... It's hard to do, I know very well myself as I'm in a similar situation, but you'll eventually have to ditch him. It doesn't look like he will change much in the foreseeable future.

[meeji]

I appreciate the honest responses. I have talked with him and he freaked out when I tried to end it. He will be here in about 3 weeks ans we will be able to discuss everything face to face.

 

Thanks guys