Semantics

[FilterCoffee]

I had an interesting text chat with a girl yesterday. Just to give you a bit of backstory, she’s in my salsa class and on Saturday the entire group went to a bar before I hosted her and another guy at my place for more drinks. My intention was to separate her from the group but unfortunately this other guy, who’s also interested in her, tagged along the entire freaking night and was a class A cockblock. Nonetheless, I was happy overall with how the night went because she seemed quite receptive to me touching her plus she got to spend some time in my house so hopefully she’ll be comfortable with me bringing her home again.

 

Yesterday, I decided to push myself a bit and ask her out. I usually never ask a girl out if I’ll have to see her regularly because I thought it would be weird if I got rejected but I was excited about trying something new and went for it. Before I sent my first text, I strategised my approach and even wrote a short script. While I could only go over the first half before the conversation flowed in another direction, I felt writing the script was immensely helpful because it gave me direction and also got my creative juices flowing for quick flirty remarks. Another aspect that was novel to me was that I was going after a girl with a boyfriend. She had mentioned him only once on Saturday and I couldn’t say for sure if he was fictitious or real. She sure did enjoy the attention of two guys that were into her.

 

Some time during the middle of our text chat, I decided to lay my cards down and tell her how I felt.

 

Me: Haha look, I like you. I want to go dancing with you ALONE. What do you say about dancing on the 21st floor at this hot new club? Say Friday or Saturday. But we’ll have to get ice cream before I drop you back!

 

Silence. What was once a flowing interaction completely stopped but I waited and let the tension stay. Ten minutes later.

 

Her: Haha you know I have a boyfriend

 

Me: Oh that’s ok. You can keep him. I just want us to go dancing and get ice cream.

 

Her: Now that I like

 

So I figured great, she seems interested but then she brings up inviting others. I tell her I want her to myself and then she starts making lame excuses that the venue is too far (it’s not) and that Friday she’ll get off late (8 pm at the latest when the place I’m taking her to is open till 1). I was able to brush these concerns aside quite easily but she kept asking why I didn’t want others. She was basically trying to act dumb and pretend like I wasn’t asking her out so I said the following. This is where things get interesting.

 

Me: Sorry if I was unclear. I like you and I find you attractive. I’m asking you out on a date. Hence why I don’t want anyone else there.

 

Her: Haha I don’t do dates FilterCoffee

 

Me: And why is that?

 

Her: Cause I have a boyfriend and don’t need to

 

Me: And I’m happy you do. I don’t want you to break up with him or anything. But I would like to take you out.

 

Her: Have you ever come across those super committed girls ??

 

Me: Never heard of such a thing.

 

Her: Love the answer. You don’t have to take me out.

We can just hangout. No date. Like I told you I don’t do dates. I’m cool for hanging out

 

From here I fixed the plans and ended the chat. At the end of this experiment, what I gathered was that even though:

1. She has a boyfriend of 7 years.
   
2. I’m a touchy guy who’s expressed romantic interest in her.
   
3. I’m taking her to a fancy nightclub on a Friday night alone.
   

She’s ok with all of this as long as I call it a “hangout” and not a “date”. She basically needed a guise to hide behind in order to accept my invitation. This really shocked me because she has to know what I’m doing. I couldn’t have been more explicit so why the denial? I shared this story with a colleague and she told me a similar experience she went through when she was in a relationship. In fact, my ex did the same thing with a guy she knew who liked her. Now Friday night may not happen but my biggest learning is that nonverbals, such as touch and words that are unspoken, always communicate more than words.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Sorry, FC, the creep factor in this whole story is a 9 out of 10. Leave this girl alone. She has a boyfriend and you were REALLY putting her on the spot and making her uncomfortable!

Edited May 30, 2018 by CautiouslyOptimistic

[FilterCoffee]

Sorry, FC, the creep factor in this whole story is a 9 out of 10. Leave this girl alone. She has a boyfriend and you were REALLY putting her on the spot and making her uncomfortable!

 

Hey CO,

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Yes, I was a bit pushy but I’m making a conscious effort to snap out of my good guy tendencies. I’m generally good at identifying a girl with no interest. I NEVER go after girls who show no interest. But with her, i got the feeling that something might be there. We’ll know soon enough.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Hey CO,

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Yes, I was a bit pushy but I’m making a conscious effort to snap out of my good guy tendencies. I’m generally good at identifying a girl with no interest. I NEVER go after girls who show no interest. But with her, i got the feeling that something might be there. We’ll know soon enough.

 

Whatever floats your boat.

[carhill]

IMO, analyze semantics less and enjoy moments more. If you're attracted, express that authentically in the moment. Relationships, and it seems marriages too, are increasingly transitory. All rule-followers do is put themselves in the prison of their rules. Sure, it might feel all righteous to have a bunch of guard rails and signs and clearly marked offramps but who is out there enjoying life? Hint: She is

 

However, I wouldn't waste time and energy on her if looking for wife/mother material. What you described is likely incompatible with your image of such a partner, for you. She might be perfect for another guy, perhaps her current boyfriend, if real. I've interacted with a lot of MW's in life to varying degrees and, post-20's, was pretty clear that none willing to step out on their H's, even to a limited degree, would make a wife or mother I'd want to commit to. You may feel differently.

 

If the 'hangout' goes well, next time call her instead of the text thing. It's innocent; you're hanging out. Plus, flirting is fun on the phone. Humor is easier to flow, not as easy as in person but still easier. Humor is IME an important lubricator of romance and emotion. Remember, it's fun. Not serious. She has a boyfriend

[FilterCoffee]

IMO, analyze semantics less and enjoy moments more. If you're attracted, express that authentically in the moment. Relationships, and it seems marriages too, are increasingly transitory. All rule-followers do is put themselves in the prison of their rules. Sure, it might feel all righteous to have a bunch of guard rails and signs and clearly marked offramps but who is out there enjoying life? Hint: She is

 

However, I wouldn't waste time and energy on her if looking for wife/mother material. What you described is likely incompatible with your image of such a partner, for you. She might be perfect for another guy, perhaps her current boyfriend, if real. I've interacted with a lot of MW's in life to varying degrees and, post-20's, was pretty clear that none willing to step out on their H's, even to a limited degree, would make a wife or mother I'd want to commit to. You may feel differently.

 

If the 'hangout' goes well, next time call her instead of the text thing. It's innocent; you're hanging out. Plus, flirting is fun on the phone. Humor is easier to flow, not as easy as in person but still easier. Humor is IME an important lubricator of romance and emotion. Remember, it's fun. Not serious. She has a boyfriend

 

Hey carhill,

 

I’m not looking for a wife or even a girlfriend. I just want to go out on dates with attractive people and have fun. Nothing serious.

 

About going after girls with boyfriends. My position on this has changed over the last year or so. Not too long ago, I would never have considered it. In fact my ex left me when another guy came along. For a very long time I was hurt but then I realised that I had messed up a bit and another guy could make her feel good when I was failing. Sure, I wasn’t all bad and I would’ve liked it if she didn’t leave me because of him but she did what felt right for her and now I don’t fault her for it. And in my age group, 20-30, every single attractive girl is either beginning, in the middle of or ending a relationship. Very few are actually single because they have plenty of options. So it doesn’t make sense to wait.

[carhill]

The cool thing about hanging out is everyone is independent. You're not 'taking her out on a date'. Remember that when the bill comes

 

Line up 3 or 4 such hangout partners and you'll have quite a social calendar. Also, hanging out allows for more opportunities to meet truly single ladies or other hangout partners. Watch how women juggle multiple men while having a husband or boyfriend at home. Learn. They can be great teachers. Don't be afraid of hurting their feelers. It's not serious, rather fun. Hanging out.

[frigginlost]

I think if I was this chick's boyfriend and I found out about things you have stated (and trust me, if she is any kind of good woman, she's gonna tell her boyfriend about you) I would be putting my own "script" together on how to help your teeth depart from your jaw.

 

Tread carefully here, dude. Your arrogance is going to come back to bite you in the a$$...

[Art_Critic]

IMO, this is classic friend zone material, push till you get something, anything and they feel no threat to their current relationship.

 

 

No way is she thinking of dumping him for you, at least not for real...

 

 

I wouldn't spend any more time on her, look for someone who isn't all ready in a committed relationship.

You could wait around for them to breakup but by then there will be no way out of the friendzone.

[Romantic_Antics]

I’m making a conscious effort to snap out of my good guy tendencies.

 

Contrary to popular myth, most women like good guys. What they don't like are spineless pushovers who fold like origami.

 

I think you should leave this gal alone before it backfires on you and you're black balled by the entire dance group. Would you like it if you had a girlfriend and found out that another man was hitting on her and asking her out on dates?

[basil67]

That was quite predatory behaviour you were doing there. Pushing a girl who's already said "no" is very risky behaviour in these days of #metoo

 

When a woman firmly says "no" to a suggestion you make, the best course of action is to respect her answer. Even if she's been flirting with you. Pushing and pushing is no longer a good look. (though I'm not sure it ever was)

 

And yeah, I don't fancy being you if/when her boyfriend sees this text exchange.

[mortensorchid]

I would just leave this one alone. She told you she has a bf, but you seem to be pushing it further thinking that she would like you instead of him if she gives you a shot, which she doesn't seem to want to do. She is attempting to include others in this because she wants to take the pressure off and not let you have any ideas about "making a move" because they are there. Just be friendly if and when you see her again, close the books and move on.

[Zahara]

I think she was just being polite and trying to avoid any awkwardness since you’re all in the same class. Personally, if I was approached by guy that was pushy and didn’t have much of a moral compass in terms of pursuing me even when I’m telling him no and that I have a boyfriend, it would be a huge turn off. If anything she’s likely looking at you as a player/sleaze.

 

Don’t stop being the good guy just because you’ve been burned.

[bathtub-row]

All of the above, plus what’s this crap about asking someone out via text? You would’ve lost me right there — aside from all the other red flags flying around like a bloodbath.