RoosterFrame Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 When a girl doesn't kiss you on the first date, does it typically mean she's not into you? Read below for unique circumstances. Me -- 32y/o M. Her 31 y/o F. The twist in this case: I'm her intern at a small independent film production company which makes the dynamic a bit odd. I've been there for 6 months now and the films are coming to a close this next month. To be clear about my position, I have a Master's degree and make my annual money four months out of the year in another profession. I'm economically stable and well-educated is my point. The film pursuit is one of passion in my spare time. We'd been spending an increasing amount of time together outside of work. I finally asked her out to dinner at a nice place. I picked her up at her place and was dressed nicely as was she. They brought the check when I was in the restroom and she let me pay which is what I wanted. I opened doors for her. Pretty sure we both knew it was a date. Dinner went well. Lots of eye contact, laughing, etc. We both created fun reasons to see each other outside of work again. She invited me to a cocktail party afterwards at her friends' house afterwards (I sort of know this friend). She and I were the last two at the cocktail party and she keeps wanting to continue the evening. She is leaning in towards me at the table, etc. Then I take her home and drop her off. She didn't invite me up (which I didn't expect). I left my truck running, lights on, and seatbelt on. She thanked me for dinner again - I thank her for joining me and we both know we'll see each other again soon based on previous reasons stated during the night. She reached over and hugged me and then proceeded to stay in my truck for about another 30 minutes. Here's the kicker. She stayed in my car for about 45 minutes total but we didn't kiss. After about 15-20 minutes, I turned my truck and lights off. When I would make eye contact with her or lean in, she would look away and look back quickly or lean back a bit and was acting really nervous. BUT, she stayed in my truck and kept continuing the conversation, asking questions about me, etc. Her body language suggested she was not ready to kiss me. The fact that she stayed in my truck and kept up the conversation, suggests there was some interest. Until she got in my truck, we were locking eyes the entire rest of the night. Total date was 7 hours. My question for the forum is, do you think she didn't kiss me because she wasn't into me or some other reason? Two important things to note... 1) At dinner, she mentioned that she disagreed with women being taught to hug to show affection as children. She further mentioned that she didn't think women should feel obligated to show their affection to someone through physical touch until they were ready. Of course, I agree but just thought it was a bit odd to bring up. 2) Our date was on Friday (12/18). She leaves 12/20-12/26 for the holidays. Then we both go out of town on separate trips 12/28-1/3. Holiday travel will be a bit of an obstacle to momentum for now. Within the next few days I plan to find something fun to do and ask her out for the 27th. Any other thoughts on this situation?
d0nnivain Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 She's not a physically affectionate person. A kiss on the 1st date is not part of who she is. It's not you; she would not have kissed anybody. 1
smackie9 Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 Step one : turn off your truck step two: undo your seat belt step three: tell her how much fun you had and would like to see her again. step four: get out and open her door for her and walk her to the door. step five: hug, then pull back a little so you are face to face, quick kiss on the lips, smile.....if she moves in go for it. IMO you two have already spent a lot of one on one time already so moving in for a kiss would have been appropriate. 2
smackie9 Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 I do agree to watch for the reactions BUT it's a confined space with no escape lol.....a front door is like a safety net for some women. So if the timing was off they can just slip away inside lol. The only way to know interest is if they say yes to another date. Pretty simple. dating during the holidays is so difficult because of other engagements that are to be attended with friends and family. 1
smackie9 Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 OP relax and enjoy the holidays.....hope all goes well. 1
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 20, 2015 Author Posted December 20, 2015 @smackie9, hahaha! good points across the board, my friend. thanks for throwing it all out there. i esp. like the step 5. : ) I agree that I should've walked her to the door. In those scenarios, I'm used to the girl extending an invite to "come up" so I didn't want to put pressure on her which is why I chose not to. I sent her a witty and thoughtful text (complete with a photo and emoji, duh) the next day referencing something cool that happened on our date. I didn't say "Had a great time. Can't wait to see you again". I'm learning that I need to be more straightforward with women moving forward. Like crystal clear. Her female friend and her BF (whose cocktail party we went to together) have been contacting me yesterday and today (she gave them my phone number with my permission) and said how much they enjoyed seeing me and how we should hang out over the holidays. Seems like a good sign. I'll ask her out in a few days for the 27th and see what happens.
RedRobin Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I never kiss a guy on a first date... And tend to dump a guy who tries.
Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I never kiss a guy on a first date... And tend to dump a guy who tries. Yeah like a woman doesn't actually owe you anything just because you paid her a complement or paid for a meal you know? I think it's sad that sometimes a man will jump to the conclusion that a woman is not interested because he couldn't get a kiss out of her on the first date! like dude! you don't even know her! get to know her, there is something nice about a courtship right? and waiting is not bad, it's a time to really get to know who she is as a person. I think if a woman doesn't kiss you straight away it shows that she has a personal level of restraint and self respect. I have had guys want to kiss me on the first date, I kiss them on the second and by about three weeks the dump me after I sleep with them. They got what they wanted. Once I kiss them and let go of that first boundary they just expected they could get away with more until they got what they wanted and they dump me. Such a great way to feel respected. If you really liked her, you would not worry about getting a kiss out of her but rather spent some time getting to know her personally.
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 21, 2015 Author Posted December 21, 2015 I think it's sad that sometimes a man will jump to the conclusion that a woman is not interested because he couldn't get a kiss out of her on the first date! like dude! Totally agreed that a woman doesn't owe a man anything. I didn't expect a kiss and don't think she owed me one. The date went 7 hours and she invited me to a cocktail party with her friends afterwards. you don't even know her!get to know her, there is something nice about a courtship right? and waiting is not bad, it's a time to really get to know who she is as a person. We've worked together for 6 months. We'd also spent time together outside of work in some capacity (hiking, climbing, live music, group dinner, creative brainstorm session) four times over the previous two and a half weeks. Sometimes in groups, etc. If you really liked her, you would not worry about getting a kiss out of her but rather spent some time getting to know her personally I'm not worried about it -- moreso curious if I'd be wasting my time given the context. I have a fun/romantic daytime date planned to ask her out on for when she gets back from the holidays. I think that sends a message that I like her, want to spend time with her and am not interested in just sleeping with her.
Snakechammah Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Well, it's common. Not all girls kiss on the first date. I went out with my crush from work on our first date and we didn't kiss. There were moments when he leaned in but I swerved my head gently so he didn't try. Towards the end, he abruptly gave me a hug. I hugged him back (a little platonically) and he kissed me on my cheek instead. It doesn't mean I don't like him. Hell, I am crushing madly on the guy!! It was on the second date that we kissed. It turned out to be the most magical kiss in my entire life!! The date started out badly cos it was actually a 'confrontational' date (we were about to go to war, literally - long story). Things calmed down and we were sitting by the park, making small talk. Out of the blue, he lifted my chin and kissed me! I was too shocked to move. He looked straight into my eyes and said he wants things to go further between us (e.g more than friends/colleagues). I was still frozen and had to blink a few times. That moment is one I'll never forget. How sudden and how passionate his kiss was - totally blew me over! So there - make YOUR FIRST KISS magical!!! it doesn't have to be on the first date! All the best! Keep us posted!
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 Alright, fam. Quick update. I texted her something funny referencing our date the day after and all I got was an "Lol". Today - 2 days later - I texted her something else funny this afternoon and got no response. I didn't send it with the intention of striking up a converstation. I noticed that this evening that she had time to make a FB post of a photo of her and her best friend at a bar in her hometown she's visiting. Seems stupid, but that's where social media just makes sh*t weird. If I'm making it too weird, someone please call me out and tell me why. I should add that the entire time I've known her - work, etc. - her text game has been pretty bland. Still not certain that warrants a no response. Of course I didn't take it personal -- she's with her best friends and family whom she's super-tight with and lives 2000 miles from sees rarely. She's excited to be there. I am wondering if I should take it as a sign of disinterest though. I still think an interested girl would text back. What about a shy interested girl? For what it's worth, she was one of the first people to like an Instagram post I put up this AM. This is the crux of trying to build momentum at the holidays. She's out of town with her family and best friends 12/20-12/26. She's going out of town again 12/28-1/2. I'm out of town 12/30-1/3. Few questions. 1) Should I take her texting (or lack thereof) as a sign of disinterest? 2) Given her lack of texting, should I continue on with my plan to ask her out by text for something on the one day we're both in town (12/27)? I intended to do that tomorrow or the next day. 3) Should I just let it sit until after the holidays? If I did this, I do have a reason to try to see her on the 27th in a non-date context and I could ask her out for something after January 3rd. They say timing is everything. Thoughts?
Matt Uchiha Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Stop trying to game women over the phone. TAKE ACTION WHEN YOU'RE ON A DATE WITH THEM. All that cutesy texting bs is for her and her girlfriends. She wants a man. Not a woman with a pen!s. Man up and take charge when you're on a date with another woman. Be confident and go in for the kiss or the bang. Don't over think it. Just do it.
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 That's legit advice but it's irrelevant to my current circumstances that I'm asking about.
Versacehottie Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Step one : turn off your truck step two: undo your seat belt step three: tell her how much fun you had and would like to see her again. step four: get out and open her door for her and walk her to the door. step five: hug, then pull back a little so you are face to face, quick kiss on the lips, smile.....if she moves in go for it. Yep, agree with the above. OP, you realize your actions by leaving the truck running convey something to her, right? She is probably worried about crossing a line with you. Because you work together and have started this under the pretense of friends even though it's obviously dating, crossing the line to make it clearly a dating arrangement is a little tougher than normal. Also the thing about her telling you about physical affection was a little odd. It's a little odd in general but if that's how she feels.... Anyway, sounds like a hint that she was not going to do anything physical with you that night and was trying to tell you or give you a warning. Break it down into baby steps. Rather than worrying solely about a kiss (especially with a girl like this it can be too jarring anyway)--next date, do small things like touch her arm, linger your hand when you guiding her somewhere etc, put your hand on her leg for a moment. See how she reacts physically. It should be "good" to be considered a green light. Also about asking her out for the 27th, don't be disappointed and take it badly if she can't go. She only has one day between trips--will probably be tired and preparing for the next one. Won't have a bearing on what she thinks of you. And IMO you should have already asked when you two were discussing your schedules. Well I guess you could make it very spontaneous and that's what you should do. Quick holiday drink (of course if it goes longer that's good). Good luck
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 Yep, agree with the above. OP, you realize your actions by leaving the truck running convey something to her, right? Hahaha, yes now I do! My reasons for not turning off the truck were because of what she said earlier in the night, she didn't invite me up, and this was the first time intern/supervisor out together on what we both recognized as a date. It's the past and I'd like to think I can recover from it. Also about asking her out for the 27th, don't be disappointed and take it badly if she can't go. She only has one day between trips--will probably be tired and preparing for the next one. Won't have a bearing on what she thinks of you. And IMO you should have already asked when you two were discussing your schedules. Well I guess you could make it very spontaneous and that's what you should do. Quick holiday drink (of course if it goes longer that's good). Good luck So you think it's cool to text message ask her out for the 27th while she's away with family for the holidays? Something I didn't mention in my other post was yesterday was her dad's birthday who passed away last year. So, the combo of her dad's birthday and the holidays may make for weird timing. My other idea is this... Before she left, she mentioned that she was interested in borrowing a few things from me for a camping trip that she's taking for New Year's. I think this is a great, quick casual reason to see her again. I would take the lead on setting this up. Then, in person I will reiterate that I had a good time at dinner a couple weeks back and ask her out for the 4th (day after I get back from my trip). Also, seems weird to text her anytime soon when I haven't gotten much from her via text.
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 When to call? Schedule a date on the phone?
smackie9 Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 When to call? Schedule a date on the phone? Call her tonight, chat and ask if she is up for a quick coffee date and to go look at some light displays for an hour or two.
truth_seeker Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 At the end of a date, if all goes well, and I'm driving the gal home, I'll make sure to have on Barry White's "I've Got So Much to Give". By the time we get to her place, and we're at her door, she's begging me to to come in for "coffee".
Rydo Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 I wouldn't go on a second date with someone that I didn't get a kiss out of on the first but it sounds like you didn't even go for it. Just ask her out again by phone/text and if she says yes make a move next time.
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 smackie9, she's out of town until the 26th, then leaves again on the 28th. She's also busy making the rounds with her mom seeing all of her family/friends. Seems to be bad timing, no? Also, seems a bit needy when she didn't respond to my other light-hearted text message, no? I figured let it sit for a couple days. Rydo, yeah I didn't too much. But I had my reasons as I posted about. Her body language was mixed. Remember, I'm her intern and she's my supervisor and this was our first time out on a proper date.
Versacehottie Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 So you think it's cool to text message ask her out for the 27th while she's away with family for the holidays? Something I didn't mention in my other post was yesterday was her dad's birthday who passed away last year. So, the combo of her dad's birthday and the holidays may make for weird timing. My other idea is this... Before she left, she mentioned that she was interested in borrowing a few things from me for a camping trip that she's taking for New Year's. I think this is a great, quick casual reason to see her again. I would take the lead on setting this up. Then, in person I will reiterate that I had a good time at dinner a couple weeks back and ask her out for the 4th (day after I get back from my trip). Also, seems weird to text her anytime soon when I haven't gotten much from her via text. For me, the text would be fine. Less intrusive considering she is with family, the whole dad memory at this time of year. If she hadn't responded to your last text, I personally think a phone call combined with her being with family at the holidays is a little desperate (if she is on the fence at all which it does sound like she is hesitant somewhat). So I would do the text. I wouldn't go straight into asking her out. I would ask her how her holidays are going. hopefully something came up on your date or knowing her through work that you can reference playfully. You need to build a connection. Then ideally the texting would go back and forth a few times over a couple of the next days (or she could be really responsive in which case stay on it and do several including the question about the 27th). As the texting goes back and forth, at some point say hey what stuff did you want to borrow I'll gather it up and then say that you should meet on 27th to exchange it and go for a christmas drink or early ring in of the new year. Breezy not too formal. She's skittish! so you gotta not scare her!! Well and that's the only other thing I would say. I get why you'd want to meet with her on the 27th (logistics and only time within the 2 week span) but on the 4th???? that's too overeager and not flexible. I'm getting the vibe from her that she is holding back. Show that you are able to go at various pace and intensity by being a bit more open-ended (just a general the week you get back from vacation; what's your schedule like and then figure it out). It's fine if she wants to do that but you should show a bit more non-chalance IMO, a little less over-eager. Why? Because she is already showing you her level by not having returned that text and the whole no physical contact convo (which I still think was weird! but hey you like her, I don't)>>> just want to help you get the girl. Good luck
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 I wouldn't go straight into asking her out. I would ask her how her holidays are going. hopefully something came up on your date or knowing her through work that you can reference playfully. That was what I did yesterday with no response. She's since made a couple of posts on Facebook so it would appear to me that her interest level is low or she's holding back. It's fine if she wants to do that but you should show a bit more non-chalance IMO, a little less over-eager. Why? Because she is already showing you her level by not having returned that text and the whole no physical contact convo Agreed! In hindsight, I'm getting a lot of mixed signals. Could be for any number of reasons, but I'm getting them. Good: She allowed me to pay for the date Body language during the date She extended the date She created casual reasons outside of work to see each other again She stayed in my truck for 45 minutes at the end of the date Bad: Her body language in my truck Not initiating texts with me Not responding to my last text I like her, but it would seem best to let this one sit for awhile and explore other options until after the holidays. Basically, that means letting the ball sit in her court. What do you guys think?
Versacehottie Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 That was what I did yesterday with no response. She's since made a couple of posts on Facebook so it would appear to me that her interest level is low or she's holding back. Agreed! In hindsight, I'm getting a lot of mixed signals. Could be for any number of reasons, but I'm getting them. Good: She allowed me to pay for the date Body language during the date She extended the date She created casual reasons outside of work to see each other again She stayed in my truck for 45 minutes at the end of the date Bad: Her body language in my truck Not initiating texts with me Not responding to my last text I like her, but it would seem best to let this one sit for awhile and explore other options until after the holidays. Basically, that means letting the ball sit in her court. What do you guys think? Ok all the good reasons are definitively good and on your bad list: body language in truck just meant she did not want to get physical that night (which matches with what she said, the fact that otherwise she had good body language on the rest of the date, and you were confusing too by leaving the car running and your seat belt on, she probably felt awkward since what you are doing is not outright defined as dating yet), so not the hugest deal. Not initiating texts is not a big deal at all--lots of girls don't do that. I'm surprised guys find it THAT confusing. It really isn't. The only thing that is troubling is not responding to your last text. Which if you sent it to her on first day of her trip or day she was leaving, she might have been rushing around. Some people also like to leave time for when they can text back and forth so will wait until they are free to do that. Also she might just be trying to set a pace that she is good with, which is slower than yours. I always think it's the smartest move to let a person get back to you. That way you don't encourage one-sided or bad behavior--or lose the other person's interest. Some people only know what they want if it's slightly out of reach. Someone who is hesitant is that type. What is the rush anyway? I would rather preserve my dignity, preserve the chance of something with her and set a good pattern for if you did end up dating. Sadly/ironically giving appropriate time and space is exactly what people need to realize they want something with you. I think just wait until you hear from her and take it from there. If you don't hear over the entire vacation period, then call or text in the new year. And of course date others in the meantime. Good luck
Author RoosterFrame Posted December 23, 2015 Author Posted December 23, 2015 Thank you for the good thoughts, Versacahottie! The only thing that is troubling is not responding to your last text. Which if you sent it to her on first day of her trip or day she was leaving, she might have been rushing around. It was the second day of her trip. She posted some stuff that night of her out with her female best friends and also referenced it being her Dad's bday. Some people also like to leave time for when they can text back and forth so will wait until they are free to do that. There was a link to a short video in the text and some funny remarks about it. Something we'd discussed before that was funny. Edgy humor, but humor. Ok all the good reasons are definitively good and on your bad list: body language in truck just meant she did not want to get physical that night (which matches with what she said, the fact that otherwise she had good body language on the rest of the date, and you were confusing too by leaving the car running and your seat belt on, she probably felt awkward since what you are doing is not outright defined as dating yet), so not the hugest deal. I realized that I may have sent mixed signals by not offering to walk her to the door. I also didn't make a definitive plan to see her again. The last thing I said to her was "Safe travels, enjoy Virginia" and smiled. She said, "I'll talk to you soon." This is probably why I felt the need to text her the next day and then again a couple of days after that. Also she might just be trying to set a pace that she is good with, which is slower than yours. Yeah, I get that she might be trying to set boundaries while she is spending rare time with her family and friends. From conversations with her, her mom is her everything. She's an only child and her dad passed away. I also know how close she is to friends back home. I always think it's the smartest move to let a person get back to you. That way you don't encourage one-sided or bad behavior--or lose the other person's interest. Some people only know what they want if it's slightly out of reach. Someone who is hesitant is that type. Agreed! What is the rush anyway? None, really. Beginning in early March, we both will be traveling separately a lot this spring for work though. Would be nice to develop something semi-solid before then if possible. That said, I am aware of trying to force things though and how that can go south pretty quickly. I think just wait until you hear from her and take it from there. If you don't hear over the entire vacation period, then call or text in the new year. And of course date others in the meantime. Good luck Agreed. I am dating others in the meantime. @versacehottie -- given the mixed signals that I apparently sent, for a shy girl like this, given all that you know, would it be fair to say that I've shown sufficient interest in her? Simply put, have I given a shy (possibly insecure) girl enough to feel secure in reaching out to me in some way? I'm on the fence about sending her a text on the 26th (when she gets back from Virginia and before she goes on that camping trip) to test the waters to see if she wants to see me. Something like -- "Hey! If you'd still like those camping supplies, let me know when you want to swing by or I can leave them on my porch for ya to pick up whenever." In my experience, a girl who wants to see you will say something like, "Ok cool! Just let me know when you're home and I'll pop over."
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