Borderline personality in males?

[yellowhibiscus]

I have an ex that I broke up with 2 months ago. Long story short he broke up with me because unhappy- but is now speaking with me again. He apologized for being "emotionally void" and a prick during our relationship. He would tell me frequently during any kind of argument "I don't think we should be together, we aren't meant for each other", "well, I'll just leave then"...he would talk about leaving but never did until the last time. Anyways, someone posted something about BPD and it made me think of him. He had a very traumatic childhood- dad was an abusive alcoholic. I recognized this throughout the relationship as a possible source of his actions but tried to remain supportive.

 

Here is an example of one of our conversations (and yes we are still talking because he used to live with me and we are working on getting his mail and belongings that he left (he left behind pretty much everything) back to him.

-He asked me if he could swing by the house to pick up his mail and guitar case.

-I told him no, not right now because my son was home. I explained that I was not ready to have my son see him. I offered to drop it off at his work tomorrow.

-He continues to still push why he can't come over and why he can't be a part of my son's life.

- I explain further and also bring up the fact that during our relationship he was flirting with this other woman with 2 kids- 2 days (2 days!!!) after we broke up he sent her flowers and drove 2 hours to go see her and her kids in hopes of getting together with her. She ultimately rejected him and he told me he blocked her on facebook and refuses to speak with her. I told him it was tacky to do after being with someone you supposedly loved for 3 years..and that I'm not sure I can trust him not to go in and out of our lives again.

-Gets upset and says never mind about the guitar case, give it to Goodwill.

- I said okay, I just wish you would see my point of view.

-He says well "I'm just a **** up with stupid emotions, I don't know how to be in a relationship, I suck at life, I should kill myself tonight, I'll work on doing so".

- I told him please don't do anything stupid, I care about you.

- He says "Thanks for giving caring a shot"- then calls me mentally abusive, manipulating, vicious, all because I brought up the situation with the other girl but said that I still cared about him. "You are vicious and then come back around with your bs about how much you care about me"

 

Well, my mind is just reeling after that conversation because now I'm thinking to myself- was I being manipulating and mentally abusive? All I was doing was explaining to him the reasoning for him not coming over to pick up his guitar case at the moment. Kind of feeling like I need therapy after this stuff...

 

This is kind of a typical conversation with him- I felt I could never share my feelings or be upset with anything he did in the relationship because it would all come back at me- I was just being a bitch, nothing was ever right...Anyone have any experience with this kind of a situation or maybe it is me?

[salparadise]

I have some experience working with the personality disordered people, and I don't think it's just you. The behavior does seem consistent with such, although there is not nearly enough information, nor is it appropriate to casually apply labels. Let's just say he exhibits some behaviors that are consistent with xyz and focus on that rather than labeling it.

 

Surely, if you were in a relationship with him for three years this wouldn't be the first indication that something is askew. Was he emotionally volatile throughout the relationship or are you just now noticing it?

[yellowhibiscus]

I have some experience working with the personality disordered people, and I don't think it's just you. The behavior does seem consistent with such, although there is not nearly enough information, nor is it appropriate to casually apply labels. Let's just say he exhibits some behaviors that are consistent with xyz and focus on that rather than labeling it.

 

Surely, if you were in a relationship with him for three years this wouldn't be the first indication that something is askew. Was he emotionally volatile throughout the relationship or are you just now noticing it?

 

Thanks for the reply...I think he "broke up" with me over 5 times during our relationship...usually after an argument- I would bring up something that bothered me and he would just say "well i'll pack my things tonight" or "well I don't think we were meant to be together anyways". He would never really leave until this past time, and even now it seems like he is not 100% sure about his decision.

 

There were also moments of jealousy/possessiveness. He got upset once because a pillow in our bedroom wound up in the room next to us. He asked me how it got there, and I said I have no idea. He then asked me if I was cheating on him and said he might have to get cameras for the bedroom.

 

One day we were getting ready to go to a concert and when he saw what I was wearing he flipped out at me...accused me of dressing up for another guy (a guy that I had talked to BEFORE dating him that played with his band at this venue ONE time about 2 years prior....). Needless to say, I did not end up going out that night...

 

He also seemed to love attention from other women. Has a ton of female friends, which i'm okay with but....Would call his friends hot, babe, and made inappropriate comments on pictures. Told me this woman was JUST a friend and completely negated the fact that it bothered me. Turns out, immediately after breaking up with me, he tries to get with her.

 

Mostly with him it was just the fact that he cannot deal with any kind of criticism and is so sensitive to anything that may appear as criticism. Any time I shared my feelings with him, I did not feel he would even try to understand- I was just being a bitch who complained. On the day he broke up with me he cut his hair and left it all rolled up in the rug in the bathroom. When I asked him about it, he flipped out at me and asked me why I won't ever just leave anything alone and why am I always bitching to him.

[giblesp]

Well, if he's telling you he's not ready for a relationship, and has past issues he's clearly not dealing with, this will be the result EVERY TIME. An ex of mine would also do the same stuff, then say sorry and come out with lots of pretty words. It would always cone back to the same point though.

 

Don't have relationships with depressed people who are unhappy about themselves and life. They rarely have the maturity and self control, to not get into the relationship as they are clearly not ready, and will cause others pain.

[hudson701]

 

Don't have relationships with depressed people who are unhappy about themselves and life. They rarely have the maturity and self control, to not get into the relationship as they are clearly not ready, and will cause others pain.

 

So in other words write them off is it? Because that's exactly what my ex did to me in the same situation. Life can be quite horrible can't it? Human beings are inherently selfish and it's something I've had a hard time accepting. I mean you wouldn't go into a shop and look for a broken TV you'd want a fully functioning new one. Same with dating. People like myself are just invisible to women because I'm not functioning in the same way a 'normal/stable' man would. It's a bitter pill to swallow. And very lonely.

[DaisyBug]

 

Don't have relationships with depressed people who are unhappy about themselves and life. They rarely have the maturity and self control, to not get into the relationship as they are clearly not ready, and will cause others pain.

 

Exactly!

 

Everything will always be your fault. Please wash your hands of this man. You will forever have to walk on eggshells around him and that's no way to live.

 

You also don't want him as an example to your son.

[elaine567]

Failing relationships tend to bring out the worst in people.

Emotions are involved and bad personality traits surface, people act completely out of character, they become petty, selfish, annoying, angry, jealous, irrational..etc.

 

So whilst his bad childhood may influence how he behaves today, we are all products of our childhood and upbringing, it is how we conduct ourselves now that matters.

 

We can all act weird or even crazy when relationships fail or do not meet expectations, no-one who is emotionally involved can be entirely reasonable, and act completely rationally when their world is tumbling down. We are human not machines.

I am just a bit fed up of the amateur psychiatric diagnoses that tend to get thrown around post-break up.

He/she broke up with me therefore he/she has BPD, is a narcissist, has bipolar, is a psychopath, is a sociopath...

 

For a diagnosis of BPD he needs to see a psychiatrist, it is a spectrum disorder and so BPD traits are common in us all, only in BPDers they take an extreme from.

So no-one here can tell you, he has BPD.

 

And what does it matter anyway, you are split up.

Look to your own input into this relationship, was their anything you could have done better, as that is what you need to learn from this moving forward?

If he is as mentally disordered as you propose, why did you stay so long?

[yellowhibiscus]

Failing relationships tend to bring out the worst in people.

Emotions are involved and bad personality traits surface, people act completely out of character, they become petty, selfish, annoying, angry, jealous, irrational..etc.

 

So whilst his bad childhood may influence how he behaves today, we are all products of our childhood and upbringing, it is how we conduct ourselves now that matters.

 

We can all act weird or even crazy when relationships fail or do not meet expectations, no-one who is emotionally involved can be entirely reasonable, and act completely rationally when their world is tumbling down. We are human not machines.

I am just a bit fed up of the amateur psychiatric diagnoses that tend to get thrown around post-break up.

He/she broke up with me therefore he/she has BPD, is a narcissist, has bipolar, is a psychopath, is a sociopath...

 

For a diagnosis of BPD he needs to see a psychiatrist, it is a spectrum disorder and so BPD traits are common in us all, only in BPDers they take an extreme from.

So no-one here can tell you, he has BPD.

 

 

 

And what does it matter anyway, you are split up.

Look to your own input into this relationship, was their anything you could have done better, as that is what you need to learn from this moving forward?

If he is as mentally disordered as you propose, why did you stay so long?

 

I am not trying to diagnose him. I had just read some things about this and was wondering if anyone had the same experiences. I definitely have looked into my input in this relationship...this whole experience has me questioning everything....that's why I asked is it me? I am not sure why I stayed so long.

[salparadise]

Thanks for the reply...I think he "broke up" with me over 5 times during our relationship...usually after an argument- I would bring up something that bothered me and he would just say "well i'll pack my things tonight" or "well I don't think we were meant to be together anyways". He would never really leave until this past time, and even now it seems like he is not 100% sure about his decision.

 

Mostly with him it was just the fact that he cannot deal with any kind of criticism and is so sensitive to anything that may appear as criticism. Any time I shared my feelings with him, I did not feel he would even try to understand

 

Sounds like an avoidant/anxious attachment, and then making a big play for someone else two days along with his over-the-top reaction to her... yea, I'd say the guy has some serious issues. It's not surprising if he came from an abusive, alcoholic home. It's virtually impossible to develop into a healthy, mature adult coming from such a dysfunctional home life. The dysfunction does not exist only within the individual- it's systemic.

 

My thought is that you should educate yourself on the family systems and patterns that include these kinds of dysfunction so that you can identify them and make better choices. If you were in a relationship with this guy for three years and living together for part or all of that time, it's pretty much a given that you played an active role in sustaining it. You probably have some healing to do yourself in addition to learning how to enforce your boundaries. Healthy boundaries are as powerful a deterrent to emotional vampires as garlic is to the blood-sucking kind.

 

You realize that there is a good chance this guy will circle back to see if you're good for another round, right? In fact, that's probably what the guitar case episode was all about. He didn't want the case, he was trying to get his foot back in the door.

[salparadise]

I definitely have looked into my input in this relationship...this whole experience has me questioning everything....that's why I asked is it me? I am not sure why I stayed so long.

 

Good. You should be looking into the role you played and what the attraction was. The woman he sent flowers to saw him coming and sent him packing immediately. What's the difference? How does all of this work?

 

There is a lot of information out there for you to absorb. Counseling wouldn't be a bad idea either. Google Melanie Beattie as a starting point - read her book.

[giblesp]

So in other words write them off is it? Because that's exactly what my ex did to me in the same situation. Life can be quite horrible can't it? Human beings are inherently selfish and it's something I've had a hard time accepting. I mean you wouldn't go into a shop and look for a broken TV you'd want a fully functioning new one. Same with dating. People like myself are just invisible to women because I'm not functioning in the same way a 'normal/stable' man would. It's a bitter pill to swallow. And very lonely.

 

 

The good news is that you can work on yourself right now, and become happy with yourself and life. It takes alot of work and willpower, but unlike the broken TV, you can fix yourself.

 

Staying out of relationships while your healing might seem lonely, but would you run a marathon without training? You'd train first, and train to win. Self work is the same. Its constructing a goal, and a method of getting to that goal. You can even have fun along the way.

[autumnnight]

There is one way to know for sure that someone has BPD. A diagnosis by an actual professional. Articles, checklists, "I once had an ec with it so here's my long-winded argument for why YOUR ex has it," etc. etc. etc. are all just speculation. Every person on this forum would answer yes to some of the questions, and depending on the stress in our lives, maybe more at some times than others.

[salparadise]

There is one way to know for sure that someone has BPD. A diagnosis by an actual professional. Articles, checklists, "I once had an ec with it so here's my long-winded argument for why YOUR ex has it," etc. etc. etc. are all just speculation. Every person on this forum would answer yes to some of the questions, and depending on the stress in our lives, maybe more at some times than others.

 

autumn, I think we moved on past labeling after first few posts. It's ok now.

[Fleur de cactus]

You had 3 years relationship with that man, you know him better than anyone here. If you think there is something wrong you're probably right. Exit this relationship. It is not healthy. I was in similar situation. A man who left his stuff with every ex, to find a reason to go back, under pretext of picking his belongings, but in fact he wants to check if he is wanted back. Telling you to give his stuff to goowill shows you thAt the reason of his visit was to argue with you to see if he can win and stay.

 

Just think about what you want in your life. There is so much going on. Walking on eggshells, not having a serious discussion, or he threatens to leave, always turning things around to make you feel guilty... If I was you I would stop seeing him. Good luck.

[elaine567]

Because that's exactly what meople like myself are just invisible to women because I'm not functioning in the same way a 'normal/stable' man would. It's a bitter pill to swallow. And very lonely.

 

Are you getting help?

[yellowhibiscus]

You had 3 years relationship with that man, you know him better than anyone here. If you think there is something wrong you're probably right. Exit this relationship. It is not healthy. I was in similar situation. A man who left his stuff with every ex, to find a reason to go back, under pretext of picking his belongings, but in fact he wants to check if he is wanted back. Telling you to give his stuff to goowill shows you thAt the reason of his visit was to argue with you to see if he can win and stay.

 

Just think about what you want in your life. There is so much going on. Walking on eggshells, not having a serious discussion, or he threatens to leave, always turning things around to make you feel guilty... If I was you I would stop seeing him. Good luck.

 

Thank you for your input...I have not seen him in the past 2 months, was trying to be "friends" with him and leave things in a civil manner. I realize how bad it was and I think he is starting to realize the mistakes he made too, but anytime I ever bring up anything about how he made me feel, he turns it completely around and it's all my fault. He did leave everything here except his clothes, it's such a pain in the ass to try to get rid of all of this stuff because I don't need it here reminding me of him.

[RoseVille]

OP: Emotionally healthy people aren't attracted to emotionally and mentally unhealthy people. So if he does have issues, you do too.

 

I agree with Elaine 100%.

[yellowhibiscus]

OP: Emotionally healthy people aren't attracted to emotionally and mentally unhealthy people. So if he does have issues, you do too.

 

I agree with Elaine 100%.

 

Okay, thank you for the input. I will definitely keep this in mind as I am trying to figure this all out.

[Downtown]

I'm going through an end of a 3.5 year relationship. Things were really really good the first year.... For the past year, he had been gradually getting more distant, easily frustrated with me.[Your 6/21 post.]

Yellow, you describe your exBF as behaving well for 2.5 years and then "gradually getting more distant" during the last year you were together -- at which point he dumped you after being caught sending flowers to another woman. Significantly, if he had strong BPD traits as you suspect, he likely would have the emotional development of a four year old and thus would have started exhibiting those traits at the end of the courtship period, which typically is about 6 months into the R/S. This means you likely would have started seeing strong red flags much sooner than 2.5 years into the R/S if he has strong traits.

 

Granted, you do describe two BPD red flags. Your 6/29 post describes him as "very needy" and "can't handle being on his own." These two warning signs are red flags for a Cluster B personality disorder, e.g., for BPD or narcissism. By themselves, however, they fall far short of the warning signs you should be seeing if he really does exhibit a strong pattern of BPD traits.

 

If (despite my skepticism) you are still interested in learning more about these traits, I would suggest you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

I am not trying to diagnose him.

Good. Learning to spot warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exBF's issues, Yellow. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful experience -- e.g., avoid taking him back and avoid running into the arms of another man just like the one you left.

 

As Elaine observes, BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exBF exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.

 

After you've been dating someone for 3.5 years, you should find that these warning signs are not difficult to spot whenever they occur. There is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, temper tantrums, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips. Take care, Yellow.

[HereNorThere]

A BPD diagnoses for a male is actually pretty rare. Sure, he does sound like a mess, but I definitely don't think you've presented the diagnostic criteria you would need to label someone with such an extreme disorder. Being labeled BPD is the psychological death sentence in most cases.

 

Males are much more likely to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder sprinkled with intermittent explosive disorder or somewhere else on the spectrum. Not saying it isn't possible, but it's a very rare diagnosis in males.

[Downtown]

A BPD diagnoses for a male is actually pretty rare.... Males are much more likely to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder....

HNT, that view was once widely held because nobody had sufficient funding to actually do a large scale study based on randomized sampling of the general population. Since 2008, however, the lifetime prevalence of BPD and NPD is now believed to be roughly the same -- about 6% for both of these disorders in the general population.

 

That is the finding of a 2008 Study in the J. of Clinical Psych (Stinson et al). Significantly, that study -- which did face-to-face evaluations of nearly 35,000 American adults -- is the only large scale, randomized study ever done in the world. It was financed by the U.S. National Institute of Health. Specifically, it found that the prevalence of NPD was 6.2% in the general population. As expected, the rates were higher for males (7.7%) than for females (4.8%). It also found the prevalence of BPD to be approximately 6% (5.9%, actually) for both males and females. The prevalence rates for NPD (taken from that 2008 study) are summarized at The Narcissistic Life.