Want to hear from men

[unoelo1]

I ask this simply out of curiosity. As a girl in my 20s, I know it's very hard to find decent guys who tick all the boxes.

 

 

But, I know that girls mature earlier than guys, so I feel like it would be easier to find a decent girl because most of them have well and truly matured by 25. So I'm wondering, is it easy for men in their 20s to find nice girls who tick all their boxes? Or do you find it difficult?

[carhill]

If you had asked me that question when I was your age, I would have told you they were all married and had toddlers, or older. My best friend had six and eight year old daughters by the time he was 25, as one example, and not an uncommon one. So, as a single man at that age, it was nearly impossible for me to even meet a single woman, much less one who ticked boxes.

 

Fortunately, young people generally stay single (unmarried) much longer now. Since LS is a forum for people to discuss relationships, the majority shared appear to trend to challenges and difficulties, so that might skew results. The people who have it easy aren't around, rather out there enjoying their relationships. That's my man answer

[somedude81]

I ask this simply out of curiosity. As a girl in my 20s, I know it's very hard to find decent guys who tick all the boxes.

 

 

But, I know that girls mature earlier than guys, so I feel like it would be easier to find a decent girl because most of them have well and truly matured by 25. So I'm wondering, is it easy for men in their 20s to find nice girls who tick all their boxes? Or do you find it difficult?

 

What do you mean find nice girls?

 

Sure it's easy for me to find nice girls who meet all my requirements. Actually getting them to go out with me is a whole different issue.

 

Your post actually is related to this.

 

A guy might think that you tick all his boxes, but he might not tick yours.

[TXGuy]

This might get me in trouble here, because anything not obviously complementary to women is frowned upon here, but her goes...

 

Assuming you are a 25 year old woman, you are at your peak. It is time to zero in on the best man you can find (good long term potential) and lock him down for for the long term (marriage).

 

As a woman, you have been punching above your weight since your breasts came in (early teens?). You have been getting far more attention than boys of your age. This continues through your early twenties. You are still on top through your mid twenties. You might start to see it wane in your late twenties, but you wont think much of it. You will have gotten used to the idea that women call all of the shots in the sexual marketplace. That is until you hit your early thirties. Then you will notice all of the hot guys are paying attention to the girls in their early twenties (maybe mid to late).

 

The pickings git slim fast at this point. You are unaccustomed to the sexual market value power-shift that occurs in the early thirties. While it isn't pretty for women, it is fantastic for guys that spent their 20s concentrating on their careers. All that disproportionate attention you got in your teens and 20s is gone. You will drop to around average. But compared to the last decade, it will seem like a barren wasteland. And it only gets worse from there.

 

As much as you might hold men in their 20s with contempt (that you show in your post), your best bet for a good life is to realize that right now is as good as it gets. Zero in on your best prospect and try to make something work.

 

I might catch some flack for this, but I sincerely think it is good advice for a woman your age. I would hope that some of the ladies would affirm this, but I think most that are cruising loveshack will probably disagree colorfully.

[firmness]

First off, it is absolutely not true that women mature faster than boys. This is an old wives tale that is code for "women are ready to sign a marriage contract sooner than men are."

 

Over the years I have seen young men push back on the marriage thing. They are sick of being told that they are "afraid of commitment" and "not mature" or "manboy" etc. Those insults no longer work because the women who came before you abused this. Not all women, but tens of millions. You can see the results here on this site.

 

Young men no longer have to try to change who they are in order to be "mature" so that they can attract a mate. There are way too many women willing to sleep around. This makes it virtually impossible for good girls to get a good guy.

 

So you should hold your standards as high as you can and keep them there. Never lower your standards. Do not settle for anything less than your ideal mate.

 

It will just be difficult to find someone right for you, but when you do find him, he will be special.

[Els]

I ask this simply out of curiosity. As a girl in my 20s, I know it's very hard to find decent guys who tick all the boxes.

 

 

But, I know that girls mature earlier than guys, so I feel like it would be easier to find a decent girl because most of them have well and truly matured by 25. So I'm wondering, is it easy for men in their 20s to find nice girls who tick all their boxes? Or do you find it difficult?

 

What boxes are you wanting these guys to tick, specifically? Personality? Commitment? Looks? Careers? Compatibility?

 

It's equally hard for both genders to find a truly compatible mate IMO. But, I met my SO when we were both 21, and he was fairly mature (okay, very mature in comparison to most 21 yo boys) and a good partner then, though we did still both have some growing up to do at that age.

 

Most guys I know have 'caught up' to the girls in terms of maturity at 25, which is when most have graduated and embarked on their careers. The noticeable difference that was present in the teens was no longer so marked. But if you are wanting stuff like marriage ASAP, then yeah, might be difficult at such an age. Although I would be hesitant to call that a hallmark of maturity, as some of the people (not all) who rush towards marriage in their 20s are doing it precisely because of immaturity.

 

Clarification please.

[unoelo1]

Firmness, don't worry, my standards are so high that they're almost impossible to meet. I would rather stay single than have to settle. Only one guy has so far met my standards (my ex) but unfortunately 6 years later he screwed up, which is a shame as we were highly compatible, we had something really special and (in my opinion) very hard to find that he took for granted.

 

 

I guess I do mainly mean all-round compatibility.

 

 

All the time, you'll hear girls say "the good ones are always taken", and I was just curious as to whether men feel the same way about women, whether it's just as difficult for them to find the "good ones".

[TheyCallMeOx]

I'm 24 years old. I'm mostly going to be dating women my age rather than 16 year olds. If you're a woman and between the ages of 21-26, I'm going to automatically assume that you are mature. I'm going to assume you have basic knowledge on how to cook something, how to clean after yourself, and give 110% at the things you're interested in. Throwing in the word "mature" before "woman" just sounds redundant to me. I'm not interested in "mature women" because it reminds me of the women who are CEO's who wear tight dresses, pearl necklaces, caked perfume, and have a sense of humor equivalent to a rock. Provided I was single, I'd be looking for women who have great personalities, and decent looking. To me, I don't care too much about her academics or her level of income; I believe that if I'm interested in a woman enough, willing to fall in love with her, then the rest doesn't matter. I believe that happiness comes from the inside, and everything will work itself out in the end. For women, I think academics and/or career-drive plays a significant portion in the longevity of a relationship.

 

In the end, we have define what is "decent." If men and women were to make a list and come up with an average on what each other find decent, I think women would end up with higher standards than men. When you set the bar higher, your opportunity gets lower; especially around the age of 20-27 years old in 2014. I believe that most men's standards are lower than women, so they have more opportunity to work with than women do. It all seems like, statistically, men have a higher chance at finding a "nice girl" than women do at finding a "nice man." the reality, however, is that society still kind of frowns upon women pursuing men on a romantic level. Typically, men are the ones who pursue women. The men that women most likely are willing to pursue are already taken by women that have already beaten them to it. It's essentially a wild game of chance. Tick boxes are like sins in the Bible; we put more emphasis on some, while neglecting the others. If we followed everything the Bible, we'd be lunatic. As such, if we found someone that ticked all of our boxes, it's often the case of "too good to be true."

 

What it all comes down to is how balanced the relationship is. See, I'm not looking for a woman who can tick all my boxes. Yeah, I'm not much of a drinker and don't like women who social drink, but if she's got something to offer me to replace that inconvenient quality of herself, then I can learn to accept it.

 

Now that I think about it...women are kind of like test grades. I remember having an English class where I wrote papers all the time and got 100's on them every time. To me, it meant nothing despite the fact that I got a perfect grade. What's better than perfect, right? However, when I'd get a 76 on a Calculus test, that 76 would mean more to me than any other 100 I got in English. There's significance behind that 76. A woman may not be a 100, but humans are more complicated than that. It all depends on your perspective. What it means to be "decent" or "nice" is self-defined. It's all about sacrifice and patience. We live in a world where everyone thinks they're right, and the people who disagree are wrong. If a woman sets "unrealistic expectations," that's fine. Her chance of finding the right guy may be slim, but that's her choice and there ain't nothin' wrong with that.

Edited June 25, 2014 by TheyCallMeOx

[somedude81]

Firmness, don't worry, my standards are so high that they're almost impossible to meet. I would rather stay single than have to settle. Only one guy has so far met my standards (my ex) but unfortunately 6 years later he screwed up, which is a shame as we were highly compatible, we had something really special and (in my opinion) very hard to find that he took for granted.

 

 

I guess I do mainly mean all-round compatibility.

 

 

All the time, you'll hear girls say "the good ones are always taken", and I was just curious as to whether men feel the same way about women, whether it's just as difficult for them to find the "good ones".

You are being your own worst enemy.

 

For one, when your standards are so high, only a few very high quality men will meet them, and of course they are already taken.

 

In general men have far lower standards then women do. In spite of that, men do feel that "the good ones are always taken" as well. For some reason it's almost impossible to meet a nice cute girl who is single, or is willing to lower her standards enough to give mortal men a chance with her.

[Andy_K]

Unfortunately I have to agree with txguy and somedude here. For many guys, it's not that all the decent girls are taken, it's that most of the decent girls simply have so much choice & requirements that your typical guy will have a hard time.

 

You can only date from the pool of people interested in you. For a reasonably attractive girl in her mid twenties, that pool is pretty much most single guys that she meets. Her challenge is to find the ones who are worth her time. For a reasonably attractive guy of a similar age, that pool is some small fraction of the single girls he meets. They are generally all nice enough girls, but his challenge is to find one who is interested and stand out enough that she picks him.

 

Not to mention the fact that guys generally have far fewer boxes to tick than girls... For most of us it's just 'is she cute? Is she nice? Do we have anything in common?' - and if we are being honest, most of us have ignored the last two of those once or twice when we were young enough!

 

(I exaggerate a bit, for the purposes of making the point)

Edited June 25, 2014 by Andy_K

[Assasda]

I dont know who told you that women mature faster than men.

I like that women think that way, so I dont fight it, but its simply not true.

 

The thing about women not finding the good ones, is because those same women are looking for the flashy guys. The good ones arnt that flashy, or some of the whiny women dont see the potential in a good before he gets committed

[todreaminblue]

When i date i do have high standards but i dont get in the way of myself......being a multiple i can relate to different types of guys and when i want to date i can pick who i want to date......and i am 45.....and i give guys chances i date one at a time and do the more than one date thing.....as i said i dont write guys off for having a bad day or a quiet day...i would write them off if they were disrespectful......you have to give people chances and realize they are just people not just requirements or objects for you to have that suit you......they have feelings in other words that are just as important as your feelings and standards

 

 

i mainly date guys i have known for a while.....but have dated the random guy when they ask for a date..i dont bother with games and i am straightforward so i really dont have problems when i want to date and unless a guy is a totally an arrogant pig with wandering hands i am likely to give him a chance to know him better......and i am prehistoric./....ancient...an over the hill groover...i can still have fun...and i make it fun for them....keep it lively and moving along so they are comfortable........

 

 

 

i do think if you have impossibly high standards...it doesnt help....why should they care about impossibility when they can have possibly fun dates with someone who isnt judging how they sit stand and act....and finding them lacking...doesnt sound fun and you truly cant know soemone unless you make them chill out....deb

[Keenly]

No its not really that easy. I don't know if ts just the area I live in or what, but the ratio of low quality to high quality is like 7 to 1.

[Strength in Healing]

No its not really that easy. I don't know if ts just the area I live in or what, but the ratio of low quality to high quality is like 7 to 1.

 

 

Lmao I think that's everywhere. More like 15 to 1.

 

Then again I have high standards.

[Keenly]

Lmao I think that's everywhere. More like 15 to 1.

 

Then again I have high standards.

 

Man... why is society raising our daughters to be so selfish, materialistic, shallow, and not teaching them what a healthy relationship is really like?

 

It seems the women I meet want a man they can walk all over.

[Strength in Healing]

Man... why is society raising our daughters to be so selfish, materialistic, shallow, and not teaching them what a healthy relationship is really like?

 

It seems the women I meet want a man they can walk all over.

 

 

It's a very screwed up society.

 

We are raising a society of entitled narcissists. Don't even get me started on snapchat selfies. Or the facebooks with 100000 pictures of themselves... seriously...

 

It's tough to discern what women want, but important not to group them all together. As there are always diamonds in the rough. Unfortunately, however, many are conditioned to seek dysfunction as that's what they've been taught is the norm. So if you aren't crazy or controlling, you are either too good to be true, or weak.

[central]

Man... why is society raising our daughters to be so selfish, materialistic, shallow, and not teaching them what a healthy relationship is really like?

 

It seems the women I meet want a man they can walk all over.

 

I think this has a good deal of truth to it. Then, if they marry such a man, they will stop respecting him (if they ever did), and get bored quickly. They they'll either divorce him or cheat on him with a man who excites them and challenges them.

[GoodOnPaper]

I ask this simply out of curiosity. As a girl in my 20s, I know it's very hard to find decent guys who tick all the boxes.

 

But, I know that girls mature earlier than guys, so I feel like it would be easier to find a decent girl because most of them have well and truly matured by 25. So I'm wondering, is it easy for men in their 20s to find nice girls who tick all their boxes? Or do you find it difficult?

 

I don't think many guys in their 20s have the luxury of using the "tick-the-boxes" approach. At that age, everything revolves around being attractive to girls for short-term things. Those that are are out there enjoying the ONSs and FWBs -- the only boxes they worry about ticking are the physical ones. For those of us that aren't/weren't considered desirable for short-term flings, things can quickly be reduced to one box, "Is she willing to go out with me?" At that age, even LTR-minded girls were far more interested in converting players than choosing more average-looking relationship-minded guys.

 

I think when a man establishes an independent life -- career, mortgage/rent payments for his own home, car payments, etc. -- then he's more likely to consider more boxes for ticking.

[firmness]

Firmness, don't worry, my standards are so high that they're almost impossible to meet. I would rather stay single...

 

Okay then. Well that says a lot, doesn't it?

 

I am pretty confident that this will change for you one day. Not that you will lower your standards, but that you will see it all differently.

 

I actually feel bad for you because it seems that you have bought into this horrible Western narrative that conveys a message that goes something like this:

 

"Males are flawed, and women are amazing and special....Be sexually attractive and beautiful and since all men are dogs, you will get one easily - BUT the one you get will not be a pig or a dog because he chose YOU.... If you have looks and some diva swagger, you do not need substance....Study art or sociology and express yourself and find your "inner you" - that should be good enough for any man. Don't mine coal or fight wars or haul trash - those are men's jobs. Besides, menial labor, science, math, engineering and human progress is someone else's dirty job - we need more social rights activists....If men do NOT chase you around like the pigs and dogs that they are, it is because of unrealistic standards of beauty, which proves that men are also shallow....If a gorgeous woman walks by wearing provocative clothing designed, well to provoke, and your man notices her, then HE is wrong."

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. This is a horrible thing to do to fellow human beings of any race or gender. Your post about "standards" is indicative of a serious judgmental attitude. I could be wrong, and I am offering this observation with all due humble respect for your awesomeness and high standards.

 

Back to the other part of your question - yes. It is tough to find a good woman. That is why we call them "good" and "special" because they are unique and rare. The irony, is that you can only find that person when you stop measuring other human beings against some list of "standards" and focus instead on your deepest values and become truly open to the messiness they bring to the table. We judge each other by the worst possible metrics - the most impossible criteria that are the worst at determining true goodness.

 

...But that is another rant!

[Frank2thepoint]

my standards are so high that they're almost impossible to meet. I would rather stay single than have to settle.

 

You should just stay single. Relationships are not for you, because they require compromise and understanding, which you clearly don't want to settle for.

[ain5053]

While the comments above are partially true, the way it works in the dating world is we all go through the process of "natural selection" (only the strongest survive) where we constantly compete for the best we hope we can get, but typically settle down for what can actually get - we are all ATTRACTED to people that are "out of our league", but the people we ATTRACT are usually a reflection of ourselves! For example, let's say you area good looking, intelligent 25 year old girl, but with a poor personality - you are going to be attracted to men that share similar qualities with you like good looks, education, possibly well financially established. BUT.. not all of those men will be interested in YOU. Why? Because yes, while some men have lower standards and will accept you for just your looks, others will have higher standards and will require a girl with a great personality on top of those other things! I would imagine many men and women meet tons of nice people but aren't successful with them because they don't meet the other's needs. And this does not only pertain to men, but to women as well. It is not superficial to turn down a potential mate because they don't match your list of qualifications if those are all the qualities you have in yourself! Instead of focusing on finding a "perfect mate" - focus on YOURSELF - become the best person you can be, become the best version of yourself you have ever been, and always aim for higher. When the person with a similar mindset comes along you will instantly be attracted to each other. In fact there will be little to no limits (the one limit we have little control over is how good looking we are). We will always want what we can't have - but if you have confidence in yourself to aim higher, you will probably achieve more than expected. Just personal advice.

 

Oh, and to the jerk who suggested women in their 20s should be focused on finding a husband because men will no longer be interested in them past their 30s.... That is an extremely shallow and sexist comment and I more than disagree with you sir - women are not disposable goods and especially if they follow the advice above, take the time to develop confidence and become the best version of themselves, there will ALWAYS be men interested. But men like you will never meet those women's standards.

Edited June 25, 2014 by ain5053

[TXGuy]

 

Oh, and to the jerk who suggested women in their 20s should be focused on finding a husband because men will no longer be interested in them past their 30s.... That is an extremely shallow and sexist comment and I more than disagree with you sir - women are not disposable goods and especially if they follow the advice above, take the time to develop confidence and become the best version of themselves, there will ALWAYS be men interested. But men like you will never meet those women's standards.

 

While I agree with most of the top of your post, the last paragraph seemed needlessly (though not surprisingly) hostile. It is reasonable to assume the relative power between men and women in the dating marketplace varies over time. It is reasonable to assert that women have a disproportionate amount at dating power when the are younger (under 30). It is also reasonable to assert that power imbalance could start to equalize around 30.

 

If that is the case, then a rational strategy for women is to find a mate when they are at their peak relative power, which should optimize their choices. They will then have their mate locked into lifelong bliss (marriage) when the relative power dynamic equalizes.

 

I did not say women were disposable. I did not say no man will want them after 30. I said they will (likely) have better options when they are 25 and single than if they were 40 and single.

 

I base this from general observations and my experience on the other side of the coin. When I was in my teens and twenties, I had little relative power in the dating marketplace. I had to put in a lot of effort to date average women. Starting in my early 30s, average women were eager to date me and attractive women were willing to date me. By my mid thirties till now (mid 40s), attractive and quality women are eager to date me and it is effortless on my end. From that, I assume that women in their late 30s have less relative power in the dating marketplace than women in their 20s.

 

You can think that is sexist and shallow, but there is more than a kernel of truth to it. That might be what has you upset.

[fortyninethousand322]

I ask this simply out of curiosity. As a girl in my 20s, I know it's very hard to find decent guys who tick all the boxes.

 

 

But, I know that girls mature earlier than guys, so I feel like it would be easier to find a decent girl because most of them have well and truly matured by 25. So I'm wondering, is it easy for men in their 20s to find nice girls who tick all their boxes? Or do you find it difficult?

 

Oh I could find quite a few women to tick most or all of my boxes. They're not interested in me though. Which is the catch.

[SammySammy]

I've never found a woman that ticked all of my boxes. Some women are strong in some areas. Less so in others. Even if a person did tick all of your boxes, people change over time.

 

I prefer to not try to measure people against a predetermined checklist. Sure, I have some basic ground rules. But, I've learned to appreciate the differences in people and the wide range of human experience. I believe that's a much more fulfilling way to live life than thinking I'm only compatible with a person who matches my checklist.

 

I've learned so much and experienced so many things with women who didn't match the list I had in my teens and early 20s. I believe my life has been richer for it.

[PogoStick]

I ask this simply out of curiosity. As a girl in my 20s, I know it's very hard to find decent guys who tick all the boxes.

 

 

But, I know that girls mature earlier than guys, so I feel like it would be easier to find a decent girl because most of them have well and truly matured by 25. So I'm wondering, is it easy for men in their 20s to find nice girls who tick all their boxes? Or do you find it difficult?

 

A girl at 25 still hasn't truly matured, but she's made progress from 5 years earlier. However, they're only a couple years post college and still think they are hot stuff from all the attention school boys gave them.

 

Let those girls have another 5-10 years of disappointment and they finally start to mellow out and become quite pleasant.