Enjaycee Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 My new long-distance gf of two months and I have gone through arguments already about trust and monogamy. I have another female friend who I consider very close who also lives in another city. We tried dating before (before I met and began dating my new gf), and found out that we were better off as good friends. She even helped me by giving me relationship advice for my gf. Anyway, when gf hears from me that I have this friend who I used to like, she was pretty upset. I realized that with this friend of mine, I would not be able to come visit her occasionally like I used to, or chat with her like we used to. I've dissociated from her, but I wasn't giving up my female friend(s) for my gf. I realize that I can't be super friendly with my female friends like I used to be when I was single, in order to avoid making her feel jealous/insecure/not good enough/etc. I realize that I can't be living a wild life like that anymore and need to behave like a more committed man in a new relationship. Either way, the past incident and arguments over it cast me in a light of someone who wants more than just my gf, possibly untrustworthy, and possibly not ready for a real relationship yet. Talking with my gf last night, it seems to me that she has now adopted a nonchalant attitude toward me. Recently, she has been telling me that "I want you to do what you feel like doing," to "not think about me or anything else" because she "doesn't want to drag me down." This raises concern for me. She's been saying this a lot recently, and I feel like how a parent gives up on his/her children and tells them to do whatever they want, because they don't care anymore. I feel like she doesn't care nearly as much anymore, even if she reassured me that she loves me. I really do love her and I want to stay in a relationship with her, and I tell her this, but she is convinced I want more than that and I should be out exploring more. I want her to come with me on journeys, but she says she will "support me from where I stand" and that "it's not that simple." Everything I mentioned in the quotes is from our text convo last night. It all still perplexes me and concerns me. Anybody care to shed some light?
d0nnivain Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 You are correct that it's an insult to your friendships to simply abandon those people because now you have a GF but you are also correct that there needs to be some adjustment in your personal interactions. If you are trying to be a good BF but your new GF has unrealistic expectations, you can't fix her insecurities. Her statements that you should "do what you want" are an unfair test. What's she unconsciously demanding is that you do what she wants. You will have to get more clarification from her about what she means by supporting you where she stands. It is understandable that since you are LD, she is jealous about people who get to spend time in your presence. If you can reassure her on that front things might get better but I don't get the sense she'll be happy unless you never have any fun every again without her. 1
marcjb Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 The past is the past, but not really, because you are keeping your past around in the preset. Your first mistake was keeping someone around from your past that you have been intimate before. Your second mistake was thinking it's ok to confide in your relationship with this person. 2
acrosstheuniverse Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 I don't know, it all sounds a little passive aggressive to me. If she had said something along the lines of 'look baby, I know I've acted a little possessive recently and I'm not proud of that. I trust that your friendships with women are just that, friendships, and I don't want you to feel restricted by me in any way. From now on I want you to do whatever makes you happy, and I'll work on trying not to allow that to make me feel insecure/not good enough/jealous' then I'd say cool, what a mature lady, sounds as though she's realised that trying to dictate someone else's actions is a stupid idea and she cares about you enough to want you to be happy. However, if she'd made it clear and you felt in your gut she really did WANT you to do what you wanted to do, you wouldn't be here asking us. Your gut tells you something's off. It sounds a little passive aggressive, a bit of a huff from her end if I'm honest. A little like, she's just going to distance herself to stop it from hurting but will still be carefully taking notice of what you do. If you started to hang with this ex/friend whatever of yours, I guarantee you she isn't suddenly going to be feeling fine about it. Personally in your position I would be respectful, act as though you're in an exclusive relationship, but start manning up a little and stop pandering to her and acting like a doormat (I base this on 'Either way, the past incident and arguments over it cast me in a light of someone who wants more than just my gf, possibly untrustworthy, and possibly not ready for a real relationship yet.': wanting to see a friend you once tried dating does not necessarily mean you want other women, that you're untrustworthy, or that you're not ready for a relationship!). I'd just mirror her a little, make sure you keep up with your own active awesome social life, have other interests, don't focus on the relationship 200%. Treat her like you adore her when you're with her, but don't let her get the impression you're gazing at her anxiously waiting to figure out what she means by 'do what you want to do' so you can abide by it. Does that make sense?
LostOnes05 Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 It sounds to me like she is pulling away from you, in order to break up soon. I don't care if I was in a different country, I wouldn't tell my significant other to do whatever. She may be doing whatever she wants and feels guilty about stringing you along...who knows?!. Be careful because that sounds like break-up talk to me. Ask her point blank, "Do you want to continue the relationship?" Don't beat around the bush with it. 2
marcjb Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 It sounds a little passive aggressive, a bit of a huff from her end if I'm honest. A little like, she's just going to distance herself to stop it from hurting but will still be carefully taking notice of what you do. If you started to hang with this ex/friend whatever of yours, I guarantee you she isn't suddenly going to be feeling fine about it. Personally in your position I would be respectful, act as though you're in an exclusive relationship, but start manning up a little and stop pandering to her and acting like a doormat (I base this on 'Either way, the past incident and arguments over it cast me in a light of someone who wants more than just my gf, possibly untrustworthy, and possibly not ready for a real relationship yet.': wanting to see a friend you once tried dating does not necessarily mean you want other women, that you're untrustworthy, or that you're not ready for a relationship!). It is passive aggressive, but if the OP's behavior is supposed to be "OK" then at what point is his behavior not ok? At what point will the OP's girlfriend not have blame projected onto her for is actions? I don't think that his behavior is appropriate for someone that wants to be in a relationship. Maybe when it gets to this point, the she will still be blamed for "jealousy" and "insecurity"? http://i.imgur.com/1G5JCLI.png Keeping close "friends" of the opposite gender never help a relationship. Especially when it's someone that you've been intimate with before. The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration
Versacehottie Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 oh, i have a different view than the others have stated. I could see myself saying the same thing--to be honest, I'm sure I have at some point in a relationship. I think what she could mean is that at some point she just has to trust you. She is letting go of the badgering and arguments about it; her position is known. Perhaps she realizes that continuing to talk and argue about it causes friction to the extent that it is destroying the relationship and it's not worth it. I know that when I've said things of this sort my meaning was that if I had to complain and argue with my guy to get him to do what I wanted, that all it really meant was that he was scared of me and tired of arguing if he did what I wanted, and likely to take whatever behavior i disapproved of underground---not that he would be giving me what I wanted from his heart which is all i ever really wanted really in first place. At a certain point, you just have to let the other person "show" themselves and make their own choices and see if it works for you. Also your girl could realize that at some level it's somewhat of an unreasonable request for her to demand you cut friends out of your life--that's her rational thought; however, she doesn't like it and is emotional about it, which is the irrational. She may just trying to be more grown up and trusting about it. I don't think it means she is losing interest at all unless you have other facts that would back that up. Good luck
TXGuy Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 It sounds to me like she is pulling away from you, in order to break up soon. I don't care if I was in a different country, I wouldn't tell my significant other to do whatever. She may be doing whatever she wants and feels guilty about stringing you along...who knows?!. Be careful because that sounds like break-up talk to me. Ask her point blank, "Do you want to continue the relationship?" Don't beat around the bush with it. It's not just potential breakup talk. It's a shot across the bow. She is operating under your new rules, which means she can have opposite sex relationships too. Basically dating without calling it that. She might keep you around until she progresses with someone local who is a better catch. 2
acrosstheuniverse Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 It is passive aggressive, but if the OP's behavior is supposed to be "OK" then at what point is his behavior not ok? At what point will the OP's girlfriend not have blame projected onto her for is actions? I don't think that his behavior is appropriate for someone that wants to be in a relationship. Maybe when it gets to this point, the she will still be blamed for "jealousy" and "insecurity"? Keeping close "friends" of the opposite gender never help a relationship. Especially when it's someone that you've been intimate with before. The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration I'm just saying, clearly she ISN'T okay with it all or he'd know she was and not be on here stressing. It doesn't exactly matter what the behaviour is, because all relationships have different parameters and it's down to each couple to hash it out and reach an agreement. If she has a problem with his actions she needs to stand by that, not say 'actually, it's fine, do whatever makes you happy'. Personally I don't think his behaviour is out of line particularly, plenty of people have friendships with exes that their new partners are cool about. I'm still friends with guy mates I've slept with or dated in the past, as is my boyfriend. I would meet up with a non-serious ex who was still a friend if they were in town or I was in their town, although I wouldn't travel specifically to see them or vice versa. The personal line that makes me uncomfortable would be being close friends (aka hanging out close, one on one, frequently) with significant exes, i.e. people that I or my partner at whatever time has been in love with in the past, but again that's just a personal preference down to my own gut feeling and not every partner is necessarily going to already hold that same line. But if he decided he wanted to see his serious ex for coffee twice a month and I wasn't comfortable with it, the onus is on me to speak up about it rather than have him agree not to do it and then me backtrack and say 'actually, you know what, it's fine, do what you want'. She wants to see that he WANTS not to do the things that she doesn't like, of his own free will. She wants him to do what she wants but not to feel like he's only capitulating to appease her. It's hardly an unusual tactic and maybe not one she's even taking consciously, it's certainly something I've said to a partner and had said to me in the past, though only in a late teens/early twenties very toxic and jealous relationship, not in a more mature or healthy one.
central Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 In my experience, LDRs seldom work, especially if there is jealousy involved, which is the case here with your gf. If you do what you want, your current relationship is probably over - actually, it may be already given your gf's attitude, but you just don't know it yet. I'd never give up good friends for a relationship, because I value my friends and can set and enforce boundaries as needed, if needed. Anyone I date will learn and accept that, or they can move on - I don't need or want those kinds of jealous restrictions or someone who does not trust me or believe me. It works in reverse too, of course. However, if that trust is violated, I'd expect consequences, and if mine is violated, you can be sure there would be.
acrosstheuniverse Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration Gosh, that article is sad. Even the first point, saying that it's okay to have pals of the opposite gender but keep them at arm's length, as it's just not worth the risk, that is sad. What about the risk that my relationship might end, and my strong platonic friendships of 6-10 years within which I am part of my best male friends' families might suffer and be damaged for good? I feel sorry for people writing off half of the population because of seeing what's between someone's legs rather than what's inside their mind. I have one rule with opposite sex friendships: your partners should generally be welcome. If I'm meeting up with coffee, or going out for food, or heading to the bar, or WHATEVER with a male friend, then my partner is invited, even if they decline to attend. Similarly it is nice to be included along to stuff my boyfriend does with his girl mates, even if I'm busy or I just feel like staying home and getting some me-time. I would never limpet along every time or anything but just knowing that they want you to get along with their friend and the two of you to become buddies is enough I am sure in the majority of cases to put a jealous person's mind at rest. Ditto with the opposite sex friends who I have at one time dated but a friendship remained, the boyfriend is welcome and I'd welcome their new girlfriend. That shows you're truly over whatever you had, that you're just friends, and that you're excited about their new relationship rather than jealous (which would be a warning flag of course). 2
Keenly Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 Your girlfriend is behaving in a very child-like, passive aggressive way. She is unable to communicate her concerns like an idiot so instead she does that stupid " do what you want " BS that my first girlfriend used. Then they get mad when you do what you want. So stupid. Games are stupid.
GemmaUK Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 I'm just saying, clearly she ISN'T okay with it all or he'd know she was and not be on here stressing. I have a different view. he is stressing because he likes her and is now feeling insecure as he isn't getting the reassurance from her being worried about what he does/who he is in contact with. I've seen and also experienced this time and time and time again! What she is saying 'do your own thing' is precisely as it means but also 'be respectful and give me no reason to mistrust you'. There's also something to be said for taking care of your own heart and relaxing..things can and do go wrong so the less you stress and obsess the less harsh it'll be if things don't work out. She is doing that. It's how dating used to be. It's healthy! My only slight concern is what the OP means by 'super friendly' with his female friends... Except for that..which she clearly is now aware of through communication they must have had then..there isn't an issue aside from the OP feeling insecure as his gf is chilling out and seeing the bigger picture.
Elle1975 Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 She has raised issues as for you keeping in touch with the ex. It's your decision to stop it, or not. What is most important to you? Secondly, I'd address the passive aggressive comments too. It's not good for you, and obviously not good for her either. It's something you should talk about with her - provided you want a relationship with this girl to last. I am not saying that this is your case, but you will agree that sometimes keeping an ex around has a clear agenda. The guy, or girl, is still in love or attracted to the ex. They will swear up and down that "it's just a friend". Might be why she feels uneasy with the whole thing.
GemmaUK Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 Looking back at some of your posts it looks like you like independent women (or the idea of) yet perhaps can't really handle when they are so with yourself and in a relationship with you? I could be wrong but it puts more reasoning to my last post. I've personally known quite a few men who have the same stumbling block.
slizl Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 Whenever my girlfriend tells me to "do whatever I want to do" it usually ends up a little awkward the next day. The next morning goes something like this: Me: Did we... Her: Yes Me: On the.... Her: Yup Me: did I put it in your... Her: You sure did Me: Did we use your... Her: Yup, you went there Me: We should probably try that again sometime Her: Absolutely
HeartbrokenNewbie Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 It does give off a bit of a passive aggressive tone but I think she has done this as she has probably thought about it and thought if you are going to cheat she cant stop you which is quite mature if thats the case and the leaving it up to you is so she can she how much time you chose to spend with the friend and from there she can decide in her own head if it could be untoward x 1
Versacehottie Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 yeah i think unless she gets mad all over again after she has told you do what you want, I think she is making a stab at being mature and trying to trust you. It actually could be a great growth moment for the two of you. I DO think that the fact that is upsetting to you could mean that you subconsciously or consciously keep this friendship more important than it needs to be or talk about it to your gf to generate a bit of jealousy as proof or reassurance that gf is very interested in you. Now her saying "just do what you want" is throwing you and you'd rather have the reassurance in the form of gf's jealousy. Guys DO do this, you know? Maybe she is calling your bluff. Needless to say, if you examine your actions and find that you are guilty of this, please stop as no good will come of it.
marcjb Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I'm just saying, clearly she ISN'T okay with it all or he'd know she was and not be on here stressing. It doesn't exactly matter what the behaviour is, because all relationships have different parameters and it's down to each couple to hash it out and reach an agreement. If she has a problem with his actions she needs to stand by that, not say 'actually, it's fine, do whatever makes you happy'. Personally I don't think his behaviour is out of line particularly, plenty of people have friendships with exes that their new partners are cool about. I'm still friends with guy mates I've slept with or dated in the past, as is my boyfriend. I would meet up with a non-serious ex who was still a friend if they were in town or I was in their town, although I wouldn't travel specifically to see them or vice versa. The personal line that makes me uncomfortable would be being close friends (aka hanging out close, one on one, frequently) with significant exes, i.e. people that I or my partner at whatever time has been in love with in the past, but again that's just a personal preference down to my own gut feeling and not every partner is necessarily going to already hold that same line. But if he decided he wanted to see his serious ex for coffee twice a month and I wasn't comfortable with it, the onus is on me to speak up about it rather than have him agree not to do it and then me backtrack and say 'actually, you know what, it's fine, do what you want'. She wants to see that he WANTS not to do the things that she doesn't like, of his own free will. She wants him to do what she wants but not to feel like he's only capitulating to appease her. It's hardly an unusual tactic and maybe not one she's even taking consciously, it's certainly something I've said to a partner and had said to me in the past, though only in a late teens/early twenties very toxic and jealous relationship, not in a more mature or healthy one. What's sad is saying you've "moved on" from your past while you keep it around, then expecting your present relationship to work out longterm. You think it's wrong to get rid of a "friend" that's been around for years, but would rather just get rid of a relationship in favor of getting rid of any specific friend? There's a problem there because that "friend" isn't going to be around forever while a potential relationship would. Also, any opposite gender "friend" either becomes an equal friend of both parties in a relationship or turns into an acquaintance, or just fades away in a successful relationship. You like keeping your ex's around while in a new relationship? We'll see how long that relationship lasts. You write that article off that I linked to, yet it's common sense for any one that's in a successful relationship that lasts without any disfunction. You've been a member of this forum for almost a year now, I would have thought that you would have seen first hand how many topics are created due to EX's and opposite gender "friendships". Either "friend"ship or relationship is going to sink eventually. Which one do you think is going to be around when you're 60 years old? I'll give you a hint, not the former. Edited June 20, 2014 by marcjb
iiiii Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Basically, she's giving you rope, and seeing if you hang yourself. "Do what you want" probably means "do what you want BUT I'll be watching AND if you contact your old friend I'll dump you because you have just PROVEN I can't trust you". It's not very fair behaviour, so I hope I'm wrong.
marcjb Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I feel sorry for people writing off half of the population because of seeing what's between someone's legs rather than what's inside their mind. When you meet new people, become "friends" with those of the opposite gender and get involved with them emotionally while you're in what's supposed to be a committed relationship... It's absolutely no different than to continue dating people. It's not the same thing has meeting new people as acquaintances. This is done by people that never fully commit to their relationship and suffer from G.I.G.S.
kaylan Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 The past is the past, but not really, because you are keeping your past around in the preset. Your first mistake was keeping someone around from your past that you have been intimate before. Your second mistake was thinking it's ok to confide in your relationship with this person. This. I dont date women who stay friends with people theyve dated or screwed. And Id quickly dump a woman if I found out she was still friends with a past lover and talked to them about our relationship. Many of us have seen where those "friendships" usually end up. 1
Author Enjaycee Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 Thank you everybody for the discussion and viewpoints. It has given me quite a bit to consider, and has opened my eyes a bit. To clarify, I do not consider the female friend an ex because we have talked for months, but have only been on one date before we called it off (well actually she dumped me for another dude, but then that dude dumped her, karma!). The last user's post really gave me much to consider, because this girl DOES stay in touch with ex's and remains friends with them. And because of that, I do not have a romantic interest in her whatsoever. I keep in touch with her in order to have a female friend who I can confide in and get some relationship advice for how to handle my current gf, which according to another user is also a mistake. I think it is wrong to give up on my friends, but at the same time I can disassociate from them if it makes the gf jealous or concerned at all. What I meant by "super friendly" is like chatting every night about life problems and giving each other advice, going to visit them from time to time, hugging, physical closeness, any other kinds of touching that could be considered sensual/intimate. I think toning all that down to a conversation from time to time and seeing how they are and what they're up to is appropriate enough. Maybe I learn something from them, or the give me an idea of something to try (like new place to take gf to eat, or date ideas, etc.) which is what all friends can offer to each other. Then again, perhaps not the best idea since I can very well do that on my own. Other people have mentioned the "do what you want" attitude is a passive aggressive behavior. This I can see and understand. And yes, it raised concern because subconsciously I believe I would have been reassured if she responded with a more concerned/caring/jealous response that showed how much she cared. I did not realize that until one user mentioned that above. But now I understand that she is saying this in order for me to prove to her that I am a trustworthy man and someone worth dating/marrying, while at the same time protecting herself emotionally if I were to screw up. Originally she responded like that, but then the nonchalant attitude appeared (which I think she may be burying the emotions too, so as not to protect herself/keep from straining the relationship/not make me want run for the hills/etc.) I trust her because she has told me about the many guys that try to talk to her and hit on her, and she turns them all down and lets them know she's with me. She could easily find someone local, but she is committed to me. So perhaps this "do what you want" stuff is a way of her trusting me, or testing me, to see what I will do, which is to show, of my own free will, that I am committed to her, and not that I'm just trying to appease her, as another user has said. I have told her that since I have female friends, she is welcome to have guy friends too. It's the only fair thing to do, and yes I am aware of running the risk of jeopardizing my relationship in case she finds someone "better" than me. So far, she has had no desire to meet up with any other guy whatsoever, whether it was her female friends guy friends, guys from work, or this kid that's 2 years younger than her whose best friend committed suicide just recently and begged her to hang out with him so he'd have someone to talk to because apparently he has no other friends and his parents aren't there for him much and he lives in a hell hole of a town (and she sympathizes even though she doesn't even know him that well, I have known my female friend for almost a year now). I know that she does not like me keeping up with any female I have ever dated before. And I know she is still committed to me and waiting for me to make my moves or screw up, so its ultimately down to me what I decide to do. So thank you everyone for the responses and discussion. I feel I have been very enlightened, and I'm very appreciative of it P.S. Yes I do like independent women, who do not cling onto their man, and have things going on outside their life, but also who aren't so independent that they have no time their man and he questions why he's even in a relationship if she doesn't even have time for him. 1
Versacehottie Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Basically, she's giving you rope, and seeing if you hang yourself. "Do what you want" probably means "do what you want BUT I'll be watching AND if you contact your old friend I'll dump you because you have just PROVEN I can't trust you". It's not very fair behaviour, so I hope I'm wrong. Actually I disagree. After a certain point of complaining, nagging and getting into fights about stuff, you're just exhausted about it and it's changing you into a person you don't want to be: controlling b*tch. That's not who I want to be in a relationship and guy knows how I feel about it so you give them rope to see who they are for real. Yeah, it's a test to an extent. It's a test to see if she can deal with the person he truly is and to herself to see if she can live with the choices he chooses to make. It's fair. If you told me I would have to nag the guy for remainder of our relationship because I was not comfortable with his choices, that would suck and I wouldn't sign up for that. For some people it's an attempt to get comfortable with his choices: easing up so that he won't be rebelling against you and taking the arguing out of it so you can get comfortable with what he does. That said, some people make these sorts of statements in anger and don't MEAN them at all, in which case, you have a point. Hypothetically: however, it's still fair because at that point it will seem like it's an unresolvable issue in the relationship. Neither side will budge. Although not handled with maturity, will probably just mirror the reasons the relationship won't survive at some point or another. I tend to like to see the positive and do see her statement as an attempt on her end to budge/compromise. Now OP has re-posted and seems like our variety of comments have shed some light so there's some progress. OP's gf may have made best move possible. Guys can be stubborn if you challenge them. Stop challenging them and if they care about you, they tend to do the right thing.
acrosstheuniverse Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 What's sad is saying you've "moved on" from your past while you keep it around, then expecting your present relationship to work out longterm. You think it's wrong to get rid of a "friend" that's been around for years, but would rather just get rid of a relationship in favor of getting rid of any specific friend? There's a problem there because that "friend" isn't going to be around forever while a potential relationship would. Also, any opposite gender "friend" either becomes an equal friend of both parties in a relationship or turns into an acquaintance, or just fades away in a successful relationship. You like keeping your ex's around while in a new relationship? We'll see how long that relationship lasts. You write that article off that I linked to, yet it's common sense for any one that's in a successful relationship that lasts without any disfunction. You've been a member of this forum for almost a year now, I would have thought that you would have seen first hand how many topics are created due to EX's and opposite gender "friendships". Either "friend"ship or relationship is going to sink eventually. Which one do you think is going to be around when you're 60 years old? I'll give you a hint, not the former. I'm not sure what your issue is here, I made it clear that any friends I have that are 'exes' are expected to be friends of the relationship, my bf is invited out if I ever see them, nothing inappropriate is ever discussed... which is exactly what you're saying, that they become friends of the relationship. And you totally lost me talking about 'friends' not being around forever, so it's weird to keep them and risk jeopardizing a relationship. For one, they don't jeopardize my relationships from the perspective of either me or any partners I've ever had (who are secure and mature men), and for two I have many MANY friends that have stood the test of time and several relationships that have failed so I know what I'd put the most stock in when it comes to a friend of many years and a boyfriend of two weeks. This forum only sees the people who are miserable and having issues in their relationships, not the happy couples who are sensible and mature and have friendly bonds with old flames but are secure and happy regardless. I don't know about you, but my friendships last years, they never fade.
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