Starting something with this woman, I think she's been hurt badly before.

[tricolors]

A little background information:

 

Some specifics I'll leave out, I'm always paranoid about people I know (or her) finding something like this in Google!

 

Back in February, I met this woman. She's 39, I'm going on 34. We're both here in the United States, and she comes from a country in Europe I've been infatuated with for a long time, I study the language, etcetera.

 

So, we both used to frequent this same place (NOT a bar or anything like that, rather a fitness thing.) I had seen her around for a while, and I didn't know anything about her. One day, someone who knows her told me what country she was from. At that point, I knew I had to go talk to her, which I did.

 

Within three days of having met her, I asked her for her phone number, and she gave it to me. She's one of the nicest, most empathetic people I've ever met. She would make eye contact with me while walking past me, we'd sit and talk sometimes for 30 minutes or more, etcetera, she'd come up to me and talk to me, and so on. In the coming weeks, I asked her out once, but she was busy. So I asked her again, and she finally agreed.

 

The amazing thing about her is, like me, she's never been married and has no kids. Plus, she's from a culture I'm very interested in. Plus, she has an amazing personality. This is a fairly small area, and she is most likely literally the ONLY single girl from this country here, let alone possessing so many other qualities. Everyone at that place who knows her really enjoys her being around. She no longer goes there, and people know I know her, so they ask me how she's doing sometimes.

 

So, we finally went out recently. We drove an hour and a half to see a show at 6, then we ate dinner at 8:30. We left at 3:30 in the afternoon and got back to our town at 12:30. All those hours together just flew by. We talked the whole time and had fun, despite the fact she was under the weather, which I could tell. I loved being able to get to know her better. I wasn't looking for anything more than that, I didn't try to kiss her, nor would I want to move that fast, or expect anything else. We hugged at the end, which is all I possibly would have wanted.

 

Now, here's what threw me off. I'm going to the country she's from this summer, which I've had planned since well before I even knew her. While we were driving to the show, she mentioned "I'm sure you won't have any problems meeting some nice girls there." So I said "What's wrong with you, you're here?" She replied that she might not be around long (she recently lost her job.) She's trying to get another one, and doesn't know if she'll have to move - - fair enough.

 

Fast forward to the next morning. She texted me and said she really enjoyed the time we spent together, I replied in kind.

 

I was still thrown by the fact she suggested I could find nice girls on my vacation...I'm interested in her! So after talking about it with a friend of mine, I decided to tell her how I feel.

 

I told her she's very unique and special to this area (she is, literally,) I told her she has an amazing personality, that people who meet her love talking to her, I told her it's amazing she's still single, that sort of thing. I told her that I understand the implications of someone recommending you meet other women while you're on a date with one, and that I understand, based on her job situation.

 

So she responded back to me...she said she "didn't even realize we were on a date!" She then said "I've been single for so long I thought we were just going on a friendly trip." She then told me she sincerely appreciated my comments, but that she was "confused" by them. She said they touched her. She implied that I came on a bit strong with that. "We barely know each other," she said, but I didn't even ask for anything! All I did was tell her I was interested in her and getting to know her more. I didn't tell her I love her or anything ludicrous like that.

 

She went on to tell me she's been single for five years, and that she had a really bad break up after a long term relationship. She's moved around a lot, too, so that probably hasn't helped in her getting back into more relationships.

 

So I told her "Don't be confused, I just wanted you to know that I like YOU, I'm not interested in just using you as some kind of walking encyclopedia of information about the country you're from." She's so sweet.

 

She then told me she really appreciated getting to know me more on our "date," and that she doesn't want to stop being friends with me. I told her we can take things slowly and get to know each other more, and she agreed to that. We've been texting and e-mailing each other in the meantime, and learning more about each other. Sometimes she texts me before she goes to bed and tells me to sleep well, things of that nature. She's just texted me yesterday and said she was going to call me this week.

 

Now, after that longwinded explanation of things, here's my question:

 

This woman, she's been single for 5 years. I know girlfriends of hers, she isn't dating anyone else. She'll be 40 soon. Her career is not where she wanted it to be by this point in her life (no job at all right now!) Her last long term relationship ended in heartbreak.

 

Is this why, you think, maybe that she was so surprised and "confused" that I was interested in her? Is there some element of she thinks she's not worthy of someone appreciating her? She was being honest with the fact she may have to move for work, but that could be a LONG way off, and she might even find another job around here. On this point, I told her we should just enjoy whatever time we have, and she agreed. Is it possible she was well aware we were on a "date" but was just embarrassed somehow to admit it?

 

For my background information, I've been single for a long time too, so I don't have any problem taking my time with her, she really is quite special for these parts.

 

Even her girlfriends have a hard time getting her to do anything. She hangs out with her parents a lot, who live here. She's so upbeat and attentive when you're around her, but I can't help but think maybe she's just really depressed or something. She told me she "has a lot on her mind." She's turning 40 in a couple of weeks.

 

All this said, I think she's opening up to me more. I'm just trying to figure her out. She said SHE was confused, I told her I was too! I'm just trying to make her feel appreciated. Whenever she sends me texts in the language I'm learning, I always tell her I appreciate it, or it makes me smile, things like that. Those are genuine compliments, by the way, I'm not just saying them.

 

I just feel like I'm pursuing her a bit more than she reciprocates...but then when I say something she always responds positively. I want her to trust me, it's probably just going to take time.

Edited April 9, 2013 by tricolors

[clia]

Now, after that longwinded explanation of things, here's my question:

 

This woman, she's been single for 5 years. I know girlfriends of hers, she isn't dating anyone else. She'll be 40 soon. Her career is not where she wanted it to be by this point in her life (no job at all right now!) Her last long term relationship ended in heartbreak.

 

Is this why, you think, maybe that she was so surprised and "confused" that I was interested in her?

 

I think she was surprised and confused because she wasn't interested in you that way. I think she viewed you as a nice guy and a friend. Then when you laid the word "date" on her, she just didn't know how to react and didn't want to be rude, so she tried to cover.

 

Is there some element of she thinks she's not worthy of someone appreciating her?

 

I doubt it, but maybe. But I think the bigger thing is that she just seems to want to be friends with you.

 

She was being honest with the fact she may have to move for work, but that could be a LONG way off, and she might even find another job around here.

 

This is a nice way of trying to get out of dating someone.

 

Is it possible she was well aware we were on a "date" but was just embarrassed somehow to admit it?

 

I need more info. Who paid for dinner and the show? Did you pick her up and drop her off? Did you try to kiss her? What distinguishes what you did from two friends going out to spend the evening together?

[tricolors]

Hey, thanks for your response.

 

Here's a little more information.

 

She's been fairly flirty with me - - I never had any doubt she had some interest in me, which is why I was confused about some other things. Her girlfriends knew she was interested in me, because they would even ask me what I thought of her and that sort of thing. She would make eye contact with me before I was even looking at her when we were first meeting. She would smile, touch my arm, that sort of thing. If she wasn't giving me signs, I probably wouldn't have even even asked her out.

 

We went to a very nice theater ($100 tickets) which I paid for. She insisted on paying for dinner, which was at a pretty decent restaurant, so I let her.

 

We live about 35 minutes away from each other. We met at a parking lot of a strip mall that was closest to where we needed to go to get onto the interstate. Where she lives would have required me to drive 35 minutes to her side of the county, then drive 35 minutes back to where we needed to be, so she said she would meet me where we met. I drove us.

 

I did not try to kiss her, nor would I have. I can tell she's a little conservative in that regard. She texted ME first the following morning and said she really had a good time and enjoyed getting to know me better.

 

Some other tidbits:

 

On the drive back from our "date," she stated she told her parents about me, and that they were interested and asked a bunch of questions about me.

 

She said I should come to her house sometime, because she has a lot of interesting things from her travels.

 

Re: Her work: She really does move a lot. She's lived in about 6 or 7 places in the past 12-15 years. She hasn't had much luck finding a stable career in her field.

 

She shares other private details about her life and so forth.

 

Even one of her girlfriends...who she will barely take calls from or hang out with...say she's a little baffled by her behavior.

 

If I think of anything else, I'll post it.

 

She SEEMS like she's interested in me, I know for a fact she's not dating anyone else (and hasn't in a long time,) after we talked again she said she wants to get to know me more, she writes long e-mails in response to mine, and so on.

 

She said she's "interested in getting to know me better in what time she has."

 

She said her last breakup was very painful and it's taken her years to get over it. Her girlfriends tell me the same thing.

 

She said she wants to go out again sometime, and hinted at some of the activities she would be interested in.

 

But combine all that with her sort of wishy-washy attitude towards everyone. Even her friends can't figure out why all she wants to do is hang around her parents.

 

Edit:

 

It's also worth noting she's never dated an American before, and comes from a completely different culture in regards to dating and relationships.

Edited April 9, 2013 by tricolors

[Cutiepie1976]

My read: she just wants to be friends. That seems very clear both from her statements to you and from her actions.

 

You seem unwilling to accept this and sound very enamored with her. Not everyone that we like will like us back. It happens. Niceness and empathy, however, do not equate to romantic interest. Friendly doesn't mean flirty. "No" said in a way to let you down nicely and not hurt your feelings is still "no." Not saying you are necessarily guilty of these things, just be careful not to project your feelings on to her or to misinterpret relatively benign behavior (e.g. prompt email responses) as definitive signs of romantic interest. They aren't.

 

Also, I would stop involving her friends for guidance on what she must really mean and think about you since you didn't like what she said--namely that she doesn't view you as anything more than a friend. Back door intercessions through her friends might be okay in high school, but you're in your mid-thirties. It's awkward and juvenile at this stage. She already told you what she thinks. Who cares what her friends feel she should do? Some would find your need to resort to this type of behavior very offputting. There are effective ways to get someone to reconsider. This is not one of them.

[hppr]

34 year old male, 39 year old female, you think she's got baggage, sorry bud you've got a flat tire and they haven't even waved the green flag yet...

[tricolors]

My read: she just wants to be friends. That seems very clear both from her statements to you and from her actions.

 

You seem unwilling to accept this and sound very enamored with her. Not everyone that we like will like us back. It happens. Niceness and empathy, however, do not equate to romantic interest. Friendly doesn't mean flirty. "No" said in a way to let you down nicely and not hurt your feelings is still "no." Not saying you are necessarily guilty of these things, just be careful not to project your feelings on to her or to misinterpret relatively benign behavior (e.g. prompt email responses) as definitive signs of romantic interest. They aren't.

 

Also, I would stop involving her friends for guidance on what she must really mean and think about you since you didn't like what she said--namely that she doesn't view you as anything more than a friend. Back door intercessions through her friends might be okay in high school, but you're in your mid-thirties. It's awkward and juvenile at this stage. She already told you what she thinks. Who cares what her friends feel she should do? Some would find your need to resort to this type of behavior very offputting. There are effective ways to get someone to reconsider. This is not one of them.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. I wish people would just be honest with these things, though. I told her when I was interested in her that she could tell me if she wasn't. I flat out said that. I said it once, and I reiterated it at the very end of our discussion. I said "If you're not interested in me, it's okay, tell me."

 

What was her response? "I very much appreciate our time together, and I'm happy to get to know you better. Time flew by when we were together." Then she goes on to say she wants to do more things, etcetera.

 

Do you understand why I'm at least somewhat confused now? Yeah, there's some rejection there...but then she sweetens it and says she wants to hang out more. I've asked her on two occasions if she's interested in me, both times I've said "Please tell me an honest answer," and both times she's said she wants to get to know me better and take things slow, and she's afraid to get into a relationship because she might move at any moment.

 

I've told her these things, but she doesn't run away from me, or tell me no. That doesn't mean I don't agree with you, though, maybe she's just too afraid to tell me no even when I ASK her to tell me no. The fact she doesn't want to see me more often than she does obviously does not show high interest, however.

 

Maybe she really DOES want to take things slow.

 

Now, about her friends:

 

They're the ones who talk to me, I don't seek them out. They come up to me and ask me things or tell me things. I see them at the same place I met her. I'm not actively seeking them out, I don't have their phone numbers, or things like that.

 

34 year old male, 39 year old female, you think she's got baggage, sorry bud you've got a flat tire and they haven't even waved the green flag yet...

 

Eh, she's a really great person with a lot to offer.

 

She might not be offering it to me, and that's okay. But she's no flat tire, she's a really good person with a lot going on. I'm sure she'll find something good she deserves some day.

Edited April 9, 2013 by tricolors

[Cutiepie1976]

I understand why you feel the way you do. Hopefully, my post wasn't too harsh. When it's just words on a screen, it can be hard to convey things without sounding unduly blunt at times.

 

In dating you have to accept that not everyone will be as direct as you might like.

 

"No, I can't be in a relationship because I might move."

"No, I don't know you well enough to date you."

"No, I can't consider dating you because I've been hurt in the past."

 

These are all different versions of the same thing--"no." The end result is unchanged. It's still "no" when you peel away her flimsy excuses. Unfortunately, you still don't get to date or explore a relationship.

 

You said she's incredibly nice and empathetic. Some people like that think it's cruel to be direct and tell you, "No, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of a date." They don't want to be the bad guy. Instead you get fluffy, outlandish excuses that you have to decipher. I mean, honestly, what is dating if not an opportunity to learn more about someone you generally don't know well? What type of nonsense excuse was that?

 

Anyway, you seem emotionally invested, so you can't just be friends. You want and will continue to hope for more. Hanging around her will just hold you back and be hurtful in the long run. So disengage from her and her busybody friends, and try to move on with your life. That's by far your best option here IMO. Even if she were on the fence, it's still your best option.

 

You sound like a great guy. Just try again. You'll soon meet a great woman to date.

[ITw]

Don't give up just because people on an anonymous forum tell you she's not interested in being more than friends. I see enough indicators in your first post to show that she could be interested. Could she just not want to rush into it?

[tricolors]

I understand why you feel the way you do. Hopefully, my post wasn't too harsh. When it's just words on a screen, it can be hard to convey things without sounding unduly blunt at times.

 

In dating you have to accept that not everyone will be as direct as you might like.

 

"No, I can't be in a relationship because I might move."

"No, I don't know you well enough to date you."

"No, I can't consider dating you because I've been hurt in the past."

 

These are all different versions of the same thing--"no." The end result is unchanged. It's still "no" when you peel away her flimsy excuses. Unfortunately, you still don't get to date or explore a relationship.

 

You said she's incredibly nice and empathetic. Some people like that think it's cruel to be direct and tell you, "No, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of a date." They don't want to be the bad guy. Instead you get fluffy, outlandish excuses that you have to decipher. I mean, honestly, what is dating if not an opportunity to learn more about someone you generally don't know well? What type of nonsense excuse was that?

 

Anyway, you seem emotionally invested, so you can't just be friends. You want and will continue to hope for more. Hanging around her will just hold you back and be hurtful in the long run. So disengage from her and her busybody friends, and try to move on with your life. That's by far your best option here IMO. Even if she were on the fence, it's still your best option.

 

You sound like a great guy. Just try again. You'll soon meet a great woman to date.

 

I like her plenty, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly emotionally invested in her to the point where I couldn't be friends with her. We've talked a lot, both in e-mail, text, in person, and on our one "meeting," sure.

 

Here's the thing with her: I live in a county of about 150,000 people. She's on of literally probably less than 10 people from her country here, a country which I enjoy, both in language and culture. She's almost certainly the only single female of her kind here, and just happens to be near my age, unmarried, and never had any kids.

 

Now you understand why I hold her in higher regard than many of the women around here. She's simply rare. She's a genuinely decent person on top of that, so yeah, I sort of became interested in her faster than I would someone else.

 

Being that I'm going to the country for two-three months in the summer, and she's offered to meet with me when she can and speak the language with me (which I already have a basis in) I would be foolish to simply blow her off. She told me her dad thought it was cool I had such an interest in the country, and that he'd like to speak the language with me sometime as well.

 

I'm man enough to separate my feelings from someone who isn't interested in me to become friends with a family that if nothing else I'd like to meet and hang out with. Then she told me when I go to France, she even has some friends and family I could meet and stay with.

 

P.S.,

 

Your words weren't too harsh at all, that's exactly the kind of response I'm looking for.

 

Don't give up just because people on an anonymous forum tell you she's not interested in being more than friends. I see enough indicators in your first post to show that she could be interested. Could she just not want to rush into it?

 

I'm not going to give up, but I'm going to stop chasing her as much and see what happens. Like I said...I've been single a while myself...ergo, it doesn't make sense for me to blow up at her because she's not going fast enough for me. Which isn't fast, by the way, I don't expect the world, but it'd be cool if she were at least a little more responsive.

 

I still tend to agree with everyone who said she's just not interested, though.

 

What do you say about someone who has been single for five years? Who has she been interested in? Even if she might move, she might not...why not take a chance?

 

Why does she not even want to hang out with her women friends, or people her own age? She literally almost only does things with her parents. Aside from going out with me last week, she told me she went out to lunch with her girlfriend one day this week. Another one of her girlfriends says she breaks dates with her and always says she's busy.

 

(Being purposefully vague here.) She goes out shopping with her mom, she plays in a sports league, and she plays a sport with her parents. On Friday nights, she has sports training. On Saturday nights, her parents have dinners or drinks with some of the neighbors...all retirees or older people.

 

She simply doesn't do a damn thing with anyone hardly. Is that not weird? It almost seems like depression to me.

Edited April 10, 2013 by tricolors

[Lostint]

Everyone's giving you very negative responses, which I find odd. As a European woman living in the US I can tell you it's not easy to get used to the dating culture here. In my country we usually get to know each other as friends and then start dating. It would be very unusual to get asked out on a date by someone you hardly know. So maybe that's where she's coming from - she may genuinely not have realised it was a date. Especially given the age difference - it probably didn't occur to her that a guy so much younger was genuinely interested.

 

I think you should take it slow and get to know her. You need to earn her trust.

[tricolors]

Everyone's giving you very negative responses, which I find odd. As a European woman living in the US I can tell you it's not easy to get used to the dating culture here. In my country we usually get to know each other as friends and then start dating. It would be very unusual to get asked out on a date by someone you hardly know. So maybe that's where she's coming from - she may genuinely not have realised it was a date. Especially given the age difference - it probably didn't occur to her that a guy so much younger was genuinely interested.

 

I think you should take it slow and get to know her. You need to earn her trust.

 

Apparently I don't have enough posts to private message you or something. There's some stuff I'd tell you / ask you about if I could, I just don't want to post it here in the interest of stuff not showing up on Google.

 

But thanks for your input...because from what I've read, that's what I've seen written about dating in her country.

 

She told me she's never dated an American before. She's been here for so long she barely even has an accent, went to school here, but never dated an American. So, she's far more "American" than you might think, but at the same time maybe it's something like this.

 

I don't know. She's been here so long, I think she knows how stuff works, she's not new here. She's lived in the U.S. more than any other country by a large margin now (she's still not a citizen, though.)

Edited April 10, 2013 by tricolors

[ja123]

I think that she is potentially interested.

 

All I can say, from my perspective, being in her age group, also single for 5 years, and having had romantic and professional set-backs that it's scary to really give thought to possibly getting seriously involved with someone. I've worked very hard for what I have, and there's still a way to go. Plus, there might be personal shame for where she's at right now professionally. All these things could be factors.

 

She sounds really nice from what you described, so just keep trying to be her friend (knowing, of course, that she might move), and see what happens.

[tricolors]

I think that she is potentially interested.

 

All I can say, from my perspective, being in her age group, also single for 5 years, and having had romantic and professional set-backs that it's scary to really give thought to possibly getting seriously involved with someone. I've worked very hard for what I have, and there's still a way to go. Plus, there might be personal shame for where she's at right now professionally. All these things could be factors.

 

She sounds really nice from what you described, so just keep trying to be her friend (knowing, of course, that she might move), and see what happens.

 

Yeah, it's a possibility. It must be at least a little rough to be turning 40 and not having cemented a relationship, career, that sort of thing.

[tricolors]

Well, an update:

 

She wants to go out again next week. She admitted today she's been stressed out over a variety of things, more than what I would say here. She told me she appreciates me listening to her.

[tricolors]

It sounds like there's some cultural differences going on there.

 

Yeah...now that I've done some more research on the issue, and as someone else from Europe pointed out...and this is depending on the country...but the country she's from, the American concept of dating is completely different.

 

From what I gather, they don't even date as such, they meet in groups or simply go for a wallk at first. Going to dinner and a show with someone is considered something you would do with someone you're already in a relationship with.

 

Confused? Yes, I am too.

 

But we're going out on a second date...meeting...thing now. And in this last e-mail she sent me, she opened up more emotionally than she has in the past.

[aburd123]

Okay first off, women are a mystery. You can't figure us out unless we want you to figure us out. Being that she is foreign, she probably thinks and relates a bit differently to things than you do. Do you think possibly there hasn't been enough time to get to know her yet. Maybe you should try to do some different things, spend more time getting together and take a few more months to get to know her. If she wants to be figured out, she will allow you into her heart, soul and her thoughts. Good luck

[tricolors]

Is she from Eastern Europe or Scandinavia?

 

It's western Europe. I don't know why I'm being cryptic on this, I'm just paranoid of it somehow coming up on Google...not that she even searches the internet in English, so I'm just being silly. Probably 1 in 10 million odds of anyone I know finding this site and connecting it to me. FYI, I already accidentally said it once on the first page, so I might as well just say it now.

 

It's France.

Edited April 12, 2013 by tricolors