ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I'm at my dads with my brothers, and one of them is in an argument with his long-term GF. She's nearby and texted him saying that she's near but doesn't know whether to go home or come over. My brother (23), thinking she wants to go home, says that she "should do what she wants to do, if she wants to go home then go home". She gets upset, because she actually DOES want to come over, even for a short while, but she wanted to hear him say that he wants her to come over - for him to take over and make the decision. What ensues was a loud argument over the phone in which me and my other brother (19) got involved, trying to explain to him that she wanted him to take the initiative and that's why she's upset. My brother, incensed at this point, continuously repeats that she sounded like she wanted to go home so he wasn't going to go out of his way. It's a minor thing in the grand scheme, but such a miniscule incident really signifies to me why the man normally makes the decision and is the dominant one most of the time. I told my brother to chalk it up to exp, and it wasn't his fault, but that's how a lot of women will think about it, that he didn't want her to come because he was on the fence about it in his words. She wanted to hear him say he wanted her to come. How do you think you guys would have handled things? Ladies, do you have the same thoughts about this? I think neither was necessarily in the wrong here, but what do you think?
TaraMaiden Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I hate to say it, but I can see your brother's point... it would be nice to think that a GF can actually speak her mind and say what she'd like to do, and act on it, rather than fish and act wimpy and expect him to decide and take the initiative. That smacks of a desire for approval and low self-esteem to me. I'd be more concerned about her attitude than his..........
SmileFace Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I don't think it has anything to do with taking intiative - I just think people need to communicate better and stop with the passive agressiveness. She should have just said she wanted to comeover. 3
Author ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 I hate to say it, but I can see your brother's point... it would be nice to think that a GF can actually speak her mind and say what she'd like to do, and act on it, rather than fish and act wimpy and expect him to decide and take the initiative. That smacks of a desire for approval and low self-esteem to me. I'd be more concerned about her attitude than his.......... I don't think it has anything to do with taking intiative - I just think people need to communicate better and stop with the passive agressiveness. She should have just said she wanted to comeover. I am in agreement, both I and the younger brother said that it was miscommunication and she should have said to my bro that she wanted to come over - where I made the distinction is that SO MANY GIRLS do this. Too many for me to initially chalk it up to low self-esteem. So naturally I thought that it would translate to other areas where she may wish for the same action. It was passive though, and my brother being the short tempered guy that he is , he got upset that she was upset with him and demanded to know why she couldn't just say she wanted to come over. I'm looking at him now and he's still pissed off
Author ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 It seems she wanted to be invited, she wanted to feel wanted. Him "taking or leaving it" didn't secure that feeling in her. He thought he was being nice by giving her options. This was the crux of what we were telling him. We weren't saying that to annoy him or say he was wrong, we were just saying that this is how she was thinking and that's why she said what she said. He was being nice, but he also didn't want to be supplicating and be like "come over" when he wasn't completely sure that she wanted to - because she never said she wanted to come over.
PJKino Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I dont buy that unless women are like children incapable of making an adult decision which i dont believe. There's no reason you have to make most decisions for a grown adult Edited October 1, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Off-topic content redacted
january2011 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Sweeping generalisations on gender aside... Offline, I've found that most women I've come across are not very direct but most guys I've come across appreciate directness. It's akin to asking guys to be mindreaders, but to guys it looks like some kind of sh*t test. When the guy matures, has more relationship experience and/or is more observant, he is better able to pick up these indirect requests. And when a girl matures, has more relationship experience and/or is more confident in her communication skills, she can learn to be more direct and ask for what she really wants rather than beating around the bush. If you are ever on Metafilter, you might wish to search for a post about Ask vs. Guess culture. Your brother's experience described in the OP is a classic example of when the two clash. 2
monkey00 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 IME situations like these usually are more common among younger women. Its not necessarily a self esteem issue, but more about being passive and expecting a guy to take the lead and be more assertive. When a girl gets older and matures more she is more likely to speak her mind. Many women are just naturally indecisive and needs a man to make decisions. Your bros gf wasn't playing games. It is just her personality type. If he doesn't like it, maybe he should date an older woman or someone less passive. I was pretty bad at this when I was younger. But as I'm older I've gotten better at this and being more assertive with women.
CaptJay Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 How do you think you guys would have handled things? Ladies, do you have the same thoughts about this? I think neither was necessarily in the wrong here, but what do you think? I would have probably done what your brother did. I am the poster child for male naiveté when it comes to reading the signals of what women really want when they're saying one thing and possibly meaning something else entirely; I am also clueless when women are flirting with me. My wife has to point it out and then I feel like a dumb a$$! cj
maybealone Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 What ensues was a loud argument over the phone in which me and my other brother (19) got involved, trying to explain to him that she wanted him to take the initiative and that's why she's upset. My brother, incensed at this point, continuously repeats that she sounded like she wanted to go home so he wasn't going to go out of his way. Look at it this way -- she didn't come out and tell him what she wanted, but he didn't come out and tell her what he wanted. She tried to get him to take the initiative, he tried to read her mind to tell her what he thought she wanted to hear. Neither action is better. As for why women want men to take the initiative sometimes... I am pretty damn direct, but I still melt at any phrase similar to "I want to see you." That is, quite simply, an awesome thing to hear from a man.
HopelessRomantic76 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Its so sexy when a man makes decisions and takes control of me because it makes me feel vulnerable and feminine and that im with a dominant powerful man in turn it also makes me feel he can dominate in the bedroom also:love:
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I've noticed this behavior from women before. Needing reassurance, needing you to tell them you want them to come over, etc. I have no tolerance for it and want no part of it. If you're not adult enough to say what you mean and mean what you say then I don't want to associate with you. And I don't care what people say. It's not because these women are young. You never grow out of that kind of behavior.
Ruby Slippers Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I speak my mind when necessary, but I also let the man take the lead when it comes to spending time together. For example, I rarely initiate phone calls, texts, or date invitations. My thinking is that if a man really likes me, he'll make that stuff happen. If he's not interested enough to make sure we spend some time together, I don't even want to bother, and I naturally lose interest. It seems to me that a man responds best when I let him make the advances and extend the invitations, and I'm receptive to them. So that's what I do.
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I speak my mind when necessary, but I also let the man take the lead when it comes to spending time together. For example, I rarely initiate phone calls, texts, or date invitations. My thinking is that if a man really likes me, he'll make that stuff happen. If he's not interested enough to make sure we spend some time together, I don't even want to bother, and I naturally lose interest. It seems to me that a man responds best when I let him make the advances and extend the invitations, and I'm receptive to them. So that's what I do. Sometimes. But mostly, I don't like doing that stuff because it makes a person look needy. I don't want to look needy (even though I most definitely am).
maybealone Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 If you're not adult enough to say what you mean and mean what you say then I don't want to associate with you. I agree, and this applies to the man in this situation as well. I have no tolerance for men that try to read my mind so they can try to tell me what they think I want to hear rather than just tell me what they want.
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I agree, and this applies to the man in this situation as well. I have no tolerance for men that try to read my mind so they can try to tell me what they think I want to hear rather than just tell me what they want. No doubt. I've never experienced things from that perspective though since I don't date men.
Emilia Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Sweeping generalisations on gender aside... Offline, I've found that most women I've come across are not very direct but most guys I've come across appreciate directness. It's akin to asking guys to be mindreaders, but to guys it looks like some kind of sh*t test. When the guy matures, has more relationship experience and/or is more observant, he is better able to pick up these indirect requests. And when a girl matures, has more relationship experience and/or is more confident in her communication skills, she can learn to be more direct and ask for what she really wants rather than beating around the bush. If you are ever on Metafilter, you might wish to search for a post about Ask vs. Guess culture. Your brother's experience described in the OP is a classic example of when the two clash. Pretty much this. Nowdays I'm more direct - well, very direct - especially when I'm dealing with someone younger. It's age and experience I believe.
somedude81 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Why the man takes the intiative Because women are loopy.
Ruby Slippers Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Sometimes. But mostly, I don't like doing that stuff because it makes a person look needy. I don't want to look needy (even though I most definitely am). If you're needy, there's a problem you need to solve that has nothing to do with your date. When my boyfriend calls or asks me to do something, I feel happy and delighted. He could spend his time in any way - and he's choosing to spend it with me. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 If you're needy, there's a problem you need to solve that has nothing to do with your date. When my boyfriend calls or asks me to do something, I feel happy and delighted. He could spend his time in any way - and he's choosing to spend it with me. Ok?...I'm merely making the assertion that when I try taking the initiative it comes off as "being needy". Maybe I should change that. But, really, I don't feel like it. It's easier to just stay how I am and accept that it's not a marketable feature for dating. Oh well.
sweetjasmine Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I'm at my dads with my brothers, and one of them is in an argument with his long-term GF. She's nearby and texted him saying that she's near but doesn't know whether to go home or come over. My brother (23), thinking she wants to go home, says that she "should do what she wants to do, if she wants to go home then go home". She gets upset, because she actually DOES want to come over, even for a short while, but she wanted to hear him say that he wants her to come over - for him to take over and make the decision. I agree with what others are saying about communication, but I think there's also another issue at hand. You were at your dad's place with your brothers. Speaking from experience, it is a little awkward to go hang out with just your partner, his brother(s), and father when they're spending time together. It's very easy to feel like the odd one out and like you're intruding on some family guy time. If I were in her shoes, I'd want to know whether the guys were all actually okay with me stopping by for a little bit. The problem is that once you phrase it that way, everyone else feels obligated to say it's no bother and sure, do stop by! even if it is a bother. 1
monkey00 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I think that if a woman really likes me she'll make stuff happen too. If she is not intrested enough to make sure we spend time together then why should I bother? Eh... Who am I kidding. Do you know why you and all other women don't initiate phone calls, texts, dates or make sure you spend time together with your boyfriend? Do you know why it's always men who do that stuff? Because men like women more than women like men. True story. Us men do it because we want to spend time with our girlfriends. You don't do it because in reality you don't really care about spending time together with your boyfriends. Actions speak louder than words. And from that we can see that men in general feel more strongly about their girlfriends than their girlfriends feel about them. Actually they do say men are more romantic than women actually...When was the last time you saw a woman plan a romantic night with a guy and wooh him? Normally it's the guy doing it. Jumping through hoops, making plans, making sure everything goes right, etc. There is some truth to all those fairy tale stories...
Author ThaWholigan Posted October 2, 2012 Author Posted October 2, 2012 I agree with what others are saying about communication, but I think there's also another issue at hand. You were at your dad's place with your brothers. Speaking from experience, it is a little awkward to go hang out with just your partner, his brother(s), and father when they're spending time together. It's very easy to feel like the odd one out and like you're intruding on some family guy time. If I were in her shoes, I'd want to know whether the guys were all actually okay with me stopping by for a little bit. The problem is that once you phrase it that way, everyone else feels obligated to say it's no bother and sure, do stop by! even if it is a bother. It's never bothered her before . She always comes round, and she's very pleasant. Besides, I don't live there, so my presence is very rare - also consider that usually the house is empty, or if not, they just go into my brother's room. I do understand that particular conundrum, but I think it was solely to do with her wanting him to say he wanted her to come round. She's coming round later anyway so they must have sorted it out between them.
SJC2008 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I speak my mind when necessary, but I also let the man take the lead when it comes to spending time together. For example, I rarely initiate phone calls, texts, or date invitations. My thinking is that if a man really likes me, he'll make that stuff happen. If he's not interested enough to make sure we spend some time together, I don't even want to bother, and I naturally lose interest. It seems to me that a man responds best when I let him make the advances and extend the invitations, and I'm receptive to them. So that's what I do. I can understand this stance early on in a courtship but what about when in an actual relationship? Where's the balance? This "He needs to come to me" attitude is selfish IMO. Men need to feel wanted too and if a woman didn't initiate contact with me after a few dates I'd move on.
Ruby Slippers Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Ok?...I'm merely making the assertion that when I try taking the initiative it comes off as "being needy". Maybe I should change that. But, really, I don't feel like it. It's easier to just stay how I am and accept that it's not a marketable feature for dating. Oh well. Who says it comes off as needy? I can understand this stance early on in a courtship but what about when in an actual relationship? Where's the balance? This "He needs to come to me" attitude is selfish IMO. Men need to feel wanted too and if a woman didn't initiate contact with me after a few dates I'd move on. I guess I prefer a more take-charge kind of guy who likes me a lot and is willing to put himself out there to win me over. If he's not initiating time with me, my interest and attraction just wither away. It does not turn me on to pursue a man. It turns me on a lot to be pursued by a man I like.
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