LeoNguyen Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Back then, a man was expected to go to work and be the breadwinner, while his wife takes care of the house at home. Now he has to talk and communicate openly. He has to share his emotions. That means he'll also cry in front of his wife much more often than did his grandfather. Both of which are great progress in terms of improving a romantic relationship. But does it make him more feminine? Let me know if you have any questions or comments.
Mrlonelyone Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I don't think so. What has happened is that people are starting to realize how absurdly rigid our gender roles were in the west. Take farming. Among Asain cultures a woman out working the fields is a common thing. In western culture the image is of a man, and only a man working the fields. Why? It reaches to hairstyles, clothes even ways of acting.
MrCastle Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I don't know if I would use the term feminine, but they've lost their pride, their dignity, their dominance, sure. Some guys will bend over backwards chasing the golden vag. Hell, some guys don't even get it and still bend over backwards for it (See: Friend Zone)
strongnrelaxed Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Yes. Men are finding it much more difficult to be the good things that a man should be. Search around this site and see what happens to men who step out of the boundaries. The good men of the world are not extreme enough or interesting enough to get any press or attention. If you are a badass you get laid.If you are a nice guy are will be lonely. Some women have babies with badboys and try to marry the good guys later to help them raise those babies. Men are waking up to this and the internet allows the millions of men who see this to connect with each other. It also allows them to step away from the old stereotypes of masculinity - football, violence, arrogance - and towards good men who are thoughtful, reasonable, firm, kind and family oriented. Unfortunately, this will continue to keep these men from getting romantic attention when they are young. But I hope that men are getting stronger and becoming more aware of these old dynamics and avoid ever dating or marrying a single mom or abusive or emotionally manipulative women. In the meantime, others will continue to define what is feminine and what is masculine and the good men will continue to go their own way. 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Also, scientists have said the "Y chromosome" is getting weaker with every generation. Fortunately for us all, the shrinkage of the Y chromosome is selective, affecting only strains of men unsuitable for breeding, societal contributions of any kind, love or fun. 2
udolipixie Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 In my opinion it'll only make him more feminine if talking and communicating openly, sharing emotions, and crying is a feminine thing. If it such is a feminine thing than it seems my gal pals have some validity in mocking and ridiculing guys as unmanly and less of a man for sharing his emotions.
reallyhotguy Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I'm sure your grandfather thought the same thing, and so did his grandfather. In fact, I have a hunch that this very question has been asked since the dawn of time, when men first evolved the ability to complain. 2
kaylan Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 With the amount of whining they do online in dating forums, PUA forums, and Mens Rights () forums....yes they have become feminine in the sense that they dont know how to man up and adapt to the times. PS - whats considered masculine and feminine changes across time and culture. Being able to show emotion does not make a man feminine. 4
carhill Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Hard to know OP. I'm pretty old, and was socialized in a 'traditional' home but my dad was a pretty gentle and kind man, not really macho at all, and my mom came from a farm family of 11 and certainly did work in the vineyard, slaughter animals and drive a tractor. Perhaps that's why I've never really seen rigid gender roles as anything I identify with. Some is nature and some is nature. Everyone's experiences are different. Has this perspective been detrimental to establishing healthy romantic relationships? Perhaps. It is what it is.
jobaba Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Back then, a man was expected to go to work and be the breadwinner, while his wife takes care of the house at home. Now he has to talk and communicate openly. He has to share his emotions. That means he'll also cry in front of his wife much more often than did his grandfather. Both of which are great progress in terms of improving a romantic relationship. But does it make him more feminine? Let me know if you have any questions or comments. The modern man is less feminine and more macho. At least the single ones are. Dating is way more of a bloodbath now than generations ago. Almost every single man is aware that women don't like 'passive men' and 'wussies'. Or at least is aware of the generalization. So, most men who want women have at some point tried to be more 'manly' and 'aggressive'. I have so many stories of guys trying to be more manly, aggressive and cocky to attract women. I guarantee you my father never did that. If he was in the dating game now, he'd get slaughtered ... badly. Edited September 5, 2012 by jobaba 1
monkey00 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I think in certain aspects men have become more feminine. We are a modernizing world with the media selling us and convincing us of things we don't need. Fashion magazines. hair styles. Fashion trends. Social networking. Does a metrosexual man equate to being feminine because he cares about his looks? Does being dressed like a hobo make a man more masculine? It's a massive spectrum. But I think men specifically in aspects with dating and relationships have been changed too much from each generation (and will continue) and will unlikely go backwards. We are on the road to feminization. Several of my guy friends grew up with no father figures or poor father figures and they've become strange/odd adults who can't get their life together or properly ask out a woman for a date even if their life depended on it.
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Also, WRONG. Lets stick to facts or at least logical opinions. Please and thanks Oh, no! What I posted is not a true fact??? My goodness! I must have found some misinformation online. Silly old me! And, as a woman, I think it's completely unfair to be expected to have a "logical opinion," whatever that means. So … how's YOUR Y chromosome holding up?
threebyfate Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 So … how's YOUR Y chromosome holding up? Clapping with one hand doesn't work well, in the game of species continuity.
mortensorchid Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Funny, I was talking about just such a think this evening and not too long ago. I was having an IM chat with a male friend of mine (and former bf long ago but that's another story), who just got married last year. He said he attempted to start his own business but lacked the self dicipline in order to make it work, and his wife is the breadwinner of the household. He said that it made him feel rather immasculated. I asked why he has not packed it up with his business and attempted to get a job doing something else, he said something like "I am rather depressed right now. Don't want to go out with my hat in my hands and be all humble." I didn't know what to make of that except for the fact that he is clearly depressed about it. Have men become more feminine? I don't know the true answer to that. Things have certainly changed within the last 25 years or so. K-12 girls are getting better grades and are more likely to finish high school. Right now nearly 60% of the population enrolled in colleges/universities, community colleges, vocational training, etc. are women. Even in industries where one does not have to have a degree in order to work, dare I say that one does not have to even finish high school, it is populated by mostly women. In fact, of the married women that I have met, half of them are the breadwinners in their households. Quite honestly, I think we're rather confused. We were not prepared for this change, to be sure, but we're here now. I think we have to get ready for some major changes in gender roles, whether we intended or not that they be this way. 1
gaius Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 They have become more feminine. The male form of love is nearly illegal now, considered abusive. Men are suffering because of it. Many are not properly conditioned to deal with failure anymore. You can't even call a kid stupid if he's playing in traffic without getting dirty looks from people.
runner Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 no. i'll let the rest on this board spin the topic in circles, aimlessly. that's all i find worth saying on this.
Snowman219 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Hard to know OP. I'm pretty old, and was socialized in a 'traditional' home but my dad was a pretty gentle and kind man, not really macho at all, and my mom came from a farm family of 11 and certainly did work in the vineyard, slaughter animals and drive a tractor. Perhaps that's why I've never really seen rigid gender roles as anything I identify with. Some is nature and some is nature. Everyone's experiences are different. Has this perspective been detrimental to establishing healthy romantic relationships? Perhaps. It is what it is. My mom has more balls than I do. Definitely a gentle giant here . Thats what they get for dressing me up in pink pajamas : O.
Els Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I don't think so. What has happened is that people are starting to realize how absurdly rigid our gender roles were in the west. Take farming. Among Asain cultures a woman out working the fields is a common thing. In western culture the image is of a man, and only a man working the fields. Why? It reaches to hairstyles, clothes even ways of acting. I have to disagree with this. Gender roles in most Asian countries (not all) are equally as rigid as the West, if not more so. They may be rigid in different ways, but they still are. The lower-class women in some Asian countries sow and harvest the fields, because their men are doing even more physically-demanding jobs, such as working in tin, coal, copper mines, or with heavy machinery. Traditional Asian men are probably the least encouraged to show emotion and tenderness, of ALL cultures. It is very rare that a traditional father will form any sort of loving bond with his children as we know it - he will mostly only provide and discipline. It is also rare for a man to contribute significantly to childcare and housework.
Radu Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Back then, a man was expected to go to work and be the breadwinner, while his wife takes care of the house at home. This only happened for what is essentially a short time in the life of our species. It was an abomination, and it created a backlash effect in feminism today. If anything, feminists should be happy that it ended in that system. Now he has to talk and communicate openly. He has to share his emotions. That means he'll also cry in front of his wife much more often than did his grandfather.I don't think this makes a man feminine. Both of which are great progress in terms of improving a romantic relationship. But does it make him more feminine? Let me know if you have any questions or comments.This alone, does not make him more feminine ... off-course all in moderation. By default these things don't tend to make a man feminine, but we are talking averages here ... which means that on this spectrum there are some who are complete wussbags who cry like crazy and can't do a damn thing alone. I think these ones may have become a bit more prevalent with the shift towards this increased communication. I personally consider Metrosexuality as a bigger factor in men becoming feminine, and from the responses i've seen on this board most of the women don't tend to take them seriously either [too self-involved is an answer they give to these and body builders generally]. -- Have men become more feminine? I don't know the true answer to that. Things have certainly changed within the last 25 years or so. K-12 girls are getting better grades and are more likely to finish high school. Right now nearly 60% of the population enrolled in colleges/universities, community colleges, vocational training, etc. are women. Even in industries where one does not have to have a degree in order to work, dare I say that one does not have to even finish high school, it is populated by mostly women. In fact, of the married women that I have met, half of them are the breadwinners in their households. Quite honestly, I think we're rather confused. We were not prepared for this change, to be sure, but we're here now. I think we have to get ready for some major changes in gender roles, whether we intended or not that they be this way. The mass of women, no ... they weren't prepared for this change. This entire situation i think is one of the main reasons why the number of marriages are dropping. Some ppl feel that the main contributor to this is the fact that both men and women are disenfranchised from the institution of marriage ... but they forget that : - marriage followed by D with an equal distribution of assets all of the sudden doesn't seem so great when you are the one who is the breadwinner; with more men being the SAHD and primary caregiver of the children, and the trend for equal father's rights in the courts, this means more and more fathers will get primary custody of their children - less males that graduate college and get good job, less overal marriageable males ... the options become 1) stay single, 2) lower your expectations considerably
Ruby Slippers Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Emotions and the expression of them is healthy for any human being, male or female. I don't see expressions of emotion as feminine in the slightest, any more than I see hard work as masculine.
GravityMan Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Yes, I think men have become more "feminine". But not due to the reasons the OP mentioned in his first post. A guy showing some vulnerability every once in a while is GOOD, and I don't see that as feminine at all. If a guy failed to show any emotion when his mother died, or any emotion when proposing to his longtime girlfriend...then he's probably got internal issues. However, I do wonder if the increase in boys being raised by single mothers...i.e. no father figure in their lives...has played a factor in more and more young men being more "feminine".
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I'll have a conversation with you when you act like an adult. You are talking like you're 12. That's okay, I'm good!
Feelin Frisky Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 No. The media explosion of the last 25 years where 10 TV channels (give or take) were replaced by hundreds and there are all kind of other media has made for more exposure of all kinds human beings. But they were always there. It just seemed men were more manly when leading men had voices like Gregory Peck instead of Leonardo Di Caprio (not that he sounds effeminate).
Untouchable_Fire Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Clapping with one hand doesn't work well, in the game of species continuity. Is that what the kids are calling it nowdays?
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