Fiancé owes me money, need some perspective

April 23, 2012

Hi all,

Tim here, brand spanking new to the forum, thanks for having me.

To condense a few long stories into a small summary, my fiancé has a money borrowing problem with me. We bought a bed together last year ($800), which she hasn't paid her half for yet. We also bought a big screen TV together, for which I've only seen about $100 from her (my payments have totaled around $450 as of this month). On top of these things, she will "forget" to pay her half when I put the groceries on my card (about $180 this last trip). This recent example has occurred several times. And while it is true that I owed her $300 back a few months, I have very recently paid her back and checked in with her regularly on the debt (even though her debt to me was larger). I know in the grand scheme of things that this isn't a large debt, but there have been several moments in our relationship where this money would have been a life saver. Whenever I raise these issues with her, she gets a sad look on her face, apologizes and says something like "oh yeah". Despite what she says, I can't tell if she forgot or doesn't care.

Let me just say that I love my fiancé very very much, she is the love of my life. But I feel that if these issues aren't resolved, we will have some significant trust issues...I already don't feel like I can trust her word or trust her with money, and it breaks my heart to admit these things. I make slightly less than she does ($30k vs $32k), yet somehow she never seems to have money.

Any advice? Thank you!

April 23, 2012

Yes, she is taking advantage of you. I know you don't want to hear this but if you marry her expect to have financial troubles. She obviously cannot be trusted with money and that makes me think you probably can't trust her regarding other issues as well. You may not like it but you are going to have to get tough with her about your money. Give her a deadline as to when you want your loans repaid. Let her know now that you do not play when it comes to money so she will know what to expect when and if you marry her.

April 23, 2012

You say you're engaged. Have you discussed how you plan to handle your money as a couple when married? There's no way, for instance, with the setup hubby and I have that hubby could "owe me money" for things like groceries or house goods, because that's not how we handle our finances -- but other couples handle it differently. I think it's a mistake to not explicitly decide how to handle your finances before you get married --- that's something that needs to be discussed even if there aren't financial conflicts.

So, I think you need to sit down with her and hash out both these financial issues and the way you want your marriage to look, financially. It's not an "easy" talk for many people to have, but it's a necessary one.

April 23, 2012

First off, you're better off owning the bed & TV set outright, in case of a breakup it's much easier!

You need to decide if her shameful behavior is a relationship deal breaker ( it would be for me) then you need to sit her down & have the money talk.

First, tally up all the grocery trips that she hasn't contributed to.. if the amount is 1K she needs to buy 1K worth of food for the house before you begin to contribute anything towards the food bill again.

Also total up all the other monies she owes you, let her know that these were clearly loans & that you want her to commit now to a specific repayment plan, write that plan down & both of you sign it.

The TV & bed? I would continue to pay those off on your own but get her signed agreement that you own both outright. You can then decide together upon a household purchase that she will make that benefits you both, make it an item or items that equals the cost of the bed & tv.. she will also own the items she purchases outright.

You two need a firm agreement on how you'll handle money & let her know that the "sad face" doesn't cut it when she reneges upon her agreed to fiscal obligations.

April 23, 2012

So, I think you need to sit down with her and hash out both these financial issues and the way you want your marriage to look, financially. It's not an "easy" talk for many people to have, but it's a necessary one.

Yes, talk about it. Tell her your concerns about how things have been handled thus far regarding joint purchases, and see if you can work out a better financial system.

How well you communicate about the issue, and find solutions that work for both of you as a couple, is at least as important (if not more) than how each of you individually handles money.

I'm confused about how you could owe her $300, while she owes you money as well? How do these numbers not cancel each other out?

April 23, 2012

my best friend is like the fiancee and her husband knows she is "no good with money" he told me while she was there not much bothers her, which is why i like her - can OP say the same? accept she is no good with money? or try to put his foot down?

April 23, 2012

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies, some really good advice, I appreciate it.

I'm confused about how you could owe her $300, while she owes you money as well? How do these numbers not cancel each other out?

It's a long story, but here's the short version: I'm a graduate student so my income can be a bit inconsistent. I borrowed some money from her, she suggested that it go towards her debt. It was (and still is) important to me that I pay her back in kind for my debt (the same way I would want to be paid back), and additionally that she can have the opportunity to pay me back straight up for the money she owes. I know it's a bit arbitrary, but it was important for me to show both her and myself that I could pay back money I owed straight up.

my best friend is like the fiancee and her husband knows she is "no good with money" he told me while she was there not much bothers her, which is why i like her - can OP say the same? accept she is no good with money? or try to put his foot down?

That's a tough question...I can accept her for who she is and that she's no good with money, but I think that if we don't find a good compromise that it will put too much strain on the relationship, which won't be fair for either of us.

April 23, 2012

Well, does she actually have any money to pay you back with? If not, and you are living together, where does it go? How do you expect her to pay you back if she doesn't have any?

Has the topic of finances ever been brought up at all? Do you plan to join accounts when you marry?

I am all for equality in relationships, but I feel like there's more to this story.

April 23, 2012

I will never understand how folks that are in love and live together can be so petty about issues of money. If there are issues about money this means the two of you are not a couple, but simply room mates.

If you are in love and live together there is no need to part the TV or bed in two. That is communal property and it does not matter where the money comes from.

If OP is clearly selfish and not truly committed.

By the same token, if the fiancé is taking advantage of OP then she is also selfish.

I suggest the two of you stop living together. You are playing house and it is clear there is no commitment to the relationship.

April 23, 2012

I will never understand how folks that are in love and live together can be so petty about issues of money. If there are issues about money this means the two of you are not a couple, but simply room mates.

If you are in love and live together there is no need to part the TV or bed in two. That is communal property and it does not matter where the money comes from.

If OP is clearly selfish and not truly committed.

By the same token, if the fiancé is taking advantage of OP then she is also selfish.

I suggest the two of you stop living together. You are playing house and it is clear there is no commitment to the relationship.

No it's not "communal property" when only one person is footing the bill for it!

April 23, 2012

Any advice? Thank you!

Long engagement, prenup and financial counseling.

Trust me, she has money; you're just not seeing it. In my generation, there's a saying that 'what's mine is mine and what's his/hers is mine' regarding some couple's styles of managing their finances. If this style is incompatible with your own, then that. Time and counseling can identify and clarify a middle ground or cause you to decide the incompatibility is irreconcilable.

Welcome to LS.

April 23, 2012

I will never understand how folks that are in love and live together can be so petty about issues of money. If there are issues about money this means the two of you are not a couple, but simply room mates.

Totally agree.

If the OP has loaned his fiancé money for something solely for her (clothes, a trip, something like that), then I can see the OP thinking the money should be paid back to his separate account/separate property.

But asking that money spent on the joint/communal/relationship household be paid back? That's petty and sounds like the OP isn't really committed to his fiancé or the relationship.

April 23, 2012

No it's not "communal property" when only one person is footing the bill for it!

They are supposed to be committed to be married. Marriage comes with communal/community property, regardless of whose account buys the GROCERIES.

Unless he wants a prenup... But does he seriously want a prenup to discuss reimbursement for GROCERIES and the bed he sleeps in and the TV he watches?!?

April 23, 2012

It's a long story, but here's the short version: I'm a graduate student so my income can be a bit inconsistent. I borrowed some money from her, she suggested that it go towards her debt.

Well, then she tried to pay $300 towards her debt and you refused it. Odd.

It was (and still is) important to me that I pay her back in kind for my debt (the same way I would want to be paid back), and additionally that she can have the opportunity to pay me back straight up for the money she owes. I know it's a bit arbitrary, but it was important for me to show both her and myself that I could pay back money I owed straight up.

Why? Dig deeper on that one. It really does seem a bit odd to me.

Here's another question: When you purchased the furniture (TV and bed), did you sit down and have discussions about it? What did you discuss then? How do you do your grocery shopping? I think it's hard to judge anything without knowing more about the dynamics, really. I'm not even convinced your fiancee is "bad with money" (well no more "bad with money" than you, OP -- buying a luxury item like an expensive TV on credit isn't great with money, for either of you, to be fair) yet because I don't know what's really happening. Like spookie, I wonder if there isn't more to this story.

I also wonder why people would buy small purchases like that jointly. I mean, none of the furniture in my house was jointly bought by H and I. Yet I use his stuff, and he uses mine, as though they are our own. I do find it disheartening if she agreed to pay at such and such a time and ignored that agreement and ignored when you reminded her, etc (ignoring anything you said you'd do is bad, whether it's money or anything, really), but I'm not really sure if y'all ever had a proper discussion about it.

At any rate, talking it out is the only resolution that can be had.

Edited April 23, 2012 by zengirl

April 23, 2012

They are supposed to be committed to be married. Marriage comes with communal/community property, regardless of whose account buys the GROCERIES.

Unless he wants a prenup... But does he seriously want a prenup to discuss reimbursement for GROCERIES and the bed he sleeps in and the TV he watches?!?

A bed & TV that he won't have if the relationship should end? Yeah, unless the OP relishes the prospect of sleeping on the floor, he'd be wise to clarify who owns these items now.

And if she were my girl I'd be telling her that she best start plunking down her debit card when it came down to buying groceries or she'll be coming home to find nice thick padlocks on the fridge & pantry

Edited April 23, 2012 by soserious1

April 23, 2012

No it's not "communal property" when only one person is footing the bill for it!

Like I said. They behave like room mates. Couples that love each other are not so petty. This is the typical scenario one finds when folks that are not truly committed move in together to play house. They need to live separately so they can properly divide the money.

April 23, 2012

If she is not good with money, have her agree to let you manage both your finances and give her an allowance. Or at the very least, sit down each month with bank statements and receipts to see where the money goes. Maybe she is going to Starbucks several times a day. That adds up over a month.

April 23, 2012

Like I said. They behave like room mates. Couples that love each other are not so petty. This is the typical scenario one finds when folks that are not truly committed move in together to play house. They need to live separately so they can properly divide the money.

If the only options are to either live separately & just get together for fscking & sucking or be stuck paying all the bills, I vote for living separately!

April 23, 2012

I will never understand how folks that are in love and live together can be so petty about issues of money. If there are issues about money this means the two of you are not a couple, but simply room mates.

If you are in love and live together there is no need to part the TV or bed in two. That is communal property and it does not matter where the money comes from.

If OP is clearly selfish and not truly committed.

By the same token, if the fiancé is taking advantage of OP then she is also selfish.

I suggest the two of you stop living together. You are playing house and it is clear there is no commitment to the relationship.

I agree with this for the most part.

OP, being married is about sharing. Not everything is going to always equal 50/50. If I had to split everything 50/50 with a partner tit for tat, I think I would go crazy. That doesn't mean we take advantage of each other but relationships are about being a unit together and sharing. And in my mind's eye, it's more like your just business partners that have sex. However, your future wife does have some issues with money that she needs to work on. I suggest you both sit down and discuss this and how you both want to see money handled in your relationship. Help her to construct a plan to manage her own money better. Make sure your expectations are on the same page. Perhaps even meet with a Financial Planner. Which I am sure you can find at your local bank for some basic information.

April 23, 2012

Well, does she actually have any money to pay you back with? If not, and you are living together, where does it go? How do you expect her to pay you back if she doesn't have any?

Has the topic of finances ever been brought up at all? Do you plan to join accounts when you marry?

I am all for equality in relationships, but I feel like there's more to this story.

Yes she does have money to pay me back with, I just don't think she plans out her finances very well. She makes more than I do, but I think she spends the money before she thinks about how much she needs for the week/month. She spends a good chunk of her money on the usual, like bills, rent, etc. I'm not entirely sure where all of it goes though. Finances have come up, but most of her replies revolve around the notion that she'll make more money someday. We are going to have both separate and joint accounts in marriage.

April 23, 2012

Yes she does have money to pay me back with, I just don't think she plans out her finances very well. She makes more than I do, but I think she spends the money before she thinks about how much she needs for the week/month. She spends a good chunk of her money on the usual, like bills, rent, etc. I'm not entirely sure where all of it goes though. Finances have come up, but most of her replies revolve around the notion that she'll make more money someday. We are going to have both separate and joint accounts in marriage.

If she has money for clothing, makeup & shoes, she's got money to feed herself, she's playing you.

April 23, 2012

one thing - women spend any amount to look attractive, we know how many of you fantasise about sexy models/porn and we try to give you that, indeed some of us enjoy adornment and then we get frightened of looking old, costs money keeping up with the likes of Pamela Anderson i must say - so is your girl too a secret make-up junkie? we mean well...

April 23, 2012

Yes she does have money to pay me back with, I just don't think she plans out her finances very well. She makes more than I do, but I think she spends the money before she thinks about how much she needs for the week/month. She spends a good chunk of her money on the usual, like bills, rent, etc. I'm not entirely sure where all of it goes though. Finances have come up, but most of her replies revolve around the notion that she'll make more money someday. We are going to have both separate and joint accounts in marriage.

So she's paying rent and bills on the place you share together.

And you're going to have joint accounts for the things you share (like groceries, TV, new bed/furniture).

And you owe her money too.

Hmm.

April 23, 2012

Yes she does have money to pay me back with, I just don't think she plans out her finances very well. She makes more than I do, but I think she spends the money before she thinks about how much she needs for the week/month. She spends a good chunk of her money on the usual, like bills, rent, etc. I'm not entirely sure where all of it goes though. Finances have come up, but most of her replies revolve around the notion that she'll make more money someday. We are going to have both separate and joint accounts in marriage.

What are you going to pay for jointly? What are you keeping separate?

Did you, previously with these purchases, work out any decisions beforehand on when you'd pay the money or when she would? How specific were those discussions?

These are all things to consider. Really, I object to vilifying in general in regards to finances when a couple has decided to get married. Marriage is, in part, a financial arrangement. If that part isn't worked out, it's not a good idea to get married. Certainly it should never be about "blame."

April 23, 2012

It's a long story, but here's the short version: I'm a graduate student so my income can be a bit inconsistent. I borrowed some money from her, she suggested that it go towards her debt. It was (and still is) important to me that I pay her back in kind for my debt (the same way I would want to be paid back), and additionally that she can have the opportunity to pay me back straight up for the money she owes. I know it's a bit arbitrary, but it was important for me to show both her and myself that I could pay back money I owed straight up.

Don't you think this seems a bit... nitpicky? I mean, even friends give and take at times. And I've never been in a situation with a friend in which we both had 'debt' towards each other - that sounds ridiculous, to be honest! We'd just cancel it off. Take or give a couple dollars, even.

And she's your fiance. You're entirely within your rights to discuss a financial agreement that makes sense to you, but would you not find it strange to nickle and dime that much with someone whom you're supposed to be spending your life with? I couldn't.

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Fiancé owes me money, need some perspective

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