My relationship exploded last night...

[fishtaco]

Over something small.

 

So my GF was coming over to stay at my place, because I always go to her place. Reason, she has two needy dogs. That's fine, I accept that, and I'm glad she recognizes that and tries to spend some time at my place once every couple months or so, while I spend every weekend at her place. Whatever, not going to fight about this.

 

She didn't get to my place until midnight, so I guess she was just here to sleep. Which is fine, while waiting I was playing Mass Effect 3 anyway. Although last time I didn't get to her house until 10pm because I was busy installing switches at my house, and she got mad at me. Whatever, not going to fight about this.

 

She txted me to come get her after she parked, because it was dark and late at night, and she had to walk across the street. It just so happened that I didn't hear the txt. She got mad at me. So I said I'm sorry, it's not I don't want to go get you, I didn't know you txted. So she got mad at me because I wasn't checking my phone, when I knew she was coming. Then one thing led to another, she said we should break up, because I'm not understanding her, and my apology is robotic and insincere.

 

One thing about me, I don't take ultimatums lightly. If I put the relationship up for ante, that means ****s going down. She expected me to go oh baby! Don't leave me. Well, I grew up in a manipulative household, even if this is not manipulation, I'm very sensitive to it. So I was like okay, if that's what you want.

 

She doesn't really want to break up, so she kept giving me chances to not break up. But I know what she's trying to do, so I didn't cooperate.

 

I'm going to her place tonight to get my stuff. She's going to want to talk. I'm trying to decide if I should give in and talk or just walk away from this relationship.

 

Over something so stupid. Of course, I'm partially to blame too, I'm not playing ball. For me, it'll actually be easier to walk away from the relationship than to work on it... That's my problem, it's something I tried to work on, doesn't seem to be working. I'm heading down the same path again. But why did she escalate to an ultimatum? I don't get it. That's danger zone for me. One single decision made under stress, and I'll be gone and never look back, even if I recognize that it was a bad decision. That's just how I am. So stubborn I can't even change my own mind.

 

But in my defense, I don't like how she throws around breaking up. This is the second time she's doing this. If I give in again, every argument will involve this ultimatum from this point on. You train the people around you how to treat you.

 

Lame....

[tman666]

Yeah, her threatening the break up to manipulate you in the first place was VERY immature of her.

 

Man, it sounds like she kind of showed her hand... I guess it depends on what you're looking for in the relationship.

 

Before you call it quits for good, you might explain exactly the way her attempt at manipulating you made you feel, and explain how acutely aware of such BS you are. Perhaps give her a chance to apologize try to move forward.

 

Either that or kindly bid her adieu. Depends on if you think she's worth the chance.

[WildHorses]

Yo, FishTaco!

 

I was in a relationship where my ex would constantly break up with me. It really bothered me at first. I would not hear from him for a couple of days, I would feel so bad. And, it was always over stupid disagreements. So, I would be sitting around all weekend stressed out, him not taking my calls. He would then finally come around and want to be together. This behavior continued all of the way through the entire relationship. I soon grew numb to hearing the words, "We are done." I didn't even care. We eventually just fizzled out.

 

Communication is key. If you really want to be with her, talk to her about this nonsense breaking up stuff. She needs to stop throwing that up in your face. It's childish and immature. It needs to be squashed right away. Hopefully she will stop doing this. If not, then perhaps it's time to hit the high road. Good luck.

[tman666]

EDIT: Just re-read the last few sentences. You say she's pull the "WELL WHY DON'T WE JUST BREAK UP THEN SCRRREEEEEEEEEEE!!!" crap before in minor arguments? If you've already told her how that's not ok with you, then you need to take some sort of action. Even if it's short of breaking up, you might call a time out to give you a chance to think about what you want, and to give her a chance to reflect on her actions.

[zengirl]

I'm sensitive to manipulation, too, fishtaco, and I'd probably be pretty tempted to just let end, in your shoes, but I would say that if you really are invested in this relationship, going in with an open mind and allowing her to apologize (if she does) and then telling her how you feel about manipulation, etc, is a good thing.

 

Hubby and I had communication issues when dating and still do. What we do is express where we're coming from. He knows any whiff of manipulation and he's lost me completely and all hope at communication is gone. Just as I know that if I raise my voice, even accidentally, or he sense I'm being too combative, he's going to shut down. I don't think any 2 people are going to naturally communicate perfectly, especially those who grew up in houses where there were such issues (seriously, I relate; manipulation pisses me off). I've had communication issues with every man. Ever. I've not done anything as immature as what your GF did over something so small that I can remember (maybe when younger -- I don't know) but people do have bad days. If it's not her normal "mode," I'd be open to an apology, personally. Unless I actually thought the relationship was not likely to be sustainable for other reasons or something. I'm saying if you were otherwise happy.

 

She was surely in the wrong. I guess the question is whether (a) She will realize that and say so and (b) That would be enough for you.

[fishtaco]

EDIT: Just re-read the last few sentences. You say she's pull the "WELL WHY DON'T WE JUST BREAK UP THEN SCRRREEEEEEEEEEE!!!" crap before in minor arguments? If you've already told her how that's not ok with you, then you need to take some sort of action. Even if it's short of breaking up, you might call a time out to give you a chance to think about what you want, and to give her a chance to reflect on her actions.

 

First time she tried this I actually agreed with her point. We had some argument, lover's tiff, stupid stuff. When I'm angry I either can't talk or I'll say all the wrong things. My verbal ability goes to caveman. So I wanted to just bail and talk it out when I'm calmer. She didn't want that, she wanted to talk right then and there, and she didn't want me to leave.

 

She threatened the same thing, so I gave it a second thought, and I tried to side with her. Just like WildHorses post, I could see that walking away for me would be fine, but I'd put her in the same state as WildHorses, sitting around stressed out until the next day.

 

So I did what she wanted, I stayed and talked it out. So her ultimatum worked that first time.

 

This time around she tossed that out way faster than the first time...

[zengirl]

First time she tried this I actually agreed with her point. We had some argument, lover's tiff, stupid stuff. When I'm angry I either can't talk or I'll say all the wrong things. My verbal ability goes to caveman. So I wanted to just bail and talk it out when I'm calmer. She didn't want that, she wanted to talk right then and there, and she didn't want me to leave.

 

Ah! I see. Well, the "breaking up" is crap, but I relate to this. Hubby always wants to table discussions, and I always want to resolve them right away. Neither of us manipulates the other into it. Usually one of us gives in or the other one does. I've learned to give him time, and he's learned to give me a timeframe. For instance, I respond much better to saying, "We'll talk about this in an hour or tomorrow" than "Let's not talk about this right now." Anyway, I'd never dated a man so adverse to "talking" before, so it was new to me, but relatively easy to work out overall. I'm sorry y'all are having that issue.

[january2011]

I suspect that there's a lot going on behind the scenes that she's either unable to articulate or won't. The tiffs are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

My take is that her ultimatums are borne out of frustration in not being able to articulate that she's unhappy and/or she wants you take her unhappiness seriously and thus escalates to the threat for breaking up. The result is that she expects you to be a mindreader, figure out what's wrong and fix it.

 

I know it's a cliche but I suspect feelings of neglect/lack of attention/prioritisation and abandonment issues. And by calling her bluff, she is faced with the very thing that she fears and yet inexplicabley brought about due to her behaviour.

 

If you really want to try to find out what's going on, it may be worth calling her out rather than calling her bluff. Ask her why she suggests breaking up when she doesn't really mean it. And ask her what's really going on - why is she unhappy? You're not a mindreader. You can support or fix something until she articulates what is going on in her head. All you can do is go on her words and actions. And right now, her words and actions indicate that she wants to break up.

[fishtaco]

I'm sensitive to manipulation, too, fishtaco, and I'd probably be pretty tempted to just let end, in your shoes, but I would say that if you really are invested in this relationship, going in with an open mind and allowing her to apologize (if she does) and then telling her how you feel about manipulation, etc, is a good thing.

 

Hubby and I had communication issues when dating and still do. What we do is express where we're coming from. He knows any whiff of manipulation and he's lost me completely and all hope at communication is gone. Just as I know that if I raise my voice, even accidentally, or he sense I'm being too combative, he's going to shut down. I don't think any 2 people are going to naturally communicate perfectly, especially those who grew up in houses where there were such issues (seriously, I relate; manipulation pisses me off). I've had communication issues with every man. Ever. I've not done anything as immature as what your GF did over something so small that I can remember (maybe when younger -- I don't know) but people do have bad days. If it's not her normal "mode," I'd be open to an apology, personally. Unless I actually thought the relationship was not likely to be sustainable for other reasons or something. I'm saying if you were otherwise happy.

 

She was surely in the wrong. I guess the question is whether (a) She will realize that and say so and (b) That would be enough for you.

 

Yeah, that's what happened. She did her thing, I immediately apologized, she kept going, then I shut down. Then there was all kinds of misunderstandings. Her solution is to get me to talk more. I can't do that under those circumstances. The best I can do is to shut up. Because if I open my mouth, it's not going to be good. And she sees that as something negative. Like I don't care or something.

 

I am otherwise happy, this happens about once a month. The last two consecutive times involved the ultimatum.

 

But here's something that LS people may want to string me up for.... I'm coming clean here.

 

I was since day one, only mildly attracted to her. She's a beautiful woman, don't get me wrong, but I'm unfortunately attracted to bimbos and women that are hot, but bad for relationships. So I thought I was doing the grown up thing by dating out of my usual type. And I thought love for her could grow through positive times together. So maybe in tricking myself into this, I ended up tricking her into this relationship.

 

So... yeah... things to think about. If I do break up with her, I'm going back to bimbos, at least for a while. So yes, I'll be single and jumping around, and have lots of stories to tell. I like bimbos, but when when a woman is not date-able, I'm not going to get into an LTR with her no matter how hot she is.

[Star Gazer]

A fight/breakup over a missed/unread text is rarely actually about the missed/unread text. Yes, that would be "something so stupid."

 

But you totally glossed over the real issue: she told you that she feels you don't understand her and your responses are robotic and insincere.

 

Translation: "I don't feel like you really care about me."

 

And in all honesty, if you're willing to walk away from this relationship so easily/quickly, manipulation or no manipulation, I'm inclined to understand why she'd feel that way.

 

Now what?

[fishtaco]

A fight/breakup over a missed/unread text is rarely actually about the missed/unread text. Yes, that would be "something so stupid."

 

But you totally glossed over the real issue: she told you that she feels you don't understand her and your responses are robotic and insincere.

 

Translation: "I don't feel like you really care about me."

 

And in all honesty, if you're willing to walk away from this relationship so easily/quickly, manipulation or no manipulation, I'm inclined to understand why she'd feel that way.

 

Now what?

 

Sounds like I'm talking to my GF. Glad you chimed in. I appreciate the support posts, don't get me wrong, but nothing is ever one sided. I already know I'm partially at fault here.

 

So let me practice on you then. I'm sure your responses would be very similar to my GF's.

 

Like zengirls' post, this IS my baggage. What I was doing, was getting into a fetal position and hiding under a rock while sucking my thumb until the storm passes. I grew up in a family where my parents fought every single day. I don't do well in these sort of conflicts.

 

She on the other hand, wants to talk. So she would coerce, guilt, and finally throw out the ace card, to get me to talk. But since I don't talk and my brain has deteriorated to that of a neanderthal, every thing I say would be forced, and comes out in an even and measured manner. Because I'm trying REALLY hard to not say anything wrong. And I'm trying REALLY hard not to get emotional. I do NOT want to replay my childhood.

 

So I care, but the perception she read, was I don't care. Then if her perception matters, shouldn't my perception matter too? Who's perception wins?

 

The practical answer, is whoever is willing to walk away. But I don't want to go there. That's too... harsh and realistic. Plus I know me. Once I get into the arms race, I win, even if it's to everyone's detriment.

 

Your thoughts?

[Star Gazer]

Like zengirls' post, this IS my baggage. What I was doing, was getting into a fetal position and hiding under a rock while sucking my thumb until the storm passes. I grew up in a family where my parents fought every single day. I don't do well in these sort of conflicts.

 

She on the other hand, wants to talk. So she would coerce, guilt, and finally throw out the ace card, to get me to talk. But since I don't talk and my brain has deteriorated to that of a neanderthal, every thing I say would be forced, and comes out in an even and measured manner. Because I'm trying REALLY hard to not say anything wrong. And I'm trying REALLY hard not to get emotional. I do NOT want to replay my childhood.

 

So I care...

 

Have you told her this? Does she know about your history/childhood?

 

If I didn't know my SO's history, I'd misread a lot of what he says/does. Luckily for us, he was pretty open in the very beginning sharing enough of his history (parents/childhood) that I understand what he's trying to avoid for himself. It requires patience on my part, but I would be truly exasperated if I didn't know.

 

She sounds desperate to get you to open up to her. Opening up and sharing your feelings doesn't have to be a "fight." And really, it shouldn't be.

[sid3]

Your thoughts?

 

+1 for Bimbos!

[fishtaco]

Thank you everyone for your post, feel free to add more if you're late to the party.

 

And sid3, yeah, bimbos are awesome, as long as you're not looking for LTR.

 

Have you told her this? Does she know about your history/childhood?

 

If I didn't know my SO's history, I'd misread a lot of what he says/does. Luckily for us, he was pretty open in the very beginning sharing enough of his history (parents/childhood) that I understand what he's trying to avoid for himself. It requires patience on my part, but I would be truly exasperated if I didn't know.

 

She sounds desperate to get you to open up to her. Opening up and sharing your feelings doesn't have to be a "fight." And really, it shouldn't be.

 

Ok SG. You've convinced me. I don't know if I'm still going to end up walking away, but I will tell this to her, and see what she says.

 

I have mentioned this to her before. But maybe not this specific. I told her I prefer to walk away and talk about it later, my parents fought all the time, and I don't do well in conflicts... that was the last "ultimatum" we had. And I had explained myself, of why I wanted to walk away and talk about it later. But I think I need to do it again and make it specific to this case, as I've explained here to you.

 

But I still don't appreciate the manipulation.

[Star Gazer]

Don't accuse her of manipulation. That's a loaded word. Instead, tell her you understand her desire to perhaps test you, but explain that it will only backfire.

 

And tell her about how you felt as a child, and how that fighting made you feel, and how it's that fighting that you want to avoid, and that there are more constructive ways to handle disagreements and misunderstandings.

 

But above all else, make sure you communicate to get that you DO care, and that while you're sometimes not so good at showing it, you're working on it but need her help in developing an emotionally safe space.

 

Just don't give up so easily. Good luck!

[zengirl]

That's some solid advice from SG. Assuming you do care enough about the relationship to want it to continue.

 

I'll add that due to my past (not the same as yours, fish, but similar enough) I'm inclined to think things are manipulation a lot of the time when it may not be the person's conscious intent (a lot of people manipulate quite accidentally) and pointing it out generally ends that cycle of manipulation, as the person never intended too.

[Star Gazer]

It's funny. This thread is reminding me a lot of my first "fight" with my SO...

[fishtaco]

Don't accuse her of manipulation. That's a loaded word. Instead, tell her you understand her desire to perhaps test you, but explain that it will only backfire.

 

And tell her about how you felt as a child, and how that fighting made you feel, and how it's that fighting that you want to avoid, and that there are more constructive ways to handle disagreements and misunderstandings.

 

But above all else, make sure you communicate to get that you DO care, and that while you're sometimes not so good at showing it, you're working on it but need her help in developing an emotionally safe space.

 

Just don't give up so easily. Good luck!

 

Good advice. Had I used the word manipulation, I think I'd be on my way to a third "ultimatum".

 

I'm learning a lot here. My women speak isn't good. Now I know, substitute "manipulation" with "desire to test".

 

SG, would you say you are a womanly woman? My girlfriend is. I find, and I'm sure most guys also, that it's easier to get along with tomboys. My girlfriend is the most womanly woman I've been serious with. And I'm just a caveman with computer skills. So understandably we have a lot of misunderstandings.

[Star Gazer]

I'll add that due to my past (not the same as yours, fish, but similar enough) I'm inclined to think things are manipulation a lot of the time when it may not be the person's conscious intent (a lot of people manipulate quite accidentally) and pointing it out generally ends that cycle of manipulation, as the person never intended too.

 

Yes.

 

My SO and I had an argument because he thought I had "lashed out" at him in an effort "to get him to respond a particular way." He didn't use the word manipulation, but that's obviously what he thought I was doing... Which wasn't the case at all. His past led him to assume things a bit and fear the worst.

[fishtaco]

That's some solid advice from SG. Assuming you do care enough about the relationship to want it to continue.

 

I'll add that due to my past (not the same as yours, fish, but similar enough) I'm inclined to think things are manipulation a lot of the time when it may not be the person's conscious intent (a lot of people manipulate quite accidentally) and pointing it out generally ends that cycle of manipulation, as the person never intended too.

 

That's true. I tend to err on the side of assuming it's manipulation. It's just that my childhood left such a bad taste in my mouth. You know I was sad the fact that I wasn't even sad when my dad passed away?

 

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. My GF should thank SG and you. And you two have my thanks too. I'm going to try to resolve this. She had no idea how close I was to just ending it. I was fully capable of walking in there, get my stuff, not utter even one single word no matter what she says, and get the hell out and never looking back. Not because I don't care, but because that's the best defense against manipulators, and it has become my default even if I erroneously perceived a situation as being manipulated.

[Star Gazer]

Good advice. Had I used the word manipulation, I think I'd be on my way to a third "ultimatum".

 

I'm learning a lot here. My women speak isn't good. Now I know, substitute "manipulation" with "desire to test".

 

SG, would you say you are a womanly woman? My girlfriend is. I find, and I'm sure most guys also, that it's easier to get along with tomboys. My girlfriend is the most womanly woman I've been serious with. And I'm just a caveman with computer skills. So understandably we have a lot of misunderstandings.

 

In relationships, yes. I'm very much a womanly woman. During our argument/conflict, my SO actually said, "You are such a girl." (He didn't mean it in a bad way.)

 

He's very skilled with words... Note how he expressed that he thought I was manipulating him, without using inflammatory language that would make me get defensive or intensify the situation.

[Star Gazer]

It just depends how you view "manipulation." In a way, she IS manipulating you because she's trying to get something out of you: get you to open up and express some emotion. But don't assume that all manipulation has ill intent. Ya know?

[whichwayisup]

Over something so stupid. Of course, I'm partially to blame too, I'm not playing ball. For me, it'll actually be easier to walk away from the relationship than to work on it... That's my problem, it's something I tried to work on, doesn't seem to be working.

 

If you truly were in love with her, this wouldn't be an issue at all. obviously you two care about one another but (on your side) there's not that flutter heart in love feeling happening. Which is why it's easier to walk away than stay and fix it. She's not worth fighting for..?

[whichwayisup]

One question. Why didn't she CALL you. Why text? To me, that's half of what people fight about and it's so stupid. If she had called your cell or landline if you have one, you would have heard it, yes?

[Eternal Sunshine]

You are forcing yourself to be in a relationship with someone you are only mildly attracted to. That's the real problem. She senses it too. She knows that you are not that into her.

 

Why not just be honest with yourself and her?