Why Do Men Keep Falling for Women's Manipulative Shaming Tactics?

[musemaj11]

"Real men treat women special."

"Real men act like a gentleman."

"Real men protect women."

"Real men work hard and provide for their women and children."

"Real men pick a woman up and drive her around."

"Real men open doors and pull chairs for women."

"Real men carry things for women."

"Real men pay for dates."

"Real men don't let women pay."

"Real men plan dates."

"Real men ask women out."

"Real men approach women first."

"Real men initiate first kiss."

"Real men initiate sex."

"Be a man."

 

"Real men do this" and "real men do that" are very common manipulative tactics that women often use in order to get men do what they want them to do. They are simple yet very powerful and effective tactics that even men themselves have learned to accept and even use them to shame other men.

 

Personally I would never have recognized the existence of these manipulative shaming tactics that are routinely used by women had I not read the book "The Manipulated Man" two years ago.

 

But it saddens me to see that the majority of men are still ignorant of the fact and gleefully strive to meet the psychological deceptions that women constantly throw at them.

 

I wonder what can be done to enlighten men around the world to recognize that women are exploiting their prideful nature in order to do their dirty works?

[Emilia]

A lot of men find living up to these expectations effortless. They also find they are able to compete with men such as yourself successfully by being assertive and confident. They probably don't feel manipulated, they just do what they have to do to get laid.

[musemaj11]

A lot of men find living up to these expectations effortless. They also find they are able to compete with men such as yourself successfully by being assertive and confident. They probably don't feel manipulated, they just do what they have to do to get laid.

Lol, here we have a perfect example of a woman using manipulative shaming tactic in a thread about manipulative shaming tactic by women. Oh the irony.

[ffw]

"Real men treat women special."

"Real men act like a gentleman."

"Real men protect women."

"Real men work hard and provide for their women and children."

"Real men pick a woman up and drive her around."

"Real men open doors and pull chairs for women."

"Real men carry things for women."

"Real men pay for dates."

"Real men don't let women pay."

"Real men plan dates."

"Real men ask women out."

"Real men approach women first."

"Real men initiate first kiss."

"Real men initiate sex."

"Be a man."

 

"Real men do this" and "real men do that" are very common manipulative tactics that women often use in order to get men do what they want them to do. They are simple yet very powerful and effective tactics that even men themselves have learned to accept and even use them to shame other men.

 

Personally I would never have recognized the existence of these manipulative shaming tactics that are routinely used by women had I not read the book "The Manipulated Man" two years ago.

 

But it saddens me to see that the majority of men are still ignorant of the fact and gleefully strive to meet the psychological deceptions that women constantly throw at them.

 

I wonder what can be done to enlighten men around the world to recognize that women are exploiting their prideful nature in order to do their dirty works?

 

To be honest, it happens when men stop using their brains & think with their *****.

[Jynxx]

Paging Pierre

 

Seriously, this is how society works, but most people are too blind to see it. People try to manipulate other people into behaving in a way that benefits themselves. In this case it's not women initiating this, but women being talked into believing this crap and being encouraged to turn guys into weak spineless creatures. This benefits people who want a spineless society where men do as they're told and do not stand up against people treating them unfair. Not a coincidence there's a correlation between influence of religion on society and this attitude in the Western world over the last centuries.

[ThsAmericanLife]

"Real men treat women special."

"Real men act like a gentleman."

"Real men protect women."

"Real men work hard and provide for their women and children."

"Real men pick a woman up and drive her around."

"Real men open doors and pull chairs for women."

"Real men carry things for women."

"Real men pay for dates."

"Real men don't let women pay."

"Real men plan dates."

"Real men ask women out."

"Real men approach women first."

"Real men initiate first kiss."

"Real men initiate sex."

"Be a man."

 

"Real men do this" and "real men do that" are very common manipulative tactics that women often use in order to get men do what they want them to do. They are simple yet very powerful and effective tactics that even men themselves have learned to accept and even use them to shame other men.

 

Personally I would never have recognized the existence of these manipulative shaming tactics that are routinely used by women had I not read the book "The Manipulated Man" two years ago.

 

But it saddens me to see that the majority of men are still ignorant of the fact and gleefully strive to meet the psychological deceptions that women constantly throw at them.

 

I wonder what can be done to enlighten men around the world to recognize that women are exploiting their prideful nature in order to do their dirty works?

 

Maybe some women try to convince men they have to do these things, but I never have.

 

In fact, I read plenty of threads here by men telling other men they have to do these things... things that I sometimes find a bit obnoxious and old-fashioned. I'm not a little girl.

 

I've always felt the above did not demonstrate one iota of care and consideration for me.... that it is just parlor tricks some men play to make you think they care. These same men are offended or suspicious if the woman asks them out, insists on paying for their own way, or initiate sex. We're painted as evil, dominating women... out to emasculate men by taking over their traditional 'roles'. Ridiculous.

 

I do get a bit tired of reading your rants like the above. There are plenty of women who don't feel the need for the above and prefer men didn't... at least beyond common courtesy extended to any human being that is. Women like me want a partner, not a daddy.

 

Perhaps you need to square with your own insecurities (the ones not driven by women) and work harder to seek them out. They do exist.

[musemaj11]

Maybe some women try to convince men they have to do these things, but I never have.

 

In fact, I read plenty of threads here by men telling other men they have to do these things... things that I sometimes find a bit obnoxious and old-fashioned. I'm not a little girl.

 

I've always felt the above did not demonstrate one iota of care and consideration for me.... that it is just parlor tricks some men play to make you think they care. These same men are offended or suspicious if the woman asks them out, insists on paying for their own way, or initiate sex. We're painted as evil, dominating women... out to emasculate men by taking over their traditional 'roles'. Ridiculous.

 

I do get a bit tired of reading your rants like the above. There are plenty of women who don't feel the need for the above and prefer men didn't... at least beyond common courtesy extended to any human being that is. Women like me want a partner, not a daddy.

 

Perhaps you need to square with your own insecurities (the ones not driven by women) and work harder to seek them out. They do exist.

I think we just have to agree to disagree.

 

It seems the world I live in is not the same as the world you live in. The fact that our observations of our surroundings differ doesnt mean either of us is wrong. You notice plenty while I notice few and vice versa.

 

Also Im fully aware that men use few shaming tactics toward women as well. Such as calling a woman "a prude" in order to get a woman to put out if she refuses to or labeling promiscuous women "sluts" in order to reduce female promiscuity.

[zengirl]

I have never used the phrase "Real men" (unless maybe it was to make fun of a commercial that used that phrase or something) in my life. I do date men who do many of those things, of their own accord, to show their affection, and that's lovely, but I would never try to convince someone to treat me right. I'd just not be interested in someone who didn't WANT to treat their partner with caring and respect in whatever way worked for them.

 

OP, your posts are the statements of a bitter, bitter man, and you're wasting your life with all this bitterness, really. It's sad.

[musemaj11]

 

OP, your posts are the statements of a bitter, bitter man, and you're wasting your life with all this bitterness, really. It's sad.

I am a cynical man who is disappointed by reality.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I think we just have to agree to disagree.

 

It seems the world I live in is not the same as the world you live in. The fact that our observations of our surroundings differ doesnt mean either of us is wrong. You notice plenty while I notice few and vice versa.

 

Also Im fully aware that men use few shaming tactics toward women as well. Such as calling a woman "a prude" in order to get a woman to put out if she refuses to or labeling promiscuous women "sluts" in order to reduce female promiscuity.

 

It comes across as an excuse... kinda like when I was growing up and people told me 'girls aren't good at math'.

 

Sure, there might have been plenty of objective evidence at the time to prove that... but I didn't give a cr*p about that. You know I have a PhD in engineering now, doncha?

 

I could have listened to them and missed out on a very fulfilling life choice... threw my hands in the air and said oh well, why bother? But I didn't.

 

You don't have to either. If some ladies say they feel all warm and fuzzy when you pay for them (as an example), then they aren't for you. Really simple. Seek out women who want a partner... The ones who want to be taken care of just aren't your style.

 

That said, you will have to deal with the other characteristics of independent, assertive women that maybe you haven't squared with either. Perhaps that is the source of your cognitive dissonance?? You want the girly-girl types who love and nurture you and fold like butter at your command, but you don't want to comply with the macho stuff those kind of girls like? Yea, I can see how that would be a recipe for frustration.

[oaks]

"Real men open doors and pull chairs for women."

 

If it's a check-list then I only score half-marks, yet I'm currently dating someone. On our first date I made her find her own chair from the other side of the bar. Turns out she's capable of doing that all by herself, and she can open doors. Amazing!

[rightfield]

I'm the kind of guy who tends to do all of those things on the OP's list.

 

Here's where it really gets annoying. Sometimes being too nice and a gentleman actually turns women off. I have had it turn off a woman who represented herself as the type of women who appreciates these things.

 

Worse, while I was in the process of being nice, and digging my own hole, the woman didn't say anything about it. Only after several dates do I learn that my nice guy approach is being interpreted as me being "needy."

 

So then after ignoring her for a week, she told me that I was "the total package" and "I don't want you to dump me." I suppose she was wrong about the "needy" label.

 

I'm not bitter, but I do admit that I struggle with how nice to be. It isn't in my nature to be a jerk, but I've found that being too nice is a sure way to fail. I feel like I'm in training to be developed into one of the players that so many women revile, and these same women are my instructors!

[oaks]

A lot of men find living up to these expectations effortless.

 

Absolutely! Well, the ones I care about I find effortless. When I'm dating someone I'm just me, rather than putting on an act, and it turns out to be surprisingly easy to be me. The hard bit is to find a woman who likes me (although it's currently working).

[Emilia]

I'm the kind of guy who tends to do all of those things on the OP's list.

 

Here's where it really gets annoying. Sometimes being too nice and a gentleman actually turns women off. I have had it turn off a woman who represented herself as the type of women who appreciates these things.

 

Worse, while I was in the process of being nice, and digging my own hole, the woman didn't say anything about it. Only after several dates do I learn that my nice guy approach is being interpreted as me being "needy."

 

So then after ignoring her for a week, she told me that I was "the total package" and "I don't want you to dump me." I suppose she was wrong about the "needy" label.

 

I'm not bitter, but I do admit that I struggle with how nice to be. It isn't in my nature to be a jerk, but I've found that being too nice is a sure way to fail. I feel like I'm in training to be developed into one of the players that so many women revile, and these same women are my instructors!

 

You are picking the wrong women, not all of us are like that. A good woman knows the difference between a nice man and a needy/spineless one.

 

It is hard to find a decent partner, no matter what sex you are. Most people are a bit simple unfortunately and think in very simple terms.

[carhill]

I wonder what can be done to enlighten men around the world to recognize that women are exploiting their prideful nature in order to do their dirty works?

 

When that subset of the general population of women is identified, shine a light on them and their deeds. I did this in MC when I spotted aspects of behavior which aligned with those identified by both men and women on LS as manipulative. I said those words 'I feel manipulated and that is unacceptable'. In a law-abiding society, I walk away. That's legal and healthy.

 

My best friend rewards such behaviors (identifying and walking away) with an hour or two at the range. He's been a good teacher, both regarding manipulation as well as with firearm handling and technique. It works

[dasein]

I have never used the phrase "Real men"

 

You just did, right in the same post, it merely needs translating:

 

OP, your posts are the statements of a bitter, bitter man, and you're wasting your life with all this bitterness, really. It's sad.

 

It merely needs the reasonable leap from "bitter" to "not a real man." We aren't stupid, regardless of semantics, the manipulative intent is transparent.

 

I don't want to get into all the ways people manipulate each other, but in a culture where the reproductive capacity must be protected or extinction results, i.e. mankind until the 19th-20th century, what I'll call "external tool use" (am sure there is some term of art for this, don't know it though) is not allowed in the female. In other words, you can't have the women out hunting because if they get hurt, it damages the reproductive capacity of the village, and if that capacity becomes damaged enough, a high infant mortality rate and low life expectancy will kill the village. So women in successful villages used local tools, close to home, to perform their function in the village. So out there in the broader external environment, where the meat is got, the spear is the tool of man, and man is the tool of woman. The female manipulates man as a tool in the same way the man manipulates the spear. Since we are the progeny of successful villages, not the ones who sent women out hunting and died out, this has become deeply ingrained over eons. (They call the above paragraph "thousands of years of oppression at the hands of men" see how that untrue historical contortion is really just more manipulation?)

 

Now we live today in an environment where high life expectancy, low infant mortality rate, and safer external technology allow the reproductive capacity of the village to participate in all facets of tool use, local and external, without threatening extinction of the village. So women are increasingly using the exact same tools men are. Yet the eons bred innate tendency towards manipulation remains.

 

How long will it remain? How long will women badger, shame and cry us into submission? I like to think that it won't take them very long, as the cerebral cortex is a powerful thing, and indirect manipulation of the environment through other human beings is much more inefficient than simply using tools oneself. Another part of the answer is how long are we willing to allow ourselves to be manipulated? and your OP spells out that the answer is likely "not long." See we manipulate women to engage the reproductive process, and that kind of manipulation has been also bred for eons, and involves compliance with female manipulation in a "manipulative circle" LOL. Yet it doesn't take too much time in an easy sex environment for men to not worry so much with what they must do, or rather allow themselves to be manipulated in turn, to manipulate the reproductive capacity into compliance.

 

The internet is the first means of effortless mass communication between the genders, potentially free of the manipulative tendencies bred into us. IMO, it won't be too long before women realize that the inbred manipulation tendency is inefficient, increasingly counterproductive even, and as they realize they are fully capable of using any tools in the environment themselves, there is no need for it.

 

My grandfather needed little manipulation, "anything she wants" was the mantra, the roles were so ingrained.

 

My father needs some manipulation, "your mother is a pain, but keeping her relatively satisfied shuts her up."

 

I am not easily manipulated at all, and when it's attempted, the results are not to women's liking generally. As you list in your OP, you are familiar with the manipulation techniques and thus resistant and reactive to them.

 

That's only three generations, how many more will it take? Probably not too many.

 

It's funny seeing them flail around here using the same old same old, kind of like watching someone try to tread water with their feet tied together. "You are just bitter," "you must not be good with women," "you just don't deserve to have a partner," etc. It's equally funny seeing men trying to use the same old "comply with her wishes and she will comply with mine" and then "wait a minute, I complied with her wishes yet she did not comply!?! why does she not comply? I brought her meat!?! she bedded Yog who brought her no meat, he rode up on a shiny wheel, but with no meat!?! Sacrilege!" Same kind of flailing, equally funny. We are all the dupes of each other, but hopefully the end is in sight.

[mike111]

"Real men do this" and "real men do that" are very common manipulative tactics that women often use in order to get men do what they want them to do.

 

 

Remember that show called 'The Bob Newhart Show'? Well, Bob played a psychologist. And one day his wife was trying to emotionally manipulate him. And all he said was, "I know why you said that."

 

Hot damn! It worked like a wonder. Maybe give that a shot, next time you find yourself being emotionally manipulated.

[Dusk1983]

dasein showing once again why I never miss one of his posts. First class post sir, and essential reading.

[eatNrM]

Everyone has to deal with manipulative tactics of some kind. With the media being the biggest culprit of all. While I'm not sure about defining a 'real man'..I would say a "Real Man" is one who defines himself. And also does not fit into anyone ideals.

 

With regards to a lot of the things in your list, I see most women taking quite a liking to these things. Why? Well, they just naturally respond to it. Many times, I think it's better to go with the flow of something, than question the logic behind it, no? The reason why I say so is because the probability of this changing is <1 % because women just love that stuff. Instead of fighting it, why not provide it?

[Mme. Chaucer]

If it's a check-list then I only score half-marks, yet I'm currently dating someone. On our first date I made her find her own chair from the other side of the bar. Turns out she's capable of doing that all by herself, and she can open doors. Amazing!

 

Obviously you're a fake man.

[mike111]

While I'm not sure about defining a 'real man'..I would say a "Real Man" is one who defines himself. And also does not fit into anyone ideals.

 

 

I like that

[oaks]

Obviously you're a fake man.

 

Could be!

 

She makes me feel real, so I'm not complaining.

[Taramere]

I'd be horrified if a man didn't pull a chair out for me when we went out for a meal. What if there's a cobra curled up on the seat waiting to pounce? Surely the man is physically more equipped to fight it than I am?

 

On the other hand, there's an argument for women carrying a live mongoose with them on dates, so that they can tackle the potential cobra-on-the-seat problem without the man's assistance.

 

Holding the door open for me is a must. If you don't hold the door open for me, how am I supposed to remember to walk through it? I might forget we're together and go wandering off on my own. Shopping for shoes, or something like that.

 

Really, if a man doesn't enjoy or is uncomfortable with these little chivalrous touches, then he shouldn't do it. I've heard men complain before about women who responded angrily to their attempts to be chivalrous, so evidently there are women out there who the non-chivalrous man would be suited to.

[oaks]

If you don't hold the door open for me, how am I supposed to remember to walk through it?

 

:lmao: You mean your man doesn't put his other hand on your butt to propel you through the door? What on earth is he thinking? He's obviously not a Real Man.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I am not denying that there are women who use manipulation and shaming.

 

Truly, though, lots of guys do some, most or even all the things on that list not because they are falling for any "tactics" employed by women.

 

As noted already, plenty of "savvy" guys use these very behaviors to manipulate women.

 

These behaviors have their roots back in Mediaeval times. They were considered "courtly." They were developed by men, not women; knights and courtiers specifically.

 

Like lots of other manners, they might be arcane and quaint. I honestly don't believe that they are debasing to men unless the man who is doing them feels that way. If that is the case - he is doing himself a disservice, and should never open the door for a woman or pay for a date again.

 

My husband likes to do many of the things on that list, and his feelings would be hurt if I put a stop to it.

 

If we are going out to dinner, I do wait for him to open the car door for me. I took his cue on that; when we were dating he made quite an effort to be at the door on time to open it for me so I felt like I was showing a lot more appreciation for the effort he was making than I would be if I dismissed it. Frankly, it was hard for me to get used to!

 

In everyday life, though, we may have been unloading several tons of hay together earlier that day.

 

MrNate is right, though. If you like someone - and you know they like something you can do - it behooves you to do it, unless it hurts you to do so. Works for women and men equally. Makes for happy relations. Lots of us are interested in having them!