self professed "good guy"/"nice guy"

[annabelle75]

I’ve date a lot of so called “good guys” and “nice guys” in the last two years and they have all left me with a bitter after taste. A good decent man that treats a girl right in theory is what every girl wants, right? Why can’t a girl find happiness with a self professed “good guy” that just doesn’t have a lot of luck with girls? If you read the forums here it would seem guys are under the impression that girls prefer jerks or losers that treat them badly. That seems to be the excuse many “good guys” seem to cling to. On behalf of women every where I would like to dispel that myth. IT IS NOT TRUE!

 

All women want a good, decent man that treats them well. We don’t like guys that don’t return our calls or treat us like crap when their friends are around. We’re not crazy. So why are their all these “good guys” wandering around dateless? The answer is a lot more simple than most guys want to admit. Its easier to assume that there is something wrong with the entire female gender than to do a little self inventory and figure out why you are not datable. If you have ever caught yourself complaining about how you are such a good guy and you treat women well so you can’t figure out why you haven’t been on a second date since the Clinton administration, you need to keep reading.

 

After my divorce, every friend I had wanted to set me up with one of their “good guy”/”nice guy” friends. On paper they all seemed to sound good. Most of them were in their early to mid 30s. They had solid professions and their friends all raved about how they were the nicest guys in the world. Most of them weren’t half bad looking either. So, what was wrong with them? I’m gonna guess some of the “good guys” here are making the same mistakes my string of “good guys” did. Below I am going to make a list of red flags that scared me off from seriously dating any of them. I hope it might help some of you with you future dating experiences.

 

1. If you play WoW (or are a member of any other obsessive online fantasy community), STOP! Or at the very least don’t give a detailed description of the 5 Elvin female characters you take turns playing during your first date. It screams “LOSER.” Now you may just play it for fun sometimes and not take it at all seriously, but when most mature women hear “WoW” they immediately picture a middle aged man sitting at his computer at 3am in his underwear talking to a bunch of other losers doing the same thing. Unless the girl you are dating plays as well, you might as well be begging her to lose your phone number.

 

2. If you describe yourself as a “nice guy” than you actually should be a nice guy. I dated one guy that everyone I knew swore up and down that he was the nicest guy and best friend anyone could ever meet. We meet at a party and hit it off. I thought it might actually go some where. WRONG! With in three weeks I got sick of his pseudo-nice guy routine. He was really nice to people’s faces but it seemed every time he introduced me to new friend of his, it was followed up by him explaining to me later everything he disapproved of about them. I felt as though he was proclaiming himself to be a nice guy because he was so generous as to allow people who weren’t really good enough for him to be his friends. If you call yourself a “nice guy”, you might want to stop and ask yourself “am I really that nice?”

 

3. Every grown man (and woman) should have a checking account. I’ve been out with 3 different men in the past year alone that for one reason or another did not. They all had lengthy excuse about wives or ex-girlfriends that ran up bad debts with their banks or what not. It doesn’t matter how it happened. Fix it. Nothing screams fiscal irresponsibility than a man that can’t write a check.

 

4. Stop dressing in clothes you just pulled out of the hamper, or at least look like they have been. Girls like a guy that looks good and takes pride is his appearance. It doesn’t matter if your clothes are from the Banana Republic or WalMart, just make sure they aren’t wrinkled and the colors don’t clash. Girls want a guy that looks good when they walk down the street together. If you want to be a “catch” you have to look like one.

 

5. Clean up your car. It doesn’t matter if you drive a Mercedes or a Dodge Dart, keep it clean. Do not show up for a date with 3 weeks worth of fast food wrappers in the back seat.

 

6. Practice good hygiene. Brush your teeth daily. The fact I even have to say this makes me gag a little. If you smell bad you aren’t getting a second date. There is no excuse to not shower daily.

 

If you really are struggling meeting women and have convinced yourself that it is because women like *******s, you really need to do a little self analysis and figure out what about you is undatable. What is it that is turning women off? I will tell you up front that it is not because you are nice. You can treat a girl like a princess and it won’t matter if you are giving off a “loser” vibe.

 

If any women here want to add to the list, go right ahead. I think there are a lot of men out there that need to hear this. As a whole, women do like nice guys. We just don't care much for the socially disfuntional, with BO, that need to borrow gas money kind.

[peace_pipe]

I already follow all of the advice you gave, as most of it is common sense.

 

Yet, I can't find a good woman for the life of me!!!!!

 

And I could write a similar post directed towards women.

 

I dress well, shave daily, have a good job, have a checking account, don't talk about video games excessively, and have 2 CLEAN cars! I also do all my own laundry and cook since I have yet to meet a woman who helps out with that stuff.

 

I am undateable! Eternally single.... I have dated many, many women recently and none of them could offer me any of this in return!

 

Well, maybe one - but I am not getting my hopes up.

 

Some of what you wrote is a huge double standard. Just like don't talk about WoW - neither should you talk about the 30 pairs of shoes you have!

[peace_pipe]

Just want to make sure a lot of what you posted is a double standard.

 

I have met many women who have no jobs, the live off their ex's or daddy. Many, many men will overlook this. Welcome to America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[annabelle75]

I already follow all of the advice you gave, as most of it is common sense.

 

Yet, I can't find a good woman for the life of me!!!!!

 

And I could write a similar post directed towards women.

 

I dress well, shave daily, have a good job, have a checking account, don't talk about video games excessively, and have 2 CLEAN cars! I also do all my own laundry and cook since I have yet to meet a woman who helps out with that stuff.

 

I am undateable! Eternally single.... I have dated many, many women recently and none of them could offer me any of this in return!

 

Well, maybe one - but I am not getting my hopes up.

 

Some of what you wrote is a huge double standard. Just like don't talk about WoW - neither should you talk about the 30 pairs of shoes you have!

 

Not a double standard at all, at least not for me. I don't expect a man to offer me anymore than I am willing to give.

 

I think it would be a great idea if you did make a list and post it here. I think there are plenty of us women here that would like to know what sacres men off or screams "loser."

 

When I wrote this I hadn't read your threads here yet. I swear this was not directed at you.

[Cobra_X30]

LOL.... agreed ... but, not all the dateless "nice guys" out there are sloppy losers.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of the "nice guys" that dont fare well with women are not aggressive. It really comes down to confidence and aggression. I cant even begin to tell you how many friends I've had that were excellent wonderful guys... but they lacked that key.... confidence.

[peace_pipe]

I have another comment, specifically about the WoW comment.

 

First off, I don't see why many women perceive video games badly.

 

I was recently told by someone whom I am dating that she believes "video games" to be for kids. This was, of course after she saw me playing Call of Duty on my 8' projection screen.

 

I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's a game, something we do for entertainment, to get our minds off of everyday monotany.

 

I don't see it as any different than watching a movie, or TV. I personally do not watch much TV, but I don't label those who do as a loser.

 

I think women are afraid that our hobbies, especially video games compete with them for our attention.

 

I will play games in one form or another to the day I die.

 

You ladies should get over it because there are much worse things your man could be doing.

[Krytellan]

Annabelle, I want to date you just for knowing what a Dodge Dart is

[serial muse]

Hm, I feel pretty much neutral about most of the items on your list, but #2 - if you call yourself "nice" think about whether you really are - rings absolutely true.

 

Sometimes, I have to say, it really astonishes me to hear certain people describe themselves as "nice" when what they really mean is "passive-aggressive." Great if you don't slap someone around or cheat on them. That's step one. But being an engaging, interesting, appealing partner isn't just about not cheating...and to my mind, it's certainly not just about your flashy possessions or aftershave, either. Bor-ing. It's about the kind of person you are, whether you are capable of empathy and insight into others, whether you're able to take a genuine interest in another person for who s/he is, and not for whether having them go out with you means you're now a success as a human being. You should be able to figure out how to feel that way anyway.

 

Seriously. It's not "nice" to complain about how badly some ex treated you or to talk about how most people of a certain gender suck - even if you're simultaneously saying "except you sweetie". Bull; anyone worth his/her salt knows that such an exception is inherently temporary and is only as good as the last disappointment. It's not "nice" to focus almost exclusively on what another person can do for you, how the other person should be behaving in order to please you. That's selfish and self-absorbed. It's not "nice" to secretly think everything wrong is someone else's fault, even if you don't say so out loud.

 

The bottom line is that many people can still sniff out the scent of buried hostility, even if they can't quite put their finger on why they find another person to be distasteful, and even if it's carefully hidden behind a pleasant, door-opening, dinner-paying facade.

[annabelle75]

I have another comment, specifically about the WoW comment.

 

First off, I don't see why many women perceive video games badly.

 

I was recently told by someone whom I am dating that she believes "video games" to be for kids. This was, of course after she saw me playing Call of Duty on my 8' projection screen.

 

I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's a game, something we do for entertainment, to get our minds off of everyday monotany.

 

I don't see it as any different than watching a movie, or TV. I personally do not watch much TV, but I don't label those who do as a loser.

 

I think women are afraid that our hobbies, especially video games compete with them for our attention.

 

I will play games in one form or another to the day I die.

 

You ladies should get over it because there are much worse things your man could be doing.

 

First off if playing video games gets in the way of you spending time with your GF than it might be a problem. I once dated a guy that would dissapear for days at a time and cancel plans becasue he was playing WoW. Once I found out what he was doing he got thrown to the curb fast. Playing video games isn't really a problem, but if you are obsessed with some fantasy world, it is..

 

But if it really is just a hobby you enjoy then you'll just have to find a girl that likes guys who play video games. Many woman think they are childish. Even though you may disgaree it is how many women feel. These women are just not the ones you should be dating. We are all entitled to have our own likes and dislikes.

[annabelle75]

Annabelle, I want to date you just for knowing what a Dodge Dart is

 

you drive one, don't you?

[annabelle75]

The bottom line is that many people can still sniff out the scent of buried hostility, even if they can't quite put their finger on why they find another person to be distasteful, and even if it's carefully hidden behind a pleasant, door-opening, dinner-paying facade.

 

Bingo! Just because a guy opens doors doesn't mean he is nice.

[peace_pipe]

Bingo! Just because a guy opens doors doesn't mean he is nice.

 

Everybody has their moments....

 

I am not a "nice" guy myself. I have a personal vendetta to put childish, ignorant women in their place. But I will open a door or two....

[peace_pipe]

Many woman think they are childish. Even though you may disgaree it is how many women feel.

 

Many women are childish and immature. Even though you may disagree this is how many men feel.

[halfarock]

I always hear guys that aren’t getting women going on about how women don’t like nice guys, that they only like jerks and losers. Sounds like sour grapes talking. I’ve never had problems getting women to like me and I am a very nice guy. I always treat women with respect and am very courteous towards them, even with ones whom I’m not fond of. Always they respond favorably. But then there is a lot of charming and flirting that goes along with it.

 

I’ve always thought that women are most attracted to those guys that somehow fit with that image in their head of the guy that they’d like to be standing next to. Those guys that aren’t getting women, to me, don’t look like the type of guys that most women would feel proud to stand next to. A lot of times when I’m out I’ll see these guys and they will be dressed in a way that I’m sure that they are thinking that they are fashionable and cool and whatever. But, I’m sure, women are looking at them and thinking, “What a dork.”

[monkey00]

A lot of times when I’m out I’ll see these guys and they will be dressed in a way that I’m sure that they are thinking that they are fashionable and cool and whatever. But, I’m sure, women are looking at them and thinking, “What a dork.”

 

You can be fashionable and still a cool dork, which is socially acceptable now. And believe me, i know women are are into guys that have a dorkish side.

 

annabelle, your red flags are common sense, but I find it hard to believe these guys self proclaimed themselves to be 'good guys'. If so, then they need to rephrase it.

 

I dont think either sexes are perfect, and not everyone has 'common sense'. Sometimes you just have to work with what you got or move on to greener pastures.

[jcster]

I've found that most self-proclaimed "nice guys" are actually passive agressive little losers. They view relationships as some sort of role-playing game, and if you just go through the motions, you'll achieve a relationship. They don't take into consideration personal taste, rules of attraction, or even simple animal magnetism. Everything is quid pro quo. They'd do better to decide what THEY like than to try and "seal the deal" with every woman they meet by waving their nice guy sign.

[jcster]

Many women are childish and immature. Even though you may disagree this is how many men feel.

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

 

Neither gender has the corner on immaturity, and the finger pointing is getting old.

[Curmudgeon]

Even though you may disagree this is how many men feel.

 

Both of your two acquaintenances, huh?

 

Please don't presume to speak for men as a whole, or even many of them. Like attracts like so based upon your other postings, the ones you hang with have little regard and no respect for women. Thankfully, you don't typify the rest of us.

 

The vast preponderance of the men I know are mature, settled, married, professional and have very healthy attitudes towards and opinions of women. Perhaps the key word there is "mature."

[norajane]

"Nice guys" who really aren't as nice as they think they are:

 

- chronically late guy

- the guy who insists you go with him on every camping/hiking/climbing/Star Trek convention/bird watching retreat/tractor pull/whatever-he-likes-to-do, but never once will step foot in a museum or art gallery or something you would like him to do

- the guy who avoids your family functions of every kind because they're 'too much pressure' (including birthday parties, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and even just a summer barbecue with immediate family, even if it includes beer)

- the guy who sulks at a restaurant because dinner is too expensive, but then freaks out and gets mad if you offer to pay for him

- the guy who somehow has never heard of Valentine's Day, conveniently misses all the hearts and flowers inundating TV, radio, and internet, and then is surprised that you want to do something special with him that night

- the guy who is dismissive or demanding with service staff (waiters/waitresses, taxi drivers, the guy at Blockbuster, etc.)

- the guy who really has no interest in the community or world outside his own immediate concerns

- the guy who has NO sense of humor about himself

- the guy who is afraid to look foolish or be embarrassed so he limits what he is willing to try, even if it is something you enjoy (dancing)

- the guy who is so busy being nice to his ex that he is still at her beck and call whenever she breaks a nail

 

...shall I go on?

[StartingOver07]

I also do all my own laundry and cook since I have yet to meet a woman who helps out with that stuff.

 

Forget about dating. I'll marry you!

[JackOfClubs]

My two pennies.

 

The whole "nice guy" thing is a myth. All humans will have their good days and bad days and your "nice guy" can turn into Mr. Hyde under the right conditions.

 

I don't think it's really nice guys versus jerks, but friends versus lovers. That is, there's the guys women would like to have as friends and then there's the guys who arouse that attraction in a woman that makes her want him as more than a friend. The "friend" guys can be admired, respected, and even found good-looking, but ultimately they end up being treated like a brother figure or a father figure.

 

Then there's guys with that something extra. In most cases, it appears that X-factor is confidence (as opposed to arrogance). But it could be any number of other things. Maybe charm, charisma, maybe a guy fighting for a good cause.

 

It's easy to list what a woman does or doesn't want from a guy. Harder to quantify that magic that brings two strangers together. What kind of women do you attract? That might answer what kind of guy you really are. And if the kind of women you attract aren't the kind you want to be with, then maybe your approach/presentation needs a little tweaking. Everybody attracts somebody else. But if you want to attract a certain kind of somebody, then make sure you're somebody they'll find attractive (physically or otherwise).

[lino]

1. If you play WoW (or are a member of any other obsessive online fantasy community), STOP! Or at the very least don’t give a detailed description of the 5 Elvin female characters you take turns playing during your first date. It screams “LOSER.” Now you may just play it for fun sometimes and not take it at all seriously, but when most mature women hear “WoW” they immediately picture a middle aged man sitting at his computer at 3am in his underwear talking to a bunch of other losers doing the same thing. Unless the girl you are dating plays as well, you might as well be begging her to lose your phone number.

 

2. If you describe yourself as a “nice guy” than you actually should be a nice guy. I dated one guy that everyone I knew swore up and down that he was the nicest guy and best friend anyone could ever meet. We meet at a party and hit it off. I thought it might actually go some where. WRONG! With in three weeks I got sick of his pseudo-nice guy routine. He was really nice to people’s faces but it seemed every time he introduced me to new friend of his, it was followed up by him explaining to me later everything he disapproved of about them. I felt as though he was proclaiming himself to be a nice guy because he was so generous as to allow people who weren’t really good enough for him to be his friends. If you call yourself a “nice guy”, you might want to stop and ask yourself “am I really that nice?”

 

3. Every grown man (and woman) should have a checking account. I’ve been out with 3 different men in the past year alone that for one reason or another did not. They all had lengthy excuse about wives or ex-girlfriends that ran up bad debts with their banks or what not. It doesn’t matter how it happened. Fix it. Nothing screams fiscal irresponsibility than a man that can’t write a check.

 

4. Stop dressing in clothes you just pulled out of the hamper, or at least look like they have been. Girls like a guy that looks good and takes pride is his appearance. It doesn’t matter if your clothes are from the Banana Republic or WalMart, just make sure they aren’t wrinkled and the colors don’t clash. Girls want a guy that looks good when they walk down the street together. If you want to be a “catch” you have to look like one.

 

5. Clean up your car. It doesn’t matter if you drive a Mercedes or a Dodge Dart, keep it clean. Do not show up for a date with 3 weeks worth of fast food wrappers in the back seat.

 

6. Practice good hygiene. Brush your teeth daily. The fact I even have to say this makes me gag a little. If you smell bad you aren’t getting a second date. There is no excuse to not shower daily.

 

I think you've described a slob rather than a nice guy. Slobs can be nice guys or as*holes.

I considered myself a nice guy up until I was last dumped in June & I wasn't remotely like what you described above.