Witch-hunt

[doeblin]

A rather strange thing happened recently: I found myself in front of an inquisitorial committee made up of my best friends.

 

The three of them were talking about "what's wrong with me" and I had to be my own attorney. This all just happened organically during a pub night.

I was the first to admit that I can be insistent, that I am prone to outbursts, but I was quick to add that this only happens with two of my friends, not others, so there must be a reason behind it, not just me. (They tend to propagate bizarre worldviews for one, and tend to close off when hearing other point of views.) I have other friends I am perfectly normal buddies with. AND I made some new friends too.

 

 

One of the inquisitors, Ryan, even said that "this is all because of what kind of child you were, and we can explain everything... why you're such a jerk and wrong about things".

Now, certainly everyone is influenced by their childhood to an extent, but this was patently ridiculous, because Ryan is a much more recent friend, who only got to know me in my adulthood, and the only things he knows about my childhood is the little I told him. When I pointed this out, he said I am being defensive... Well of course I bloody am, when you attack my character and try to reduce all the myriad aspects of my personality to a thing you don't know much about!*

 

 

Neal, the other friend who had these "problems" with me, dismissed this theory, and said I am "just a c*ck, that's all, everyone knows this."

 

 

 

 

Another friend, Sean, was much more neutral during all this, and he too dismissed Ryan's wonky idea. The only thing Sean said is that I can be too insistent of things. I agree. I guess he would say it's typical I even start a thread on a forum instead of just "letting it go".

 

 

 

But it was all very peculiar, it felt like a bizarre intervention, that doesn't even have any objectives. Not unlike a witch hunt. It went on for two hours! They probably went on after I left. I wonder how many people had this kind of experience?

 

 

With Neal, who's been my friend for the longest, we can get past this, but it's getting hard for me to think of Ryan without a slight bitter taste in my mouth. Ryan is younger, and I've been a kind of a mentor to him through the years, and it seems like he tries to push me away with attacks on my character. Sure, sometimes I was harsh with him, but after heated arguments I always said I am sorry. He never did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What to make of this? Are they being good friends?

 

I need the wise people of Loveshack to chime in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*(BTW I had a normal childhood, with all the joy and angst that goes with it. No abuse, death or anything. Nothing unusual.)

[preraph]

Well, the best and only thing you can do is keep an open mind and keep thinking about what all they said, dismissing some and considering other aspects. As far as you're insistence and being unwilling to let things go, when others feel you are wrong, only since that seemed to be the main thrust, maybe ask yourself a number of questions.

 

Who's the earliest person I knew who dug in and always had to be right and wouldn't let go?

 

Who's the earliest person I knew who wouldn't dig in and hold their ground against someone who wouldn't let it go and was usually wrong?

 

What was going on in my life, generally, at the earliest time I can remember being this way, insistent, tenacious, not open to other opinions? What year was it? Were there any major events that year?

 

What is the first specific incidence you remember when you really noticed this about yourself? What were the specific circumstances that made this seem necessary?

 

All you can do is try to find the beginning of it and see if it's based in logic or not. I'm sure you've heard people talk about "right fighting." Many people find it so important to be right that they can never be open enough to another view. Those people are usually pretty unhappy because it's the quickest way to ruin relationships, pretty much. If you have any reason to think this could be you, you can find things about it on the internet. Here's one where Dr. Phil chimes in about it:

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Dr. Phil's Rules for Fighting

[doeblin]

I guess I can be guilty of the occasional "right fighting".

What I find a bit ironic however is that my infamous outbursts were LITERALLY about open mindedness.

 

Just to give an example:

 

All of us are educated young men from working class backgrounds.

 

As soon as Neal got a white collar job, he started to look down on the "proles". Now given our background I really hate this kind of attitude. Then Neal says class system is bollocks anyway. Then I ask him which sociologist did he read to arrive at this conclusion. (None.) And then HE clings to his frankly classist worldview and says I am talking bull****. And people with foreclosed houses deserved their fate. I say things are a bit more nuanced than that. I ask him to give me good reasons and he just can't come up with one. Then I say (a bit more heatedly by this time) that maybe you should try to consider other point of views as well, like read some books from time to time. Then he says I am an arrogant bastard.

 

I guess I was somewhat arrogant, but at least I was not vile.

 

 

But as I've said this only happens with Neal and Ryan. And they are the ones to bring up these hot topics most of the time. Sean said I am basically right about things its only my short fuse with N&R that can be off-putting. With Sean we have thoughtful and considerate conversations.

 

There's another guy in my inner circle, Tim, and our relationship is really amicable. No heated arguments whatsoever.

 

The other day another buddy of mine said some racist remarks, and I bit my tongue. I am capable of that. I don't have to be the champion of the people. Sometimes I just want to have fun with friends. I am happy with my life.

[doeblin]

I have pretty much resolved this in myself, I'm writing this to collect my thoughts...

It's a pity though this part of Loveshack is not as active as others, because emotional abuse is pretty hard to perceive from the inside, whether you're the victim or the culprit.

 

And "right fighting", constantly berating others for trivial stuff, is a kind of emotional abuse. (not their terms btw) And abuse is a serious issue.

So this concerned me. Am I a terrible friend? A bad person?

 

And I guess it is very hard to feel sympathy for the one who does the chastising.

 

However

 

When I considered the actual contexts of my castigations, it's obvious things are not black and white.

 

Consider this almost verbatim conversation with Ryan:

 

Ryan: I think it's perfectly reasonable to tell your kids to stay away from certain minorities.

doeblin:What?!

R: I mean it's well known they commit more crimes. You just tell your kid: don't even talk to them.

<doeblin chide mode ON>

There was also an instance of Ryan questioning and trivializing a friend's disability.

 

And the thing that stuck in his mind the most, what seems to have hurt him the most, what he had brought up, is when I have called him a "juvenile manchild" ... and, alas, it is true, he was on the receiving end of a vituperation which involved me calling him a juvenile manchild ... because he repeatedly treated and talked about women I know like they were sex objects... and when I started to talk to him about the emotional dimensions of man-woman relationships, he just tuned out and tried to turn back the conversation to f*cking.

 

 

 

Sorry, Neal and Ryan, you lose your right to the "be polite" and the "be open minded" counter-arguments, when the very thing that conjured my wrath was narrow mindedness, lack of empathy, uneducated scorn, or just plain old sexism.

 

And I just have to say I don't think I have anger issues in general. My co-workers been joking I must be on Valium all the time, I'm so calm and collected. So at the very least, I get conflicting feedback.

 

I also don't go around preaching to people about politics. I talk about it when they bring it up.

 

So what I think happened, was Neal & Ryan ganging up to tone police me, because they must know to some extent that they are wrong.

 

 

Tone argument - Geek Feminism Wiki - Wikia

 

 

We're alright with Neal, but I might have to cut out Ryan from my life.

[preraph]

Given your examples, I have to say your friends are probably the bigger problem. It may be that you have outgrown them. It may be that they bring out the worst in you these days and that getting new friends would give you a whole new approach. Of course, that's easier said than done.