I am being held accountable for another's racist remarks

[TineeTam]

I work in a company that is somewhat diverse. Mostly white or Asian, but from all over the globe. Americans, Brits, Scots, Aussies, Nigerian, Indonesia, and several other countries. There are a few black Americans.

 

I’m white. My husband is white. I sit next to a black woman. We get along great. Lots in common. We were at lunch last week with other friends from work, and some of their SOs. After we got back my husband, another co-worker (also black) and her (and I) were in the parking lot talking. Politics came up. (yeah, I know)

 

“President Rice” was mentioned. The other co-worker said she would vote for her. Why, asked my husband “because she’s black” was the first part of her answer, the second part because she is a republican too.

 

This brought about a rather aggressive response from the other black woman. She is so violently liberal that she became agitated and argumentative.

 

I tried to back off and tell my husband not to get involved and to just go, but she kept pulling my husband into the fray by directing questions from him and demanding answers. My husband is a softie sometimes and gets dragged into things. He thinks it is rude to not answer questions and can’t get out of situations. He’s a salesman’s favorite target.

 

Well, the whole thing turned into a shouting match and both of them got so angry that steam was coming out of their ears!

 

Name calling ensued. She called my husband some nasty names and he called her some nasty names too.

 

I was mortified and I finally just walked away when no one would listen to me, so did the other woman who was there, but I know she heard my husband and his racial comments.

 

Racism exists – even those who claim to be so superiorly educated that they are not racist will have some racist tendencies. Fighting and arguing can, and does, make people say things to deliberately hurt someone else---even if they don’t believe them, they say them to hurt someone else. (the kid who says I Hate You to their parents syndrome)

 

At work this week the woman next to me refuses to have anything to do with me. She has told others that I am a foul racist because of what my husband said. So far almost no one will listen to my side of the story – she started the name calling first and why is it so much less serious for her to call my husband white-trash ignorant bastard and keep shouting that he’s not ‘mighty whitey’ than it is for him to call her a stupid nigger bitch?

 

I’m being shunned at work and there is only one or two people, white people, who will speak to me, or realizes that I do not control my husband—or anyone else. I was told by one who is speaking to me that others think I should seek an immediate divorce. WTF! I’m not going to divorce over this – it’s stupid. My husband is a wonderful man.

 

The company picnic is coming up and there are whispers of a boycott if my husband and I show up.

 

The ignorance of the people here to treat me this way, when I walked away from the argument and was not part of the argument is astounding. But I have a feeling it’s not as rare as I would hope.

 

My boss is black. He barely speaks to me, except to give me some work. I asked him if he wanted to talk about the argument between TWO OTHER PEOPLE last week and why I was being held accountable and being treated so poorly and he wouldn’t even acknowledge my question. I can tell he’s pissed.

 

I asked my husband if he would consider apologizing and he said “not unless she does” and of course, she walks away or turns her back or picks up her phone any time I try to say anything to her.

 

Most of the office is on her side. It’s so stupid and childish, but its taken so seriously. Even the other black woman—who is of the same political view as my husband and was agreeing with him, and him with her, prior to this is now turned away from me.

 

I just want to slap some sense in everyone! I can’t keep working like this, but I will not quit and if they fire me I’ll be off to a lawyer. I have written down everything that was said and I can to sneak on to some computers at lunch and find any emails that might have gone back and forth, and I know there have been because I’ve heard them whispering. If it keeps up I may go to a lawyer anyway – this is horrible and its not my fault!

 

Why is it OK to call a white person derogatory names about the color of their skin, but its not OK to say the same thing about other races, most specifically black?

[FolderWife]

That is one lousy situation.

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by TineeTam

 

 

 

 

At work this week the woman next to me refuses to have anything to do with me. She has told others that I am a foul racist because of what my husband said. So far almost no one will listen to my side of the story – she started the name calling first and why is it so much less serious for her to call my husband white-trash ignorant bastard and keep shouting that he’s not ‘mighty whitey’ than it is for him to call her a stupid nigger bitch?

 

this is exactly the kind of thing that makes my blood boil. it isn't less serious. some people seem to think it's okay to cry racism when their feelings are hurt, then turn around and be just as racist. and apparently, she started it, so i don't know what she expected. if she had said "your shoes are ugly" he may have said "your shirt is ugly." one insult works off of the other. she should have known better. if she sued him for racist remarks, she might win, if he sued her, they would laugh in his face. it's crap.

 

 

 

My boss is black. He barely speaks to me, except to give me some work. I asked him if he wanted to talk about the argument between TWO OTHER PEOPLE last week and why I was being held accountable and being treated so poorly and he wouldn’t even acknowledge my question. I can tell he’s pissed.

 

well if he was such an authoritative kind of person (which usually bosses are) he would either distribute a memo or have a meeting with all of the employees saying he is hearing all kinds of rumours going around, and that people need to put their opinions aside and keep it out of the workplace. it isn't his business, and this is very poor character. what a loser. he needs to grow up. and if it comes going, it can be considered harassment.

 

 

Most of the office is on her side. It’s so stupid and childish, but its taken so seriously. Even the other black woman—who is of the same political view as my husband and was agreeing with him, and him with her, prior to this is now turned away from me.

 

what a sheep. big surprise. she was probably branded a "traitor to her race" for being on the side of reason.

 

 

Why is it OK to call a white person derogatory names about the color of their skin, but its not OK to say the same thing about other races, most specifically black?

 

it's not okay. i started a post about this just the other day that you might want to look at.

 

hopefully, i am neither, but i would honestly rather be called a racist than a hypocrite. then at least there's some honesty to myself involved.

[liono]

This doesn't matter but I'm Black. Well its not okay for anybody to call a person of another race a derogatory name. And you have have done all you can do to clear your name. If you came to me, like it seems you did in this situation,to try to smooth things over I probably would understand. I think the problem is the people associate you and your husband as one so its hard to separate his comments from you. But it doesn't give her the right to blast you. Maybe your husband needs open up about his feelings toward other races. Is this like a one time explosion or has he had other times where you've seen this before. The lady that called him names probably needs some anger management classes and some diversity training. Here's a story.

 

I went to Auburn University in Alabama and my friend had a conversation where this white guy he worked with said something my friend didn't like. I don't know what was said it was most likely racist in tone. They had to deal with each other everyday. They talked about it not necessarily agreeing but they got along well after it.

 

This might not happen for you but just keep an open mind and remember everybody is different no matter their race.

[brashgal]

Have you apologized for your husband's remarks? Although you have stated that you don't agree with your husband's views, I did not read that you have apologized. Sometimes a little contrition goes a long way and you are sorry that they resorted to name calling.

[opaleye]

Also being called 'white .....' is not seen as as offensive as being called 'nigger bitch'. Nigger is a very offensive historically loaded word and one which should always be avoided. It's different than saying 'black bitch' because it has so much emotive pull to it. Plus saying 'nigger' is more than 'black' because it is not just a statement of colour but it is putting a sort of value judgement on it it is taking it to another level. It is a very disgusting thing to say. Even when provoked. I do think that the situation sucks and that everyone involved should have acted more mature and apologised but you also have to remember that white people don't have the history of being discriminated against for their race- black people do. White people (esp white males) are the ones who historically and generally have the power so it is far more offensive in my opinion for a white man to call a black woman a 'stupid nigger bitch' than for a black woman to call a white man 'white-trash or mighty-whitey'. Granted the woman had no right to call him those things and should apologise- she started it and is half to blame however your husband caused great offense too. Both parties were rascist and should be held responsible.

[RecordProducer]

TineeTam, no one wants to listen to you, because you're not right and you think you are. Unless you admit the facts, no one will forgive you.

Your husband's arguments were attacking the black race. It wasn't personal for him. However it was very personal for your black co-worker. She was fighting for herself, for what she is, and will always be. If you can't comprehend that then you will never find any support from your co-workers.

Your husband is not a wonderful person, he is a racist. Matter of fact she could sue him and win the case for what he told her. When the law fights against spreading racial intolerance and discrimination, they mean WHITE PEOPLE HATE BLACKS and not vice versa.

Why does your husband hate the blacks? Is there any good reason to hate a whole race, a few hundred million people only because of their color?

The reason why your co-workers have turned your back on you is not only because you let your husband insult your co-worker on the worst basis, but because you're on his side and pretend that nothing bad happened. You tried to calm him down when he was fighting with her, but you should have told him in front of her that he was wrong, that you didn't want to listen to his crap and offend your friend on a racial basis. You should have protected your co-worker. Since you didn't, it's being considered that you share his opinion (and you probably do).

If he were such a wonderful person, he wouldn't have ruined your relationship with everyone in the company, including your boss, and therefore jeopardize your job position and career in the future. One mistake and you're out of the company. Thanks to your wonderful husband.

The black woman was also your friend who he insulted. So he has no respect for your friends either.

You will either have to admit that your husband is a freaking racist and let everyone know that you disagree with him and hate it about him or stay on his side and stop complaining about the way they treat you now.

Dr. Condoleezza Rice may or may not be a good politician, but if she is not a good one then the reason is certainly NOT because she is black!

[Craig]

WTF! Rice is black and a republican AND it's just the truth that a lot of Black's would vote for her just because she is Black. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with saying that? Here in California the Hispanics vote for other Hispanics and have no problem saying that they are voting for a candidate because they are Hispanic. Why should it be different for Blacks?

 

Another thing TineeTam did your husband mean anything negative by his initial remark? If I read him right he probably would like to see a Black woman as president and didn't mean anything negative by it.

 

TineeTam you didn't do anything wrong here and you should hold your head up high. Take action now, go to your boss and demand to speak to him about this BS. Go to the company picnic, too bad if the others boycott the company picnic because you might show up! AND GO TO A LAWYER ASAP.

 

By the way I am a white male that can not stand any form of racism, have friends of many races and I have become verbally aggressive to perfect strangers that have made derogatory racial comments to other strangers. There ain't no racism allowed around this white boy.

[amerikajin]

TineeTam,

 

A lot of things went wrong here, but not necessarily all of them were your fault. I guess you learned the hard way you've got to be very careful about political discussions when you're around your co-workers, especially if race gets involved.

 

Your husband, first of all, should have kept his mouth shut. He didn't know any of the people you work with, but he got engaged in a discussion that always has the potential to spiral out of control, and it did exactly that. He had the right to express his opinions, but it wasn't necessarily the wisest thing to do. It's better to save face and keep your real beliefs to yourself than it is to show your ass and win an argument. I mean, even if you win the argument, what have you really won in the end if you lose all of your friends and peers???

 

As for the co-worker, she was definitely in the wrong, even before your husband, though to be honest, I suspect we're missing some of the context here. You didn't really go into detail as to what was said, how it was said, and to whom it was said. You gave a summary.

 

But back on track, yeah, she was definitely in the wrong, and having grown up in the Deep South I've always been bothered by the occasional double standard that seemingly exists in race relations in this generation. I certainly don't want to generalize, but based on my own experiences, if a black person calls me a white devil, it seems like it's only a partial insult, but if I respond by calling someone a "nigger", then it's on. Maybe I'd have to be black to understand - I admit that much. It would probably be better explained by someone who is black.

 

I know that blacks really have gotten a raw deal, and sometimes the frustration just boils over. Historically, America's been very cruel to black people, with the exception of the occasional athlete or entertainer. There's a lot of anger underneath. I have been in some situations where you could cut the tension with a knife. I just kept my mouth shut, which is what you and your husband should do the next time you find yourself in that situation.

 

At this point, I don't know what you can do. The first place to start is just to say "I'm sorry for what happened. I don't know how the discussion got so heated, I didn't mean for it to go down that way, but it did, and I'm sorry." If she and others can't accept that, you'll just have to accept it and live with it. You're not going to win anyone over but sticking to your guns on this one. This is a situation which warrants compromise, a meeting of the hearts and minds.

[amerikajin]

Your husband is not a wonderful person, he is a racist. Matter of fact she could sue him and win the case for what he told her. When the law fights against spreading racial intolerance and discrimination, they mean WHITE PEOPLE HATE BLACKS and not vice versa.

 

No offense, but considering you're from Europe, do you even know the law in the U.S.? Doubt it. She could not sue her husband for anything - he has the legal right to say it, even if it's not the wisest thing to say.

 

Why does your husband hate the blacks? Is there any good reason to hate a whole race, a few hundred million people only because of their color?

 

He called her a "nigger bitch" after she had called him white trash and personally insulted him, and according to the poster, this was after she nagged him about some political issues. Again, her husband wasn't exactly acting like the brightest bulb in the room, but assuming the context is accurate, it's perfectly understandable why he reacted the way he did. If a black person insults me racially, I'm free to do the same in return as long as I can live with the consequences of my actions.

 

The reason why your co-workers have turned your back on you is not only because you let your husband insult your co-worker on the worst basis, but because you're on his side and pretend that nothing bad happened. You tried to calm him down when he was fighting with her, but you should have told him in front of her that he was wrong, that you didn't want to listen to his crap and offend your friend on a racial basis. You should have protected your co-worker. Since you didn't, it's being considered that you share his opinion (and you probably do).

 

Oh God, shut up. You've obviously never been married. What does anyone rational think she's going to do in that situation????

 

If he were such a wonderful person, he wouldn't have ruined your relationship with everyone in the company, including your boss, and therefore jeopardize your job position and career in the future. One mistake and you're out of the company. Thanks to your wonderful husband.

 

And if you were worth a damn you wouldn't be denigrating someone's husband, especially since you have taken the entire issue out of its context, gotten your facts f*cked, and given your opinions based on your on erroneous conjecture.

 

Dr. Condoleezza Rice may or may not be a good politician, but if she is not a good one then the reason is certainly NOT because she is black!

 

Read the post again, moron.

[amerikajin]

I just want to slap some sense in everyone! I can’t keep working like this, but I will not quit and if they fire me I’ll be off to a lawyer. I have written down everything that was said and I can to sneak on to some computers at lunch and find any emails that might have gone back and forth, and I know there have been because I’ve heard them whispering. If it keeps up I may go to a lawyer anyway – this is horrible and its not my fault!

 

NO! Do NOT do this. Most office networks keep back-up files, and in the event of a lawsuit, a lawyer can, and will, subpoena those backup files as evidence. If your lawyer is good he can probably send someone there to ensure that files aren't destroyed, or at least interview different witnesses to see if unusual file activities have commenced since the filing of the suit (i.e. file purgation). However, if you're caught snooping into someone else's e-mail account, that may be cause to fire you - you'd have absolutely no cause for fighting in cort. That might depend on your office's e-mail policy, but don't take that chance.

 

Just keep working as you are and consult an attorney now to advise him of the situation. Your chances of fighting and winning a discrimination lawsuit in this case is not good, as you are the wrong race. However, you might be able to file some other kind of lawsuit - harassment, hostile work environment, etc. Consult a lawyer to find out what your rights are.

 

In the meantime, patch this s*** up quickly. That's the best advice I can give you. I would ask a third party who is friends with you and with the other lady (and the co-worker) to see if she can't set up a meeting with you three. And tell them beforehand that if that goes well, you'll get your husband to apologize (assuming the hostile lady is willing to do the same). And if your husband is worth a flip, he'll do it - period.

 

If everything goes well, I think the rest will take care of itself. Go to the source first. Your boss won't respect you if you're coming to him before her; he'll just assume you're being sycophantic. If you can't get this to happen, THEN talk to your boss. Go to him as a last resort. Tell him that you are sorry for what transpired, that you don't necessarily accept all the blame for what happened but that you accept your share of it unequivocally, and that you tried to patch things up afterward. Reiterate that you are NOT a racist, and that while you'd like people to believe that you're not going to go to extremes to prove it. You are what you are, a human who isn't perfect. If he can't accept that, f_ck him.

[RecordProducer]

I see that you have very nice manners, Mr. Moron. Given that calling women names is what you consider nice, from your mouth it sounds like a compliment.

 

I am raising my sons to not make any difference between people basing on their color. Hopefully they will be able to recognize the difference between people like and smart ones.

 

I assume that TineeTam, who wanted some moral support on this forum, will not appreciate the fact that a rude person like you took her side. She will most likely consider it a lost point.

[amerikajin]

I am raising my sons to not make any difference between people basing on their color. Hopefully they will be able to recognize the difference between people like and smart ones.

 

Oh no you don't. You're not going to just slink off with the aire of nobility. You got your facts f*cked and I called you on it. You took a completely one-sided approach, calling her husband a racist while ignoring the precipitating discussion leading up to his outburst. You misread the entire post, which resulted in some faulty conclusions on your part. The least you could do is apologize to TineeTam.

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

I see that you have very nice manners, Mr. Moron. Given that calling women names is what you consider nice, from your mouth it sounds like a compliment.

 

I am raising my sons to not make any difference between people basing on their color. Hopefully they will be able to recognize the difference between people like and smart ones.

 

I assume that TineeTam, who wanted some moral support on this forum, will not appreciate the fact that a rude person like you took her side. She will most likely consider it a lost point.

 

 

the black woman brought race into it first. she should have kept her effing mouth shut.

 

if you are raising your sons to not "make any difference between people based on their colour" you would not say things like "white people hate the blacks." some people don't hate any race, until that race starts saying things like that. then whose fault is it? not the white guy. you wouldn't say it's okay to look down on the white race, but not the black one, because YOU think it's not insulting. it is insulting.

 

acting like a human instead of some pathetic a*sshole with a chip on his/her shoulder makes the world a much better, more tolerable place.

 

if her white husband is a racist, then so is the black woman.

and you are a hypocrite.

[RecordProducer]

GirlDown, you wrote "you would not say things like "white people hate the blacks." some people don't hate any race, until that race starts saying things like that. then whose fault is it?"

 

I didn't say white people hate blacks, I said the law wants to stop discrimination of blacks, because they are the victims. I didn't expect that some people will read it literally without getting the point or should I say, pretending to not get the point. Like we don't know who discriminates whom!

 

Secondly, what you wrote proves that you are a racist too. If that particular black woman insulted Tinee's husband, why do you think he (or all white people) should start hating the whole race? If a white American male insults you, will you start hating white American males?

 

I see this problem as something between Tinee's co-worker and Tinee's husband. But you obviously see it as a war between two races. Whose fault is it? It doesn't matter how it started, what matters is how it ended!

 

You obviously hate me now cuz you think I am black, but I am white - so you may freely love me!

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

GirlDown, you wrote "you would not say things like "white people hate the blacks." some people don't hate any race, until that race starts saying things like that. then whose fault is it?"

 

I didn't say white people hate blacks, I said the law wants to stop discrimination of blacks, because they are the victims. I didn't expect that some people will read it literally without getting the point or should I say, pretending to not get the point. Like we don't know who discriminates whom!

 

Secondly, what you wrote proves that you are a racist too. If that particular black woman insulted Tinee's husband, why do you think he (or all white people) should start hating the whole race? If a white American male insults you, will you start hating white American males?

 

I see this problem as something between Tinee's co-worker and Tinee's husband. But you obviously see it as a war between two races. Whose fault is it? It doesn't matter how it started, what matters is how it ended!

 

You obviously hate me now cuz you think I am black, but I am white - so you may freely love me!

 

actually i'm not a racist, but i don't care if you think i am. what i said proves nothing, you don't know anything about me, my beliefs, or what i feel about anything, and indicating this ridiculousness shows it.

 

i also don't care what colour you are, i never indicated what i assumed you were. if it seems like i don't like you, it's because you are a hypocrite.

 

also, no one said the husband started "hating the whole race." he insulted HER. if you are insinuating that calling her a "nigger bitch" is hating the whole race, then calling someone "white trash" is also a racial insult, not just a personal one. saying "like we don't know who discriminates whom" is a blanket statement that reeks of stereotype.

 

wanting equality between races is not being a racist. it's actually the opposite, if you could take your head out of your a*ss and see it that way for a moment.

 

and once again, like i said before, i would be rather be branded a racist than a hypocrite, because at least there's honesty involved.

 

call me what you will, i am unlikely to take offense to anything else you say, seeing as it's all shyt.

 

i can hardly take the word of a hypocrite seriously.

 

have a good evening.

[amerikajin]

if you are insinuating that calling her a "nigger bitch" is hating the whole race, then calling someone "white trash" is also a racial insult, not just a personal one. saying "like we don't know who discriminates whom" is a blanket statement that reeks of stereotype.

 

Exactly.

 

Look, there's no debating the fact that her husband did something very stupid by having this discussion in the first place, and it was an even worse decision to invest enough emotion into the discussion to the point where he got into a tit for tat over racial politics.

 

But while one can suspect he's racist, his insult, at least in the context of that situation, does not necessarily prove he's a racist. It just means that he was pissed off, couldn't get a grip, and he used what he knew would be the one thing that would piss her off the most. I'm not saying he's not a racist - he could be. But based on what we know at this point, you can't make that conclusion.

 

Let me give you an example.

 

I live in Japan. I'm a minority here and sometimes get the s*** end of the stick as do black people in the U.S. I've had people call the police and report me because I was visiting a friend of mine late at night and they didn't know who I was. I've been cursed at, shouted at and a lot of other stuff while I've been here. A time or two, I've gotten pissed to the point where I might mutter something along the lines of "slant eyed f*cker" underneath my breath. That doesn't mean I'm racist, it just means that I'm pissed off and in the heat of the moment, I'm reacting to what is racial hostility on the other end. My girlfriend is Japanese, and I've dated and befriended both Japanese and Chinese. It depends on the context in which the remark is made.

 

All of this sidebar discussion's irrelevant. It should never have come to this, and the bottom line is that feelings have been hurt on all sides. TineeTam had better do whatever she can to clean up this mess, and that means she and her husband will probably have to swallow some pride. At the same time, the other people involved should also swallow their pride as well. There's fault on all sides. Find a mediator, get it done.

[RecordProducer]

I don't see how you came to the conclusion that I am a hypocrite. I assume that you divide white people into two groups:

 

1. honest racists (those who admit they hate blacks) and

2. hypocrites (those who say they don't hate blacks).

 

So by your classification, I must be a hypocrite.

[amerikajin]

This doesn't matter but I'm Black.

 

No, it most definitely does matter. You're probably the person most qualified on this board to have an opinion.

[Craig]

Hypocrite

 

n. a person who pretends to be what she or he is not; who pretends to be better than she or he is, or to be pious, virtuous, etc. without really being so. -- Webster

[RecordProducer]

GirlDown, when you realize that people are not either evil or hypocrites (there are other options as well), this world will seem like a much better place to you. Next thing you will tell me that Hitler was at least honest which is better than being a hypocrite.

Tolerance doesn't mean you LOVE everyone who is different from you. It means you TOLERATE the difference.

Using expressions like "stupid nigger bitch" speaks of a very low class regardless of what he does for a living. Politeness is something you get from your family and should be steady at any moment. No matter what people say to us, there is no reason for us to be like them or what we are not. Especially if you say that SHE is a racist (could be, but everyone in the company is on HER side, not his) then by doing what she did and going even further, he showed that he was a racist (too).

[RecordProducer]

Amerikajin, I agree on your last post ...Tinee needs to clean the mess by swallowing her pride.

The other side may not agree to swallow anything, but it's Tinee that needs to bend over and say "I am sorry" or she will live with the hate.

No matter what the black woman said (she only said she would vote for Rice cuz she's black), Tinee's husband had no right to start a hostile race talk, because she was his wife's friend and co-worker.

I would be very reluctant to tell my BF's friend that his political view is incorrect in my opinion, because I love my BF. Insulting a woman is a terrible thing in general and in Europe it's unthinkable. But in the US women have all rights and I like that. I wish it were like that here too.

Anyway, I want to repeat once again: it's not the same to attack someone you don't like and to defend yourself when someone who doesn't like your race attacks you. For the black woman it was very personal. For Mr. Tinee not.

TineeTam is in the middle of it, but she thinks her husband is a wonderful person after him saying "stupid nigger bitch" to her co-worker. If he is not a racist then he is definitely not a wonderful person. So what if she called him "mighty-whitey" and "white trash"? Does that mean he should insult her back? As I said it doesn't matter how it starts, but how it ends.

[amerikajin]

Amerikajin, I agree on your last post ...Tinee needs to clean the mess by swallowing her pride.

The other side may not agree to swallow anything, but it's Tinee that needs to bend over and say "I am sorry" or she will live with the hate. No matter what the black woman said (she only said she would vote for Rice cuz she's black), Tinee's husband had no right to start a hostile race talk, because she was his wife's friend and co-worker.

 

But that's not how it happened. It was the black women who started the discussion on race, the first one being the black co-worker who said She'd vote for Rice because she was black and a Republican - it wasn't her husband who said that. And then it was the more left-wing co-worker who kept badgering him and, according to TineeTam, it was she - not her husband - who fired the first racial epithet, which was directed at her husband.

 

Agreed, the smart thing for her husband would have been to say "Hey, you know what, that's why I don't have these kinds of discussions. I'm outta here," and left it at that. I think her husband's completely wrong, but not necessarily for the same reasons you do. You're focussed on the race; I just think that he's an ass for putting his wife in this position. And yes, you're right, even if it wasn't he who escalated the tension, he was equally wrong for responding in kind.

 

Now, assuming that the situation was/is as TineeTam has described, I think it's terribly unfair that TineeTam gets all the blame for her husband's calling her a "nigger bitch" when clearly there's a co-worker who's clearly every bit as much in the wrong as he is, and in fact, her co-worker is even more to blame for this mess than TineeTam is. Again, that's assuming that all of the pertinent facts have been presented to us. If not, well, then TineeTam might want to tell us what else happened.

 

Anyway, I want to repeat once again: it's not the same to attack someone you don't like and to defend yourself when someone who doesn't like your race attacks you. For the black woman it was very personal. For Mr. Tinee not.

 

And once again, I think you're not fully understanding what took place (or maybe you are remarkably prescient and you know that TineeTam has more facts to disclose to us reading this thread which would change the equation a bit). I'm operating on what she's told us so far, and what she's told us so far is that it was the black woman who started using terms like "white trash" and "mighty whitey".

 

Some might say that's not offensive because white people have all the power, and I say that's absolute bulls***. That kind of vindictive mentality, thinking that years of vengeance and tilting the tables is going to somehow overturn the years of hurt in the past, is terribly misguided. That way of thinking won't bring back to life those who have been lynched; it won't unshackle dead slaves; it won't erase the bitterness of people who remember their churches firebombed or being told to sit in the back of the bus. It'll only lock blacks and whites and other minorities in a perpetual feud. Blacks who yell epithets at whites are just as wrong as when whites do it to blacks.

 

TineeTam is in the middle of it, but she thinks her husband is a wonderful person after him saying "stupid nigger bitch" to her co-worker. If he is not a racist then he is definitely not a wonderful person. So what if she called him "mighty-whitey" and "white trash"? Does that mean he should insult her back? As I said it doesn't matter how it starts, but how it ends.

 

So if someone went up to your boyfriend and called him a pig, you'd just expect him to remain perfectly calm and turn the other cheek? You mean you wouldn't understand it if he was tempted to yell something equally offensive back at him? He's human. He has emotions. Emotions aren't always so easily controlled. And you know something? Even wonderful people sometimes make big mistakes. You can still yell insults at people in a fit of rage and still be a wonderful person on the whole. Everybody has their moments of imperfection.

 

Nothing I said should be construed as a "defense" of her husband. Quite the contrary, I think he's being obstinate and self-righteous, and he's hurting his wife in the process. But I don't necessarily think TineeTam should get a divorce from this guy just because he blew his fuse once, nor does this mean he's necessarily a bad guy.

[Dino]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Amerikajin, I agree on your last post ...Tinee needs to clean the mess by swallowing her pride.

The other side may not agree to swallow anything, but it's Tinee that needs to bend over and say "I am sorry" or she will live with the hate.

Actually, it is her husband AND the black co-worker that both need to "bend over and say 'I am sorry'". Technically, Tinee doesn't have to say anything, although that might not be the best decision. She has been associated with her husband's actions and therefore must now also join in his apology.

 

Originally posted by RecordProducer

No matter what the black woman said (she only said she would vote for Rice cuz she's black), Tinee's husband had no right to start a hostile race talk, because she was his wife's friend and co-worker.

You haven't been paying attention, so listen now. It was the black co-worker who started the "hostile race talk", not Tinee's husband. This double-standards sh*t really pushes my buttons. Neither of them should have said what they did, but I promise you that if I would happen to get into a heated argument with someone of a different race, and they insulted me racially, I would throw it right back at them. That does not mean that I am racist towards them, it means that they pissed me off with a comment, therefore I'm going to respond in kind. This is exactly what her husband did. He did not attack the entire black race. She attacked and offended him, so he responded in the same manner she did which he knew would invoke a strong emotional response. Now if he would have said his comment first, then perhaps I would agree with you, but he did not.

 

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Anyway, I want to repeat once again: it's not the same to attack someone you don't like and to defend yourself when someone who doesn't like your race attacks you.

You're getting confused again; you have that a bit backwards. I agree with this statement, although in a way you didn't intend. I submit that the black co-worker is the one with more racial tendencies. She was much worse in attacking him racially then it was for him to defend himself, and I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same. That may not be my smartest choice either, but if you're willing to toss me some sh*t, you'd better be able to handle it when I throw it back. Don't be so damn sensitive.

 

Originally posted by RecordProducer

For the black woman it was very personal. For Mr. Tinee not.

You're quite wrong, again. It was just as personal with Tinee's husband as it was for the black woman, hence the reason why he responded in the manner he did. I'd be willing to bet that if she would have never made her racial comment, neither would he.

 

Originally posted by RecordProducer

TineeTam is in the middle of it, but she thinks her husband is a wonderful person after him saying "stupid nigger bitch" to her co-worker. If he is not a racist then he is definitely not a wonderful person.

This doesn't change who he is in the slightest. He was defending himself, pure and simple. If this situation had happened with my girlfriend in place of Tinee's husband, I would be proud of her for standing up for herself. Bully's suck, you can't let people walk all over you. The black co-worker was indeed a hypocrite. Basically she thought it was perfectly fine for her to insult him based on his race, but it was a travesty that he did the same in return. That, my unenlightened friend, is the definition of hypocrisy.

 

Originally posted by RecordProducer

So what if she called him "mighty-whitey" and "white trash"? Does that mean he should insult her back?

This may be a matter of opinion, but in my view, I say yes. He was absolutely within his "right" to insult her back. Let me say this again so you can understand: He didn't start it. She attacked him and he defended himself. You're throwing your race-mongering in the wrong direction

[tokyo]

Originally posted by opaleye

Also being called 'white .....' is not seen as as offensive as being called 'nigger bitch'. Nigger is a very offensive historically loaded word and one which should always be avoided. It's different than saying 'black bitch' because it has so much emotive pull to it. Plus saying 'nigger' is more than 'black' because it is not just a statement of colour but it is putting a sort of value judgement on it it is taking it to another level. It is a very disgusting thing to say. Even when provoked. I do think that the situation sucks and that everyone involved should have acted more mature and apologised but you also have to remember that white people don't have the history of being discriminated against for their race- black people do. White people (esp white males) are the ones who historically and generally have the power so it is far more offensive in my opinion for a white man to call a black woman a 'stupid nigger bitch' than for a black woman to call a white man 'white-trash or mighty-whitey'. Granted the woman had no right to call him those things and should apologise- she started it and is half to blame however your husband caused great offense too. Both parties were rascist and should be held responsible.

 

I can only agree to this.