My chosen path - academia?

[Els]

Some of you guys may recall a few indecisive posts that I made here, about what career to pursue. I took a degree in pharmacy upon my parents' persuasion - and discovered, after starting clinicals 3 years in, that it really wasn't for me. We aren't allowed to switch majors in my home country, though, so I completed the 4th year anyway, and graduated as a pharmacist.

 

After a lot of indecision with regards to my future, I finally decided on a plan. Firstly, I would be getting a graduate diploma in computer science. A GradDip is the equivalent of a second degree for first-degree holders, except that it will take 1 year instead of the standard 3-year degree. I chose computer science because it is probably the only marketable subject that I'm interested in. Pharmacy was just wrong for me in many ways - I can't handle the depression and misery of being around sick and dying patients all day, I loathe running around the wards for a fixed 8 hours a day, with on-call nights and weekends to boot, I hate that my only expertise is as a mobile drug encyclopedia that can recite bioavailabilities and doses from memory. Don't even get me started on community pharmacy - retail hours are typically longer, and community pharmacists are really only glorified salesgirls who spend more time selling diet pills and detox sets (both shams, in my professional opinion and that of other pharmacists... but it's what sells) than anything else.

 

So, my plan is to do my grad dip in CS, then Masters, then try and get a fully-funded PhD while tutoring in the meantime, and then get a position in lecturing after completion of PhD. Main reasons for wanting to do a PhD and then lecture include high autonomy, flexibility with job hours, the ability to work alone and from home, and a comfortable (although I understand not high) pay scale. These are, indeed, my major considerations in choosing a job - I don't need fame, status, a high salary, etc. However, it's a long and expensive road, especially since I understand fully-funded Masters are very rare to get.

 

So, I just wanted to see what those who have been there and done that, think about my plan. Any major glitches with it? How soon would I be able to start tutoring/lecturing? How easy is it to support oneself while doing a PhD? Are lecturing positions easy to get? What do you think about the advantages I listed of being a lecturer?

 

If the lecturing road doesn't work out, I have the backup option of freelancing as a programmer or website/graphic designer, which would still give me the flexible job hours, autonomy, and ability to work from home... but would be a very insecure source of income. If that fails, I could work as a programmer in the software industry - not ideal, but still better than a pharmacist's job, I would imagine, from speaking to my programmer friends. Both these options would be a helluva lot of wasted education though.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Elswyth

[Green]

what country are u in. Just go for your dream. You can DO IT!

[eerie_reverie]

I'm sorry, but to me it sounds like you're planning on staying in school for as long as possible because you have no idea what you want to do with your life, and you're terrified of that. I don't sense that you have any real passion for academia. That's an awfully long and expensive road to go down if you feel lukewarm about it.

[Green]

I'm sorry, but to me it sounds like you're planning on staying in school for as long as possible because you have no idea what you want to do with your life, and you're terrified of that. I don't sense that you have any real passion for academia. That's an awfully long and expensive road to go down if you feel lukewarm about it.

 

Lifes a journey. maybe she has a passion for being a student

[OceanGirl]

I am on my way to meet someone but I will write a longer post when I get back.

 

I work in acedemia and went down the masters-PhD--academic job route. (double major in maths and computer science and PhD in applied maths). Your views of academia are WAY too optimistic.

 

Can you give me your approximate age?

Have you ever done any hard-core programming over an extended period of time and if so in what programming languages?

[Els]

I actually have to run as well But a brief reply: Age is 24 now. I've done some programming in Java/C++, but not hardcore. Why do you think my views are way too optimistic?

[Eeyore79]

I did a PhD, so hopefully I can advise you a bit

 

If you don't like pharmacy, you definitely shouldn't stick with it; you'll only make yourself miserable. You should switch to something you enjoy more, so if you enjoy working with computers that could be a good route to take.

 

It should be possible to get a fully funded PhD, though it can be competitive and it might take a while to get an offer. You can teach while doing the PhD, but it's by no means guaranteed; it depends on whether your department needs additional staff with your skills, and whether they have the funds to pay you, etc. You should ask about teaching opportunities at the PhD interview.

 

The PhD itself is very autonomous, your hours are flexible, and you can work from home. But you'll get paid very little (i.e. you'll be constantly broke while your friends with proper jobs are earning good money and buying cars, houses, going out for expensive dinners, etc) and you'll end up working long hours (longer than you'd work in a job). When you're a PhD student there are no official vacation periods, no maximum amount of hours you're allowed to work - I worked weekends, holidays, evenings, etc. Also think about the fact that doing a PhD is an isolating experience - you're working alone for years on end, which is fun to begin with but quickly becomes very depressing and demotivating. Working from home is also fun for a while, but (as in my case) the social isolation can result in clinical depression.

 

Lecturing jobs also have high autonomy, and a certain amount of flexibility; you can work from home sometimes. But just because your hours are flexible doesn't mean that they won't also be excessive - you can end up working a 60 hour week for less money than you'd get in a regular 9-5 job, and you may have to work on weekends to get stuff done, or may be required to teach evening classes. My professor used to take a week's vacation just so he could stay home and catch up on some of his work without interruptions!

 

The other thing to consider is that you'll have to do research as well as teaching, so you have to find a lecturing job which also has a research department where you can fit in. This may mean that you have to move across the country, or even to another country. If you don't mind moving or even fancy living in different places, the national and international mobility can be an advantage - but for someone like me who's settled in a certain location and owns a house, I'm limited to looking for jobs at just 2-3 local schools, and none of them have advertised a suitable job in the last five years!

 

With computer science you have much more chance of finding a job in industry, which is the route I took. I work less hours for more money than I'd get in academia, I do the regular 9-5 and usually don't have to work evenings and weekends just to catch up on my workload, I don't have the bureaucracy issues to deal with, or the problems with getting research funding. Sure, I'd be able to work from home more if I was an academic, but it isn't worth the trade-off because I'd have to work a helluva lot more hours.

 

Just as a final note: I was a programmer/web designer for a while, and it bored me stupid. Every website is the same, you get sick to death of just sitting there and writing code, there's no variety and and it isn't intellectually challenging at all. So if you're thinking about that as a career option, try it out for a while before you commit to it, to make sure it isn't soul destroying like it was for me.

[Els]

Thanks for the great reply, Eeyore!

 

I did a PhD, so hopefully I can advise you a bit

 

If you don't like pharmacy, you definitely shouldn't stick with it; you'll only make yourself miserable. You should switch to something you enjoy more, so if you enjoy working with computers that could be a good route to take.

 

Yes, I agree with this. While it's sad to have wasted a very difficult degree, I feel that going further with it will only increase the misery.

 

It should be possible to get a fully funded PhD, though it can be competitive and it might take a while to get an offer. You can teach while doing the PhD, but it's by no means guaranteed; it depends on whether your department needs additional staff with your skills, and whether they have the funds to pay you, etc. You should ask about teaching opportunities at the PhD interview.

 

I suppose if it was fully funded, I would not need to teach? I eyeballled a few universities where I am now, and saw that their PhD funding was typically about $2000/month for two years. $2k/month is more than some fresh grads get after tax deduction, so I figure I'd be able to survive on it. Heck, I'm surviving on about $1000/month right about now, and I'm not even eating cereal for every meal...

 

The PhD itself is very autonomous, your hours are flexible, and you can work from home. But you'll get paid very little (i.e. you'll be constantly broke while your friends with proper jobs are earning good money and buying cars, houses, going out for expensive dinners, etc) and you'll end up working long hours (longer than you'd work in a job). When you're a PhD student there are no official vacation periods, no maximum amount of hours you're allowed to work - I worked weekends, holidays, evenings, etc. Also think about the fact that doing a PhD is an isolating experience - you're working alone for years on end, which is fun to begin with but quickly becomes very depressing and demotivating. Working from home is also fun for a while, but (as in my case) the social isolation can result in clinical depression.

 

Why did you have to work longer hours than a typical 40/hour week as a PhD? Do you think it was because of your particular supervisor/lab? I know people doing PhDs who have a lot of time for relaxation... Maybe it's just a question of picking the right one? I'm not sure how you know before you get into it though...

 

I don't plan to work at home all the time, but I imagined I'd be able to work from home sometimes when I feel like it, and go to the office a few days a week to catch up on stuff/attend meetings/etc.

 

Lecturing jobs also have high autonomy, and a certain amount of flexibility; you can work from home sometimes. But just because your hours are flexible doesn't mean that they won't also be excessive - you can end up working a 60 hour week for less money than you'd get in a regular 9-5 job, and you may have to work on weekends to get stuff done, or may be required to teach evening classes. My professor used to take a week's vacation just so he could stay home and catch up on some of his work without interruptions!

 

Again, would that depend on the type of position taken? I recall someone here (forgot her name, darn) who told me that she works as a part-time lecturer, about 4-6 hours a day, and gets enough pay to sustain a modest lifestyle. That's really all I want.

 

The other thing to consider is that you'll have to do research as well as teaching, so you have to find a lecturing job which also has a research department where you can fit in. This may mean that you have to move across the country, or even to another country. If you don't mind moving or even fancy living in different places, the national and international mobility can be an advantage - but for someone like me who's settled in a certain location and owns a house, I'm limited to looking for jobs at just 2-3 local schools, and none of them have advertised a suitable job in the last five years!

 

Oh, yes, I planned to ask about this: Why the necessity to do research as well all the time? Is it really necessary to even hold a lecturing job, or only necessary for career advancement? If this were true, it is actually quite worrying for me. I love travel, but I definitely don't want to have to move every few years or so. What are you doing in the meantime without a job offer for 5 years, if you don't mind me asking?

 

With computer science you have much more chance of finding a job in industry, which is the route I took. I work less hours for more money than I'd get in academia, I do the regular 9-5 and usually don't have to work evenings and weekends just to catch up on my workload, I don't have the bureaucracy issues to deal with, or the problems with getting research funding. Sure, I'd be able to work from home more if I was an academic, but it isn't worth the trade-off because I'd have to work a helluva lot more hours.

 

Just as a final note: I was a programmer/web designer for a while, and it bored me stupid. Every website is the same, you get sick to death of just sitting there and writing code, there's no variety and and it isn't intellectually challenging at all. So if you're thinking about that as a career option, try it out for a while before you commit to it, to make sure it isn't soul destroying like it was for me.

 

Yes, I was worried about this. Which is why I've aimed for academia first, and programming for the industry second. I would hope that academia affords more varied and intellectually-challenging prospects than industry. I think this problem will be faced by anyone in most industries, though, not just CS - engineers, accountants, doctors, etc... Eventually everything will be the same, won't it?

 

I thought CS would be a step up because I'd have the option to freelance. And I can survive on very, very little income quite happily, so I figure I wouldn't need to put in so many hours as a freelancer. Then maybe it would be less repetitive and boring.

[sweetjasmine]

My responses are based on my experiences in the US, and things often work differently in other countries, so, keep that in mind.

 

I suppose if it was fully funded, I would not need to teach?

 

Funding varies significantly from place to place, from program to program. You're often required to teach, whether as part of your program requirements or as a way of getting enough money to pay the bills. We have people in our program who have been around for 10 years because funding runs out after 5, and they had to take on a heavy teaching load to survive, leaving little time for dissertating.

 

Why did you have to work longer hours than a typical 40/hour week as a PhD?

 

Because it's not an hourly job - it's based on the amount of work you have, and if you're working on something that requires twice as much work as you were expecting, you have to do it anyway because it still needs to be done by X date.

 

Again, would that depend on the type of position taken? I recall someone here (forgot her name, darn) who told me that she works as a part-time lecturer, about 4-6 hours a day, and gets enough pay to sustain a modest lifestyle. That's really all I want.

 

These days, in the US, lecturer positions pay jack sh-t, and lecturers carry the department. They do the bulk of the work along with graduate students because they're cheap labor, and there are dozens of desperate unemployed PhDs willing to replace anyone who can't handle it anymore.

 

In my department, the latest hire is a lecturer with an outstanding resume, a long list of experience, and a significant, original dissertation (instead of those annoying nit-picky ones that don't contribute anything). They're having him teach 9 courses per year. At my old institution, Mr. Tenured Professor of 20 Years complained about teaching 1 course per year.

 

Oh, yes, I planned to ask about this: Why the necessity to do research as well all the time? Is it really necessary to even hold a lecturing job, or only necessary for career advancement?

 

In the US, it's very much publish or perish, and you can't publish without research. Universities here absolutely love their grant money and prestige, so it's expected that people publish, even lecturers. I can think of maybe two people I've met in lecturer positions who didn't publish much, but they were the ones who were on short term contracts that were renewed frequently and they were the ones who were scared they'd lose their job next time they were up for review.

 

If this were true, it is actually quite worrying for me. I love travel, but I definitely don't want to have to move every few years or so.

 

Here, you absolutely have to be willing to move if you want a chance at getting a job. Openings are hard to come by these days, especially with recent hiring freezes, and actual tenure-track positions are much rarer than they used to be. If you take a lecturer position, your contract is usually up in 5 or 6 years, and then most of the time, you have to find some place else to go. And in some institutions, tenure is very hard to get, so even if you land a tenure-track position, you're not safe until you actually get the committee's approval after about 5 years.

[that girl]

If you haven't even done a degree in comp sci, I don't see how you can know you would want to do a PhD in it.

 

Funded programs are always competitive, would you be happy with the career options a simple comp sci degree would give you?

 

I think your view of academia is pretty out of touch. Comp sci degrees have industry options, but academia is different than you seem to think.

 

Why the necessity to do research as well all the time? Is it really necessary to even hold a lecturing job, or only necessary for career advancement?

Professors are all expected to research and publish. Teaching is generally considered seconday. If you don't love research, don't get a PhD.

 

I recall someone here (forgot her name, darn) who told me that she works as a part-time lecturer, about 4-6 hours a day, and gets enough pay to sustain a modest lifestyle. That's really all I want.

 

That kind of schedule often pays only $12,000/yr (US). People with those types of jobs either have a high earning spouse, have a lucrative consulting business on the side, are phasing out of the workforce or are desperately looking for a full time job.

 

Academic jobs are often hard to come by and often times people have to move to places they would not have chosen.

 

And what country do you live in? The use of lecturer is making me think it isn't the US or Canada, but I'm not sure.

[eerie_reverie]

Hate to be harsh, but it sounds like your dream is not to do anything.

 

Have you considered a corporate job? IMO, working in an office is not too different from working in The Office, if you watch that show.

 

Longer hours than you appear to be looking for (though many employers are pretty flexible nowadays and you may be able to find somthing part-time) but half the day can be spent fcvking around. Browsing the net, eating breakfast three times, cracking jokes during meetings, taking coffee breaks, etc.

 

If you are ambitious you do have to work hard to move up, but if you're not,you can spend your whole life just showing up to chill and doing the minimum. It's like high school.

[Els]

Thanks for the input, guys.

 

That_girl and sweetjasmine: I'm in NZ and plan to do it in either NZ or Aussie. You both are from USA, yes? I've heard horror stories from people doing PhDs in USA, yes, but not so much from other countries. Perhaps I should be trying to suss out the opinions of people in NZ instead? Since from what both of you are saying, it seems there could be great variation between the countries. Figure I could get an advisor to talk to me about it once I start my graduate diploma?

 

Also, I don't mean to brag, but when it comes to intellectually-taxing tasks, I typically spend far less time doing them than the average person. When in optimal conditions during peak times (which are typically only achieved in the quiet comfort of my room at 1am), I can focus very, very intensively on something and complete it in half the time I (and most others) would have spent in a fixed schedule at the office. During the research part of my Honors degree, my friends all spent entire days in the lab and library. I dedicated maybe 4-5 hours a day to intensive research at home (typically from 1am-5am, my peak times), popped in to the lab when I needed to only, and to attend meetings with the supervisor. I received the highest score for the thesis, by far. I was hoping that this strength would be of significant benefit to me in academia.

 

Spookie: Hardly. My dream is to enjoy life the way I want to. Which is to not be stuck in a fixed 9-5 job. I would rather live off $1000 a month and work few hours a day, with plenty of time to relax and pursue my hobbies and enjoy myself, than $10,000 a month and work 10 hours a day. Also, having to be in the office for fixed hours but not doing anything is worse than actually having to do something and be able to choose when I do it at home, be it 2am or 2pm, to me. I hate fixed hours more than anything, and I preferred the times I spent the entire day at home cramming for finals to the times I was forced to sit in the hospitals from 8-6, even though there was nothing to do in the hospitals.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Elswyth

[Eeyore79]

I suppose if it was fully funded, I would not need to teach?

Sweetjasmine is right; your funding may not be a huge amount so you might need extra money, and sometimes your department will require you to teach as part of your program. I would recommend teaching as much as you can anyway - if you want to get a job as a lecturer you'll need to demonstrate significant teaching experience.

 

Why did you have to work longer hours than a typical 40/hour week as a PhD?

Again, Sweetjasmine is right; you have a deadline when stuff needs to be finished by, so you have to work all hours to meet that deadline. Sometimes you might have a relaxing week, and other times you might be working right through the night to meet a deadline. The workload of a PhD plus a teaching job can be immense - I had to work weekends to catch up on PhD work because I'd been busy teaching all week.

 

I don't plan to work at home all the time, but I imagined I'd be able to work from home sometimes when I feel like it, and go to the office a few days a week to catch up on stuff/attend meetings/etc.

Indeed you can do this, unless your supervisor is one of those who insists that you must be on campus for a set number of hours (many supervisors do this so they know their students are working). The problem is, you're officially required to be available 9-5 on weekdays, so if someone needs to see you and you're not around because you sloped off home early, the s**t can really hit the fan. Typically what happens is that you have a class at 9am and a meeting at 3pm or something, so you end up having to hang around all day. Also don't under-estimate how isolating it can be when you're home alone all day and don't see anyone; it can be very depressing, and very difficult to motivate yourself when nobody is keeping tabs on you.

 

AI recall someone here (forgot her name, darn) who told me that she works as a part-time lecturer, about 4-6 hours a day, and gets enough pay to sustain a modest lifestyle.

You could probably make a couple of hundred dollars a week as a part-time lecturer, but you'd only get paid during the semester when you were actually teaching, not during holidays. Plus you'd have no job security, no paid vacations, etc.

 

Why the necessity to do research as well all the time? Is it really necessary to even hold a lecturing job, or only necessary for career advancement?

If you're a part-time lecturer, you can simply teach a few hours and do nothing else. But as I said before, you'd have no job security and would only get paid during the semester. If you had a proper permanent lecturing job, you would absolutely be required to do research and publish papers. The reputation of the university rests on the research it does; research brings in grant money and students, and how do you expect to be able to teach current subjects if you're not at the cutting edge of research in your field? You would probably do 50% teaching and 50% research, and getting it all done takes a lot more than 40 hours a week - every lecturer I know is overworked. Plus you shouldn't think that teaching is just classroom time - you also have to do annoying things like sitting on boards, grading hundreds of papers, and filling out piles of boring administrative paperwork.

 

I love travel, but I definitely don't want to have to move every few years or so.

Most people will find a university they like and just stay there forever. Most of the crusty old professors have been there for decades. You might end up stuck in a certain job and being unable to advance though - if you're not prepared to move then you could spend decades waiting for the professor in your department to croak it so you can have his job.

 

What are you doing in the meantime without a job offer for 5 years, if you don't mind me asking?

I have a research job in a private company. What I was trying to explain is that in any particular location there might only be one or two universities which might not be advertising any jobs at present, so you either have to a)Move elsewhere to look for an academic job, or b)Take a non-academic job and wait to see if any local universities will eventually have an opening for a lecturer. I've waited five years and none of my local universities have had an opening for a lecturer in my field, so I've had no choice but to take a job in industry.

 

I would hope that academia affords more varied and intellectually-challenging prospects than industry.

You will actually get more varied prospects in industry, particularly if you want to do research. Academia is mostly about teaching whatever the university tells you to teach, filling out paperwork, and doing whatever research you can obtain funding for. The research funding in industry is much better and there are a wider range of jobs/projects to choose from.

[sweetjasmine]

That_girl and sweetjasmine: I'm in NZ and plan to do it in either NZ or Aussie.

 

That's what I thought. Yeah, you should definitely talk to people and ask around to find out what things are like where you are. An adviser might be able to help you, but I recommend talking to actual graduate students in your prospective field, if you can.

 

The problem I had was that in undergrad, I had professors encouraging me about grad school without being totally honest with me. They didn't lie to me, but they sure didn't describe the reality of the situation I'd be putting myself into. None of them said a word about the job market in academia or anything like that. The graduate students I knew and the ones I met at the school I eventually chose were more honest with me and were open about their concerns, but they also hesitated in pointing out the negative aspects of graduate school. I should've poked harder and dug more but I didn't. After jumping in and really getting to know everyone, I realized that they're very disgruntled, but it's always a little awkward to share that with new people. Plus, who wants to be responsible for scaring away the prospective student when the department is trying to attract people?

 

So in other words, talk to people - a lot of people, but understand that you might have to read between the lines because it's unprofessional and awkward for people to be negative about their job, department, program, and academia in general.

 

Also, I don't mean to brag, but when it comes to intellectually-taxing tasks, I typically spend far less time doing them than the average person.

 

Well, me, too, and I got through my MA by cramming almost every assignment in at the last minute because I couldn't motivate myself to work on things, since I was so miserable about being in graduate school.

 

But I had it easy. If you take ordinary PhD work and add in teaching, there really is no way to get it done quicker than everyone else, most of the time. You can only grade and prepare lessons so quickly.

 

Heh, not to mention conferences and publishing, if/when you have to do that.

 

I was hoping that this strength would be of significant benefit to me in academia.

 

It definitely is. It helps a lot to be able to do that. But the workload can be unpredictable, and sometimes it really does pile up.

[that girl]

in NZ and plan to do it in either NZ or Aussie. You both are from USA, yes? I've heard horror stories from people doing PhDs in USA, yes, but not so much from other countries. Perhaps I should be trying to suss out the opinions of people in NZ instead? Since from what both of you are saying, it seems there could be great variation between the countries. Figure I could get an advisor to talk to me about it once I start my graduate diploma?

I think there is varation between countries and because the US has so many solid programs they attract a lot of international students, making them more competitive.

 

But I know people who have done PhDs in several countries (though not NZ) and I haven't heard any of them describe the easy job path you're describing.

 

Also, I don't mean to brag, but when it comes to intellectually-taxing tasks, I typically spend far less time doing them than the average person. When in optimal conditions during peak times (which are typically only achieved in the quiet comfort of my room at 1am), I can focus very, very intensively on something and complete it in half the time I (and most others) would have spent in a fixed schedule at the office. During the research part of my Honors degree, my friends all spent entire days in the lab and library. I dedicated maybe 4-5 hours a day to intensive research at home (typically from 1am-5am, my peak times), popped in to the lab when I needed to only, and to attend meetings with the supervisor. I received the highest score for the thesis, by far. I was hoping that this strength would be of significant benefit to me in academia.

To get into a PhD program you generally have to be unusually bright.

[Els]

Thanks a bunch for the replies! You guys are total gems

 

I think what I will do is try and talk to graduate students in my field, as suggested. However, time is running out for me to make a decision with regard to what field to do my graduate diploma in. To be fair, I do have doubts about whether computer science would be the right field for me. But I'm the overanalytical type, so I have doubts about everything. I have thought about this almost every day for the past 3 months or so since I completed undergrad, and have not arrived at any other valid decisions.

 

Re: the computer science industry, I have spoken to quite a few people who are working as programmers/server maintenance/etc, although I understand that is a very small part of CS. I do agree that I might find programming boring if I did the same ol' thing everyday. But then I ask myself - what industry wouldn't be?

 

What would working in a private research lab entail?

 

Back to academia: What sort of teaching positions would one be able to secure with only a Masters instead of a PhD?

[Ariadne]

I'm sorry, but to me it sounds like you're planning on staying in school for as long as possible because you have no idea what you want to do with your life, and you're terrified of that. I don't sense that you have any real passion for academia. That's an awfully long and expensive road to go down if you feel lukewarm about it.

 

+1,000

 

I was a programmer/web designer for a while, and it bored me stupid. Every website is the same, you get sick to death of just sitting there and writing code, there's no variety and and it isn't intellectually challenging at all. So if you're thinking about that as a career option, try it out for a while before you commit to it, to make sure it isn't soul destroying like it was for me.

 

+1,000

 

I'm also a CS major and I can't stand it.

[Els]

Uh, Ariadne, aren't you a SAHM who feels that women's true place is in the home, and who's never done graduate studies?

 

I'm very sorry, but I would very much prefer relevant advice. Thanks for taking the time to reply though.

[Ariadne]

Uh, Ariadne, aren't you a SAHM who feels that women's true place is in the home, and who's never done graduate studies?

 

I'm very sorry, but I would very much prefer relevant advice. Thanks for taking the time to reply though.

 

Yes, I'm a SAHM thank God (for now anyway) because it's much better than being a programmer.

 

Oh, the joy!

[sweetjasmine]

Back to academia: What sort of teaching positions would one be able to secure with only a Masters instead of a PhD?

 

I would ask people about this because it might vary.

 

Here, realistically, in higher education, you can only really get a teaching job at a community college with a Masters. It's rare for universities/colleges to hire candidates who only have their Masters for lecturer positions. I only know of one person with a Masters who's teaching as part of the faculty of a department, but she's an odd case and has had the job for years. Her work is limited, and she'll never be able to advance beyond a lecturer position. She could easily be replaced by a PhD.

 

It used to be that the openings universities only required that candidates by ABD (all-but-dissertation) and working on getting their dissertation done and approved, but these days, almost everyone wants to see degree in hand when you apply. A little bit of credentials inflation, there.

[Els]

I would ask people about this because it might vary.

 

Here, realistically, in higher education, you can only really get a teaching job at a community college with a Masters. It's rare for universities/colleges to hire candidates who only have their Masters for lecturer positions. I only know of one person with a Masters who's teaching as part of the faculty of a department, but she's an odd case and has had the job for years. Her work is limited, and she'll never be able to advance beyond a lecturer position. She could easily be replaced by a PhD.

 

It used to be that the openings universities only required that candidates by ABD (all-but-dissertation) and working on getting their dissertation done and approved, but these days, almost everyone wants to see degree in hand when you apply. A little bit of credentials inflation, there.

 

I see, thanks. Some of you guys have mentioned teaching while doing a PhD though; Eeyore mentioned that it would be better to do so, so as to get some teaching experience under my belt to apply for lectureship after PhD? How does that happen then?

[sb129]

Yes, I'm a SAHM thank God (for now anyway) because it's much better than being a programmer.

 

Oh, the joy!

 

A, your son is what, 20?

 

Thats not reaaaallllly being a SAHM now, is it?

 

Elswyth have you really written pharmacy off completely?

 

What about working for a drug company in research or sales?

 

My cousins husband works for GSK and he is paid really well, and gets to work all over the world.

[Els]

Sb: Yes, unfortunately I have. I did think about going into research so I would not need to do clinicals (hate sales). However, the majority of pharmacology-related research involves wet-lab research. You would spend the majority of your time conducting chemical/animal-based research in a lab, repeating the same procedure over and over (titrating, mass spec, ELISA etc) to get results. I cannot stand wet-lab research.

 

I understand that pharmacology research can be done in other ways as well, but it is raaaare. I did a research project in my honors year, involving the use of software to model new drug molecules and optimize them to obtain their theoretical efficacy. Spent most of my time on the computer for that, and loved it. But it is raaaaaaaare. Not much point advancing in a field where I would be limiting myself to a very small aspect of it because I hate the rest of it.

 

So I figured, why not cut my losses and go for something which is more appealing as a whole?

[sb129]

Fair enough.

 

COuld you stand it for sometime to make some $ you could then invest in something else later on down the line?

 

Lots of people dislike their day jobs- its just what we do to fund the rest of our lives.

[Els]

Thing is, if I could make nearly the same doing a different job that I would most likely enjoy more, why not? The only cost here is an additional 1/1.5 year of study, to obtain the graduate diploma in CS (because my degree is in pharmacy). From then on, it's the same.

 

By the way, the few people that I've managed to speak to so far in NZ about graduate programs mention a 35-40 hour week typically (including time working at home). I've mainly spoken to them online though; I don't personally know anyone who's doing a postgrad here, and I've no idea how to meet them if I'm not going to uni just yet.