Keto Q&A...(and general nutrion info)

[Calutaxi484]

Since I mentioned it and most people don't know what I'm talking about, I figured I'd make this thread explaining a little bit about it. Please don't chime in about how it's unhealthy (because it's not and you're misinformed). This is also going to be as simple as possible for most people to understand.

 

What is Keto?

Keto is short for Ketosis, it's a metabolic state.

 

How your metabolism works.

 

Most people now function off of a primarily carbohydrate metabolism. Ingested carbs are broken down into usable sugars (primarily glucose)by the body. A rise in blood glucose levels stimulate Insulin release. Insulin is a fat storage hormone. Generally all the glucose you don't immediately need is stored as fat. Insulin however decreased fat mobility. If there's sugar present your body doesn't need to use stored fat.

 

Ketosis is a completely different form of metabolism. Fats not carbs, are the primary fuel being used in ketosis. Fats used are both dietary fats and stored body fat. Products of fat metabolism are FFAs and ketones ( hence why it's called ketosis). Glucagon is the primary hormone present during ketosis. Glucagon increases fat mobility, which means your body more readily uses stored body fats.

 

Glucagon and Insulin are antagonistic. Their functions are basically completely opposite.

 

Don't we need carbs to live?

Yes, but not nearly as many as you think. The brain needs a certain amount of glucose everyday. The brain however adapts in the presense of ketones and uses them as energy, thus decreasing the required daily glucose need. Many organs actually PREFER ketones to glucose. In the absense of dietary carbs, the body converts protein to carbs to satisfy the brain's minimal need. All other organs will use ketones instead.

 

What's the deal with calories?

Think of calories as fuel for your body.

It's pretty simple:

If you take in more calories then you need, then you gain weight.

If you take in less calories then you need, you'll lose weight.

If the amount of calories you take in is equal to the amount you need, you'll stay the same.

 

How do diets work?

All diets work on the premise of creating a calorie deficit (taking in fewer calories then you need on a daily basis). Exercising works in the same fashion. Running for 30 minutes creates about a 300 calorie deficit, which is the same as eating 300 calories less. A pound of fat is equal to roughly 3500 calories. That means creating a deficit of 500 calories per day, you will lose 1 pound of fat per week.

 

Exercise disclaimer

Exercise is useful in MANY other ways besides simply creating a calorie deficit. For the intent of this I'm discussing it in purely dietary terms. I definitely advocate exercising, but it's not necessary for weight loss.

 

Common Misconception

You CANNOT only lose fat while losing weight. Weight loss is a combonation of fat loss, fluid loss, and lean tissue loss (muscle, connective tissue,etc). Likewise it's impossible to only gain muscle (without gaining fat).

 

Why is keto better?

Keto is better for fat loss because while in ketosis your body more readily uses stored body fats. While on a primarily carb based diet your body will use lean tissue for gluconeogenesis (creating glucose) more then it will in ketosis. So while you're going to lose muscle mass on either type of diet, you're going to lose LESS on keto. Basically the ratio of stored body fat v. lean tissue is skewed more towards fat loss in ketosis.

 

How do I do it?

Keto is extremely simple, but requires a little bit of learning. An ideal macronutrient composition in ketosis is 5/30/65. That means 5% of your calories should be from carbs, 30% from protein, and 65% from fat.

 

Things you'll need when starting out

You're going to need a food scale. These run about 20 bucks at walmart.

 

You're also going to want a food diary of some sort. I prefer myfitnesspal, it's free and allows you to enter your own stuff (as well as having a database of previously entered foods).

 

You're going to want to figure out your weight loss goals. 2% total body mass loss (per week) is about the standard for long term weight loss. That means if you weigh 200lbs, you can safely lose 4lbs that first week.

 

You're also going to have to figure out your BMR (basal metabolic rate) which is how many calories you need per day. This varies by sex,age,height, and weight. There's plenty of calculators out there on the net that'll give you a good ballpark. You could also just multiply your body weight by 10-13 to give you a general estimate.

 

Ketone test sticks are available at almost any pharmacy. With ketosis you're either in or out. The amount of ketones present is irrelevant.

 

Other Things about Keto

Ketos are a diuretic, that means they'll make you pee more. Ketones are excreted in the urine and saliva primarily. You can also sometimes have a fruity taste, and smell to your breath. This is usually pretty normal.

 

The first week

Keto adaption is pretty much hell, luckily however it's temporary. Your body's metabolism is switching over to something it's not used to. Personally I had an awful headache, and sever insomnia. This cleared up once my body became adapted, and you only have to do this once (as long as you stay in keto).

 

Other perks?

Well keto is often used to treat childhood epileptics. If you have seizures you should consult with your doctor before trying this, but there's the chance it can reduce seizure occurance.

Blood glucose levels are more stable on keto. Normally blood sugar levels will spike and dip while eating a carb based diet. Keto blood glucose levels often don't change at all throughout the day, they're also a bit lower then what's considered "normal".

Apetite supression on keto is another great perk. Due to the protien and fat content of the food you're eatting, you're going to feel full longer. Also the increased water intake (you're going to constatly be thirsty because you're going to peeing a lot more) helps to alleviate hunger.

[Calutaxi484]

Reserved for later

[Art_Critic]

JMO...

If you are talking about The Ketogenic Diet.

Unless you have epilepsy I wouldn't recommend trying The Ketogenic Diet.

Since it is Medical Nutrition Therapy doing something like this without say a dietitian could mess with you more than help.

Here is something I found thru Google about a pitfall..

 

The ketogenic diet is not a balanced diet and only contains tiny portions of fresh fruit and vegetables, fortified cereals and calcium-rich foods. In particular, the B vitamins, calcium and vitamin D must be artificially supplemented.

 

A modified Akins diet might be something that people could grab a hold of better.

[tman666]

While I disagree that ketogenic diets are superior for fat loss/muscle retention overall, you're write up is based on basic, mostly solid nutritional principles that people would be well to do to understand.

 

For preserving muscle while losing fat, training cannot be discounted. Without the proper stimulus, the body tends to catabolize muscle quickly in a caloric deficit. Training with heavy weights is crucial during cutting if muscle retention is a priority. Muscle retention also helps keep one's metabolism running faster, which benefits fat loss.

 

As far as ketosis goes, there are studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19820013) showing that the satiety differences between carbohydrates and fats is pretty much a wash (carbs being better in the short term, fats being better in the long term). Saying the ketogenic diets provide greater satiety is unfounded, as far as I am aware (I'd be happy to see some evidence otherwise).

 

I have done both ketogenic and higher carb diets, and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'll tell you this, however: for me personally, I've found that the best diet for getting lean/retaining (and even building, depending on caloric intake) muscle is through carb cycling (moderate fat/high protein days alternated with high carb/high protein days). By focusing my highest carb days on training days, I'm not only taking advantage of the GOOD things that insulin does for you, anabolically speaking, but also mobilizing stored fat (on low carb days) and avoiding building insulin resistance. It also allows you to work in carbs throughout the week in a way that you don't have to explain to everyone you're going out to dinner with why you're ordering chicken and broccoli. I feel that figuring out a diet that meshes with your goals AND social life is highly important for long term sustainability.

[Calutaxi484]

JMO...

If you are talking about The Ketogenic Diet.

Unless you have epilepsy I wouldn't recommend trying The Ketogenic Diet.

Since it is Medical Nutrition Therapy doing something like this without say a dietitian could mess with you more than help.

Here is something I found thru Google about a pitfall..

 

Keto isn't just a medical diet. It's used quite frequently by bodybuilders. Atkins IS a ketogenic diet, the primary difference being Atkins doesn't consider caloric intake. Yes I actually wanted to address the vitamin thing, but hadn't gotten to it before class. It is pretty much necessary to take a multivitamin while on a ketogenic diet.

 

 

Tman, that study you linked was for prepubescent children. Those children also lack many hormones that are present in adults, primarily large quantities of HGH and Testosterone. Both of those hormones have a pretty large impact on insulin and glucagon, so can't be discounted. All the specific hormone interactions is pretty well beyond the scope of this.

 

From a purely physiological standpoint blood glucose levels are more normalized while in ketosis. Dips in serum blood glucose lead to hunger, since there's no dips or spikes while in keto that definitely helps to suppress appetite. While on keto compared to a standard deficit diet I've literally had to force feed myself to hit my intake. I was always quite hungry on a -500c/day deficit on a standard carb based. Either way I just treated it as a "perk" the real benefit comes from fat loss and the muscle sparring effect.

 

I agree, I do an SKD (standard) diet and do heavy compound lifts 3x a week. I purposely excluded the exercise component here, because I more or less wrote this guide as a beginners nutrition type thing. Doing a CKD(cyclical) or TKD(targeted) is useful for energy needs if you're doing intense workouts/cardio. From a pure fat loss standpoint CKD isn't quite as effective because you're out of keto 3ish days a week (again I'm writing this for a total nutrition newbie that doesn't workout).

 

For someone that doesn't know anything about dieting carb loading or cycling would probably be a little too complicated. While I do advocate keto, I also understand it's not the only way to go. I think it's a great easy place for someone to start. But you're right once a person gets more serious they're going to want to custom tailor their diet to workout/lifestyle needs.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Calutaxi484

[tman666]

Keto isn't just a medical diet. It's used quite frequently by bodybuilders. Atkins IS a ketogenic diet, the primary difference being Atkins doesn't consider caloric intake. Yes I actually wanted to address the vitamin thing, but hadn't gotten to it before class. It is pretty much necessary to take a multivitamin while on a ketogenic diet.

 

 

Tman, that study you linked was for prepubescent children. Those children also lack many hormones that are present in adults, primarily large quantities of HGH and Testosterone. Both of those hormones have a pretty large impact on insulin and glucagon, so can't be discounted. All the specific hormone interactions is pretty well beyond the scope of this.

 

From a purely physiological standpoint blood glucose levels are more normalized while in ketosis. Dips in serum blood glucose lead to hunger, since there's no dips or spikes while in keto that definitely helps to suppress appetite. While on keto compared to a standard deficit diet I've literally had to force feed myself to hit my intake. I was always quite hungry on a -500c/day deficit on a standard carb based. Either way I just treated it as a "perk" the real benefit comes from fat loss and the muscle sparring effect.

 

I agree, I do an SKD (standard) diet and do heavy compound lifts 3x a week. I purposely excluded the exercise component here, because I more or less wrote this guide as a beginners nutrition type thing. Doing a CKD(cyclical) or TKD(targeted) is useful for energy needs if you're doing intense workouts/cardio. From a pure fat loss standpoint CKD isn't quite as effective because you're out of keto 3ish days a week (again I'm writing this for a total nutrition newbie that doesn't workout).

 

For someone that doesn't know anything about dieting carb loading or cycling would probably be a little too complicated. While I do advocate keto, I also understand it's not the only way to go. I think it's a great easy place for someone to start. But you're right once a person gets more serious they're going to want to custom tailor their diet to workout/lifestyle needs.

 

Ah thanks for the clarification. I agree with you on all counts.

 

As far as the study that I linked to goes, I dug that up from Martin Berkhan's site (Leangains.com) as it's one of the studies he sites as evidence to support the notion that, from a satiety standpoint, fats and carbs are equal. I do agree that since the subjects were small children, that the results may not be directly applicable to adults, so that's my bad (AND I wonder what the great Martin Berkhan would have to say about it). Looks like I've fallen victim to what I've said a lot to others: "correlation does not equal causation". That's what I get for simply regurgitating info. I obviously need to look into it further.

 

Speaking from personal experience (i.e. anecdotal evidence), I find that when I'm on a keto diet that I tend to over consume calories. Satiety isn't a big problem (due to the high fat content), but it's so easy for me (since I love most fats) to go waayyy overboard consuming calories. As such, I've had much better results (in terms of getting lean) by using a targeted carb cycling approach, which is similar (the same?) as the CKD or TKD style of dieting you mentioned. As far as muscle retention, I've had better success with this approach. Another piece of information that I'd like to include is that I had bilateral knee inflammation for about a year and a half, all the while I was using a keto diet (with some exceptions, of course). When I switched to a targeted higher carb approach coupled with LeanGains intermittent fasting, my knees cleared up within a couple of weeks.

 

Again, the above paragraph are merely my personal observations. As you said, there are many ways to go about it, and it tends to be highly individual. There are many well built bodybuilders that use keto diets in various forms. As for myself, perhaps I'm not disciplined enough to make it work for me. I think the important thing, as you mentioned, is having a solid enough grasp on nutrition to make your diet work for your goals and lifestyle.

Edited September 20, 2011 by tman666

[tman666]

After re-reading the abstract of the results of the study I posted earlier, I'd also like to point out that it seems to suggest that high protein/high fat/low carb diets may be most effective (in terms of satiety) for overweight people. The obese children in the study "reported higher hunger and lower satiety after the high-carbohydrate meal compared to the NW [normal weight] subjects, whereas appetite ratings were similar between the groups after the high-protein and high-fat meals".

 

To me, this could suggest that an overweight person would benefit more from a keto diet than a "normal weight" person or someone with lower bodyfat. While the study doesn't talk about any real conclusions from this ("the patterns of secretion of ghrelin and PYY in our study of prepubertal children suggest that they may play a role in the effectiveness of high-protein/low-carbohydrate diets in promoting weight loss." - no ****, Sherlock), it highlights how the differences (in terms of Grehlin production and insulin resistance) between overweight and normal weight people should be taken into account when optimizing diet. Obese people tend to be much more insulin resistant. High carbohydrate diets (or even targeted carbohydrate diets) may be much less effective in terms of weight loss for a highly insulin resistant person.

[Calutaxi484]

After re-reading the abstract of the results of the study I posted earlier, I'd also like to point out that it seems to suggest that high protein/high fat/low carb diets may be most effective (in terms of satiety) for overweight people. The obese children in the study "reported higher hunger and lower satiety after the high-carbohydrate meal compared to the NW [normal weight] subjects, whereas appetite ratings were similar between the groups after the high-protein and high-fat meals".

 

To me, this could suggest that an overweight person would benefit more from a keto diet than a "normal weight" person or someone with lower bodyfat. While the study doesn't talk about any real conclusions from this ("the patterns of secretion of ghrelin and PYY in our study of prepubertal children suggest that they may play a role in the effectiveness of high-protein/low-carbohydrate diets in promoting weight loss." - no ****, Sherlock), it highlights how the differences (in terms of Grehlin production and insulin resistance) between overweight and normal weight people should be taken into account when optimizing diet. Obese people tend to be much more insulin resistant. High carbohydrate diets (or even targeted carbohydrate diets) may be much less effective in terms of weight loss for a highly insulin resistant person.

 

There's a great video I watched by the guy that made the documentary "fathead". I can't for the life of me remember what it's called right now, but he talks a bit about that. More or less it's something like simply being overweight leads to gaining more weight. Due to insulin resistance people eventually need to eat more, and it turns into a cycle of sorts.

 

With my intent to write this for people who don't know much about dieting/nutrition, i'm also asuming that they're going to be overweight to some degree.

 

Generally the 3 types of keto came from Lyle McDonald afaik. He's pretty much one of the best sources of info on this type of diet out there.

 

SKD ( Standard Ketogenic Diet)- This is the approach I take. Just a straight 5/30/65 for as long as you want to stay on the diet. Some people have energy problems while working out. My workout is basically a powerlifting routine I do heavy lifts, low reps. Most of the stuff i do is 5x3.

Depleted glycogen is pretty normal here, so it's best for people that either don't work out or do my kind of workout.

 

TKD ( Targetted Ketogenic Diet)- People use this to get some additional workout energy. Basically you take in carbs pre (and maybe post) workout, but basically still stay in ketosis the rest of the time. Preworkout carbs refeed glycogen for the workout.

 

CKD ( Cyclical Keto Diet) - People that do more intense workouts usually go with this. You follow a standard keto diet M-F, on the weekends you do carb loads. Basically I think you switch your carb and fat percantages on the weekend. This helps to do glycogen refeeds, and there's glycogen ( I think it's called supercompensation) basically the muscles absorb more glycogen then normal. However a lot of people on CKD generally say their friday workouts are awful, due to redepleted glycogen stores.

With CKD the person is kind of in and out of keto all the time. The main tradeoff is glycogen levels for time in keto.

[Calutaxi484]

Ah thanks for the clarification. I agree with you on all counts.

 

As far as the study that I linked to goes, I dug that up from Martin Berkhan's site (Leangains.com) as it's one of the studies he sites as evidence to support the notion that, from a satiety standpoint, fats and carbs are equal. I do agree that since the subjects were small children, that the results may not be directly applicable to adults, so that's my bad (AND I wonder what the great Martin Berkhan would have to say about it). Looks like I've fallen victim to what I've said a lot to others: "correlation does not equal causation". That's what I get for simply regurgitating info. I obviously need to look into it further.

 

Speaking from personal experience (i.e. anecdotal evidence), I find that when I'm on a keto diet that I tend to over consume calories. Satiety isn't a big problem (due to the high fat content), but it's so easy for me (since I love most fats) to go waayyy overboard consuming calories. As such, I've had much better results (in terms of getting lean) by using a targeted carb cycling approach, which is similar (the same?) as the CKD or TKD style of dieting you mentioned. As far as muscle retention, I've had better success with this approach. Another piece of information that I'd like to include is that I had bilateral knee inflammation for about a year and a half, all the while I was using a keto diet (with some exceptions, of course). When I switched to a targeted higher carb approach coupled with LeanGains intermittent fasting, my knees cleared up within a couple of weeks.

 

Again, the above paragraph are merely my personal observations. As you said, there are many ways to go about it, and it tends to be highly individual. There are many well built bodybuilders that use keto diets in various forms. As for myself, perhaps I'm not disciplined enough to make it work for me. I think the important thing, as you mentioned, is having a solid enough grasp on nutrition to make your diet work for your goals and lifestyle.

 

I will actually have to go check about the immune response while in keto. I'm pretty sure it wasn't immunosupressive, but I'll double check. I've never had any injuries while on it so I can't comment.

 

More or less why I came out of keto was I just wanted a change for a while. I've continued to cut weight even while off keto, but it hasn't been nearly as much. Basically it was summer I had a few weddings to go to, and just wanted more food variety. My last stint on keto I went from 223 to about 200, at 223 i was at 32% BF. I haven't retaped myself in a while but I figure I'm probably in the 17-20%BF range now. Right now I'm at 195, my year end goal is 170-175 ( and that'll put me at about 10% BF). My last estimate for lean body mass was 160, so that's what i use for my protein (1g per lb of lean body mass) intake.

[tman666]

Lyle McDonald definitely knows his stuff. I've read quite a bit of Alan Aragon's material, but I still need to pick up a copy of Lyle's book.

 

Congrats on your body recomp. efforts; it sounds like you have figured out what works for you. I also use more of a "powerlifting" template as well (somewhat modified 5/3/1) for all purposes now (fat loss, strength gain, and hypertrophy), as I have been for the last couple of years. It's just so easily modifiable towards all the goals I've encountered so far that I haven't had reason to do anything else. What I've learned from 5/3/1 is the importance of finding a method that works for you and sticking with it. I admit I used to be somewhat of a "program hopper" in my early years, and it sapped my progress. Sticking to the basics (lift heavy, condition, eat enough protein, lather, rinse, repeat for years and years) has served me better by leaps and bounds.

 

If you don't mind me asking, how did your lifts fare during your recomp? Strategically timing my carb intake has been literally the best thing for me with regards to maintaining and increasing my lifts while minimizing body fat gain and/or lowering body fat (depending on overall caloric intake). I'm just trying to get a sense of how doing a standard keto diet with no carb refeeds compares to cycling carbs or even having weekly carb refeeds such as in CKD.

 

Many ways to skin this cat! Good to see another nutrition/training geek on here!

[Calutaxi484]

Honestly I had good strength gains while on Keto. Basically I'd taken some time off of both lifting and dieting. I restarted my routine about a week after I started keto. That first week I was so messed up and miserable I couldn't lift. I couldn't really tell much of a difference while lifting between keto and a standard diet honestly.

 

I actually went and to training off a local pro powerlifter (Ryan Celli), that set me up with the routine. It's similar to starting strength if you're familiar with that.

12 weeks from start here were my lifts. I've gained in every single lift, and some much more then others ( mostly squats, bench, deads, and dips).

 

Workout A:

Squats I usually do bar warmup 10x1, 135-10x1, then my working sets 215-5x3

Flat bench bar-10x1, 135-5x2, 160-5x3

Incline dumbell 40 each 3x7

Deadlifts 135x5, 225x5, 315x5

Dips, 5x3

 

Workout B

Squats-same as above

Standing military press- barx10, 85-5x3

Bent over rows- bar 2x10, 145-5x5

Curls, bar 2x10, 55-5x3

Pullups 5x3- with nativies. Still working on getting the full 5x3. I do what I can and finish with negatives.

 

I'd say it usually took me between an hour and hour and a half to get through the workout. I also had to unrack all the weight and move the bar. I lift at home and only have 1 olympic bar.

 

Overall I had pretty good consistant strength gains, which is what I was after. I'm basically trying to preserve as much mass/strength as possible until I'm down to about 10%. Once I hit 10% i'll work on bulking. Unfortunately my gym is out of commission right now... My garage is full of tools and everything else because the house is being renovated lol.

 

I'd usually eat about an hour prior to lifting, and then I'd do a shake post workout. Occasionally I'd throw some frozen strawberrys into the blender with the shake for a little glycogen spike post workout. I also didn't use enough to put me out of keto, usually a cup or so. But none of my lifts suffered at all.

 

Edit: I've actually yet to do a real bulking phase. I know when I'm actually going for hypertophy I'll probably have to modify the diet, but for my cut it's been fantatsic.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Calutaxi484

[tman666]

Honestly I had good strength gains while on Keto. Basically I'd taken some time off of both lifting and dieting. I restarted my routine about a week after I started keto. That first week I was so messed up and miserable I couldn't lift. I couldn't really tell much of a difference while lifting between keto and a standard diet honestly.

 

I actually went and to training off a local pro powerlifter (Ryan Celli), that set me up with the routine. It's similar to starting strength if you're familiar with that.

12 weeks from start here were my lifts. I've gained in every single lift, and some much more then others ( mostly squats, bench, deads, and dips).

 

Workout A:

Squats I usually do bar warmup 10x1, 135-10x1, then my working sets 215-5x3

Flat bench bar-10x1, 135-5x2, 160-5x3

Incline dumbell 40 each 3x7

Deadlifts 135x5, 225x5, 315x5

Dips, 5x3

 

Workout B

Squats-same as above

Standing military press- barx10, 85-5x3

Bent over rows- bar 2x10, 145-5x5

Curls, bar 2x10, 55-5x3

Pullups 5x3- with nativies. Still working on getting the full 5x3. I do what I can and finish with negatives.

 

I'd say it usually took me between an hour and hour and a half to get through the workout. I also had to unrack all the weight and move the bar. I lift at home and only have 1 olympic bar.

 

Overall I had pretty good consistant strength gains, which is what I was after. I'm basically trying to preserve as much mass/strength as possible until I'm down to about 10%. Once I hit 10% i'll work on bulking. Unfortunately my gym is out of commission right now... My garage is full of tools and everything else because the house is being renovated lol.

 

I'd usually eat about an hour prior to lifting, and then I'd do a shake post workout. Occasionally I'd throw some frozen strawberrys into the blender with the shake for a little glycogen spike post workout. I also didn't use enough to put me out of keto, usually a cup or so. But none of my lifts suffered at all.

 

Edit: I've actually yet to do a real bulking phase. I know when I'm actually going for hypertophy I'll probably have to modify the diet, but for my cut it's been fantatsic.

 

That's awesome that you got a routine/advice from Ryan Celli! Most of the iron community is great when it comes to helping each other out. It's amazing how much one can learn by simply asking the shredded/big/strong guys (and girls) in the gym. I am familiar with Starting Strength, and though I've never used it myself, from what I've heard and seen, it's a great way to build a solid foundation.

 

One thing that has helped me immensely in terms of developing my deadlift (hoping to hit 500+ in the next month) and grip strength has been what is known recently as a "Kroc" row, after the powerlifter/bodybuilder Matt Kroczalesi. Basically, it's a heavy 1 arm dumbbell row done at high intensity and for as many reps as possible. For example, I'll grab a 120-130 lb dumbbell and go for at least 20 reps on each arm, perhaps for as many as 3-4 sets (on a good day; sometimes I'll be crawling away from the dumbbell rack after 2). It's simple, but it's a great way to destroy your upper back and build forearm/grip strength, which is (at least for me) a big limiting factor in the deadlift.

 

I always do carbs post workout (strawberries/bananas in the PWO shake, higher carb dinner after training days), and often pre workout (especially on days that I weight train). I also do morning fasted "cardio" in the form of a 2 mile walk with my dogs. I really feel that this has a BIG impact on me controlling my bodyfat while maximizing growth potential around training, being that it's helping me mobilize fat stores without cutting into CNS or muscular recovery.

 

I'll give you one piece of advice, even though you didn't ask for it. All this stuff we're talking about? Minutia. It's fun to know and discuss, but it's not where the rubber meets the road. At the end of the day, if you're getting enough protein and calories without going overboard, and training hard and heavy consistently over years, you'll see the results. Many guys think that if they spend more time stressing over details that they'll circumvent the YEARS it takes of blood, sweat and tears needed to realize their goals.

 

(Of course, I'm not saying you're one of those guys, but I'm just sayin')

[tman666]

Video supporting my last point:

 

Classic Wendler, haha.

[Calutaxi484]

That's awesome that you got a routine/advice from Ryan Celli! Most of the iron community is great when it comes to helping each other out. It's amazing how much one can learn by simply asking the shredded/big/strong guys (and girls) in the gym. I am familiar with Starting Strength, and though I've never used it myself, from what I've heard and seen, it's a great way to build a solid foundation.

 

One thing that has helped me immensely in terms of developing my deadlift (hoping to hit 500+ in the next month) and grip strength has been what is known recently as a "Kroc" row, after the powerlifter/bodybuilder Matt Kroczalesi. Basically, it's a heavy 1 arm dumbbell row done at high intensity and for as many reps as possible. For example, I'll grab a 120-130 lb dumbbell and go for at least 20 reps on each arm, perhaps for as many as 3-4 sets (on a good day; sometimes I'll be crawling away from the dumbbell rack after 2). It's simple, but it's a great way to destroy your upper back and build forearm/grip strength, which is (at least for me) a big limiting factor in the deadlift.

 

I always do carbs post workout (strawberries/bananas in the PWO shake, higher carb dinner after training days), and often pre workout (especially on days that I weight train). I also do morning fasted "cardio" in the form of a 2 mile walk with my dogs. I really feel that this has a BIG impact on me controlling my bodyfat while maximizing growth potential around training, being that it's helping me mobilize fat stores without cutting into CNS or muscular recovery.

 

I'll give you one piece of advice, even though you didn't ask for it. All this stuff we're talking about? Minutia. It's fun to know and discuss, but it's not where the rubber meets the road. At the end of the day, if you're getting enough protein and calories without going overboard, and training hard and heavy consistently over years, you'll see the results. Many guys think that if they spend more time stressing over details that they'll circumvent the YEARS it takes of blood, sweat and tears needed to realize their goals.

 

(Of course, I'm not saying you're one of those guys, but I'm just sayin')

 

Nice I'll actually check those rows out. One of the kind of weird things that Ryan told me was about my rows. He said not to increase the weight, but to add more reps. I'm not sure why that is, but that's why my BOR weight is like dispraportionately lower then everything else.

 

Grip strengh was a factor for my deads too. I started messing around with bar hangs and farmer walks. Farmer walks seemed to be what worked best for me.

 

I don't do much cardio admittedly. I for one can't stand running on a treadmill or whatever. I'm fine playing a game of hoops with my friends or doing HIIT sprints up at the high school football field. I kind of do that stuff whenever I get to it.

 

When I first found out about HIIT it was pretty funny. I was still going to a regular gym. I wasn't a fan of cardio then either, but I did it. I'd do 45 minutes on a treadmill or so. Then I read about HIIT and was like " hey I can get my cardio done in 15-20 minutes instead of 45, I'll give it a try". So I hopped on the eliptical and did 5 minute warmup, then did 5 intervals of 30s 100% sprint, and then 1:30 of recovery. Did 5 minutes cooldown. When I went to step off the elipital I was like all wobbley like walking like a drunk, my legs were total mush. Being completely exhausted and not able to walk is more my idea of cardio! It was such a crazy good workout, and the results were so much better then just straight up jogging for a while. I've loved HIIT ever since.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Calutaxi484