Would You Be Friends with Your Lover if They Weren't Your Lover?

[Wave Rider]

It occurred to me awhile back that in all my romantic relationships except for one, I probably wouldn't have been friends with my girlfriend if she wasn't my girlfriend. I have asked myself, "Would I be friends with this woman if I wasn't romantically attracted to her?" and the answer is most cases was no. I find this unsettling. There was certainly romantic passion between us, but if I strip away all the romance and physical stuff, then I have to be honest in saying that we weren't really close friends, and I don't think that either of us would have made the effort to spend time together if we hadn't been romantically interested in each other.

 

I asked one of my recently married male friends if he would be friends with his wife if they weren't married. To my surprise, he said they probably would not be friends if they weren't married. Apparently they don't have enough in common, other than romance and sex, to hold a friendship together. This male friend of mine has been a very supportive and loyal friend to me, so I am somewhat surprised to hear that he wouldn't have any motivation to hang out with his wife without the romantic/sexual element present between them. They just wouldn't have enough in common to be friends.

 

This worries me. But should it? In your relationships, have you been best friend with your lover, or friends but not best friends, or barely even friends at all?

 

Incidentally, I have a decent network of supportive friends. I make friends relatively easily with the caveat that all my friends have two things in common: they are all men, and they are all in science/engineering/technology fields.

[carhill]

After making the colossal mistake of being friends with people and then acting on an attraction which developed, I started to separate out women as friend/lover potentials and didn't look back. My wife eventually became a close friend too until things went south many years later but she was a lover/sexual partner first. The 'interest' wasn't built around mutual interests to start, as is typical with friendship. It was built around romance and sex and became a friendship later.

 

These days? Nope, I see women as potential lovers only. Not interested in being friends. None I know like guns, cars, fixing up houses, fishing, hunting, etc. etc. Nothing in common. I know I hate social media, something women these days seem immersed in. Irreconcilable differences

 

"Did you know NASA just landed a spacecraft on Mars this morning?" [blank stare] Yup

[greymatter]

Carhill, are you saying that you consider online forums (like LS) to not be social media? You spend enough time on LS that one could say you are as immersed in it as the women you are generalizing about. Online message forums are definitely a form of social media.

[carhill]

I'm the oldest moderator here. Of course I'm here a lot.. when I am I post to relationship topics. I don't post selfies and giggles and costumes on my dog or cat. I don't have any social media accounts anywhere. No Twitter, no Snapchat, no Instagram, no Facebook. When I see MW's and wives of male friends with their faces buried in their phones instead of visiting with company, I thank my lucky starts I'm divorced and out of all that.

[Wave Rider]

These days? Nope, I see women as potential lovers only. Not interested in being friends. None I know like guns, cars, fixing up houses, fishing, hunting, etc. etc. Nothing in common. I know I hate social media, something women these days seem immersed in. Irreconcilable differences

 

"Did you know NASA just landed a spacecraft on Mars this morning?" [blank stare] Yup

 

Exactly. This is a major problem for me if I'm hoping for female friendships that could turn into a romantic relationship, as many successful relationships do. Friendships tend to revolve around shared interests and shared hobbies, and I definitely have guy hobbies, where 90% of the people in those hobbies are men. So literally all my close friends at this point are men.

 

While I have done pretty well finding friendship and common ground with other men in my hobbies and interests, I often find myself struggling to find a sense of commonality and friendship with the women I've dated. And in my conversations with those women, it felt like we shared little in common other than our mutual romantic interest and desire for a meaningful relationship. It was like we weren't interested in the same things and we didn't want the same things, at least in terms of hobbies and interests.

 

I haven't been able to form meaningful friendships with women the way that I have been able to do with men, and I think it has a lot to do with my male-leaning hobbies and interests, though I doubt that's the whole story.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Wave Rider

[lucky-girl]

I think if you want a relationship to really last, there has to be more than sexual attraction and romantic interest because these things tend not to last many years. You don't need lots of common interests but you need some things you can enjoy doing together (apart from sex and 'dating'), you need similar values, you need to be able to talk to each other, and you need to like and respect the person as a person - like you would a friend.

This doesn't mean you have to be friends first before you date.

[Lotus_Luna]

I was friends with one of my ex’s for like a year before he moved in. I relished in how platonic we were... he was begging me to marry him a few months later. We were friends but the friendship ended with the relationship.

 

I’m currently friends with my ex AP. We were friends for yers prior to the relationship. Our affair was more of a close friendship then romance so it feels natural. Not being friends felt awful.

 

Any future relationships will have to have a strong friendship along with romantic interest. I’m not looking for my opposite, or someone to balance me out. I want someone who is similar in mind and spirit.

[basil67]

No. He's got enough friends already

[Ronni_W]

<snip>, I probably wouldn't have been friends with my girlfriend if she wasn't my girlfriend.

<snip>

This worries me. But should it?

It depends on your long-term intentions about your girlfriend, but, in general, yes, of course it should worry you. We tend to be friends with people whom we like...for whatever the reasons.

But, if that is missing -- the liking of the actual person -- then a long-term relationship is hardly likely to be sustainable through any serious 'rough patches' or major disagreements.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with a sex-only or sex-based partnership -- as long as the other person is made fully aware of your feelings.

[FMW]

I want the friendship component. I need the mental connection in order to fully connect physically. That's part of the bonding for me. I don't think I would have romantic feelings for someone I was only attracted to sexually.

 

But also, I have lots of friends and I would want any guy I was with to have other friends also. I share different activities and interests with different friends.

[Timshel]

These days? Nope, I see women as potential lovers only. Not interested in being friends. None I know like guns, cars, fixing up houses, fishing, hunting, etc. etc. Nothing in common. I know I hate social media, something women these days seem immersed in. Irreconcilable differences

 

"Did you know NASA just landed a spacecraft on Mars this morning?" [blank stare] Yup

 

 

You should move to the South, plenty of women, even very ladylike women here that would share your hobbies.

 

 

I agree about social media but it isn't only women. G and I always notice these things when we are out to dinner. Either the couple are both glued to their cell phones or (this irks me) they are not speaking to each other and eavesdropping on our conversation. shudder.

 

 

OP, my husband and I a best friends and we talk about everything. We agree on most things, compromise on some and exchange some hostility regarding a little bit. We have lot's of sex too.

 

I haven't been with a man who left me dead between my ears. Never has, never would happen. I would stay alone before I let a bubble head between my legs, lol.

 

 

 

Good luck to you in your endevours.

[d0nnivain]

I have liked all my lovers as people so yes I'd be friendly with them but honestly, especially with DH I would not be friends with him if he wasn't my BF/ DH. He's too darn sexy! It would be too difficult for me to sit there, be his friend, watch him with another woman & be denied that which I lusted after.

[Wallysbears]

I consider my husband my very closest confidant and best friend.

 

BUT that's because he is my husband and my #1 in the world.

 

If we hadn't have gotten together romantically, he would not be someone that I was friends with. We didn't share mutual interests.

 

We do NOW since we have built a life together, but we didn't back then.

[Wave Rider]

Well, hmmm. It appears that most people agree that their significant other is a good friend or a best friend. But some people think they would be friends with the SO if they wen't in a romantic relationship, and some do not.

 

I am inclined to think that I would prefer to be with someone who also naturally felt like a friend in the absence of any romantic feelings. But the trouble is that I have such stereotypically male hobbies and interests that finding genuine female friends in the course of my daily activities is very difficult.

 

Interestingly, women have the same complaint. Single women complain that there aren't enough men around and that there is a "man shortage." I can guess that these women live in female-dominated worlds, where they work as nurses and teachers, and they have stereotypically female hobbies like travelling and shopping. So their complaint is valid, and there definitely is a man shortage is that world.

 

It seems like social life is very segregated by gender: men get together and do their thing, and women get together and do their thing, and each complains that there isn't enough of the other around. This is probably responsible for the explosion in popularity of online dating, because most single people seem to live in same-gender environments where it's surprisingly difficult to meet opposite-gender people.

 

So I have a choice here. Would it be worth my time to pursue some hobbies that are more gender-neutral or that are more dominated by women, instead of sticking with my favorite hobbies which are dominated by men? That seems inauthentic to me, and not very self-actualizing. But it's clear that there is no way I am going to meet any women or find genuine female friends if I continue fill my time with my hobbies that I love and find great satisfaction and fulfillment in, but that are totally dominated by men.

[preraph]

All I know is the guys I fell for, I had a lot in common with, being kind of from the same subculture. So I was different combinations of friend and lover, and in different orders. One couldn't handle being friends after. I think there were some who honestly didn't try to sleep with me for fear of messing up the friendship, because there was attraction there and it seemed like dating at times.

[lana-banana]

Yes, absolutely. My husband and I both love baking, cooking, scotch, computer science, and puns. We also get each other on a very intuitive level, because we're both highly empathetic. It's part of why we hit it off so quickly. There are things we don't have in common---I love opera, embroidery, and military history; he is super-handy and loves taking things apart---but we also enjoy learning from each other. We recommend books to each other on different topics and send each other articles about things we might not otherwise read.

 

This is one of those areas where respect goes a long way. When we travel I make sure we always have time for battlefields and I usually run around like a nerd, saying "and HIS cavalry was over HERE", and my husband is willing to listen even if he doesn't quite get why I care so much. I try to do the same for him when he's explaining why his electrical handiwork is such an improvement. When you really love someone, you should try to at least appreciate (if not share in) their interests, because you care about the things that make them happy.

[Nilfiry]

Actually, I would not even consider someone to be a potential love interest if I were not already or could not be friends with that person first.

 

At lot of people do not realize until it happens that the sex and romance does not last forever. Those butterflies in your stomach and excitement from meeting a new love interest only lasts so long before it fizzles out. At the end of that, if you have not learned to get along as decent friends or at least have mutual appreciation for each other, you will probably end up with a very distant relationship or not one at all. It helps a lot if you started out as friends, as you have a head start in understanding each other and knowing how to communicate.

 

However, contrary to what most people are saying, you do not need anything in common with someone to be close friends with that person. All you need is mutual trust, appreciation/affection, and a bit of understanding. Common interests and ideals only serves to bring people together and and allows for an opportunity to build trust and appreciation, but by no means do friendships actually hinge on these things. Even by definition, nothing stipulates that friends need to hang out or even have common interests to be considered friends.

 

As a matter of fact, I have hardly anything in common with my closest friends, and the few things that we do have in common, we do not even talk about them, let alone do anything together. We do not even talk all that much normally (due to things like work), and yet one would not find our friendship any worse that people that call each other best friends.

 

Nevertheless, it makes no difference in the end whether you were friends before dating, keep friends and lovers separate, or become friends afterwards. The only thing that makes a difference is what you do in the time that you are together with the person.

[basil67]

I am inclined to think that I would prefer to be with someone who also naturally felt like a friend in the absence of any romantic feelings. But the trouble is that I have such stereotypically male hobbies and interests that finding genuine female friends in the course of my daily activities is very difficult.

 

Interestingly, women have the same complaint. Single women complain that there aren't enough men around and that there is a "man shortage." I can guess that these women live in female-dominated worlds, where they work as nurses and teachers, and they have stereotypically female hobbies like travelling and shopping. So their complaint is valid, and there definitely is a man shortage is that world.

 

What you are describing here is a heap of men and women who apparently have very poor social skills.

 

People with good social skills don't need to rely on mutual hobbies to connect. Rather, they both connect by having interest in each other's lives, thoughts and feelings.

 

For example, I make Victorian corsets. I don't mention it often, but if people ask me something about hobbies I will mention it. Those with low social skills/extreme self interest glaze over and have nothing to say. Those with solid social skills ask me how I got into it. Where did I learn? What skill sets are required? Likewise if I mention that I'm into genealogy. Poor social skill person will glaze over and have nothing to say. Good social skill person will probably tell me an anecdote about their great grandfather. This is conversation and friendship 101

 

The only thing my BFF and I have in common is that we are similar socio economic, suburb, age and have children. Our conversations are made up of shared thoughts and feelings - hobbies don't come into it. (Though I do have to teach her to use her inherited serger soon)

[carhill]

Difference between men and women. Heterosexual men overwhelmingly bond over activities. Exception is bonding over sex with lovers/partners/spouses. I see that even with friends who'd take a bullet. They eschew all that touchy feeley I want the details of your life thing. Not gonna happen. I'm talking close male friends for literally decades. Ain't gonna happen. In fact they're shocked when called out on that factor. What?! Tough love baby. That's what men have between them. We save the tenderness for the wives because that's what works. Men are pragmatic.

 

However, I got along great with my exW's gay male friends delving into the texture of life, feelings, loves, all that mushy stuff. Huge difference. My hetero male friends just look on with a gaze i won't describe here.

 

I was over at a lesbian's house putting in electrical stuff last weekend and she and I got along great and chatted away while working. I showed her a few tricks on installs and borrowed some of her tools and the time flew by. I've known her about four years now, a friend of my best friend's daughter. Never met a woman who was into the nuts and bolts of working on a house, not a straight one anyway. Then again, she and I would never be lovers, not even in a fantasy life, because, well, she and I both get wet over women

 

Still same answer though, haven't met a woman who was my lover/spouse who'd I'd be a friend with. Other women, sure. Plenty. Different dynamic.

[LastStraw]

That's a great perspective.

 

My first real (REAL) heterosexual male friend is my BF. We have great sexual chemistry but in the core we are friends like no others. I think the reason is NOT the shared interest of which we have plenty anyway, but the fact that I let the boys be boys around me so to speak. Yup, I let him comment of bathroom functions, butts and boobs, and all kind of dirty guy talk. Also when he fixes something I participate (let him lead because he's better lol), when we get out in the woods I get equally covered in mud and never complain of random scratch and little blood here and there.

 

I maybe have my masculine side deep inside which makes our friend level interaction so natural, but the thing is, on the outside I'm a very feminine woman so it balances out. He has never seen me slobbish, he'll never see me in sweats and 'natural'. Same for him: he's a VERY typically masculine guy but have a soft (melancholic, sentimental) side that somehow balances it out and allows bonded friendship on top of the strong sexual bond.

 

I don't know if we are an exception but most of my female friends chirp like little birds around their partners which um doesn't encourage friend bonding with masculine guy, albeit maybe helps for the sexual bonding.

 

Difference between men and women. Heterosexual men overwhelmingly bond over activities. Exception is bonding over sex with lovers/partners/spouses. I see that even with friends who'd take a bullet. They eschew all that touchy feeley I want the details of your life thing. Not gonna happen. I'm talking close male friends for literally decades. Ain't gonna happen. In fact they're shocked when called out on that factor. What?! Tough love baby. That's what men have between them. We save the tenderness for the wives because that's what works. Men are pragmatic.

 

However, I got along great with my exW's gay male friends delving into the texture of life, feelings, loves, all that mushy stuff. Huge difference. My hetero male friends just look on with a gaze i won't describe here.

 

I was over at a lesbian's house putting in electrical stuff last weekend and she and I got along great and chatted away while working. I showed her a few tricks on installs and borrowed some of her tools and the time flew by. I've known her about four years now, a friend of my best friend's daughter. Never met a woman who was into the nuts and bolts of working on a house, not a straight one anyway. Then again, she and I would never be lovers, not even in a fantasy life, because, well, she and I both get wet over women

 

Still same answer though, haven't met a woman who was my lover/spouse who'd I'd be a friend with. Other women, sure. Plenty. Different dynamic.

[basil67]

Love your most recent post Carhill

[2.50 a gallon]

Would we be friends?

Not likely!

My first thought when meeting her was there is a face I could kiss good morning to for the rest of my life.

She would be the OW in my life and I would be the OM in her life.

Our SO's would not put up with that

[greymatter]

I'm the oldest moderator here. Of course I'm here a lot.. when I am I post to relationship topics. I don't post selfies and giggles and costumes on my dog or cat. I don't have any social media accounts anywhere. No Twitter, no Snapchat, no Instagram, no Facebook. When I see MW's and wives of male friends with their faces buried in their phones instead of visiting with company, I thank my lucky starts I'm divorced and out of all that.

 

Right, that's exactly the point I was making that you just validated. I'm aware that you are a moderator. You are giving/spending your free time on a social media platform. It may have a different interface than Twitter, FB, IG, etc. but it is an online platform and place to exchange ideas, discuss, debate, share information etc. just like the others. It's just a different format. It doesn't matter that we don't post photos or selfies, it still is a form of social media.

 

I can't think of a single woman in my various social circles who behaves online like you describe above. My female friends are highly educated, intelligent, mature and savvy women who don't ever do what you are witnessing (though I'm not sure how you know what they post online if you don't have any social media accounts beyond LS, maybe their husbands are complaining to you though). I still don't think it makes sense to generalize to all women what you experience, just like my own experience of how women behave online is drastically different than what others may experience. Our social circles are clearly different, and influence what we think/believe. Anyway....we can agree to disagree on what constitutes social media and your negative view of women as insipidly silly creatures. There are other types of women out there beyond what you experience.

 

I think I would definitely be friends with my boyfriend if we were not also lovers. We both like to hike in the mountains and do moderate to difficult hikes, which not everyone would find fun - it's physically hard, we go in the rain/snow, and it's exhausting (but it's the best to come back depleted after a hike, shower together, and climb into bed...). We love a lot of the same music (thank goodness). We are both highly educated, and my friends tend to value that and have pursued that. We are both high earners but we love to look around thrift stores (together and on our own) even if we hardly ever buy anything - the appeal of buying used things (and the recycling aspect of that) is something we like, but the best part is just looking. Again, in terms of the friend part, he is a good listener, never gives advice which I love, is easy to be around and doesn't talk endlessly. He gets high marks with me for this, in the friend department. But we have a very high degree of sexual attraction for one another and so like another poster said above, if he weren't my boyfriend, I'd be seriously lusting after him given that he is fit, trim, athletic, tall and handsome, and that would make friendship very difficult (if I couldn't have the sexual part). If I weren't with him, I'd probably be with someone else and so would he, and we wouldn't have the opportunity to be friends. But I definitely consider him to be a friend, it's part of our relationship.

[Lotus_Luna]

I really think it depends on what type of person you’re pursuing.

 

It’s been proving that bonding over activities works. It heightens your arousal and naturally you feel bonded to the one you’re with.

 

So dating a partner with whom you have shared activities is going to make you closer.

 

Being with someone I just found romantically attractive sounds so limiting and lame.

 

My husband and I stopped doing things, he decided work was his lover. It impacted our intimacy immediately. With AP we were friends who did friendship things together and with the kids. It’s created a tighter bond just through those shared experiences.

 

I’m a girly girly who loves hiking, fishing, canoeing, landscaping, camping, off

roading....

 

You just need to find someone with shared interests. Maybe joining groups that are slight more gender neutral would work? Or expand your social

Circle?

[carhill]

In my historical demographic, 'pursuit' is the exlusive purview of men, save for perhaps HVM's, and by the time any sort of mutual interests are established with a married or soon to be single woman, or rare single woman, another man who understands that sex and romance are the shared interest has swooped in and claimed the female and then they figure out when not creasing the sheets if there's mutual other interests between them. Once I got it through my thick head to go about it the right way for where and when I lived, success improved. Sure, I had a lot of female friends and activity buddies but they'd never be, and never were, ever, lovers or dating partners. Since the thread title asks 'would you', no, I would not. With the woman I married I'd never have even known of her if not for 'dating' focus. We only learned of any mutual interests during/after dating and mating. Never would have had her as a friend, never would have known her.