My STBX is giving more mixed signals, and some not-so-mixed. Help!

[lifeonhold]

Here is the link that explains the last 5 months. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t53922/

 

My wife told me she wanted a separation, a divorce and needed to let me know that she has been unhappy with me for most of our 8 year relationship and was no longer attracted to me. She hurried into another relationship that fizzled.

 

I'm at a very confusing point currently. The best place to begin is when my wife and I had a bit of a (instigated by me) blowout three weeks ago. She had been asking me to come over now and then, just for a visit and some "family time" with our daughter. I finally cracked and told her that I cannot be her buddy-buddy friend and come to the rescue when she is sad or depressed. That I can't be around her if I expect to ever get past her, I can't be near her while I'm still in-love with her knowing she doesn't return the sentiment. She reacted poorly to this, said that she didn't need me in her life. She told me she had searched for enough love to tell me this was all a mistake and that she wants to try again. She said she can't find that love and knows her and I will never be again. She said it was time to file the divorce paperwork and sent me the link where she was going to do the paperwork online. At this point I threw in the towel and started to force myself to cut her off emotionally from my heart (didn't do to well, but tried).

 

So for two weeks I had no contact with her other than what's necessary with our daughter. I was cold and quick to end conversations on the phone and had no contact in person with her. Last thursday she sent me an email. In short, she asked if I'd be interested in taking our daughter up to play in the snow for the first time as a reward for doing so well with potty training (she is two and a half). She said "I know you can't stand being around me" and "If you don't want to I totally understand and will do something else".

 

I was in a pretty good mood and my response was not cold, as it had been for the two previous weeks. Instead I responded that I'd like to take her to the snow, that I thought we would all have a great time and that our daughter deserves it. I went on to say that it's not that I can't stand to be around her, it's not that I hate her, I don't. I told her I can't be around her because I am still in-love with her and being near her without being able to hold her tight is too hard for me, it makes me fall to pieces.

 

All along she has been very adamant that there is no chance again for us. She has been hard-set on this decision and has shown no holes in her defenses. When she responded to my email, I was very curious. She said this exactly; "Why do you love me? I am a horrible person. I have totally destroyed all our lives. I'm sorry for everything". WOW! My mind of course is swimming in confusion at this point. I ask her where this is all coming from. She responds that she has had a lot of time to think about things. I tell her that I know what I want, but that it's too late. She says "I hate to admit it, but it's never too late. Atleast that's what people tell me." Yep, you can guess that my heart is kinda pounding by now and I'm feeling emotions rush in that I have not felt in months. I ask her what she is feeling in her heart right now, she says "Part of me wants to try to make it work again, but I don't know if you could ever trust me again". I tell her I don't know either, but it's time for her and I to talk in person, she agrees. She tells me she can't understand why she can't just let herself love and be happy. I have wondered this for 8 years. She has been through much pain in her life, the love she has given and been given through her childhood came with high prices in pain and hurt.

 

I go to her apartment that night hoping to talk, she is soo exhausted that she falls asleep before our daughter does. I stay awhile watching tv. I wake her up to tell her I'm going and she asks me to stay. I do. The next day we have a nice time at lunch shopping for snow clothes. The trip the following day was great, except she gets sick... Strep throat. High fever and miserable despite her efforts to have a nice time. Our daughter had a blast and my wife tells me that she had a wonderful time and that even just being stuck in the car in the blizzard for 4 hours was a nice getaway. When we got back I asked if she'd like to have dinner, just her and I within the next few days to talk. She tells me "I'll let you know".

 

I take her to the Doctor the next day, I mention that the ball is in her court and that I'm ready to talk when she is. She says "Now is not the place and time". I say that I know. Later that night (this is yesterday) she tells me on the phone, when calling to say hi to our daughter, that she is not sure what she wants, that she just doesn't know. I told her it's been difficult making up my mind, but that I'm ready to talk when she makes up her mind.

 

So here is the jist of this entire epilogue I've typed... I don't know what to do next. I know I want her back, I know if she is willing, we can turn this all into a positive and have a happier, more beautiful marriage and life using the lessons we've learned. I know I can forgive her, even though it will be very difficult, and will take much time. I'm afraid that I may be pushing too hard for her to talk about this. I wonder if maybe she wants me to take command and tell her we must try this again, or atleast have a very open discussion about it. I don't know if it's time to be patient again, or if I need to sieze this opportunity before the window closes. This is soo risky for me, here I am with my heart open on a platter, ready for her to do with as she pleases, I'm afraid she may plunge the knife into it again. I'm not sure I could take it.

 

Any advice? Especially from any Ladies who may have been in my wife's shoes?

 

Thanks

JD

[MassiveAtom]

Originally posted by lifeonhold

I don't know what to do next. I know I want her back, I know if she is willing, we can turn this all into a positive and have a happier, more beautiful marriage and life using the lessons we've learned. I know I can forgive her, even though it will be very difficult, and will take much time. I'm afraid that I may be pushing too hard for her to talk about this. I wonder if maybe she wants me to take command and tell her we must try this again, or atleast have a very open discussion about it. I don't know if it's time to be patient again, or if I need to sieze this opportunity before the window closes. This is soo risky for me, here I am with my heart open on a platter, ready for her to do with as she pleases, I'm afraid she may plunge the knife into it again. I'm not sure I could take it.

 

Any advice? Especially from any Ladies who may have been in my wife's shoes?

 

Thanks

JD

 

JD,

 

When all the acrimony goes away, it's easier for all of us to get back in touch with the tender, more gentle feelings that are still there. They will always be there. I think. If she put your heart in a blender, it's because you let her. Take your heart back now, and DON'T go running back. Stand firm and challenge this new development with objectivity, and peace. If you can,, you will see the reality of the person with whom you've fallen in love. Base your decision on her ACTIONS, watch what she does, what she says, her facial expressions, body language. ANY Mixed signals are sure to be a tell tale sign that she's just lonely, and isn't ready for a real commitment.

 

I've seen it far too often. Guys think about a situation with their hearts, (and they say men aren't emotional) and not objectively. PRotect yourself, or you will be have your heart pureed again.

 

 

MA

[lifeonhold]

I know I must be objective, and it is hard, at times impossible due to how much I love this woman. I know that the root of this is that she has problems letting herself love and be happy, she has always believed she does not deserve it. She has always had problems with intimacy, or even the casual expressions of affection. She has been unwilling to work on these problems so far. Perhaps she is realizing that she will be doomed to repeat history over and over with other men unless she changes and seeks help. Maybe, just maybe she is thinking that if she would be willing to do this for another man, that she owes it to herself, our daughter and to me to try to work on these things with ME. Maybe not.

 

This is the first hint at light coming from the end of the tunnel since this began. I know that if she is saying that part of her wants to try again, that it's the tip of the iceberg. She has always said 5% of what she feels and let's the rest stay hidden inside. I'm just having a tough time guessing what that other 95% is.

 

I will do my best to step back from this and be objective, be patient, and let her come to me. I think that may be the smart move. though it's a big gamble either way I guess.

[MassiveAtom]

Originally posted by lifeonhold

I know I must be objective, and it is hard, at times impossible due to how much I love this woman. I know that the root of this is that she has problems letting herself love and be happy, she has always believed she does not deserve it. She has always had problems with intimacy, or even the casual expressions of affection. She has been unwilling to work on these problems so far. Perhaps she is realizing that she will be doomed to repeat history over and over with other men unless she changes and seeks help. Maybe, just maybe she is thinking that if she would be willing to do this for another man, that she owes it to herself, our daughter and to me to try to work on these things with ME. Maybe not.

 

I reading that your unsure about how she REALLY feels, AND unsure how YOU feel. JD, you'll never fully know how she feels, but you can know how YOU feel. Take it to a counselor, and get your head and heart saying the same things. THAT's tough to do. but you can.

 

This is the first hint at light coming from the end of the tunnel since this began. I know that if she is saying that part of her wants to try again, that it's the tip of the iceberg. She has always said 5% of what she feels and let's the rest stay hidden inside. I'm just having a tough time guessing what that other 95% is.

 

Or it could be the last 5% of what she ONCE felt. Are you absolutely certain that light at the end of the tunnel isn't an oncoming locomotive?

Please be careful , JD. I know the situation is frightening too. But don't act irrationally. Take this VERY, VERY slowly.

 

I will do my best to step back from this and be objective, be patient, and let her come to me. I think that may be the smart move. though it's a big gamble either way I guess.

 

You are so right.

[lifeonhold]

Originally posted by MassiveAtom

I reading that your unsure about how she REALLY feels, AND unsure how YOU feel. JD, you'll never fully know how she feels, but you can know how YOU feel. Take it to a counselor, and get your head and heart saying the same things. THAT's tough to do. but you can.

 

No, I'm sure of what I want. I want the chance to be with her, the chance to grow old and spend my life loving her, caring for her and sharing life and love. The issue is that I don't want to carry this alone, I don't want her to be semi, or even mostly committed to this and to me. I want her to want this to work, and for the right reasons.

 

I'm going to reinforce my spine for this battle. I'm not going to turn to mush and blow the possibility of this happening. I know I must be strong, and give her distance while really picking through how she acts and what she says.

 

Thanks Bro.

 

Any more advice from anyone who has been on the other side of the coin from where I am? I know there must be women on here who initiated a separation/divorce only to battle with regrets and second thoughts.. What could be going through her head?

 

JD

 

-Edit. She just called and is feeling better. Asked if I could bring our daughter to her tonite and if I'd like to stay and watch a movie. I'm going to do this. I will leave my agenda at home and be pure plutonic this evening. If she wants to talk, she can kick off the discussion.

[Lil Honey]

Originally posted by lifeonhold

Any more advice from anyone who has been on the other side of the coin from where I am? I know there must be women on here who initiated a separation/divorce only to battle with regrets and second thoughts.. What could be going through her head?

 

JD

 

LifeOnHold:

 

I was unhappy most of my married life. I initiated our divorce. The divorce was final January 3. So far, I have not had any regrets. Folks always have second thoughts about the fork in the road and which way they take.

 

I hope it helps you somehow to know that I did, at a couple points, want to work it out. I told him how I felt, we went to counseling a couple times (not enough times, btw), and he just didn't "get it." We simply kept growing further and further apart until I felt like a roommate. I had no feelings left for him, other than he felt like a family member, like a brother, for God's sake.

 

I felt lonely in my marriage. I left because I figured that I may not be happier being alone, but I'd feel different.

[lifeonhold]

Thanks for the reply Lil Honey,

 

I have always been the flexible one. I have always been the one who would bend, or adapt, or outright change to try and better suit my wife. I was always trying to make her happy, or happier... To a fault. I lost much of myself through our marriage and relationship. Gave up many things that were dear to me and a part of who I am, or was.

 

Never was there any type of abuse whatsoever, if anything, I was the one who should have felt lonley. I was the one who was starved for affection, kindness and the small things you take for granted in a loving relationship. I can't even blame her for this, it's something inside of her that she can't help. Why did I have to fall in-love with someone who is so screwed up emotionally? What a rollercoaster!

 

Anyways, what I read into your post is that even if it's not necessarily the right thing for her, or both of us, there will ne times when she thinks she wants to try it again. At that point, if I'm not personally the unmovable obstacle there might be a chance of it working out between us. Well, she has always managed to be her own worst enemy and single worst sabateur.

 

I wish I could flick the off switch in my heart over her. I wish there were an off switch ~

 

JD

[Lil Honey]

LifeOnHold:

 

I was once having issues with my daughter and her boyfriend (a whole other story) and I'll tell you something that my sister told me (and yes, it does apply to your situation as well) . . .

 

"Do all you can to make the situation better. If you don't, someday you will look back on it, wishing that you would have done more, knowing and regretting that you didn't do everything that you could. If you do everything that you can and it doesn't work out, when the someday comes and you are looking back, you will rest assured knowing that you did all that you could. There can't be any regret in that."

[Owl]

Lifeonhold-

 

I agree with part of what's been said so far. It's very likely that your wife's eyes are just coming open for the first time in a long time. I just glanced through your story, and I'm kind of curious if you've considered a few things.

 

You mention that she had this "friend" within a few weeks of your seperation beginning. Are you absolutely positive that she didn't have this friend BEFORE you seperated??? Here's why I'm asking... If she had started an affair during your marriage, that would explain ALL of this confusion that she's gone through. Read some of the stuff over on Marriagebuilders. When she started investing emotionally in this guy, she STOPPED doing so with you. So then she begans to "re-write" your marriage (I've never been happy with you....)...when you KNOW that she was happy... This is what they call the "fog" over there. Basically, it's the confusion that someone goes through when they're having an affair. It's how they try to justify their actions...even if just to themselves.

 

And what you're describing now sounds even more typical of an affair. When they tried to work it out as a couple...it fell apart. So now she's left with no one, facing the consequences of her actions. And, she's now seeing clearer than she has in ages. She sees that she really has loved you all this time...and she's seeing just exactly what she's done.

 

I don't agree with everyone saying don't go back to her. BUT...be smart in what you do. If you DO decide to work things out, then use this chance to FIX your marriage...for both of you. Insist that if you begin to work things out that you both go to counseling...individual and marriage would likely be best. Make sure that you get a counselor who is familiar with affairs and how they work. Make her understand that there were things in your marriage you weren't happy with either...and if she wants to work it out, she will HAVE to address those issues as well.

 

Last thing...trust seems easy to rebuild when you're first wanting to reconcile. It is harder than you think. It is NOT impossible...but it's not going to come easy either. I know...my wife had an emotional affair about nine months ago, and nearly left me and our kids, just as it sounds like happened in your case.

 

Good luck friend!

[lifeonhold]

Thank you everyone who has given me advice. Everything has helped, even if it just reinforces what I think or plays a devil's advocate against it.

 

I went to her house last night, we watched Napolean Dynamite (pretty darn funny, btw). After the movie she started crying and we started talking. She says she is confused and unsure of what to do. She says she knows how much damage and pain she has caused. She also finally came out and TOLD me that she wants me to take control because she feels she has no self control, and no control over her own life. She told me she is not ready to go speak with a marriage counselor yet but we agreed that we will begin the process of communication about the possibility of a reconciliation. She want's to go very slow, as do I. She is afraid that she may end up in this same place in the future again and told me she could make no promises that this will work. However, she is willing to begin the long process of trying and realizes that much must change between us and inside each of us. She says she cannot forgive herself, that she is afraid to love deeply because everyone she has loved deeply has died, and in-turn hurt her. I chose not to talk too much, instead I just held her, and she held me. I spent the night and we had a very nice morning together with our daughter.

 

This is a scary road to begin down, but it is what my heart truley wants. I know it as much as I know I love my family.

 

JD

[MassiveAtom]

Be careful. With you. With her.

You are in a tenuous but hopeful situation.

 

The offer still stands.

We're here for you.

 

MA

[Owl]

I mean this respectfully man, so please take it that way.

 

This is NOT the time to let her set boundaries or limits. If she wants YOU to take control, then she can't set the limit of "not ready for marriage counseling". Seriously, she's afraid of going to marriage counseling because she's going to have to face everything she's done. She knows that it's going to hurt like hell...but IT HAS TO HAPPEN. If she doesn't...if you two don't work out WHY it happened, then it WILL happen all over again. She's still trying to keep an "out"...she's trying to maintain the secrecy of what all went on.

 

Don't let her do that to you...to your hope of a future relationship. Tell her point blank that if she wants you to take control, then you will...and she has to abide by that. Tell her that you BOTH have to take steps to work this out...and from my experience, counseling is going to be CRITICAL for you to make it.

 

She is NOT in a position to negotiate terms of surrender...she needs to take the steps that both of you need to heal from this. If she's not willing...then don't take her back, no matter how much you want to. Because then you'll just be setting up the pattern for this all to happen again.

 

Good luck!

[lifeonhold]

Thanks Owl, both you and MA are making a ton of sense. I can't let myself get excited in this, not do what is needed and cause myself more pain and anguish in the longrun. I agree, counseling is not only necessary, but mandatory. I know she is afraid of facing the counselor with me there, she has much to come clean about. She has agreed to counseling with me but thinks (and I kinda agree) that we need to spend a little time first talking some of the lighter things through. I'm not going to dig into the meat and potatoes of this without a objective professional present, I've told her this and she thinks it's best as well.

 

I'll be careful. I've gotten pretty good at preparing for the worst while hoping for the best.

 

JD

[Devildog]

JD, I can't give you any better advice than what Owl and MA have already given you. I agree 110% with what they are telling you. This should be on your terms and you need to demand the counseling. And individual counseling needs to occur for both of you as well as joint counseling. My personal opinion is that both of you should do individual counseling for a bit before you go jointly. Gives you both a chance to get comfortable with the counselor as well as with the process itself. Also it might help to understand why each of you have done the things you have done, making it a bit easier to discuss it together.

 

Hang in there, it sounds like there is real hope for you. But if she truly wants to reconcile she will be willing to put forth an honest effort with the counseling. If she is giving it a half hearted attempt, she is just using you as a safety net. I know it is hard when your heart wants so desperately to be with her, but this needs to be an all or nothing thing if you are to ever be truly happy together again. If she just does enough to keep you around as a safety net, then it sets the stage for her to do this to you again.