Deciding whether to save marriage if no kids - anyone else in similar situation?

[BadWife]

I've been following several threads on here with interest and appreciate all different perspectives, but it seems like the majority of the stories I've read all involve couples with children. I am interested in hearing more about how the decision to separate or stay together is made when there are no kids in the picture.

 

By way of background, I'm early 30s, married about 6 years, and been with my partner 10+. No kids, we've talked about it "someday" but as more time passes the more we feel we'd be okay if we don't have kids. We are both busy professionals, both with good salaries. Overall we get along well but have been living more like roommates for a long time. I had an affair which is over now and I came clean. He says he forgives me, acknowledges he also hadn't been prioritizing our marriage (though no affair on his end) and said he wants to work on it - but that he will sign the papers and the divorce would be amicable if it came to that. And even that he could see us continuing to live together regardless. I'm not sure if I am committed, but I feel like I owe it to him to try.

 

Just hoping to hear from others in a similar situation.

[CarrieT]

Overall we get along well but have been living more like roommates for a long time.

I'm of the mind that good roommates are a dime-a-dozen and can be found on Craigslist.

 

What you have to decide - the both of you - is what do you want for your future(s)? If you want more than a roommate situation and you truly want it with each other, than considerable work will need to be done to get back in love with each other.

 

If one or the other of you don't want to put in the energy to reclaiming whatever spark you had that brought you together, than I would advise divorcing and moving on.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not sure if I am committed, but I feel like I owe it to him to try.

 

Just hoping to hear from others in a similar situation.

 

Sounds like you're asking us to assess both your level of dissatisfaction and willingness to endure. Obviously, can't be done from this end.

 

Which do you prioritize - passion/intimacy or comfort/companionship? There's no one-size fits all answer...

 

Mr. Lucky

[casey.lives]

someone who easily forgives an affair has emotional blocks! The intimacy issues are coming from both sides

[RightThere]

I'm not sure if I am committed, but I feel like I owe it to him to try.

 

If you're not committed, then it makes it a lot harder to actually reconcile. You seem like you'll just be waiting for the other shoe to drop or maybe he'll leave you first so you don't feel as responsible.

 

If you are only in love with him enough to "kinda try" reconciliation, then you probably already know what you want to do. You just need to build up the courage to actually do it.

[kenmore]

Honestly what I read was "I'm kinda meh" and "he's kinda meh." I didn't read "I can't live without him."

 

Going just by that post and not knowing what you two had in those six years, I'd say meh...(DON'T try to live together as friends, what a nightmare!!!)

 

Now, care to post some reasons for sticking it out? Do you have some? Do you think he has some? Why do you think he would want to stay married?

 

Give some positives or my advice is neither of you seem to care. If that's the case, you can probably answer your own question yourselves.

 

Ken

[kenmore]

...and don't try for him, try if you really want it!

[BadWife]

Thanks to everyone who's replied, though interestingly noone from the DINK ranks. Sorry I can't figure out how to use the multi-quote function.

 

Carrie - I disagree with the premise that "good roommates are a dime-a-dozen and can be found on Craigslist" but the analogy still holds. There are a lot of total weirdos on Craigslist! And more bad roommates then good. We get along very well and could both certainly do a lot worst. In a lot of ways it is better to stick with the familiar.

 

Lucky - "passion/intimacy or comfort/companionship" is certainly the question. Passion is definitely lacking and has been for a long time, but the comfort/companionship is there. Is that enough? Maybe it is.

 

RightThere - There is definitely some truth to: "maybe he'll leave you first so you don't feel as responsible." For a while there I was pushing him away, being argumentative and I think kind of wanted him to decide I'm not worth it and leave me. We've talked about it and joked about how I need to man up otherwise he's just going to stay with me out of spite.

 

Kenmore - Meh sums it up. He told me point blank that he wants to stay married, asked what I wanted to see him change, asked if I wanted to start MC (I'm doing IC currently), is giving me time to figure things out, etc. He is all in. He is a great guy, I told him he deserves to be with someone who loves him back the same way but he says he doesn't want that he wants me. He acknowledged that it would be easier for him if he didn't want to be with me, I'm not the easiest person to be with, but he says he loves me and I'm the one for him. No I don't get it either.

[Ronni_W]

BadWife,

You're NOT a "bad wife" - only a person trying to figure-out how best for you to continue navigating this thing we call "life on Earth"

 

With hardly any changes, my marriage was as you describe yours (including no kids) -- however, could not have described it as eloquently as you have.

For me, it was just an inner sense that there was something more to what was my then-life, and I couldn't see a way to get at it from within the relationship that I had co-created to that point. With hindsight, it was that I wasn't growing at inner levels; and...I didn't really perceive the freedom or support that I thought I needed to do that. It's impossible to say how accurate -- or inaccurate -- my then-perception was, but...I don't regret my decision to get divorced.

 

We ended up voluntarily staying roommates for 10 years after our divorce; completely independent of each other's personal/romantic lives but nonetheless great friends and supporters of each other. I made lots of changes which, had I been married, I (we) probably would have found excuses and justifications why it would have been "impossible" for me to do...for financial or whatever other "reasons".

Point here being that this is a potential option for people who otherwise truly do care about each other and do get along, but it's out of the norm, so many don't consider it. (It was NOT easy at the beginning, I will say that! .)

 

But. Same thing. Then-hubby wanted to maintain status quo; I needed something more. We could debate if he had just become complacent; emotionally lazy; willing to settle for comfort, stability, predictability.

 

Starting to ramble (in my head, if not yet on "paper")

 

It wasn't an easy decision. Twice in the process, I felt truly suicidal. Since then - about 15 years - SO many ups and downs, but not any serious question about whether or not it was the best decision that I could have made for myself at the time. Given all that was, it was.

 

Wishing you the highest and very best of all that you need through this phase.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Ronni_W

[KBarletta]

Thanks to everyone who's replied, though interestingly noone from the DINK ranks. Sorry I can't figure out how to use the multi-quote function.

 

Carrie - I disagree with the premise that "good roommates are a dime-a-dozen and can be found on Craigslist" but the analogy still holds. There are a lot of total weirdos on Craigslist! And more bad roommates then good. We get along very well and could both certainly do a lot worst. In a lot of ways it is better to stick with the familiar.

 

Lucky - "passion/intimacy or comfort/companionship" is certainly the question. Passion is definitely lacking and has been for a long time, but the comfort/companionship is there. Is that enough? Maybe it is.

 

RightThere - There is definitely some truth to: "maybe he'll leave you first so you don't feel as responsible." For a while there I was pushing him away, being argumentative and I think kind of wanted him to decide I'm not worth it and leave me. We've talked about it and joked about how I need to man up otherwise he's just going to stay with me out of spite.

 

Kenmore - Meh sums it up. He told me point blank that he wants to stay married, asked what I wanted to see him change, asked if I wanted to start MC (I'm doing IC currently), is giving me time to figure things out, etc. He is all in. He is a great guy, I told him he deserves to be with someone who loves him back the same way but he says he doesn't want that he wants me. He acknowledged that it would be easier for him if he didn't want to be with me, I'm not the easiest person to be with, but he says he loves me and I'm the one for him. No I don't get it either.

 

Truthfully, it sounds to me like you need marriage counseling. You two have issues that - if you are able to work though them - do not seem insurmountable. Plenty of people develop *meh* feelings in long-term relationships but that isn't always a reason to throw in the towel for good. Sometimes it takes work to reignite the spark that brought you together in the first place. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I think you owe it to each other to try. Too many people pack it in too quickly for no good reason and end up regretting it later. Six months of marriage counseling now - whether it ends up saving your marriage or not - could spare you a lifetime of "what ifs" later.

[Mr. Lucky]

Lucky - "passion/intimacy or comfort/companionship" is certainly the question. Passion is definitely lacking and has been for a long time, but the comfort/companionship is there. Is that enough? Maybe it is.

 

For me, no. My wife did something to me last night that, 12 hours later, is still causing the top of my head and toes to tingle. And we're coming up on 30 years . Don't think I could - or would want to - live without it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[qubist]

Badwife: why don't you consider MC? you will find out if you are really good for each other. one thing for sure do not continue on living the way you are without any changes. It sounds to me like you feel sort of guilty. and I don't think it is all your fault he probably has to work on things to make you like being with him again. if he is willing to forgive your A he must love you so give it a chance and go to MC

[BadWife]

Ronni - Thank you so much for sharing. If you don't mind me asking, are you still in contact with your ex-husband, and did you remarry?

 

KB and qubist - Communication had been one of our problems and I don't doubt MC would help with that and is probably beneficial whether we stay together or not. The only reason we haven't started I guess is a little bit a fear coupled with procrastination and busy schedules.

 

Right now a lot of my reasons for staying together are purely practical considerations; it is simply "easier." There are definitely feelings of guilt, and also fear of "failure." But also we do care about each other, and I can't imagine not having him in my life in some capacity after so long together. But he is very kind and supportive guy, handsome, good job, my family loves him; really on paper not much more I could ask for.

 

I'm thinking I will ask him to go to a movie this weekend, maybe dinner before or after. It's a start right?

[oldshirt]

People can live as roommates for years. You two can probably carry on in your "meh" roommatelike arrangement for a long time..

 

.....That is until one of you meets someone that makes your heart go litter pat and that person will have you/him fulltime. And then that person will be out the door in a matter of days or weeks.

 

To make this work and to have a happy and healthy marriage, both of you need to be all-in and be totally committed. It certainly doesn't sound like either of you are at that point.

 

I think your options are -

 

- to continue to mark-time for the comfort and resting inertia that you have now but just be counting down the days untill one of meets the right person and then upset the Apple cart by packing up and leaving over the course of a weekend.

 

- devote yourselves to Turing this around into a happy and healthy marriage which will require time, money and effort.

 

- save yourselves the turmoil and upheaval when one of you meets someone and divorce amicably and fairly now.

[oldshirt]

.......bottom line here is this comfortable roommate scenario is not going to last forever. It's just a matter of time before one of you does meet someone and walks. And when that happens it will happen fast.

 

Your practical roommate arrangement is on borrowed time, it can't last and once the fruit cart is upset when one of you finds someone, it will probably not be possible to put things back together a second time.

 

Your only real "practical" solutions that will have positive long term outcomes are divorce now and move on, or put everything into reconciliation with no guarentees of success.

[qubist]

People can live as roommates for years. You two can probably carry on in your "meh" roommatelike arrangement for a long time..

 

.....That is until one of you meets someone that makes your heart go litter pat and that person will have you/him fulltime. And then that person will be out the door in a matter of days or weeks.

 

To make this work and to have a happy and healthy marriage, both of you need to be all-in and be totally committed. It certainly doesn't sound like either of you are at that point.

 

I think your options are -

 

- to continue to mark-time for the comfort and resting inertia that you have now but just be counting down the days untill one of meets the right person and then upset the Apple cart by packing up and leaving over the course of a weekend.

 

- devote yourselves to Turing this around into a happy and healthy marriage which will require time, money and effort.

 

- save yourselves the turmoil and upheaval when one of you meets someone and divorce amicably and fairly now.

I agree 100%, Badwife : you and your H will have to chose one of these routes, I would highly recommend route#2, I just think he's been so good to you and I'm afraid you won't find someone that would love you as much. it is good that you want to go out with him to a movie/dinner but you might want to invest time and money to MC. with MC you will find out for sure if you love each other, if it doesn't work at least you tried and won't feel bad that you had the opportunity to make it work and you didn't

[Arieswoman]

BW,

 

I'm not sure if I am committed, but I feel like I owe it to him to try.

 

Then don't lead him on if you aren't really committed. Don't waste his time and both your monies on I/C, M/C whatever, unless you are 100% sure you want to make this work.

[Ronni_W]

Ronni - Thank you so much for sharing. If you don't mind me asking, are you still in contact with your ex-husband, and did you remarry?

Not at all...feel free to ask whatever comes to mind.

We lost touch after we sold the "former matrimonial home", so no direct contact for going on 7 years. (His then-g/f never did get comfy with me or my family still being part of his life.) But I'm still in touch with his sister, as she is with my mom...our families will always be family .

I was in a long-term relationship but not legally remarried. My ex and LT got to know each other, were friendly, played golf together; the LT counselled the ex when he experienced issues with this or that woman in his life. (The LT ended after about 10 years, began very shortly after my separation, was not the cause of or reason for the divorce, though.)

 

Part of why we lived together after, was practical - it made sense on almost every level...and/but, especially at the beginning, was also just guilt on my part. I was "uprooting" enough of his life, "making him" feel this and experience that; blah, blah, blah. A bad (former) wife, if you will.

 

The problem with any kind of counselling - individual or couples - is that if one is more attached to maintaining status quo or has become complacent/"happy where I am", then there's really nothing a counsellor can do to precipitate the inner shift that is necessary for real change to start happening. (We did MC.)

But he is very kind and supportive guy, handsome, good job, my family loves him; really on paper not much more I could ask for.

So...you know my ex then???

 

Seriously. Even to this very day -- maybe in the past two or three months -- I said to someone, "On paper, we REALLY SHOULD HAVE WORKED!!!" We really should have, really. But also: woulda, coulda, shoulda. Right?

Edited August 7, 2015 by Ronni_W

[BadWife]

Ronni - Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm nodding along as I read what you wrote, it definitely speaks to me. I think you may be the future me!

 

We own a house that is < 5 miles from both of our workplaces, in a very HCOL area. This house has increased in value almost 100% since we purchased it 5 years ago. Our mortgage equivalent to the current rent on a one bedroom apartment. And day to day we do get along very well.

 

A big part of it is I had felt a little smothered. I am close to my family and have a lot of friends I see regularly, whereas I felt like he relied on me to be his sole source of support and entertainment. I felt guilty about wanted to do things without him, because then he'd just be home alone wondering when I'm coming back. One of the things I told him I needed, if we do stay together, is that he needs to have a bit of a life without me. When I met him he had interests, he was in a band, more outgoing. But I also need to accept that he is okay with/even wants more down time and is okay being alone, doesn't have to be busy all the time.

 

I think if I had spent the last 10 years "footloose and fancy free" and met my husband today, I would definitely want to settle down with him. I just feel like I never fully grew up, learned to live alone, etc. I take for granted just how good I have it.

[oldshirt]

Ronni - Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm nodding along as I read what you wrote, it definitely speaks to me. I think you may be the future me!

 

We own a house that is < 5 miles from both of our workplaces, in a very HCOL area. This house has increased in value almost 100% since we purchased it 5 years ago. Our mortgage equivalent to the current rent on a one bedroom apartment. And day to day we do get along very well.

 

A big part of it is I had felt a little smothered. I am close to my family and have a lot of friends I see regularly, whereas I felt like he relied on me to be his sole source of support and entertainment. I felt guilty about wanted to do things without him, because then he'd just be home alone wondering when I'm coming back. One of the things I told him I needed, if we do stay together, is that he needs to have a bit of a life without me. When I met him he had interests, he was in a band, more outgoing. But I also need to accept that he is okay with/even wants more down time and is okay being alone, doesn't have to be busy all the time.

 

I think if I had spent the last 10 years "footloose and fancy free" and met my husband today, I would definitely want to settle down with him. I just feel like I never fully grew up, learned to live alone, etc. I take for granted just how good I have it.

 

 

This kinda sounds like an attraction issue. He's become complacent and needy and has become too "beta" to hold your attraction and desire as opposed to any actual deal-breaker relationship issues on his part.

 

This would also explain your affair and seeking some studmuffin elsewhere.

 

It may be worth introducing him "Married Man Sex Life" and getting him lined up with Athol Kay's books and podcasts and forums on bumping up his alpha to get some of your attraction and respect back.

 

Women's attraction goes hand in hand with their respect and admiration for a man and if their respect/admiration plummets because the guy is sitting on the couch waiting for her to entertain him and get him out doing something, her attraction and desire will quickly drop as well.

 

This can be turned around but it takes effort and time to get back what has been lost.

[Ronni_W]

I think you may be the future me!

Well...maybe. Except for our bloody house didn't do what yours did...we went with the "buy high, sell low" model of financial planning

Seriously. No. I'd wish for you less of the challenges that I faced. Not that I haven't also learned a great deal from mine; and not that I'd want to deprive you of all the experiences that you want/need for your own growth.

 

It is true that...I had taken on -- willingly but unconsciously -- the responsibility for my ex's health and welfare (mental, emotional, physical), and that he had clean underwear, and that he had the kind of jeans that he liked, and, and, and...and, at the end, it just was a burden that I could no longer bear by myself.

Please note here that I didn't know this at the time. And some of it is STILL in my own psychology, that I'm still working on uncovering and going beyond.

 

You are ahead of the game, in that you are recognizing that there are some things for which you are NOT responsible...and, I assume also, your recognition that it is beyond your control.

 

For me. We had in any case already lost our romantic/sexual interest in each other. Today, that is not so important for me as it was 15 or 20 years ago. At that time, I would not have chosen to settle for a sexless marriage.

 

But. From where I'm looking today...I could, I think -- I think but cannot know for sure -- I might have been able to fulfill that "inner sense need/longing for more" within my marital relationship (excluding factoring in anything about sex.)

Also, not that we didn't have 'romance'; or, at least what for me is 'romance', which I recognize is or can be different for everybody.

 

Question for you: How are you reconciling "I'd want to settle down with him" on one hand, and "I don't want to be settled down with him", on the other?

If we just put you where you are right now (because, where ELSE can we position you?), then what needs to change -- on the inner AND on the outer -- for you to be in the "I DO want to settle down with him"-frame of mind?

[Ronni_W]

Women's attraction goes hand in hand with their respect and admiration for a man and if their respect/admiration plummets because the guy is sitting on the couch waiting for her to entertain him and get him out doing something, her attraction and desire will quickly drop as well.

True but I think this goes both ways, though. Neither gender is attracted -- for the long-term -- to someone for whom there is no respect/admiration. Even though the specific elements or characteristics for that respect or admiration may be different. At the same time, of course: both women and men can be attracted to someone simply for their outer/superficial characteristics. But, I think, generally would not decide to get married based only or primarily on the superficialities. (I mean...yes, there are also "trophy" spouses, but not right now talking about that aspect of some people's psychology.)

 

In my case, I did not marry a "couch potato", as it were. Complacency or whatever it actually was, developed over time...and not only on his part. Is there such a thing as "level of complacency" or "point where I'm done with this stagnation we've been happily doing together and now I'm ready to start growing again"? In my case, it was more something like that, I think.

[kenmore]

I hate to rain on parades but I think staying together for convenience is a bad idea! I also think divorcing and living together is a bad idea, but I may be speaking from personal feelings. I just wouldn't do it, but Ronni seems to have been OK with it. IDK.

 

What I am still reading is HE wants to stay together. HE wants to make it work. He forgives your affair. I haven't read YOU actually want to put much into it. Add to that that you had an affair, it's looking pretty clear where your heart is. I know you feel remorse for it and I apologize if I'm hitting a nerve, but from here in front of this computer that's what I am seeing.

 

If you are not really into it then it can't work no matter how much he wants it. You will always feel dissatisfied and wanting more. Eventually that will turn into resentment.

 

I'm not a big advocate of divorce, in fact I hate it, but you need to know how you really feel inside. If your heart isn't going to make it, then I'd say don't make the whole thing suffer through years of MC, making believe, you two getting older and limiting your chances of future happiness etc. If you're going to eventually break up, then get the heck on with it.

 

Search your feelings Luke! Be honest about it. If a guy who you really fell for came along, would you have another affair? Screw complacency and laziness. Don't set yourselves up for more and more hurt unless you are really willing to commit (and I believe you already said you weren't.)

 

No matter what, my best!

 

Ken

[Ronni_W]

I hate to rain on parades but I think staying together for convenience is a bad idea! I also think divorcing and living together is a bad idea, but I may be speaking from personal feelings. I just wouldn't do it, but Ronni seems to have been OK with it. IDK.

I don't disagree with you, ken. It did work (very well) for us, but it was not easy; it took quite some effort, especially at the beginning.

 

If, at any time prior, you'd have told either of us that we'd end up doing what we did, we'd each have told you that you're bloody daft. And, I'd not recommend it to about 99.9% of divorcing couples. But, rather than looking at it as a "good" or "bad" idea, it can just be more about what has the potential to work best for both people. Divorce - the whole thing from beginning to long past the so-called "end" -- sucks bad enough. Holy crap, does it suck bad!

 

Like you, I'd also prefer if people can find a way to live happily together. It's not yet such an ideal world...but that doesn't mean that I've given up hope on us, collectively, getting there

[kenmore]

I don't disagree with you, ken. It did work (very well) for us, but it was not easy; it took quite some effort, especially at the beginning.

 

If, at any time prior, you'd have told either of us that we'd end up doing what we did, we'd each have told you that you're bloody daft. And, I'd not recommend it to about 99.9% of divorcing couples. But, rather than looking at it as a "good" or "bad" idea, it can just be more about what has the potential to work best for both people. Divorce - the whole thing from beginning to long past the so-called "end" -- sucks bad enough. Holy crap, does it suck bad!

 

Like you, I'd also prefer if people can find a way to live happily together. It's not yet such an ideal world...but that doesn't mean that I've given up hope on us, collectively, getting there

 

Ronni, the question is can you know what it would have been like if you had a clean break? Well no you can't because that was not the path you chose.

 

For myself if we had to break up and apparently we did, then I think it's awesome that it was merciful and quick. Rip that band-aid right off! A year and a month after the big breakup and I'm healing (as is she, but I think she had a head start) and looking forward to finding someone to spend the rest of my life with...(as soon as I establish a new career, settle in to a new location, build up some funds, gain some self respect back etc...trivialities )

 

It's all huge and you are right to point out that we are all different and sometimes what is hell for one person is right for another. I'm glad it worked out for you two but the impression I got is that it ended eventually. That must have been painful...ten years after you divorced? Ouch!

 

I still think for most people, it's just best to be done and move on with your life. You're the anomaly and hugs! I think that's great!

 

Ken