Really should I leave my wife?

[m1ke11]

So glad I found this place. Seem like good people here.

 

My story is this:

 

I married the second girl I ever dated seriously ever. We've been married 20 years since and she really is my best friend. We have two kids 17 and 10.

 

I have been really unhappy these last five years. Lost my passion bike racing to the point where I didn't even ride. Blood pressure way up 10 lbs overweight and a stress case. Drinking too much and that's strange for someone that considers themselves an athlete. Didn't know why.

 

Recently I had an emotional affair. Didn't even know such things existed. I dropped 15 pounds and I'm racing my bike again with drive and passion. Doing ok at it too! I felt like a man again. The affair was good for me, I really think so.

 

I ended the emotional affair once I understood what it was.

 

Some facts:

 

I have actually had two emotional affairs. (Why.)

I have more recently gone out with friends only to discover I wasn't acting like a married man should. (Why.)

It might happen again, I can't always control it.

I am attracted to my wife, she is beautiful.

Problems:

 

She never asks for sex. I take it as rejection and stew about it.

She rarely wants to have sex or grudgingly concedes. Again rejection.

She suffers from anxiety and I am run down because I try to do everything.

She has low self esteem and I have tried and failed so many times to bolster her esteem. I take up the slack again for this.

Sometimes the tv seems more important to her than her kids or my needs.

I work a lot basically two jobs and do almost all home repairs myself including major ones. She adds things to the list and doesn't chip in.

The kids are not at the top of her priority. Daughter had a meltdown last year, I was a wreck because of it. My wife upstairs watching tv because she can't "deal" with confrontation. She tries to escape every time. I am a strong man that was reduced to tears probably 5x last year including once at work.

 

 

More recently:

I laid everything on the table including my behaviors.

She has made some major changes.

I'm afraid I don't trust that her changes are for real or will last. She won't promise that they will last. I like the changes she made though.

I am seeing a counselor and it always comes back to "it's time to take care of myself". And separation might be the way to do that. Counselor reassures me it's ok to take care of yourself first, but I feel tremendous guilt and responsibility to my family and yes even my wife.

 

I don't know what to do. Everyone is hurting. Separation is the only way I can think of that will allow me to find out where I really stand, how I really feel. The guilt that comes with abandoning my responsibilities is huge. I need some insight. Thanks

Edited September 9, 2013 by m1ke11
Edit: didn't realize smiley would end up in subject line. It was supposed to be in text

[trippi1432]

Did the counselor actually say you should leave your wife and put yourself first? If so, think you need a better counselor. It is okay to put yourself first, you do that by giving up control and getting people to step up to the plate on taking some responsibility.

 

How? That list of to-do stuff keeps getting longer and you are already working two jobs.....scale back on the TV service package and the Internet services and use the money to hire someone to do some things. Better yet, is painting on the list? Put a paintbrush, paint and drop cloth out and and tell the wife and daughter you can't wait to see the progress they have made when you get home. Tell them you don't mind getting the hard spots later.

 

Now, the EA's and the real question, well if you want her to hold to her changes, you will have to change too. It's not a one person fix. Are you able to change, able to lead your family by example with integrity? That's what good married men do. Men who don't want to be married see the advice "Put yourself first" exactly as you are interpreting it....time to be selfish and figure out what I want. As in woman, sex, single life, minimal responsibility.

Edited September 9, 2013 by trippi1432
Typo

[m1ke11]

Did the counselor actually say you should leave your wife and out yourself first? If so, think you need a better counselor. It is okay to put yourself first, you do that by giving up control and getting people to step up to the plate on taking some responsibility.

 

How? That list of to-do stuff keeps getting longer and you are already working two jobs.....scale back on the TV service package and the Internet services and use the money to hire someone to do some things. Better yet, is painting on the list? Put a paintbrush, paint and drop cloth out and and tell the wife and daughter you can't wait to see the progress they have made when you get home. Tell them you don't mind getting the hard spots later.

 

Now, the EA's and the real question, well if you want her to hold to her changes, you will have to change too. It's not a one person fix. Are you able to change, able to lead your family by example with integrity? That's what good married men do. Men who don't want to be married see the advice "Put yourself first" exactly as you are interpreting it....time to be selfish and figure out what I want. As in woman, sex, single life, minimal responsibility.

 

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Really what I want is to withdraw, ride my bike as much as possible, and have minimal responsibility while I figure things out. I've been at the helm of this ship for way to long without assistance from my wife and I'm burned out.

 

I told the counselor that when I decided that leaving was an option a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders and I instantly felt euphoric. So much so it was like a drug. That's really when I started riding my bike again, turned away the alcohol etc. I don't think it was the counselors idea to separate it was mine. the counselor has not discouraged me. She really feels its time to take care of myself and if that means separation then that's the right answer.

 

Is that how I come across? That I want sex, a girlfriend etc? Really I just want what every person wants, someone that wants them back. My wife has not been there for me or the kids and I'm starting to hold it against her even though she has her own issues.

[pteromom]

Really I just want what every person wants, someone that wants them back.

 

Sex is not a priority for everyone though. Does she "want you back" in other ways?

 

It sounds like you both need some clarity, and she probably needs therapy as well, so that she can deal with life better.

 

Marriage doesn't mean you have to give up your passions either. I think you gave up too much of yourself in the beginning, now the pendulum has swung far in the other direction (total freedom!!!), and it needs to fall back into the middle, where you take control of your own happiness, accept your wife for who she is, and work with her to make your relationship the most of what you each want as possible.

[m1ke11]

Sex is not a priority for everyone though. Does she "want you back" in other ways?

 

It sounds like you both need some clarity, and she probably needs therapy as well, so that she can deal with life better.

 

Marriage doesn't mean you have to give up your passions either. I think you gave up too much of yourself in the beginning, now the pendulum has swung far in the other direction (total freedom!!!), and it needs to fall back into the middle, where you take control of your own happiness, accept your wife for who she is, and work with her to make your relationship the most of what you each want as possible.

 

Sure I get that. The term want in this case can be used in a lot of ways. Regarding sex, I am a good looking guy, athletic build, lean etc yet she rejects me for so many years? Something's wrong there and I'm finally realizing its not me.

 

I really like your response and it makes a lot of sense. I really didn't make it super clear that I have invested a lot into working with my wife's anxiety and esteem issues.... And it's s battle I can't win. The only way it's going to work is if she wants it to work.

 

She's made those recent changes that I think are great but I still have a hard time believing them and she will not promise they are permenant.

 

Changes I can make? Really I'm blind to what I've done wrong except I should have recognized and brought these issues up earlier in our marriage. I am so protective of her I couldn't see hurting her with my complaints.

 

My emotional affairs I consider to be fallout as a result of our problems. I couldn't help them because I didn't even understand it was happening. Of course I ended that behavior as soon as I recognized what it was.

[m1ke11]

Let me clarify: I feel that if things were right in my marriage the emotional affairs wouldn't have happened. Is this wrong?

[pteromom]

Sure I get that. The term want in this case can be used in a lot of ways. Regarding sex, I am a good looking guy, athletic build, lean etc yet she rejects me for so many years? Something's wrong there and I'm finally realizing its not me.

 

Again, sex isn't a priority for everyone. If someone has low interest in sex, you can put the best looking person in the world in front of her, and she'd rather have lunch with him than sleep with him. Sex just isn't important. Low sex drive isn't "wrong" - it just is. The bigger question is how important is sex to YOU, and is your wife capable and willing to give you enough of what you want for you to be happy.

 

I really like your response and it makes a lot of sense. I really didn't make it super clear that I have invested a lot into working with my wife's anxiety and esteem issues.... And it's s battle I can't win. The only way it's going to work is if she wants it to work.

 

Very true. Is she willing to see a professional?

 

She's made those recent changes that I think are great but I still have a hard time believing them and she will not promise they are permenant.

 

How could anyone promise something like that? We all change constantly, and her actions have a lot to do with yours, and vice versa, as well as everything else going on in your lives.

[pteromom]

Let me clarify: I feel that if things were right in my marriage the emotional affairs wouldn't have happened. Is this wrong?

 

I think we all want to be seen for who we are, heard, accepted, understood, loved. If you don't feel you are getting that from your wife, it makes sense that you go out into the world craving it.

 

Of course, that isn't a reason to sell out your own integrity. In the end, it is still YOUR choice whether to enter an affair or not.

[m1ke11]

I think we all want to be seen for who we are, heard, accepted, understood, loved. If you don't feel you are getting that from your wife, it makes sense that you go out into the world craving it.

 

Of course, that isn't a reason to sell out your own integrity. In the end, it is still YOUR choice whether to enter an affair or not.

 

Exactly! Starve even the best person long enough and they'll steal some food.

 

Integrity is exactly why I ended it. Even though my recent Internet research shows a emotional affair is still an affair.

[Mr. Lucky]

I really didn't make it super clear that I have invested a lot into working with my wife's anxiety and esteem issues.... And it's s battle I can't win. The only way it's going to work is if she wants it to work.

 

What is your wife doing to get treatment for her issues? You're the last person that should be acting as her quasi-therapist. Some distance there would be helpful all around...

 

Mr. Lucky

[m1ke11]

I think we all want to be seen for who we are, heard, accepted, understood, loved. If you don't feel you are getting that from your wife, it makes sense that you go out into the world craving it.

 

Of course, that isn't a reason to sell out your own integrity. In the end, it is still YOUR choice whether to enter an affair or not.

 

Just re read your post, the part about being my choice. In my case, both times, it was by total accident and both were short lived. The first time maybe excusable, the second time I was so distraught I didn't know which way was up. The second was when my daughter was really, really struggling and I found a person to talk to about it. Later it became more. Still a lot less excusable because I should have recognized it sooner.

[m1ke11]

What is your wife doing to get treatment for her issues? You're the last person that should be acting as her quasi-therapist. Some distance there would be helpful all around...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

At the moment nothing. To her credit she recognizes the need. She hasn't followed through which is pretty typical for her unfortunately. Your right I'm not qualified to help her, but I can't just stand by now can I?

[pteromom]

Just re read your post, the part about being my choice. In my case, both times, it was by total accident and both were short lived. The first time maybe excusable, the second time I was so distraught I didn't know which way was up. The second was when my daughter was really, really struggling and I found a person to talk to about it. Later it became more. Still a lot less excusable because I should have recognized it sooner.

 

You don't have to explain yourself to me.

 

It's up to you to determine what you did and how you feel about it. No judgment from me.

 

I just think, as I said in my first response, that the pendulum is swinging the other direction right now. I don't think that is the best time to make a major life change. I would ride it out for a bit, keep riding your bike and making yourself happy, enjoy your wife's changes (permanent or not), encourage your wife to see a professional, and see what happens.

[m1ke11]

You don't have to explain yourself to me.

 

It's up to you to determine what you did and how you feel about it. No judgment from me.

 

I just think, as I said in my first response, that the pendulum is swinging the other direction right now. I don't think that is the best time to make a major life change. I would ride it out for a bit, keep riding your bike and making yourself happy, enjoy your wife's changes (permanent or not), encourage your wife to see a professional, and see what happens.

 

 

To me separation is a litmus test. If in a month I can't take it and run back to my family, or if I really start to become happier. I don't see it like my wife which is the last step before divorce. I've recently read that some therapists are saying separation can be good in a healthy marriage. (Doesn't mean it's true but there is discussion around it)

[pteromom]

To me separation is a litmus test. If in a month I can't take it and run back to my family, or if I really start to become happier. I don't see it like my wife which is the last step before divorce. I've recently read that some therapists are saying separation can be good in a healthy marriage. (Doesn't mean it's true but there is discussion around it)

 

I agree that it can be good to step away and see how you feel. I just don't know that this is the time to do it - when you have just reclaimed yourself and when your wife is trying to be a better wife. I still say you need to adjust to this "new normal" before deciding your next step.

[m1ke11]

I agree that it can be good to step away and see how you feel. I just don't know that this is the time to do it - when you have just reclaimed yourself and when your wife is trying to be a better wife. I still say you need to adjust to this "new normal" before deciding your next step.

 

Sure, but in the mean time I'm going nutso, can't sleep and feel I need some action. My wife is feeling the same and my daughter wanted this done before school (teen logic). The only time I'm at peace is after a really hard race . Don't understand why but its true.

 

I think your giving sound advice though and I appreciate it. Maybe ill just continue therapy and not take any action for a bit more.

 

I need to really figure out how to take care of myself... Not sure I understand that one and will bring it up in the next session.

[pteromom]

Sure, but in the mean time I'm going nutso, can't sleep and feel I need some action.

 

Is your wife up for sex? You say she is trying. Maybe a weekend at a nice hotel is in order so she can relax and just be a wife, away from her daily responsibilities.

 

My wife is feeling the same and my daughter wanted this done before school (teen logic).

 

Wanted what done? Your daughter knows you want to leave??

 

The only time I'm at peace is after a really hard race . Don't understand why but its true.

 

Because you've accomplished something difficult, being in complete control of both the process and the outcome. Something you are lacking in the rest of your life.

 

I need to really figure out how to take care of myself... Not sure I understand that one and will bring it up in the next session.

 

Good idea. You need an answer to that before you can even answer the next question (whether your wife is the right person for you). Right now, she's trying to fill YOUR role as well as hers, and that will never work.

[m1ke11]

Is your wife up for sex? You say she is trying. Maybe a weekend at a nice hotel is in order so she can relax and just be a wife, away from her daily responsibilities.

 

 

 

Wanted what done? Your daughter knows you want to leave??

 

 

 

Because you've accomplished something difficult, being in complete control of both the process and the outcome. Something you are lacking in the rest of your life.

 

 

 

Good idea. You need an answer to that before you can even answer the next question (whether your wife is the right person for you). Right now, she's trying to fill YOUR role as well as hers, and that will never work.

 

A lot here. My wife is doing anything she can. The problem now is I recognize it for what it is.... trying to save a marriage. It doesn't seem sincere? In addition I need reassurance that this change is real. After all it's so sudden and you don't turn around years of habits anxiety and self esteem problems in a month as she seemingly has done. Seems impossible and destined for failure.

 

My daughter knows something is up. It's been impossible to hide really. That's all she knows I think.

 

Going for a ride, will be back to visit this thread later tonight. Thanks for the help everyone.

[pteromom]

A lot here. My wife is doing anything she can. The problem now is I recognize it for what it is.... trying to save a marriage. It doesn't seem sincere? In addition I need reassurance that this change is real. After all it's so sudden and you don't turn around years of habits anxiety and self esteem problems in a month as she seemingly has done. Seems impossible and destined for failure.

 

Maybe. But she's trying. And she gets points for that in my book.

 

I don't think you can expect an overnight change, but at the same time, there is something to be said for "fake it until you make it", so if you go all-in and reward her for her changes, they just may "take". (with some ups and downs along the way).

 

Only one way to find out. One thing is for sure... optimism is more fun than pessimism.

[Yasuandio]

Hey guys, he's gone out for a ride. Got better things to do now.

 

Dude, when ya get back, check this.

 

You wanna separation to find yourself? Or whatever? And your wife right now is trying to institute the changes and requirements you've put on the table. There was a really great suggestion about taking her off for a romantic weekend somewhere, but you didn't respond to that idea. what about the suggestion to reward her in some way for her changes as suggested by another wise LS contributor? Oh, I think that may be when you needed to go for your bicycle ride.

 

You are thinking only about yourself. And that is not right, it is selfish. It is obvious you are trying to edge your way out of the marriage now that you are all fit and trim. It is possible for you to encourage you wife, but your head is in separation and EA mode (and also the part you probably haven't told us). This is just my personal opinion, but I don't really buy any of this EA BS, because people that are EAing, can be masterbating with their EA in their mind, too. I mean, these days, you can be intimate together on-line, live, and technically, it's an EA.

 

But when a guy admits to two EA's, and also admits to an unsatisfactory sex life, and also brags about how "buff" he is, there is little chance he is not having some sort of sex with his EA partners. That is just common sense.

 

You want a divorce, and you wanna look like the nice guy.

 

A separation to improve the relationship with your wife, whom you have little faith in? You said several times, her changes will not be permanent. What do you think will happen to her MOTIVATION, SELF ESTEEM, CONFIDENCE when her husband of 20 years takes a "separation sabbatical?". You know what that is, Sir? It is a direct sabotage on your wife's progress, so you can find justification in what you have already determined what you plan to do, and most likely, whom you plan to do it with.

 

Of course, your wife will flip out if you move out and leave the family. Her new found changes, (even if maintenance is an issue), will be the last thing on her mind. How in the world do you think she is going to respond to this news?

 

Done and done. You are looking for justification. But there are enough clues in what you've written to spell out your real story. And you do have a slight conscious, I would guess. Good luck trying to fool yourself. You just got unraveled, man, and I am normally very dead on. What happened to the great biker, Lance? As I recall, he was even known for beating the odds for testicular cancer. Am I right about that? But in the end, he was a big cheater, was it performance enhancing drugs? You never know, maybe that is why he had the testicle issue. I wonder if he stayed married? It must be really embarrassing to lose all you trophies and metals. Karma is a bitch. Yas

Edited September 10, 2013 by Yasuandio

[trippi1432]

It's classic....the partner that didn't have an affair gets buried to be sincere and take on all the issues and problems, the cause for the other's unhappiness. And it really doesn't matter if they do, the other person has checked out.

 

Don't forget that separation gives her time to evaluate what she wants out of life too, for her. Separation does create change within you....in everyone. So...it's a big step....one beyond just riding your bicycle when you could learn to set boundaries to get the time you need to follow your own pursuits in the safety of a healthy marriage. Doesn't sound to me like you have a healthy marriage right now.....you have a one-sided marriage where you "appear" to be calling the shots. Maybe she won't see the marriage as healthy either but find herself too. Stories like that here on LS too.

[Misadventure]

Did the counselor actually say you should leave your wife and put yourself first? If so, think you need a better counselor. It is okay to put yourself first, you do that by giving up control and getting people to step up to the plate on taking some responsibility.

 

How? That list of to-do stuff keeps getting longer and you are already working two jobs.....scale back on the TV service package and the Internet services and use the money to hire someone to do some things. Better yet, is painting on the list? Put a paintbrush, paint and drop cloth out and and tell the wife and daughter you can't wait to see the progress they have made when you get home. Tell them you don't mind getting the hard spots later.

 

Now, the EA's and the real question, well if you want her to hold to her changes, you will have to change too. It's not a one person fix. Are you able to change, able to lead your family by example with integrity? That's what good married men do. Men who don't want to be married see the advice "Put yourself first" exactly as you are interpreting it....time to be selfish and figure out what I want. As in woman, sex, single life, minimal responsibility.

 

 

Ding ding ding!!! Well said.

 

I'm so not going to sugar coat it.. you had two emotional affairs, go out acting like a married man should not but yet "I'm afraid I don't trust that her changes are for real or will last."

 

Take the ME out out team.

 

So you don't feel that rush of "in love" and like the newness of what the EA's gave you.... Its been 20 yrs!!!! Do the couches we all sit on look and feel the same way after 10 yrs, left alone 20?

 

Is your wife perfect? No...but your sh*t stinks too, it does not smell like roses.

 

Stop for a moment from looking at the mirror admiring your biceps and look at your wife, your family. Ok so you are older...you had the rush of "Oh daddy's still got it!"

 

If you think your wife is beautiful so will MANY men.. and if you are willing to separate from your wife, show her your LACK of commitment, why on earth should she stay with someone who is only think of himself and his appendage?

 

Sorry, bud, but the whole "reward" for her changes, she is not the dog in this twosome! Who are you to only be talking about what changes she needs to be making when you you are no model example of commitment?

 

Instead of trying to give her doggy treats for trying to be a good wife, while unknowingly its really much of your issues. how about giving yourself treats for not focusing and micro examining her but micro examining yourself and being the kind of husband a wife should have who is loyal.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Misadventure

[cozycottagelg]

I feel for you. The changes my husband is making does not seem sincere to me either. It's definitely to save the marriage.

 

I appreciate that fact that he is trying and that he cares, but it seems so ridiculous that I wanted these changes implemented for years, but NOW he is doing it.

[trippi1432]

I feel for both you and the OP Cozy, it's hard when the only way you can truly value and love someone is if they will change to be the person you want them to be. I do find it interesting how unhappy both you and this OP sounds with the people who are trying to please you both, but I understand that both of you are done with your spouses but afraid to let them go. It's punishment to the spouse who hasn't checked out of the relationship yet.

 

I was told to be sincere by a Divorce Busting Coach to get my husband to come back home....it worked, but I will admit that it was entirely fake. He was a hateful and emotionally abusive alcoholic....nothing I or the kids ever did for him was good enough and the only person he was concerned about making happy was himself. When we hoist all the blame over our shoulders to get it off of us, it typically lands squarely on your partner, that was how I spent 15 years, carrying the blame for his unhappiness, and me hoping that someday he would suddenly change into this loving, caring and emotionally supportive man.....fairy tale when you live with Jeckyll/Hyde.

 

And when he came back because I was being sincere, I was the one who was expected to do all the changing to save the relationship as he had no issues according to him. It's true that the person with the most power at this point is the one who doesn't care anymore. It really has nothing to do with your spouses and their attempts to be sincere and change....the unhappiness now is that the other spouse really doesn't care. Takes two people to change a relationship for the better or worse, you and your spouse will always be just who you are. They do not need to change to make you happy, what you both bring to the relationship needs to change to make IT happy.

[m1ke11]

This place blew up when I left!

 

Sure I don't mind the ridicule but what people don't understand here is all the effort I have invested with no result. Over the last five years I have been absolutely miserable. My daughter going off the deep end while my spouse watches "cops" and I'm trying my very best to work with my daughter? And I am the one to blame? Thats one example of a whole year of that kind of behavior. To me that's almost inexcusable.

 

Notice I said almost inexcusable. That brings me to the next part. After my ride (this is how I find my center btw and get rid of that over caffeinated anxiety feeling) I took my wife to dinner. I told her that she deserves every chance and all the support I can give her. Keep in mind this is after trying to support her for 15 years of anxiety, self esteem and a depression or two. Not to mention the last 5 years of disengagement.

 

So we had dinner, talked about it and made plans together for the week end out of town.

 

And btw- riding is what I do when I am distraught. It helps me, what's wrong with that? I'm taking care of myself after 5 years of drinking and not working out and I am proud of my accomplishment. What's wrong with that?