Soon 2BX

[ZxExD]

Hello!

 

I came upon this site, well, because I am going through a divorce and possibly find someone to chat with. Before even registering, I clicked on a thread here and started reading, and reading, and more reading and felt the need to post my advice and thanks for the insights the thread gave me. On that note, since I posted there I feel I need to tell everyone what I have gone through and what I am going through. Thanks Greg! I think your names Greg? Oh well, here ya go:

 

My name is Michael, I have an 8 year old son, been separated just over 4 years. She filed for divorce last October 9, 2012. I was kind of dumb founded, pissed, hurt, and the worse thing about it, I have no idea why I felt that way. Its not like I want her back after everything she did or didn't do. What did she do you ask? She made miserable! Maybe the true feeling I had when I found out she filed was Scared. Scared she would take my son away from me, Pissed that she would even try to take my son away from me, Hurt if she took my son away. It all goes with the circumstances.

 

Little does she know, I went to a Lawyer 3 years ago and he told me don't get a divorce right now, GET DOCUMENTATION! And that was great advice. You see, she has two other kids from a previous marriage and couldn't afford to take care of, or shall I say deal with them and keep Mikey, while living in a 2 bedroom Apartment with 3 kids, then moving into a 2 bedroom house with 3 kids. BTW, her kids were 14 and 16 when we separated. Mikey was 4. Will get into that later in more detail. My point is that for the past 4 years, Mikey has spent the majority of the time with me. I have paid for everything except his insurance which she has through her work. All his school, preschool, shoes, after school care, lunches, field trips, baseball, and everything else he has, bicycles, 4 wheeler, etc. I want him to have more than what I had growing up. But the most important thing I want for him is Structure, Direction, Stability, Manners, and a good education. I came up with a schedule when he was in Kindergarten so her and I didn't have to deal with each other. I keep him Monday night afterschool until I drop him off Friday at school. She picks him up Friday night and drops him off Monday morning at school. Is that fair?

 

Had to ask that last question because she does not think it is fair. Lets break it down like I have told her many times. I came up with this schedule because she continuously pisses me off by being mental, maybe bi polar, manic depressive, Nuts....who knows.

 

First, she would drop him off at school in before care at 6:30-7:00

a.m. and would pick him up around 5:00-6:00 p.m. I myself really don't want my son sitting in school for 10-11 hours a day. Plus it costs money for before care and after care that I pay for.

 

Second, if you calculate the waking hours that I spend with him and what she gets to spend with him, she gets to spend more time with him with this schedule.

 

I am going to leave it at that for now since it is Midnight and I have to get some rest for work tomorrow. I have alot more to say, if you all want to read it. Anyways, let the battle commence.

[2sunny]

Does she work?

 

I hope you aren't paying her money if the court hasn't ordered it.

[ZxExD]

Yes she works, and I do respect her for her work ethic. To add to that, I have worked my schedule and am self employed so I can be there for my son no matter what. For instance, when Mikey gets sick and has to stay home from school or gets sick in school, I am the one to take care of him so she doesn't have to take off work.

 

I do not give her money, and am going to do anything to get primary custody of my son. And if she has to pay child support, I am planning on putting it into a trust fund for college or to start his life when he turns 18.

 

Will fill in some more blanks later, like the dead beat her first husband was, how he died, her two kids now 18 and 20 and still live with her, what I did for them before separated, and what became of them after.

[Downtown]

She continuously pisses me off by being mental, maybe bi polar, manic depressive, Nuts....

Michael, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your son are dealing with. Also ask what the chances are she will pass it on to your 8 year old son. When drug use is not an issue, the two most common causes of temper tantrums and mood changes are bipolar disorder (as you suspect) and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Only a professional can determine whether your W has a full blown disorder. Spotting the red flags, however, is not difficult because there is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, inability to trust, and verbal abuse.

 

I am not a psychologist. I am simply speaking based on my experience in living with a BPDer exW for 15 years and caring for a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found twelve clear differences between the two disorders.

 

One difference is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. A bipolar-1 sufferer swings between mania and depression and a bipolar-2 sufferer swings between depression and normality (with very little or no mania). In contrast, a BPDer flips back and forth between loving you and devaluing you.

 

A second difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days.

 

A third difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).

 

A fourth difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.

 

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

 

A sixth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

 

A seventh difference is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger.

 

An eight difference is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

 

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

 

A ninth difference is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings.

 

A tenth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Sadly, this lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when people cannot trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.

 

An eleventh difference is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by blaming every misfortune on the spouse.

 

Finally, a twelfth difference is that, although bipolar sufferers are emotionally unstable, they generally are not immature or childlike. BPDers, in contrast, are so immature that their emotional development typically is frozen at about age four. This is why they have a very fragile self image and have difficulty controlling their emotions.

 

Yet, despite these twelve clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that these two disorders often occur together. A recent study found that half of the people suffering from bipolar-I in the prior year also have full-blown BPD.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Downtown

[ZxExD]

Michael, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your son are dealing with. Also ask what the chances are she will pass it on to your 8 year old son. When drug use is not an issue, the two most common causes of temper tantrums and mood changes are bipolar disorder (as you suspect) and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Only a professional can determine whether your W has a full blown disorder. Spotting the red flags, however, is not difficult because there is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, inability to trust, and verbal abuse.

 

I am not a psychologist. I am simply speaking based on my experience in living with a BPDer exW for 15 years and caring for a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found twelve clear differences between the two disorders.

 

One difference is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. A bipolar-1 sufferer swings between mania and depression and a bipolar-2 sufferer swings between depression and normality (with very little or no mania). In contrast, a BPDer flips back and forth between loving you and devaluing you.

 

A second difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days.

 

A third difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).

 

A fourth difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.

 

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

 

A sixth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

 

A seventh difference is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger.

 

An eight difference is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

 

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

 

A ninth difference is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings.

 

A tenth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Sadly, this lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when people cannot trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.

 

An eleventh difference is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by blaming every misfortune on the spouse.

 

Finally, a twelfth difference is that, although bipolar sufferers are emotionally unstable, they generally are not immature or childlike. BPDers, in contrast, are so immature that their emotional development typically is frozen at about age four. This is why they have a very fragile self image and have difficulty controlling their emotions.

 

Yet, despite these twelve clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that these two disorders often occur together. A recent study found that half of the people suffering from bipolar-I in the prior year also have full-blown BPD.

 

 

I have no idea what she has because both BPD and BiPolar fit her to a T. I always though it was the worst PMS I have ever seen! And it usually happens around that time but not always. One little question, and she would blow a gasket. Sometimes she would just go off and won't stop. I would have to leave or it happened so much that I finally would get so mad I would say something mean and she would finally shut up and go away. She would be mad for a couple days, wouldn't talk. But then the scary part, after a couple days, she would act like nothing ever happened. Literally, she would act like it didn't happen and none of the hurtful things, or the screaming at me never happened. Then the next month rolled around and WHAM!

 

But, not sure it was all tied to that. Take the day she finally moved out. Its a Saturday, in the morning I had to run to a job site for an hour or so, I come home and my son comes walking up to me crying with half his face red, he proceeds that his brother hit him. I walk in side, and POLITELY ask what happened? Sure enough, she exploded. I turned around, walked out and unplugged the power to the house and left. Why? For two reasons, I was the one paying the $350 a month power bill, and I knew it would piss her off. Made it as far as the gas station when she called and left me a mean voicemail and I needed to go back there pick up my son. I did just that and Jr. And I went to work until midnight because I dreaded going home to her. I even thought about getting a Hotel, but decided to go home. When I got home, you couldn't imagine how relieved I was she was gone! Three days later she let me know she got an apartment.

 

There were so many times before that and after that she would just go ballistic. She made me so miserable.

[Downtown]

One little question, and she would blow a gasket.

Michael, you are describing temper tantrums that are triggered -- in seconds -- by trivial events. If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she is filled with enormous anger and shame she has been carrying since early childhood. You therefore do not have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of the anger that is always there.

Sometimes she would just go off and won't stop.

If she is a BPDer, the rages and hissy fits likely will last 4 or 5 hours (rarely as long as two days).

But then the scary part, after a couple days, she would act like nothing ever happened.

You are describing "black-white thinking," another trait of BPD. If your W has strong BPD traits, you should be seeing B-W thinking (described below) together with most of the following behaviors:

 

• 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
  
• 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
  
• 3. Controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
  
• 4. Irrational jealousy and lack of trust;
  
• 5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you,;
  
• 6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about the next day;
  
• 7. Low self esteem;
  
• 8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
  
• 9. Fear of abandonment or being alone;
  
• 10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
  
• 11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
  
• 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
  
• 13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) -- for the first six months -- that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
  
• 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
  
• 15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
  
• 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
  
• 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
  
• 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
  

If most of those traits sound very familiar, I suggest you read my four posts describing BPD traits in Rebel's thread. Those posts start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. One such resource is the "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD" forum at BPDfamily.com. Take care, Michael.

[revitup]

Zx and Downtown, Whoa! You are describing my STBXWW to an absolute tee!

 

18 yrs married,3rd time leaving (my thread is on here) and it's always that she is a "victim" as well.

 

Downtown you have just written my life's story as to my STBXWW as plainly as it could ever be written.I am amazed at the fact that every single distinction in the BPD description is in my STBXWW!Every one!

 

Anyway,what I know is that after several different MCs and therapists and my own Psych Doc (I am ADHD and see the Dr for Ritalin every 3 months) it's very hard to explain to any Dr or professional what it is you're going through.My W is a pro at manipulation and persuasion.She will have the Dr believing you are the one that is sick.

 

My W said she wasn't going to take her meds anymore,because it made her put up with my Cr4p!She said that the meds made her "not be herself".This woman was treated like a queen for 18 yrs.STBXWW didn't have to work or worry about finances.I am as loyal as the day is long and would at one time,have given my life to spare hers.

 

I am just saying that there is no telling what will happen,I know that sounds like a non-answer but I have tried all that is humanly possible with results the same as yours.

 

I was always either on a pedestal or the Devil incarnate!Like you,I saw her throw the facts into the trash can and go with her "feelings".It didn't matter if the feelings had any basis in reality or not.On some mornings I would be afraid to wake up and ask her how she slept.The reason was that if she had a dream that I was cheating,she would wake up angry at me and tell me that the dream meant that I must be cheating!According to her I was sleeping with every woman in the world.It didn't matter if they were ugly,100 yrs old or had a horn growing out of their head.

 

My STBXWW was treated like a dog by her mother as a small child and the men around her were awful to her when she was a child.

 

Our regular Dr said that my STBXWW once visited him for one hour and told him for 55 minutes how great I was at everything,then for the next five minutes told him how I would one day (according to her thinking) just kill her in her sleep!

 

The Dr told me to look up "projection" saying that the thoughts she had of me doing these awful things were actually hers but she couldn't bring herself to believe that she would have such awful thoughts,therefore the thoughts must somehow originate from me.

 

Anyway,today she has been gone since Aug 15,2012 and my DD14 is with me and not going back.She is all over C/L soliticing men and bragging to our DD14 about them while showing the DD14 the naked pics!She is now drinking hard (she didn't drink in 18 yrs together as she is alcoholic and was at an earlier age on crack and was an escort for a short time) she knows that she will drink and get naked with anyone that is around.

 

The woman is beautiful and convincing.She is charming and loving when she is not "manic".Right now she is just living in a fantasy world.She called last night to see how my visit with the DD14 was going (DD14 is here with me for holiday break-she doesn't know DD14 isn't going back) and acted as if nothing is wrong.She has acted as if nothing happened at all.I think she believed that I would chase after this time as I did the other two times.I was prepared this time though.

 

I loved this woman but now I really don't know why anymore.She had a spell on me or something.I actually lost myself trying to "save" her.

 

I will end this rant by saying that I am better now than I have been in 18 yrs.I will say that reading Downtown's post has given me added strength in my decision making process.Thank you Downtown,I thought I was alone.I actually had started to question my own ability to think through the problems while with her.

 

Read my post and see what lies ahead if your (Zx) wife is like mine.

Wife Left 18 yrs I'm OK is my post.

 

 

Good luck in this,it's hard but it's easier with all of those here who have helped me.

 

REVITUP

[ZxExD]

Hello,

 

I posted here because, I have been lonely, nobody to talk to, going through a very rough time, love my son, to see what everyone else is going through.

 

I am doing all this through my phone. Things are getting ready to change and I will be getting internet. I will then start a new ZxExD. This thread will inform everyone what I have went through, what I am going through, and what I am going to do. I appreciate everyone's insight, good or bad. I am not perfect, just alone. I really do like this sight and have went to see other posts. There is alot of information and fun here.

 

When I post my story, I hope you all can give me alot of advice. My mediation day Is January 31. Still have to go to parent council class and go through all my documentation. This really sucks! I have been doing my best.

 

Michael

[Downtown]

Michael, I look forward to reading your story when you get the Internet connection up and running -- and thus can start typing on a keyboard. I encourage you to keep it in this same thread so we don't lose the history of information you've already provided. I also encourage you to identify as many of the behavioral traits (listed in post 6 above) as seem to apply.

[revitup]

I too am interested in the whole story.

 

This BPD thing is just plain evil!There really isn't a way to explain it to a normal person who hasn't lived it for themselves.It doesn't even seem real to me at this point and I have lived it!

 

All I can say is that you better be prepared for anything and I do mean anything!I look forward to your posts.Good luck and stay strong.

 

REVITUP

[ZxExD]

Can't keep my mind from thinking, can't slow it down. Sleep I keep telling myself. So tired but everything flowing through my head. I picture court day, what she is going to say. Her witnesses, her kids, her friends. What evidence does she have? How can I disprove all of them? Everything I been through the last 10 years. What she did, what she didn't do, what her kids did and didn't, how her own kids turned out, what I have done and didn't do for them. I have overwhelming evidence and going through it all in my head over and over and over. There is no way she will be able to take my son from me.

 

Good nights, but mostly bad as far as sleep goes. This is by far the worst part of this whole ordeal. When I finally do fall asleep, I don"t want to get up. But I have to get my boy to school and then off to work. Work is great for getting my mind off things, but its been hard to stay focused sometimes. I am trying my best.

 

Getting internet tomorrow finally. Good or bad? Probably will lose more sleep typing up everything that's been going through my mind.

[ZxExD]

Sorry I have been gone so long. Been going through hell. I will be back to give you an update on what has been going on. I am going to Deposition tomorrow and court is set up for June 21, 2013. Alot has happened since the last time we posted. Talk to you soon, ZeD

[Downtown]

Michael, welcome back to the LS forum! You've been promising to write us the more detailed story since last December. I look forward to reading what you've got to say, including what happened at the Jan 31 mediation and what occurs at tomorrow's deposition. I assume that, by now, you've got your Internet connection up and running and now are able to type on your keyboard, not the mobile phone.

[ZxExD]

Taking a break to fill you in. I was writing questions and comments for my lawyer. She asked me to write them for the Deposition tomorrow. I been writing since yesterday and almost done.

 

I was doing really good up until the middle of January. Was working pretty steady, Then got sick for a couple of weeks. From there, things had gotten pretty bad, got very depressed, Mikey got sick. I got sick again. Truck broke down. Dropped an axle on my foot. Haven`t really worked in the past 4 months. And being stressed over this divorce. Anyways, made that long story short and now hopefully getting back on my feet. Still a long way to go. Everything is in pawn, title loan on the truck, and I have barely kept things going.

 

The mediation stunk, I tried to work it out with her and was willing to go 50/50 with me being primary with the stipulations that her son Tyler would have no contact with Mikey, No Pitbulls in the house, No smoking around Mikey, and No texting and driving. She didn`t like those stipulations so I left. But I got her now.

 

She is suppose to get Mikey Friday nights and drop him off at school Monday mornings. She has been texting me if I could take care of Mikey because she has to work late and has to work Saturday morning. She has done this for years. So check this out, the Friday before Easter she does the same thing, I tell her he has baseball practice the next day at 12 and that I will meet her afterwards. There I am sitting on the couch with Mikey sleeping next to me, I have bad insomnia from all this. My phone rings and its 3 am Saturday Morning, I look and its her number so I figured something is wrong. I answer it and can hear her crying like she was in pain so I started yelling her name to try to get her attention. For a couple of minutes I tried to no avail. Course, this action woke Mikey up and he was worried. A few minutes later after listening to this I figure out she is drunk off her ass and she butt dialed me. She had fallen and hurt her wrist. She was with some co workers on the other side of town from where she worked. Over heard her saying stupid crap, singing at the top of her voice to music they were listening to, wanting to have sex with the guy driving and the next minute calling him an A-hole. This went on for over an hour. I told Mikey to go to bed but he was to worried and ended up staying there. I had put the phone on speaker so I could listen while I looked for a way to record this. I finally grabbed my old Droid 2 phone and hit record and it did. I recorded the last 12 minutes of the call catching the stupidity, her addmitting she is drunk, F-uped, where she ended up. wanting to go camping, still singing at the top of her voice. The got out of the car at Taco bell where she could barely get out because of her injuries, and she lost a shoe. I waited and when they got back into the car, the phone hung up. I texted her and told her Mikey wouldn`t be coming over anytime soon until I talked to my lawyer and to have fun with Jimmy.

 

Later Saturday, I was on my way to take Mikey to practice and she started. She stated she was going into work at 3 am so she could get out early to get Mikey and she had fallen. Her friends from work was trying to take her to the hospital. I told her Mikey heard some of the call and wasn`t very happy and didn`t want to go over there. This is where she went off on me and tried to put the blame on me. And it was my fault, and I shouldn`t have listened to the call, and swears she was at work. So I drop the bomb on her and tell her I recorded it! Now leave me alone. She kept on and wanted to get Mikey so he could go to the hospital with her and on, and on. I told her to leave me alone.

 

So that evening, I had to sneak over to the neighbors and give them money to go get Mikey an Easter basket since he was going to be with me easter morning now. I have such great neighbors. Later that night, I went out and got the basket out of my truck where I told them to put it. Mikey and I stayed up late playing video games, so we slept in Easter Morning. i got up about 11:30. walked out into the living room and saw the screen door propped open, opened the front door and there was another Easter Basket. I was like, wow I really do have some great neighbors. Asked a couple of them and they had no idea. A week later, Saturday morning I get an email from Lawyer stating that Her lawyer is going to file a motion with the court to address some pressing issues. She also forwarded the email Her lawyer had sent Stating, "We have a fairly pressing issue. My client advises that your glient is not letting her see Mikey at all. And, my client is very concerned about the fact that your client pulled a gun on my client`s 18 year old son, Tyler on Easter morning, while parenting Mikey."

 

This made me see RED! It went on to say,

 

My client was working the Friday/Saturday prior to Easter, and hurt her hand in a fall. She had to get someone to drive her, and got a coworker to do so, but interim accidentally miscalled your client. Your client recieved the call, and after he realized it was a miscall, continued to listen in and record the call all in the presence of the minor child. The call made him so angry, for no reason, an he took whatever he heard out of context, and sent my clent text stating that she would not be seeing Mikey any longer at this time, until further notice. She asked to see Mikey on Easter, since she had an Easter basket for Mikey, and your client refused. So, she sent Tyler with the basket, and when Tyler got to your client`s home, Mr. ______ greeted him with a loaded gun."

 

It goes on to say that she was going to file a motion, that I shouldn`t be primary parent because of these actions, on and on. Needless to say, nothing became of this because I have her by her balls. LOL Also, My neighbor witnessed Tyler delivering the basket at 9:30. This really did make me upset because of her lies and Tyler is not to be no where near my house.

 

Well, thats enough for now, wil check back here from time to time for the next 24 hours to see if anyone posts. Also let you know how the Depositions go tomorrow, they start at 1:30. Can`t wait for that! Not.

 

Bye for Now,

 

ZeD

[Downtown]

Michael, thanks for giving us such a detailed update. I'm sorry to hear that the mediation in January was a complete bust. But that was not unexpected, if your STBXW has strong BPD traits as you suspect. BPDers generally are only interested in creating drama that (in their minds) validates their status as "The Victim." They therefore have little interest in finding solutions or making compromises. On top of that, they typically are very vindictive and mean when you've chosen to leave them.

 

Recording the call, by the way, was very smart. During my divorce of my BPDer exW, I recorded all of our phone calls. It also is helpful to have a VAR in your pocket when in her presence.

[ZxExD]

Note to self and all of you, do not drink a pot of coffee before going into depostitions. Ugh, not sure if I did good or bad. They questioned my actions of recording her butt dial phone call back in my face. Said I was more concerned about recording the call than taking care of my son who over heard some of the call. Said I was to worried about recording it than trying to put my son to bed. My lawyer got onto me about some of my answers and my aggressiveness. I told her it was the coffee and I was more focused on S2BXW and the way she raised her kids. I took the fight to about her instead of Mikey. Half way through her Depo, I had to pee so bad. I have to remember its about Mikey. I have been to busy trying to show her flaws that I forgot the most important thing.

 

On the other hand, I caught her in several lies and can`t wait to go to court and see herself caught in these lies. I can`t wait for the judge to hear the phone call where she admitted she was drunk, when she was suppose to be working. She said she only had one shot of whiskey after her co worker picked her, who was partying and drinking before he picked her up. My lawyer did an ok job, but I think both lawyers don`t want to have any part of this because they both we are broke as all get out. My my lawyer also messed up royally. Before the Depo, I gave her a sign in and out sheet that is used for Mikey`s aftercare at school. That was my ace in the hole. We walked into the Deposition and there sitting right on top, that she said we are going to save this was the sign out sheet. I was so pissed, there went my ace in the hole. But no biggy, it just proves everyday I picked up Mikey for the past 3 years. Man, I wish I had the money to really prove the woman she is. How she already messed up her other two children`s life. Have I told you about Tyler? His baby? Tattoos? Not finishing school? Suspensions? Getting arrested? A story in itself.

 

I did find out one thing today that I didn`t know, She actually got laid by someone else twice! I was happy about that. ANyways, I will come back on in a few, Mikey is here bugging me.

[ZxExD]

I guess I am just talking to myself. I really do appreciate Downtown welcoming back. I have been going through alot and was expecting a little more here. People to repond and talk to. I know its been only 2 days, and I have been busy dealing with things that I haven`t checked the rest of the site, but I figured people here would have at least said something.

[Downtown]

I guess I am just talking to myself. I really do appreciate Downtown welcoming back. I have been going through alot and was expecting a little more here. People to repond and talk to.

Michael, I suspect that Rev will be joining the discussion again shortly -- he just returned from the beach yesterday. Please keep in mind that members starting new threads usually do so for one of two reasons: (a) to vent their feelings and hopefully receive affirmation or (b) to obtain insight into their partner's inexplicable behavior.

 

So far, your thread mainly has followed path (a), which is evident in the way you provide great detail about the ways in which you've been abused and disrespected by your W -- and also is evident in the way you provide minimal response to the suggestions Rev and I have made. In post #6, for example, I identified 18 common traits of BPD and also suggested you read my description of these traits in Rebel's thread. And I invited you to discuss with me any of these traits that struck a chord or rung a bell. Similarly, Rev said that his W exhibited nearly identical behavior and invited you to take a look at his thread. However, you never responded to either of those two posts.

 

Well, not responding to our suggestions is perfectly fine. It is up to you to decide what your needs are at this point in time and what suggestions seem helpful. I mention your lack of responses only to explain why, when an OP is here to vent, he typically will get only a few responses -- because other members realize that he mainly wants to vent, not participate in a detailed response to another member's suggestions.

 

Of course, your emotional needs may have changed greatly since you started this thread last December. If you now would like to do less venting and more information gathering, I suggest that you try responding in greater detail to member suggestions. I wrote quite a bit about BPD traits in note #6 and at the link I provided. Because I've never met your W, I cannot know whether that discussion about BPD traits is relevant unless you discuss how some of the traits apply strongly and others don't apply at all.

 

If you don't believe that the BPD traits strongly apply in your situation, please say so in order to get that issue off the table. I certainly do not want to "hijack" your thread with a discussion of traits that are not pertinent to your W's issues. Moreover, other members may be reluctant to offer alternative possibilities -- based on their own experiences -- if they believe that BPD traits may be a likely explanation.

[ZxExD]

Sorry, just miserable amd have not had the time to go and look at the things you told me about. Yes, I have been venting because that is what this was about. Things have changed, and I need to look at the thread that actually got me here and made me care. Sometimes, you just look beyond what is in front of you. I am trying to reach out, but it takes time. You and nobody here has the same thoughts I have. Things will get better, they always have. I just wanted someone to talk to, a friend, maybe two or three. Sorry I was venting, but I have no one else to talk to through these rough times. And I like Rev, and many people here. I am just getting started again and moving forward with circumstances. It sucks picking yourself up from the dumps. Stressed out, Depressed, Broke, no future in sight. But, I wil do it one way or another for my son. We lived in a tent once, we can do it again. I have alot of issues now, more than when I started posting here. Nobody here knows me. Here`s a clue.

 

I haven`t worked in the past four months. Everything I worked hard for is in the Pawn Shop to pay bills and put food on the table. My truck is going to be Repo`D Wednesday because I can`t pay the title loan I took out 2 months ago. The only reason I have power is because I had to go get assistance. I had to pawn my sons PS3 that I got him last Christmas from Santa to get gas and pay my phone bill to keep it on in case someone called me to work. Which happened. it was only $100, but I went and took care of him hanging his insulation in his basement. I am feeling real bad right now and do not know how to talk here. I am ready to say, Why the hell am I even here talking to people I don`t even know telling them my problems?

 

Yes, I was venting. Thinking someone would care. Getting my frustrations out, to maybe find a friend. I just got back here and I know it will take some time and maybe I coud help someone else out, but it doesn`t seem like I have nobody to help me. Yes Downtown, I appreciate you responding and I did talk to my lawer today about BPD. She told me everybody is looking to find something wrong with there S2BX. It makes perfect sense to me for what you have said, but doesn`t help my case. Well, maybe it did a little. I don`t know what to say here. I was just looking for some advice and friends to help through this. I am going to go and look through the forum and read other persons problems, it might just make me feel better if I can give them some advice.

[Downtown]

Sorry I was venting, but I have no one else to talk to through these rough times.

Michael, there is no need to apologize about venting. A large share of LS members come here to do only that. It helps them to get in touch with their feelings and deal with those feelings -- instead of burying them deep inside where they will cause problems later. So, if you want to vent, you came to the right place.

 

I only mentioned your venting because, until you attract the attention of someone experiencing very similar issues, you won't get very many responses. That is, there are only so many ways a person can say "I'm so sorry to hear that." Eventually, however, you WILL attract the attention of someone who is experiencing your issues and who will be very vocal about it.

 

Until then, I encourage you to continue posting about the abusive things your W is doing to you -- and about your struggle to take care of your son. By sharing your experiences with others, you not only are helping yourself get in touch with your feelings. You also are very likely helping many others -- both members and lurkers -- with similar problems. In case you've not noticed, the hit count on your thread is already well over 700.

Getting my frustrations out, to maybe find a friend. ... it doesn`t seem like I have nobody to help me.

It just seems that way. Please don't give up on us. You are in such a dire situation that your emotions will be swinging wildly throughout the day.

Yes Downtown, I appreciate you responding and I did talk to my lawer today about BPD. She told me everybody is looking to find something wrong with there S2BX.

If your S2BX has strong BPD traits, your lawyer is right that there is little chance of you using it in court (during the custody battle). The folks who've had success with that had evidence to indicate that the BPDer spouse was neglecting or abusing the child and, based on that evidence, the judge ordered that the spouse be examined by a psychologist.

 

For that approach to work, it is important to have evidence to show to the psychologist because your S2BX would be on her best behavior when around him. One way of collecting the evidence is to have a VAR (voice activated recorder) in your pocket whenever she is around your son -- in case she says anything verbally abusive or starts screaming at you in front of him.

It makes perfect sense to me for what you have said, but doesn`t help my case.

True, but I wasn't trying to help your legal case. Rather, I was trying to help you put everything in perspective. If you've been living with a BPDer for several years, there is a good chance you are confused and very disoriented.

 

Indeed, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the American diagnostic manual, BPD is the one that is most notorious for making the non-BPD partners and spouses feel like they may be going crazy. It is very disorienting to live with a spouse who -- in ten seconds -- can flip from loving you to hating you -- and then, a few days or weeks later, flip back just as quickly.

 

That said, I have no way of knowing whether your S2BX has strong BPD traits. You've been too overwhelmed, since December, to be willing to discuss it in any detail. Importantly, because I don't even know that it is relevant, I don't want to push you into discussing it. Because you are the one who is in so much pain, I want you to set the agenda for your own thread. If you only want to vent, then you should be doing exactly that.

 

At some point in the future, however, you likely are going to want to get a much better understanding of what is causing your S2BX's abusive behavior, temper tantrums, and vindictiveness. If she is Mikey's mother, there is some risk that she can pass her issue onto her son genetically -- if she has strong traits of BPD, NPD, or bipolar disorder.

 

Moreover, if she somehow gets partial custody of Mikey, there is some risk she could pass her disorder onto him through emotionally abusive treatment. Hence, until you are able to afford to obtain professional advice from a psychologist, it would be good to learn how to spot the warning signs for these disorders.

[revitup]

Hey Michael,

 

Been there done that.I actually had a way of sending the power bill check to the Auto loan company and the auto loan check to the electric company.....this would buy me a few extra days so I could pull a miracle and pay them both!!!!

 

I too am familiar with job sites (real estate development) 10 yrs.It has it's ups and down,fresh chicken one day and feathers and feet the next,when you are FLUSH,all is good.When you're broke all is bad.It's just life my friend.I know you do not see it today but no matter what's happening in your life (all of our lives) right now....IT WILL CHANGE!It can get worse,it can get better.It will change.

 

I remember being so embarrassed by going to a pawn shop for the first time.Not a good feeling.It was not the person I was at all.Stuff happens.

 

Now,for your crazy azz wife.She is showing you alot,you are missing it though.I would bet she intentionally "butt dialed you".Was your number the last one she called earlier that evening?I bet not.

 

These BPD'r types are great at controlling your thoughts.She KNOWS that good ol' Michael will go crazy at that call.It's simply a way of getting a response from you at her command.She has (I bet) always been able to call you with a sad story and get every dollar you have and have you come running at the first sign of "danger".You are or maybe were her "knight in shining armor".

 

Let me SWAG about a few things.....

1.All of the men in her past relationships were awful,she was abused by the bad boys she "trusted".

 

2.Her family just doesn't get her,she is just not like them.

 

3.You have been alienated from your friends and colleagues.

 

4.If you are on a call (to anyone) you must be up to something.

 

5.Many times she just wants "you to hold her".Don't say nothing..."just hold her".And keep the questions to yourself.

 

6.Everything you do is made to be somehow suspicious in some way,even asking you stupid questions like,do you really care about ME at all?This after you bust your rear end and give everything you own to please her and provide her with everything she wants.

 

7.She has NO hobbies at all that she has consistently held to herself.She will make a friend and all of a sudden she is into whatever that new girlfriend thinks is important.Her friend's hobby is now hers too.

 

8.She thinks she is fat or ugly even though she is hotter than fire.

 

9.She feels ALL women are evil and out to get you away from her.

 

10.She thinks you are just too sweet and naive so you just do not see what these women are REALLY doing.

 

11.She feels and tells you that you deserve better.She is just not good enough for you.

 

12.Monthly "woman" time is pure hell around her and you would like to hide in the closet for a week.She is the devil himself.

 

13.Just before this monthly time she is a sexual animal and loves to "be on top".

 

14.Mostly she just wants to get right to sex...no foreplay.Just get it and roll over.

 

15.These things were all different "in the first years" of your relationship.

 

16.You get the old "don't be home when I get back and don't be gone either".Meaning you just can't win,no matter what you do.

 

17.There are times when she gives you compliments for absolutely nothing.You feel great when she does.

 

18.Your great feelings about those compliments....are short lived and you are knocked off that pedestal in a violent outburst of negative comments and demeaning shots at you by her.

 

19.The next day....she acts as though it never happened.

 

20.You now get the "if then" comments.If we had this or that then I would be happy,she says.Sooner or later you have spent your money on these things and still she is not happy.

 

21.Education is soooooo important to her.Afterall "she needs it to be able to provide for herself and your son.....in case something was to happen to your ability to make money".Including what if "you died",how would she provide.

 

22.She never finishes the education you paid for to get.Something is just not working for her.It is ALL your fault when she blows it though.

 

23.All of the men she is ever around are either "little boys or old men".It doesn't matter if the little boy is 30 yrs old....he is still just a little boy she tells you.If they are 50 yrs old they are old men.Nothing to see here,no worry at all.

 

24.She tells you "I am not looking for a man,I just need to find myself and have some time alone to sort it all out,I really am not interested in men at all".

 

25.She will jump at agreeing with the comments and thoughts of some other person about a subject that you have already told her numerous times,only having been told you do not know what you are talking about (when it was your idea).But now that someone else said it....it is better than sliced bread.

 

26.You now feel that you have "to prove how she is" to everyone you can.You have to somehow show them in recordings or video maybe,because they "just won't believe how she REALLY is".

 

27.You feel that you just do not matter now,she has shown you how you REALLY are.You feel that it was her that made you great and her that somehow magically gave you some sort of superhuman strength to accomplish your goals.That (without her) you are somehow less of a person.

 

28.You secretly hope to fall asleep and wake up to a world where this was all "just a bad dream".

 

29.You (having always slayed the dragon and saved the princess) can surely pull this one out of the fire too,you think.

 

30.Michael,you feel that you are strong enough to take all of the heat and shield her from the REAL WORLD.

 

There is more .Michael,you need to listen to Downtown and others here and wake the heck up!You got a bad one.You know it deep down and you are avoiding the inevitable.You hold on to everything toooooo long.

 

You can't fix this one and are going to simply hurt yourself more and more in the future if you keep the optimism train running as to her.

 

Michael,So what if they take your truck?So what if they take everything you have?SO what if she is gone?

 

And also,You know it tears you apart thinking about her telling that dude she wants to screw him!You care,you do not want to think about that.Do not blow smoke up me about that being a good thing....it damn near tore your heart out.

 

She deserves the results of her actions with this man.He is in for something he will want to run from sooner or later.She will hold jobs,she will not have relationships that last....except if she has a "caregiver" like you or me!

 

I will never accept the caregiver role again.You shouldn't either.

 

Think for a second here.You are self employed,you take risks and know that you can make money when others go bust!You did it before and you will do it again!

 

Now,it is your choice today.She will be very happy to know you are sitting at home crying in your panties right now.Down in the dumps and broke as well as broken as a man.Do not give her that.

 

Michael,if you had a 100k in your account and a cool new honey on your arm,you would forget the nightmare that she is to you.She would be "someone you used to know" and nothing more.

 

So.....get up off that freaking couch,throw away ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that is hers or reminds you of her right now!

 

Stop analyzing your way out of this crappy marriage and go slay the real dragon....money.You need some money!You know tha tit will be waiting for you when you get off the couch!

 

You also know that nobody wants to be around a loser,you don't even like losers!

 

Michael,you are not a loser,you married one.Think about that.

 

You cannot help those who choose to be losers.You can't fix a brain,if you could,you would not be on a JOBSITE!

 

Do what you do best and get some contracts and make some money...now.

 

Okay,the lawyer you have.Lawyers ALWAYS make it look as an impossible task to win.That's how they suck you dry.If they made it look easy,you would not see the value in their services.She is simply trying to get to an easy end and look good while getting paid.You did nothing wrong in recording the hussy on a drunken call,forget about it.

 

Also,having been in courtrooms and civil suits a lot,I will tell you this......

What YOU think is admissible and important in court,usually has nothing to do with what ACTUALLY makes it into the courtroom.The main reason you win or lose will be twofold.

 

1.The lawyer's connections to the system and especially her connection to the judge!

 

2.Your documentation.

 

Michael,I do care,so do all those here.It's just that nobody really knows what the real truth is for you.You will have to get your head straight and let us know what the real deal here is all about.

 

Do it!

 

REVITUP

[revitup]

Sorry about the typos ......I do not proofread!I jus type and let you figure it all out.

 

REVITUP

[ZxExD]

Have to answer Rev's post before I continue with an update.

 

You were spot on, almost on everything except these few.

 

"8.She thinks she is fat or ugly even though she is hotter than fire."

-LMAO, at first, she wasn't so bad, but through the years, OMG.

Both inside and out she got uglier and fatter.

 

"13.Just before this monthly time she is a sexual animal and loves to "be on top".

-Again, She would never get on top, It was to much like work for her. I had to think of someone else to make it more enjoyabe, Thats bad.

 

"And also,You know it tears you apart thinking about her telling that dude she wants to screw him!You care,you do not want to think about that.Do not blow smoke up me about that being a good thing....it damn near tore your heart out!"

-It didn't tear my heart out, I have zero feelings for her and not in denile. I actually told the my lawyer after the deposition that It was nice that she got laid twice in 5 years. LOL I seriously do not have any feelings and don't care what she does. I do care if she gets with someone that abuses my son or mistreats him.

 

I doubt that she will find anyone decent to have her, they will figure out what kind of person she really is, and that will be it.

 

Everything you said Rev was right on, and It was nice to hear it. It wasn't so much that I was hurting from this Divorce, it was everything else compounding it. Truck breaking down, not working, and other issues. I am now moving forward, and waiting for the right moment to pounce. I just wanted you to know before I posted my update. Thanks for every.

 

ZeD

[ZxExD]

It didn't turn out like I wanted it to, but under the circumstances, it is the best I could do for now and keep my son most of the time. I am sure she will mess up and then I can go back to court and get Full Custody. As of last Friday It Is Final......

 

FREEDOM!!!!!!!!DIVORCED!!!!!!!!!FREEDOM

 

Now that I had a couple of days to recouperate from everything that happened last week, here are the details involving the divorce.

 

After being up for 3 straight days, and so tired, out of money, and didn't want to take the chance of losing Mikey completely, my lawyer talked me into settling. I think both lawyers got together and discussed this option because neither of us had money to pay them. Come to find out, My Ex took out a $5,000.00 loan to pay for her lawyer, and it was all gone. If we did go to trial, it would have cost me another $5,000 minimum.

 

Settled on 50/50 which probably would have been what the judge would have done anyways.

-She gets him every Monday, Tuesday and every other weekend.

-I get him every Wednesday,Thursday and every other weekend.

Even though she has done nothing for Mikey in the past 5 years. I believe I got the best out of it however, and she was mad about a few things.

 

-I had to give up next 2 years of taxes, which is ok because I claimed Mikey the past 4, it was something to reach the settlement.

-I had to let her other son, the low life, be able to see Mikey with restrictions that another adult must be present and he is not to get arrested or cause a major problem for the next to years.

-No child support

 

What I got from her, and she was mad.

-She has to keep full Health, vision and dental insurance on Mikey.

-She now has to pay Half of everything he does, child care, school, lunches, fieldtrips, school suplies, all after school activities (Baseball, sports, etc.)

-I also have have first rights, meaning, that if she can't take care of Mikey, she has to give me the option to get him before she can let anyone else including daycare. I also get to pick Mikey up from school so he isn't waiting there for hours for her to pick him up.

-She also wanted me to pay for her lawyer and court cost, LMAO. That wasn't going to happen.

-Mikey is not to be removed from the shcool he is attending for the next 3 years. So, if she moves, its her problem.

-She is responsible for all her past debts, which is a good thing because she didn't realize, I would have been liable for her $5,000 loan and her credit cards that are maxed. duh

-We got co- Primary Residence because I was not going to give that up.

 

My lawyer typed up everything and worded it in my favor for the future. She has given me advice to which I need to follow and when My ex or her son messes up, we will be back in court to where I can get full custody and child support. All evidence that would have been allowed in court has been wiped clean and can no longer be used, therefore, it is what happens from here out.

 

If I have any other thing I remember, I will add to post.

 

Thanks for being there through these rough times for me, I greatly appreciate all of you.

 

Michael

[hayewils]

I swear someone on here is in the oilfield. cant figure out which one and who tho.. LOL

isn't it amazing when all hell breaks loose in your life, everything stops, breaks, busts, squeaks, and just down right blows up?

For the last 6 months, when my wife and I really started having problems, everything else went with it.

My ac in my truck, just fixed it.

Water heater busted a seal, just replaced it.

stove blew up the other night, Im looking at it.

my list can go on and on.. I think Im gonna get baptized..

Have a priest come and bless my home, something..

And on top, the bills are really crippling me.. HOA dues, property taxes.

Everything all at once. UGH!!

Why cant they just go away quietly? and Im talking about the ex..