Should I just end it?

[Kelemvor]

A little background... I've been married over a year and it's, at least to me, been a miserable one. Many ups and downs and let's just say our one year anniversary we spent not speaking to each other for half of the day, along with placing pillows down the middle of the bed and sleeping as far away from each other as we could... in a rented suite no less. Yes, we have good days when we laugh or watch movies, but even though I love my wife, I'm just not IN love with her. I haven't been perfect in our marriage, but have tried to improve things and gotten on the right path after deviating at one point.

 

The fundamental problem is that I'm just not sure we are compatible or even ever were. I'm, to put things in perspective and not risk my identity... let's say working on a doctorate while trying to work full time. I sometimes work 60-80 hours a week or more. Most of my stress has been financial since I just can't support both of us if she doesn't want to work at my current salary although that will improve when I'm done with my degree. We have no kids. She had a great job in a new city with me after getting married, working in a firm at a desk job, but didn't like her boss, was constantly late to work and would refuse to stay late for deadlines claiming that she wasn't being paid enough for it. Well, she ended up getting fired. I've tried to help her search endlessly for jobs but nothing is ever good enough and she always resorts to "I'd rather shoot my brains out than sit at a desk or do X..." My view point is that this is just a bad economy for her career choice right now and sometimes you have to do what you have to do in order to help contribute financially to a marriage. I'm having to work even more than I usually do, on top of my responsibilities and studies outside of work and I feel that I've reached the breaking point. I told her other day that I didn't respect her for her apparent lack of responsibility and lack of willingness to help contribute to ease my own stress. I have grown to resent her and consider her to have an extremely poor work ethic. She seems to want to be taken care of and be the perfect "domestic wife". She bakes cookies, does all the house work, folds clothes, you name it... The perfect 50s t.v. wife, and then gives me a guilt trip when I harass her about whether she's looking for work. She works piddly part time stuff that pays nothing and allows her to sit at home most of the day with no benefits or job security. She brings up examples of friends who's wives aren't made to work that are similar situations but I just find that philosophy deplorable and it makes me respect her even less. Our sex life is non-existent, and it's MY fault, not hers. She would have sex every day if i wanted, but I simply don't even desire her physically, nor am I even attracted to her any more. There might be some issues on my end with that, but I think a great deal of it is psychological. She blames me for being a workaholic, not giving her enough attention, not allowing her to be a "wife" to me, and trying to live like a bachelor.

 

She's endangering my career goals and my studies by the amount of stress and distraction that everything is causing. I constantly think about how I could take back the day we got married and constantly wish I could be single again and didn't have to take on the responsibility of a wife who I truly believe would have a horrible time taking care of herself. I thought I was marrying a career oriented woman, one that had ambition equal to mine and would be occupied by a career but I've gotten quite the opposite.

 

We had a recent fight where I basically said that if she's not willing to work a job locally doing something that she might not enjoy, then she should look in other cities nearby to try to find something that would be worthy of her standards. She may be moving out back home to find such a job and us living apart as husband and wife who see each other when we can. Ultimately, I know deep inside that this will lead to nothing more than a separation and divorce, but I sometimes wonder if all of this is my fault or if I'm just being unreasonable.

 

There's always 2 sides of the coin so I'm sure she'd have plenty to say about me. I don't sleep in the same bed with her many times because I'm up late working and sleep in the guest room or many times am working night schedules. I've reached the point where my education and career, I feel, are being jeopardized by the chaos and stress in the household causing me to go into survival mode.

 

Honestly, I really hate being married so far and I don't think I'm very good at it at all. I'm a workaholic, overly ambitious, and don't have nearly the time to devote to an emotionally needy wife who may be nothing more than a wife with "normal" needs, but I wanted a wife who was driven and career oriented like i was and thought that's what I was getting from what she told me prior to heading to the altar. I'm a Christian, so the thought of divorcing is just horrible for me, but I simply refuse to live my life miserable with someone that I feel is nothing more than a leech and a weight tied to my life vest. The cookies are great, the domestic stuff is great, the grocery shopping is great, but I'd rather have a wife who was financially responsible and knew the value of money, respected the need to financially contribute (especially with 2 college degrees) and I'd rather hire a maid for all the other stuff.

 

I'm so tired of this.

[Els]

OP, I recall that you had made quite a few posts about this same topic some time ago, and received quite a large number of answers?

 

Regardless, I think that if she had never spoken to you of her desire to stay at home or only work part time jobs before you married, she owes it to you to at least reach a compromise with regards to her contribution to the household income. It is pretty unfair of her to have never said a word about her plans and goals as a wife prior to marriage.

 

But I think a large issue here is that you have mentioned being a devout Christian, and thus my assumption is that you have sought a devout Christian wife. Am I right? If so, well.. Many Christians are of the belief that what she is doing is what the 'good Christian wife' does, as the supporter of her husband. This is primarily based on people's interpretation of the wife being 'submissive to the husband' and the Proverbs description of a good wife. So all this Stepford wife stuff comes with the territory. She is probably just doing as she was indoctrinated to do and is perhaps confused that her Christian husband is not appreciating it.

[Kelemvor]

OP, I recall that you had made quite a few posts about this same topic some time ago, and received quite a large number of answers?

 

Regardless, I think that if she had never spoken to you of her desire to stay at home or only work part time jobs before you married, she owes it to you to at least reach a compromise with regards to her contribution to the household income. It is pretty unfair of her to have never said a word about her plans and goals as a wife prior to marriage.

 

But I think a large issue here is that you have mentioned being a devout Christian, and thus my assumption is that you have sought a devout Christian wife. Am I right? If so, well.. Many Christians are of the belief that what she is doing is what the 'good Christian wife' does, as the supporter of her husband. This is primarily based on people's interpretation of the wife being 'submissive to the husband' and the Proverbs description of a good wife. So all this Stepford wife stuff comes with the territory. She is probably just doing as she was indoctrinated to do and is perhaps confused that her Christian husband is not appreciating it.

 

Yes, you've hit it on the head. That's what makes this whole thing so confusing. She IS a good Christian wife. She reads devotionals, she goes to prayer groups and she seems to want to be the spiritual domesticated wife. I would not however consider her the submissive type. She doesn't yell, but she is very stubborn and opinionated and extremely high maintenance. She also was not this "wife of Proverbs" prior to us getting married but appeared more secular. I think it's been not only a good "spiritual" thing for her to do while we've been going through rough times but it's been a coping mechanism. "If I'm praying and doing all of this spiritual stuff, how can he divorce me for being a bad wife, how can I be doing the wrong thing by seeking a closer relationship with God through all the chaos?" It's incredibly mind rattling to sit down and try to discuss the practicality of our situation. Again, she has no work ethic, she is oblivious to financial obligation or other responsibilities as an adult wife with no children to take care of who's husband is overworked, overstressed and just trying to keep us both afloat. She painted herself as someone who was career minded, and would work part time when we had kids. She had a perfect job for her second career and lost it because (she'll tell you she couldn't stand her overbearing and abusive boss) but I'll tell you as someone who watched her leave for work 30 minutes late each morning and justify it by "skipped my lunch break, surely he understood, the time all equals out", that it was poor work ethic. Hell, I pulled up a copy of her resume other day to see a mile long list of jobs she's never held for more than a year. There was one job on there years ago that she held for 3 years, the rest were less than a year.

 

Yes, you're probably right. Her mother was a stay at home wife/mother who never worked and always stood at the foot of her husband waiting on him. I don't want to be waited on! I want a partner, an equal who I can respect and equally admire. The only qualities I admire are her moral and spiritual qualities which makes the thought of divorce so difficult. How do you justify divorcing someone on so many grounds, who....finds time to go to Church 5x as much as you do?! It makes me feel like I must be doing something wrong or going about this the wrong way. I can't even go to Church in the morning because I picked up a night shift for extra money!

 

I've expressed my dissatisfaction with our marriage and told her to get a job. She's got 50K in educational debt for crying out loud. I've got enormous educational debt of my own. How can someone not have any sense of responsibility to try to take care of that on their own? How can someone with any sense of responsibility not see how taxed and emotionally/psychologically drained I am on a weekly basis just trying to pay for everything. She pays absolutely no bills whatsoever other than credit card bills with the little part time money that she earns.

 

I'm working 60 extra hours during the last 2 weeks of this month just to pay for our standard of living. She then complains that we don't have joint checking accounts and bristles to ask me for money. It's like she wants to be infantalized, but will say how she doesn't need or want my money when I offer it. I'll bring home a check for some work I did and offer it to her and she'll say that she doesn't need or want it, but she's got $20 in her bank account. YES she does! Take it, I say, you need it! I can't imagine giving her access to my bank account even though her name is on it. I'm apparently the only one financially responsible enough to handle the finances and I never pegged myself as that type until I got married and realized how much better I was at it than my wife.

 

I consider that attitude to be what is unspiritual, but honestly I find it hard to think of divorcing a wife that I am so unhappy with, that is so "spiritual". I feel like it's a coping or defense mechanism because when we fight, she blames me for making her feel horrible about not having a job and why would i hurt her by bring it up, how can i be so insensitive about not sleeping in the same bed, how can I not be sensitive enough to not work during holidays. Because I'm trying to keep you with light and heat on in this damn house of ours with the seeming expectation that I'm supposed to not only pay off your educational debt when I'm done with "training" but my own as well. She cries and says that I make her feel like a burden. Well guess what? She is! I'm sorry I sound so harsh but I'm about to have a nervous breakdown on most days. She makes it sound like it would be the end of the world to take a job that she wasn't interested in, working for a boss that she didn't like. That's life! I say. How many other people are having to do the same thing right now and not letting it ruin their lives?! Good grief.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Kelemvor

[Kelemvor]

And to add fuel to the fire, I'm giving up my vacation during December and working 77hrs a week on average, missing every holiday in order to pick up extra money to not only give us a nice nest egg, but pay off all her credit card debt ($5K), pay off some that I've incurred from tight months ($2K, and I'm used to $0) and have enough money to consider moving out and filing for divorce and giving her enough to get herself on her feet. That is if I don't shoot myself first from all the stress. I've had it.

[Viv]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it sounds like your wife would be better off without you.

 

You mention how you no longer want to sleep with her, often sleep in another bedroom, control all of the finances. She tells you that you make her feel bad and that you don't give her enough attention.

 

You have also said that you are not in love with her, are a workaholic and would rather be with someone that you can admire and respect.

 

IMO your wife not working is a legitimate concern but a marriage should be able to survive such a problem - I'm assuming that she doesn't plan to not work forever. If you had enough love, care and respect for her in the beginning, it should not disappear because of this.

 

Your behaviour towards her is probably having a detrimental effect on her self-esteem, maybe you could go to marriage counselling, to at least give her an idea of what is going on, even if you do plan to leave.

[soserious1]

She unilaterally has decided to not work? Get her out NOW ! Buy her a bus ticket back to her family,do NOT pay off 5K of her credit card debt, get a lawyer and get her out immediately!

[willowthewisp]

You say in your first post you enjoy working, you are a worhoholic, you thrive on it, you are driven...

 

You say in your second post you are working only because your wife isn't, you are doing long hours and working holidays because she isn't working and you are about to have a break down...

 

Which is it?

 

You say your wife does not work

 

You say wife works part-time

 

Which is it?

 

You say your wifes previous boss was overbearing and abusive

 

You say your wife didn't put the effort in at work and went in late everyday

 

You are surprised? Really? Would you want to work for an abusive boss? Have you ever worked for an abusive boss?

 

 

Harsh. Yes.

 

You won't like what I have said, you will argue against me, you may even attack me on here and call me judgmental, you may be offended but ask yourself this...why would I waste my time writing to a complete a stranger?

 

Because I know how much your actions hurt, that's why. I doubt very much that your wife is being malious by not working a full time job. How about giving her some understanding? Looking at your part in all of this...and yes, there is one, there is always two sides to the story.

 

Go to MC, see your pastor but don't walk...it solves nothing, long term, it solves nothing, what you do not learn to resolve in this relationship will carry to the next because this is not about incompatibility or one person, this about your skills to work together as a team. Marriage always has its problems, EVERY marriage, the happy and successful ones are the ones where the spouses learn to to work out their differences so that both people are happy with a compromise. A trained MC can easily give you those skills if you are both willing to look at yourselves and stop blaming each other.

 

Like anything worth having in life, Marriage takes work. Not your fault, we are not taught these skills in school but you can learn them.

[westrock]

She's endangering my career goals and my studies by the amount of stress and distraction that everything is causing.

 

Career goals are nice, but your marriage has to take priority over your career goals. Marriage first. Career second.

 

If you can't mantain your current standard of living, then downsize. Why do you have to live in a house? Move into an apartment if you have to, even a basement apartment, whatever it takes. Cut back on everything that's not essential.

 

I agree with Viv and Willowthewisp. You're complaining about your wife, but it's you that needs a major attitude change here.

[mrsgump]

Sorry to hear your tale. I can understand why you're not happy... but if you're already thinking about ending it, maybe it's about time to have a frank chat with her. You've got nothing to lose.

 

Have you explained to her how you *feel*? You both obviously had different expectations from your marriage. The truth is that some men are happy to work long hours and look after their wives financially, but others expect a fair contribution from both partners. Sometimes it's very stressful to find a job and it's even more stressful if you've had a bad experience. Maybe she is not feeling great to take money from you but doesn't have much choice. or maybe she expects it but is also confused about how finances should work between you both.

 

The other thing that I learned with my husband (we are now separated) is that he started to rely on me financially - and I inadvertently encouraged it by continuously helping him out. What I've learned is to have boundaries - if she wants money from you regularly, then give her a regular amount that is reasonable but no more. If she wants more, she can work for it. Don't help her too much to your detriment if you are not happy doing it.

 

I'm sure she is upset to have a new husband who doesn't seem to have any time for her, even if it is because you are working hard.

 

You are already married... so don't give up if you haven't talked about it properly. If you talk and you still can't reach any agreement, then at least you have tried to resolve your issues. Any relationship, whether you are married or not, will require some honest communication.

 

Good luck!

Edited November 20, 2011 by mrsgump

[Els]

Yes, you've hit it on the head. That's what makes this whole thing so confusing. She IS a good Christian wife. She reads devotionals, she goes to prayer groups and she seems to want to be the spiritual domesticated wife. I would not however consider her the submissive type. She doesn't yell, but she is very stubborn and opinionated and extremely high maintenance. She also was not this "wife of Proverbs" prior to us getting married but appeared more secular. I think it's been not only a good "spiritual" thing for her to do while we've been going through rough times but it's been a coping mechanism. "If I'm praying and doing all of this spiritual stuff, how can he divorce me for being a bad wife, how can I be doing the wrong thing by seeking a closer relationship with God through all the chaos?" It's incredibly mind rattling to sit down and try to discuss the practicality of our situation. Again, she has no work ethic, she is oblivious to financial obligation or other responsibilities as an adult wife with no children to take care of who's husband is overworked, overstressed and just trying to keep us both afloat. She painted herself as someone who was career minded, and would work part time when we had kids. She had a perfect job for her second career and lost it because (she'll tell you she couldn't stand her overbearing and abusive boss) but I'll tell you as someone who watched her leave for work 30 minutes late each morning and justify it by "skipped my lunch break, surely he understood, the time all equals out", that it was poor work ethic. Hell, I pulled up a copy of her resume other day to see a mile long list of jobs she's never held for more than a year. There was one job on there years ago that she held for 3 years, the rest were less than a year.

 

Yes, you're probably right. Her mother was a stay at home wife/mother who never worked and always stood at the foot of her husband waiting on him. I don't want to be waited on! I want a partner, an equal who I can respect and equally admire. The only qualities I admire are her moral and spiritual qualities which makes the thought of divorce so difficult. How do you justify divorcing someone on so many grounds, who....finds time to go to Church 5x as much as you do?! It makes me feel like I must be doing something wrong or going about this the wrong way. I can't even go to Church in the morning because I picked up a night shift for extra money!

 

I've expressed my dissatisfaction with our marriage and told her to get a job. She's got 50K in educational debt for crying out loud. I've got enormous educational debt of my own. How can someone not have any sense of responsibility to try to take care of that on their own? How can someone with any sense of responsibility not see how taxed and emotionally/psychologically drained I am on a weekly basis just trying to pay for everything. She pays absolutely no bills whatsoever other than credit card bills with the little part time money that she earns.

 

I'm working 60 extra hours during the last 2 weeks of this month just to pay for our standard of living. She then complains that we don't have joint checking accounts and bristles to ask me for money. It's like she wants to be infantalized, but will say how she doesn't need or want my money when I offer it. I'll bring home a check for some work I did and offer it to her and she'll say that she doesn't need or want it, but she's got $20 in her bank account. YES she does! Take it, I say, you need it! I can't imagine giving her access to my bank account even though her name is on it. I'm apparently the only one financially responsible enough to handle the finances and I never pegged myself as that type until I got married and realized how much better I was at it than my wife.

 

I consider that attitude to be what is unspiritual, but honestly I find it hard to think of divorcing a wife that I am so unhappy with, that is so "spiritual". I feel like it's a coping or defense mechanism because when we fight, she blames me for making her feel horrible about not having a job and why would i hurt her by bring it up, how can i be so insensitive about not sleeping in the same bed, how can I not be sensitive enough to not work during holidays. Because I'm trying to keep you with light and heat on in this damn house of ours with the seeming expectation that I'm supposed to not only pay off your educational debt when I'm done with "training" but my own as well. She cries and says that I make her feel like a burden. Well guess what? She is! I'm sorry I sound so harsh but I'm about to have a nervous breakdown on most days. She makes it sound like it would be the end of the world to take a job that she wasn't interested in, working for a boss that she didn't like. That's life! I say. How many other people are having to do the same thing right now and not letting it ruin their lives?! Good grief.

 

 

What standard of living do the both of you have, that you need to work 80 hrs/week to support 2 people, by the way? I think the first thing to do for you would be to cut down on any unnecessary expenses at all - just prioritize food and shelter. Really, 2 people can survive reasonably on $2000/month. If she wants a new dress, jewelry, makeup, well, too bad for her.

 

After having successfully cut down your expenses and thus work hours, allowing you more time to think and put yourself in a decent frame of mind, I think you need to put some thought into the sort of woman that you want. If you want a devout Christian - the sort that will be 'submissive' to you, take your last name, do all the traditional 'wifely' things and such... it would be unfair to expect that same woman to also be as career-minded and ambitious as you. However, as you have mentioned that you only want someone career minded and ambitious - if that is truly the case, perhaps devout Christians are not the best pool to be looking in. The traditional interpretation that many devout Christians have of 'a good wife' is the former.

 

Regardless, I think you do come across as a little condescending and ultimately uninterested in her, although certainly that could be the result of the 80 hour weeks. Perhaps a talk and compromise is in order - you could tell her that she could get a job and you both hire a maid for the housework, and you too will try to work on the things that she is currently complaining about (lack of affection etc).

Edited November 21, 2011 by Elswyth

[Kelemvor]

Thanks for the posts. I feel better today after a good night/days sleep and we did talk about a few things and we'll see if things get better but I have my doubts.

 

Look, I don't take any offense to any of the negative comments. People make posts like mine and always are judged in some degree.

 

I work 80/hr weeks because I'm a physician trying to complete a residency in a high stress field. So, it's not just the work that's time consuming and stressful, but all the other stuff that I have to do outside of work to complete my training. We're not paid very much during residency, and are often overworked. I am able to pick up extra work to earn a little extra cash. I have 300K in outstanding educational debt that I simply don't make enough as a resident to pay back until after I'm done, so that's debt that's accruing interest. She has 50K that she COULD pay back but is unable to find a job that is stable enough to where she could use the IBR federal repayment plan that would essentially stop her interest from accruing. I don't have that luxury. Regardless of what I make after I'm done with residency, think about 300K in loans with a 7.5% interest that is added to your principal and you get the idea of how aggressive you have to pay on these things to get them under control so you can do the normal things like save for retirement, etc.. Big house? Nice car? FORGET about it.

 

So, my situation is a bit different. Yea, I'm a workaholic I guess, but then again, I sort of have to be, or at least feel like I have to be. After all, I'm taking care of people, not machines or company finances. My field is very unforgiving of mistakes... I used to work in another field where I could break and fix things, doesn't go over too well in my current one.

 

That being said, it's just a tough transitional period that we are in. Maybe she doesn't realize just how much I have on my plate on a daily/weekly basis, but the more financial stress she adds to me, the more I have to work, the less time I have to do all my other stuff... research, study, etc.. and LESS time for her. Believe me, I'd rather have MORE time with her but it's hard when you have someone who doesn't have your financial philosophy. She'd rather not pay on any of her debt and thinks it will just take care of itself.

 

We just had an argument where I offered to pay off her $5K debt as part of my Christmas gift and she blew up saying she could take care of it herself and didn't want me holding that over her head. WTH? No she can't take care of it herself. Her financial decisions affect me and why I can't take care of some of her debt for her since she is unable to do so is unacceptable. The ridiculous irony is that she would be paying for it with money that I give her anyway, so it makes no sense. She lives in this dream land where she thinks she is paying for her debt with the little cash she brings in from tiny part time stuff. It's me who's paying for her medical bills, me who's paying for ALL of the monthly bills, me who's paying for the unexpected automobile costs that cost $1K to fix and she would have no way of paying for.

 

Some of you people want to call me condescending and cold or unappreciative? Give me a freaking break. Live in these shoes and see how you would feel. See how warm and appreciative you would feel towards the other person on a daily basis if you were in an identical situation.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Kelemvor

[Els]

I think you misread my post - it's completely understandable for someone working 80 hour weeks to be a less-than-stellar husband IMO. What I was trying to state is this: If you want to try and make this work out, both of you need to put in effort and change, not just her. If you feel you're too incompatible to work things out, I would advise against looking in the devout Christian circles for your next mate.

[findingnemo]

Thanks for the posts. I feel better today after a good night/days sleep and we did talk about a few things and we'll see if things get better but I have my doubts.

 

Look, I don't take any offense to any of the negative comments. People make posts like mine and always are judged in some degree.

 

I work 80/hr weeks because I'm a physician trying to complete a residency in a high stress field. So, it's not just the work that's time consuming and stressful, but all the other stuff that I have to do outside of work to complete my training. We're not paid very much during residency, and are often overworked. I am able to pick up extra work to earn a little extra cash. I have 300K in outstanding educational debt that I simply don't make enough as a resident to pay back until after I'm done, so that's debt that's accruing interest. She has 50K that she COULD pay back but is unable to find a job that is stable enough to where she could use the IBR federal repayment plan that would essentially stop her interest from accruing. I don't have that luxury. Regardless of what I make after I'm done with residency, think about 300K in loans with a 7.5% interest that is added to your principal and you get the idea of how aggressive you have to pay on these things to get them under control so you can do the normal things like save for retirement, etc.. Big house? Nice car? FORGET about it.

 

So, my situation is a bit different. Yea, I'm a workaholic I guess, but then again, I sort of have to be, or at least feel like I have to be. After all, I'm taking care of people, not machines or company finances. My field is very unforgiving of mistakes... I used to work in another field where I could break and fix things, doesn't go over too well in my current one.

 

That being said, it's just a tough transitional period that we are in. Maybe she doesn't realize just how much I have on my plate on a daily/weekly basis, but the more financial stress she adds to me, the more I have to work, the less time I have to do all my other stuff... research, study, etc.. and LESS time for her. Believe me, I'd rather have MORE time with her but it's hard when you have someone who doesn't have your financial philosophy. She'd rather not pay on any of her debt and thinks it will just take care of itself.

 

We just had an argument where I offered to pay off her $5K debt as part of my Christmas gift and she blew up saying she could take care of it herself and didn't want me holding that over her head. WTH? No she can't take care of it herself. Her financial decisions affect me and why I can't take care of some of her debt for her since she is unable to do so is unacceptable. The ridiculous irony is that she would be paying for it with money that I give her anyway, so it makes no sense. She lives in this dream land where she thinks she is paying for her debt with the little cash she brings in from tiny part time stuff. It's me who's paying for her medical bills, me who's paying for ALL of the monthly bills, me who's paying for the unexpected automobile costs that cost $1K to fix and she would have no way of paying for.

 

Some of you people want to call me condescending and cold or unappreciative? Give me a freaking break. Live in these shoes and see how you would feel. See how warm and appreciative you would feel towards the other person on a daily basis if you were in an identical situation.

 

 

You and your wife are incompatible when it comes to finances and your ideas of what it means to work hard. Christianity has nothing do with being a Stepford Wife. Your W would simply rather hide behind the whole domestic wife thing than work, earn money and pay off her debt at least.

 

What can you do? You have two choices. The first is to think about the future. You and her don't see eye to eye on finances now and will probably not see eye to eye in the future. She portrayed herself as a career woman and that's what attracted you. Leave her now before you have kids and are stuck.

 

The alternative is to become the Stepford husband. You take charge of bringing home the bacon but also become the sole decision maker. If you are going to spend all that time at work, move into an apartment as close as possible to your workplace, limit her expenses to a weekly allowance that covers groceries and other essentials. She may not be allowed to have a separate credit card, or a separate car for that matter.

 

I don't think that your W is in the wrong and neither are you. But there will be plenty of resentment if you don't agree on financial issues.

[Tiberius]

Its 2011, its perfectly reasonable to expect a spouse to pull her own weight. If the tables would have been turned, she would have thrown you out long ago.

[Viv]

You seem to totally devalue your wife because her part-time job is not bringing in enough money for you? You have only been married a year, perhaps if you supported her emotionally, instead of putting her down, she may be more successful in her career. Being fired and working under an abusive boss would knock most people's self-esteem and what they need is emotional support from their partner, not more abuse.

 

There are other things apart from money which some people would consider more important. It does seem that you would be better off looking for someone who prioritises money over emotional intimacy in the same way that you do.

 

You talk about how she should understand the stress you're under, but are you able to put yourself in her shoes and empathise with how she may be feeling?

 

Also I think it's a little unfair to imply that she has deceitfully portrayed herself as a 'career women' and now wants to be a 'fifties wife'. It has been less than a year since she left her job and she is currently working part-time!

 

If I were in a new marriage with a partner who treated me, and felt about me, in the way that you do, I would be pretty depressed and finding it hard to job hunt myself.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Viv

[willowthewisp]

I'm a lawyer, so I get where you are coming from re long hours and responsibility with life changing consequences for people. In my profession, my mistakes don't kill someone but they can change their lives in a very bad way! I do understand pressure. I'm not fully qualified yet either and I also work for very little pay. I earn so little I have to live with family in a small room, after my ex made me homeless because I wasn't "perfect" enough for him.

 

No one is perfect.

 

No one, yourself included.

 

Whilst I understand that you are stressed and feel your wife should help out more finacially, I also do not think that you should leave your marriage because your partner is not performing the way you think they should. If she were cheating or abusive then yes, absolutely, walk but she isn't! You have hit a tough spot, and you need to work together to resolve it, compromise, compromise so you both are happy.

 

Trust me when I say there are slim pickins out there. I have had one dating disaster after another since my ex of nearly 2 decades walked out on our wedding. You only have to read these boards to see what some women (and men) will do to their spouses. I know this is hard for you but I also know you are very fortunate to have someone who loves you and the worst they are doing is not pulling their weight finacially. All this housework she does, she probably feels is her way of expressing how much she cares for you and apprciates you woorking for both of you. She is also not happy about the amount of time you work.

 

I really think the two of you need to sit down calmly and express your needs, clearly, without accusations.

 

This is workable, you can resolve this. Don't throw away a good thing at the first hurdle, remember why you married her, remember the women you love.

[Els]

Christianity has nothing do with being a Stepford Wife.

 

On the contrary, many 'devout' Christians (the ones who go to church 5x/week like the OP's wife, who believe that the husband and wife both must be Christians so as not to be 'unequally yoked', marriage must come before sex, etc) do believe that the Bible calls for traditional gender roles. A literal interpretation of many Bible passages, especially the (in-)famous 'wives, submit to your husband' phrase would naturally lead to that. We're not here to argue theology about which interpretation is right, but statistically, many devout Christian couples I know adhere to this ideology. The husband is the 'head of the house', makes the decisions, the wife follows and supports. Naturally, in that case, the husband would toil to support the family as the main breadwinner as well, as an equally literal interpretation of several Biblical passages suggest.

 

I have known very, very few career-minded and very ambitious women who are also hardcore Christians, hence my suggestion that the OP should not be looking amongst hardcore Christians for them.

[soserious1]

I'm a lawyer, so I get where you are coming from re long hours and responsibility with life changing consequences for people. In my profession, my mistakes don't kill someone but they can change their lives in a very bad way! I do understand pressure. I'm not fully qualified yet either and I also work for very little pay. I earn so little I have to live with family in a small room, after my ex made me homeless because I wasn't "perfect" enough for him.

 

No one is perfect.

 

No one, yourself included.

 

Whilst I understand that you are stressed and feel your wife should help out more finacially, I also do not think that you should leave your marriage because your partner is not performing the way you think they should. If she were cheating or abusive then yes, absolutely, walk but she isn't! You have hit a tough spot, and you need to work together to resolve it, compromise, compromise so you both are happy.

 

Trust me when I say there are slim pickins out there. I have had one dating disaster after another since my ex of nearly 2 decades walked out on our wedding. You only have to read these boards to see what some women (and men) will do to their spouses. I know this is hard for you but I also know you are very fortunate to have someone who loves you and the worst they are doing is not pulling their weight finacially. All this housework she does, she probably feels is her way of expressing how much she cares for you and apprciates you woorking for both of you. She is also not happy about the amount of time you work.

 

I really think the two of you need to sit down calmly and express your needs, clearly, without accusations.

 

This is workable, you can resolve this. Don't throw away a good thing at the first hurdle, remember why you married her, remember the women you love.

 

He doesn't want to pay an able bodied woman's bills, there was never, at any point an agreement between this couple that this woman would be a SAHW.

 

This woman has unilaterally decided to sit at home, leeching off of the OP, no discussion, no offers to repay him once she gets a new job and gets on her feet.

 

The OP needs this woman to get off her arse & get a JOB, no big discussion needed here.

Edited November 22, 2011 by soserious1

[trippi1432]

Wow!! Talk about an LS wrong turn.....I think the gist here is that there is a sub-culture going on with a difference of opinion...but Willow gets closer to the mark than most.

 

My first guess with this OP is that he should have waited until he finished his degree before he started playing house and a little more maturity into his career before he settled down to try and keep up with the social aspect of what it means to be a man...as he is not being a very supportive one to his wife. He would make the perfect executive employee who pushes his will upon his wife to be a Stepford. I've been privy to these younger executive types and listened to the way they speak to their wives...I've shook my head in shame at the way they treat them. No different in the medical field as that is stressful indeed....but no need to go home and kick the dog and the wife. Yes, I do understand OP, the stress...the need to get out of financial debt...three college degrees here while raising two kids.

 

To be honest, she could become independent and not need him...the knife goes both ways...and we would see a totally different story here....of how his wife is independent, emotionally not there, works all the time and has no time for him. Somewhere in the middle is happy, but neither knows which side to butter the toast. Until the OP gets himself out from under his current stress...the career and school..he will be unhappy with her. That is within himself to resolve. And by the other things he has stated here....the longer he continues to take it out on her, the more she will withdraw. The foundation is severely cracked...and the chasm grows......

[soserious1]

Wow!! Talk about an LS wrong turn.....I think the gist here is that there is a sub-culture going on with a difference of opinion...but Willow gets closer to the mark than most.

 

My first guess with this OP is that he should have waited until he finished his degree before he started playing house and a little more maturity into his career before he settled down to try and keep up with the social aspect of what it means to be a man...as he is not being a very supportive one to his wife. He would make the perfect executive employee who pushes his will upon his wife to be a Stepford. I've been privy to these younger executive types and listened to the way they speak to their wives...I've shook my head in shame at the way they treat them. No different in the medical field as that is stressful indeed....but no need to go home and kick the dog and the wife. Yes, I do understand OP, the stress...the need to get out of financial debt...three college degrees here while raising two kids.

 

To be honest, she could become independent and not need him...the knife goes both ways...and we would see a totally different story here....of how his wife is independent, emotionally not there, works all the time and has no time for him. Somewhere in the middle is happy, but neither knows which side to butter the toast. Until the OP gets himself out from under his current stress...the career and school..he will be unhappy with her. That is within himself to resolve. And by the other things he has stated here....the longer he continues to take it out on her, the more she will withdraw. The foundation is severely cracked...and the chasm grows......

 

Hold the phone here!

 

The OP is not trying to create some "Stepford wife" he proposed to & married a woman who presented herself as a seriously career minded woman. Their agreement was that they would BOTH be fully employed till such time that children entered the picture.

 

OP's wife was not laid off from her job due to a poor economy, she was FIRED, let go because of substandard work performance. Instead of immediately going into high gear

to correct her work ethic & attitude & seeking a new job, she's been sitting at home baking cookies & whining at the OP I'm sorry but from where I sit it appears that OP's wife pulled a bait and switch on him.

 

This poor guy has not yet finished his training, he's working in excess of 70 hours a week to keep himself and his so called wife afloat, while she's home baking cookies sniveling about how the OP isn't attentive enough?

 

We've all worked for bosses we didn't like, all had jobs that were stressful, that's why they call it "work" if it was always fun we'd be paying the boss to let us do it. OP's wife could have ASKED her husband if she could quit long enough to find a new job or she could have put on her big girl panties & decided to stick it out till she found a new job. She did neither of those things & is now expecting her husband to not only pick up the slack but to also lovingly embrace this new deal she's sprung on him.

 

IMHO, this is BS, OP's wife has broken the marital contract & committed a HUGE act of fiscal infidelity. If I were OP I'd exit stage left ASAP, this gal totally misrepresented herself & her intentions in order to get the wedding ring, now she's settling back for a life long ride on the Doctor gravy train.

 

You can bet if situations were reversed, if OP went home & announced he'd been fired & that his wife would be expected to support him & service their loan obligations & debt, his wife would be out the door so fast that OP would think a hurricane had hit.

 

This thread IMHO presents clear evidence that marriage is a crappy deal for any sane person with the prospects of earning a high income.

Edited November 22, 2011 by soserious1

[knitwit]

Hi Kelemvor,

 

Interesting to see so many differences of opinion. I'll throw mine in, too.

 

Right now, you are in the middle of a very stressful situation.

 

If your wife was working, would you still be this stressed? Are you in this hard place because of just finances? Will you care as much if she is not working once you are done residency and you all are much better off financially? When you have kids, do you think you will prefer a stay-at-home mom, and her domestic abilities will be more valuable?

 

If so- if the finances are just super-stressful but in all other ways you want to be with your wife, then it seems to me that you can resolve the issues.

 

If the issue is that you are now seeing a very big difference in values- work/career vs more traditional gender roles- then this is much less resolvable, IMO.

 

I have worked in academic medicine doing research/testing/stats. I loved doing it and I have worked with some of the best people on the planet, as far as I am concerned, so please don't take this the wrong way: if you are on that track, you are a rare breed. You will prefer work to just about anything else. You will not even consider it work- you will love it and be "all in", pretty much all the time. Your perfect idea of downtime will be you anywhere that you can get a few hours undisturbed with your laptop so you can really get into your work. Your vacations will be spent enjoying the beach with your laptop or academic magazines. Work is your joy. You will have a very high work ethic and you will have a very strong sense of purpose.

 

You will love your family and enjoy your time with them, don't get me wrong! However, 80-90% of your waking time will be spent thinking about or actually following your primary passion, which will be your work.

 

Is this you? If it is, I think your relationship with your current wife does not have a long shelf life.

 

You are going to have a hard time emotionally supporting or admiring your wife, no matter how good of a Christian or domestic goddess she is, because she does not have the values that you most treasure. This will likely become especially contentious once you have kids.

 

If I am close to being accurate, I would recommend that you set your wife free. She might not look at it this way, but it would be a kindness to both of you.

 

There is nothing wrong with her- there is nothing wrong with you. You two are just incompatible in this important area.

 

There are a lot of men out there who will take pride in being able to support her, and who will want the domestic goddess, devout Christian woman. They will value her, love her, admire her. They will appreciate what she brings to the table. She will feel good about herself with them. If you can't do this for her, let her go so she can find someone who can.

 

As for you- I have no doubt you will find someone with your values, if you choose.

 

I think the big trick will be trying to figure out if you are in a bad spot now because of the stress of residency and the financial stress? Or if there is more going on.

 

Good luck!

[knitwit]

 

OP's wife was not laid off from her job due to a poor economy, she was FIRED, let go because of substandard work performance. Instead of immediately going into high gear

to correct her work ethic & attitude & seeking a new job, she's been sitting at home baking cookies & whining at the OP I'm sorry but from where I sit it appears that OP's wife pulled a bait and switch on him.

 

 

We've all worked for bosses we didn't like, all had jobs that were stressful, that's why they call it "work" if it was always fun we'd be paying the boss to let us do it. OP's wife could have ASKED her husband if she could quit long enough to find a new job or she could have put on her big girl panties & decided to stick it out till she found a new job. She did neither of those things & is now expecting her husband to not only pick up the slack but to also lovingly embrace this new deal she's sprung on him.

 

I don't feel quite so aggressive about the issue- but you've highlighted for me why I think we are seeing a difference in value systems.

 

For me, and the career-oriented, high acheivers I work with- we take our work very seriously. One of my personal character flaws is that I am way too identified with my work- no matter what it is. There is just no way I would ever knowingly and purposefully do a crap job. I have worked crap jobs before- I've either figured out a reason to stick with it (e.g., need the experience to get the degree) or relentlessly pursued another job.

 

I know people who are great workers who still were fired due to client preferences- they busted it until they got another job. Emailed, called, used every social network available. Did not feel good about themselves again until they were working.

 

I suspect Dr K is more like me, and his wife is more like my husband (work is just something you do to bring in a paycheck.)

[willowthewisp]

He doesn't want to pay an able bodied woman's bills, there was never, at any point an agreement between this couple that this woman would be a SAHW.

 

This woman has unilaterally decided to sit at home, leeching off of the OP, no discussion, no offers to repay him once she gets a new job and gets on her feet.

 

The OP needs this woman to get off her arse & get a JOB, no big discussion needed here.

 

I never once said she should not be trying to find full time employment or take a unilateral decision not to work. In fact I think the OP said she does work, part time, oh and just one point, housework IS work!

 

Regardless of that, my point was that it is not a reason to divorce someone. Abuse, adultery, those are reasons to divorce, someone doing something you do not like (for whatever reason and i'm sure she has one) is not a reason to kick them out, get rid...THAT is not love. If we all went around hopping from one person to the next everytime we felt that our spouse was doing or not doing something that we want them to do, then we would all be getting multiple divorces...

 

OH HANG ON...

 

WE ARE

 

Silly little ol' me, I forgot we are living in a self serving, disposable society where everything and everyone is disposable to our own wants and desires...fancy the divorce rate being so high, who would have thought it eh?

 

Whoops, how CARELESS of me...

 

Yes, it's a problem, yes it should be a joint decision, no it is not a reason to stop loving someone. Love is a choice, an action, exercise it and resolve your differences, this is a minor blip, beleive me, look at these boards, look at some others wifes behaviours

 

Phone sex

Emotional affairs

Physical affairs

Drug use

Porn addictions

Adultery with best friends

Taking children away and not allowing their fathers to see them whilst banging OM in your home

[Kelemvor]

I don't feel quite so aggressive about the issue- but you've highlighted for me why I think we are seeing a difference in value systems.

 

For me, and the career-oriented, high acheivers I work with- we take our work very seriously. One of my personal character flaws is that I am way too identified with my work- no matter what it is. There is just no way I would ever knowingly and purposefully do a crap job. I have worked crap jobs before- I've either figured out a reason to stick with it (e.g., need the experience to get the degree) or relentlessly pursued another job.

 

I know people who are great workers who still were fired due to client preferences- they busted it until they got another job. Emailed, called, used every social network available. Did not feel good about themselves again until they were working.

 

I suspect Dr K is more like me, and his wife is more like my husband (work is just something you do to bring in a paycheck.)

 

SoSerious... Thanks for the encouragement. I needed to hear that today. Many days I feel like the cruel and heartless, abusive husband, yet to be "non-abusive" and loving in my wife's eyes would be to deconstruct/reconstruct my psyche almost entirely. She does blame me for "flip flopping" about various issues, such as kids... I think she would like nothing more than to be pregnant right now with a good excuse not to work and to encourage me to commit myself to our marriage in a more binding way psychologically. She even went off birth control a few months back due to the fact that her "ob/gyn recommended...." , etc.. but I think she would just like to be pregnant and thinks that would solve our issues. I wanted children initially when we first married. I married because I not only wanted the personal satisfaction of my career but I thought that a key to happiness was in having a family also. I honestly did not marry for a life long companion or because I was lonely and I never gave this impression to my knowledge. I was very independent then, now, and always will be. I knew I would need someone who was career oriented also so that they wouldn't feel so "left out" of my busy life, and thought that's what I was getting. I mean, a woman with 2 college degrees and 50K in debt to take care of? Who would think differently? She even told me as such. So... after 14 months of what can only be described as a roller coaster ride, or a ship at sea in a storm, kids is completely and utterly off my radar. I've told her that I have no plans on having children anytime soon or the near future until I felt better about our marriage situation. She blames me for "flip flopping" and says "You wanted a family and now you don't." Well, yes... but only because of the situation. If everything had been blissful, I might still feel that way. Perhaps not.

 

Knitwit... I think you have have a certain perspicaciousness into my particularly situation and I really appreciated your perspective and post(s). Unfortunately, I am the sort that falls into your category of high achiever and very goal oriented. To be fair to my wife... I honestly don't think that I would be happy if the financial stress were completely out of the picture. We got married during my internship. I knew that I would be more occupied with my career and hence it was important to have a discussion about our goals and objectives in life and keys to happiness if you will... In her defense, I did say that I had picked a specialty that would allow me more free time in the long run. That being said, I indeed thought that I was marrying a career oriented woman, and was given every indication of such. No other woman would be able to stand living with me I wouldn't think since I live and breath work and if it's not work, it's something involving research that's RELATED to work in some way. During residency, I've come to know myself more deeply and work has become intensely satisfying, if not stressful. I doubt that I'll "slow down" very much after training is over as it's a huge part of who I am and what I gain satisfaction from which was why having a wife who was career oriented was important to me in the first place. So, my stress is definitely financial in a sense because I'm having to worry more about "just working" to pay the bills because she's unwilling to work full time doing something she wouldn't enjoy doing, but then again.. if I had that time back, what would I do with it? I hope spend more time with her, but yes, I'd probably be working more too, just on things that were more high yield to me.

 

So, if the financial stress were suddenly gone? No, I probably wouldn't be any happier. I think she's a wonderful wife, the prototypical Christian homemaker who would love nothing more than to stay at home and raise kids, giving them all the attention and love that they require along with trying to stand steadfast with her husband.

 

I wish I were the more "typical husband" who could appreciate this more. My argument from the finances perspective is that she has 50K debt that is accruing interest that she has no reason to not be paying on. That's financial irresponsibility that affects both of our lives in a way. It makes me feel as though she planned on just "checking out" of career mode once we got married and leaving me to take care of not only my own financial debt, but hers too. She'll say that she plans on taking care of it herself at some time and can't help it if she doesn't want to work on it as aggressively as I want to work on mine, but given her work, or lack of, I don't see how she plans on making this possible.

 

Am I wrong in thinking... If you wanted to be nothing more than primarily a domesticated house wife, then why did you go back to school for a 2nd degree and incur $50K of debt? You're essentially locked into career mode at that point as that is the only way the debt is going to take care of itself unless you marry someone rich who wants to pay it off for you. So, I don't respect nor can fathom her perspective of "this will take care of itself in the long run...". For someone with such a high work ethic, I find it so difficult to respect someone with such a poor one, and such poor financial sense. I've grown resentful that my stress is increased because she refuses to just "do the right thing" and work a job that she might not like. How many of us have done this sort of thing in our lives? I washed and sterilized portable toilets in a hospital before I was old enough to work legally and got paid by my dad for my "volunteer work", worked in a pizza hut and movie theatre as a kid because my folks, who were well off, didn't believe in allowances, worked my way through college as a waiter and then put myself through a masters degree part time at night when I had my first professional job because my family didn't believe in "free education". None of these situations was desirable. You just do...what you have to do. Means to an end. Isn't that what life is all about?

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. I do agree that I must make a decisive choice about this at some point, and soon. She is truly miserable. We visited a family this week who has children and every time she is around children, she plays and interacts with them....almost to the point where I feel uncomfortable around the other family who we're not even that close with. It's like playing a close aunt to a kid that you barely know but I can see so clearly how badly she wishes children. No matter what she tells me, she'd be happiest with a man who was rich enough to take care of her debt, give her children, work was not such a driving force in his life so that he could appreciate her more and give her more attention.

 

 

 

Viv, I just flat out disagree with you and think you are not seeing this very objectively. You're telling me that if she had a husband who was less concerned with money and more concerned with emotional intimacy...she would feel more motivated to find a secure job, even one that she didn't like?

 

It's because I'm responsible and care about her that I'm working as hard as I am. Of course I'm focused on the money right now. How emotionally intimate can you be exactly when you're eating ramen noodles and the utilities shut off? "Thanks honey for spending time cuddling with me in bed to keep us warm... and not focusing so much on your job. It really tells me that you care about spending time with me..." Exaggeration obviously, but I truly fail to fully comprehend where you're coming from. If financial debt, irresponsible spending, poor work ethic and a miserable FICO score area all ok with you, then by all means block it all out with marital love and bliss, after all "love conquers all", right? I'm sorry but I don't approach life in this way.

[Kelemvor]

On the contrary, many 'devout' Christians (the ones who go to church 5x/week like the OP's wife, who believe that the husband and wife both must be Christians so as not to be 'unequally yoked', marriage must come before sex, etc) do believe that the Bible calls for traditional gender roles. A literal interpretation of many Bible passages, especially the (in-)famous 'wives, submit to your husband' phrase would naturally lead to that. We're not here to argue theology about which interpretation is right, but statistically, many devout Christian couples I know adhere to this ideology. The husband is the 'head of the house', makes the decisions, the wife follows and supports. Naturally, in that case, the husband would toil to support the family as the main breadwinner as well, as an equally literal interpretation of several Biblical passages suggest.

 

I have known very, very few career-minded and very ambitious women who are also hardcore Christians, hence my suggestion that the OP should not be looking amongst hardcore Christians for them.

 

I don't know what part of the country that you live in but you are very wrong. There are many devout Christian women who are extremely ambitious and work oriented, especially in the New England states. One of my ex gf's was probably even more devout and "religious" than my current wife, but was a full time PA (physician assistant) and worked just as hard as I did during med school. Pick any other field, and I think you'd find many women who would not only disagree with you, but find your comment and insinuations to be insulting.