Post Affair - WW wants divorce?

[AloneAndWaiting]

25+ years of marriage with two wonderful grown children 22,24. Last 5 years without kids at home best ever. She is mature, intelligent, has a great job and an executive position with academic institution. But her public self was never as strong as her private self. She was emotionally abused as child by alcholic father and victim mother. Father had affairs and broke her heart when she was 35 when he confessed to faimily that he sired another family and had been visiting them and supporting them for years. So WW has self-esteem, self-love issues and has been on depression medication for 5 years or so. But past MC counseling seemed to be successful and I learned a lot about her and did my 180 years ago to better live with her depression without getting frustrated or angry. She gained a lot of weight last summer and started drinking more and seemed withdrawn and totally uninterested in sex, but she was still as happy as ever (which is not a lot when you are depressed) and we were dating, fun, active, traveling, sharing life as usual and enjoying it more without kids. . . life is good was our motto.

 

But while checking online phone bills in December (which I never do since they were on autopay), I discovered her long time mentor and consultant who lives out of town crossed the line and turned trips to town and joint trips to conferences into rendezvous. It was evident she was not in love from intercepted emails and texts but it went on for 3 or 4 months with probably 3 meetings. He was pursuer. According to OMS, it is not his first time. I sought the advice of MC and she said to gather your evidence to make sure and confront in her office. So I exposed to her and OM and OMS and ended the affair three weeks ago in office with MC. No contact promised and none since. WW was stunned but thankful and I didn't expose to her insitution which would have cost her career but more scared than remorseful.

 

BUT, at the next meeting with MC she says the affair made her believe our marriage was not strong enought so she no longer wants to be married so me. In fact, she has already seen lawyer and signed divorce papers but not filed. I cried and reacted poorly and begged her not to throw us away so easily and just work on affair and what emotional needs caused it?? She said her heart was stone and tears did not matter to her anymore - she never felt right being married and didn't want this to happen again so she just wanted to be alone. MC convinced her that separation was probably recommended to give her time to think.

 

I agreed and spent a week at home waiting for her to talk about separation BUT SHE ACTUALLY RUBBED MY NECK AFTER MC VISIT, WENT OUT TO EAT WITH ME AND SPENT THE NEXT WEEK ENJOYING EACH OTHER with no mention of separation. I went along. She seemed like a different person outside the MC office.

 

So at next MC meeting, she says "I haven't changed my mind. I want a divorce, but I just did not want to push you out. I love you, but it is evident that I don't love you enough and I just want to be alone. I hate conflict. This is too hard. It should be easier." She claims it is not desire to be with someone else. Just desire to be alone. And think.

 

I move out next day. Today is end of day 2. I've read Surviving an Affair and many other forums over the last weeks trying to make sense of this. I found a lot of good insight here and joined because quite frankly, I have no one to talk to and the bottom of the roller coaster gets scary.

 

MaryJane14 - I've read hundred of your posts - you seem to have real insight into the withdrawal stage?? Other former wayward spouses?? Is this withdrawal?? Is this fog?? Is this midlife crisis?? Is this real??

 

I'm past the "bad reaction" phase and read all the divorce busting tips of what to do in separation and I am accepting of the reality of where I am and what I need to do to make separation "effective". But I see MaryJane14's advice that separation is not helpful. So after just dealing with pain of being "homeless" and "alone" yesterday, today I'm obsessing if I'm doing the right thing by meeting her wish for time alone (as alternative to divorce that sounded great!). But this is too important to make mistakes. Knowing what she might be thinking and what I might be facing would help a lot.

Edited February 21, 2011 by AloneAndWaiting

[whichwayisup]

She's in a fog and very confused, not a time for her to be making such drastic decisions. But, you know what? Worse case senario.. You get divorced by her own doing. let her go, distance yourself, detach, act like you don't care either way anymore. TRUST ME, if she sees this, she'll react and wonder. Let her see what life will be like without you. She needs to experience this and also, no more begging. I know you're hurting like hell, but all that does is make her feel powerful.

 

How are your kids handling this? do they know what's up?

 

Also, why is she one way in MC and changes once MC is over? Bring this up in counselling.

[Distant78]

25+ years of marriage with two wonderful grown children 22,24. Last 5 years without kids at home best ever. She is mature, intelligent, has a great job and an executive position with academic institution. But her public self was never as strong as her private self. She was emotionally abused as child by alcholic father and victim mother. Father had affairs and broke her heart when she was 35 when he confessed to faimily that he sired another family and had been visiting them and supporting them for years. So WW has self-esteem, self-love issues and has been on depression medication for 5 years or so. But past MC counseling seemed to be successful and I learned a lot about her and did my 180 years ago to better live with her depression without getting frustrated or angry. She gained a lot of weight last summer and started drinking more and seemed withdrawn and totally uninterested in sex, but she was still as happy as ever (which is not a lot when you are depressed) and we were dating, fun, active, traveling, sharing life as usual and enjoying it more without kids. . . life is good was our motto.

 

But while checking online phone bills in December (which I never do since they were on autopay), I discovered her long time mentor and consultant who lives out of town crossed the line and turned trips to town and joint trips to conferences into rendezvous. It was evident she was not in love from intercepted emails and texts but it went on for 3 or 4 months with probably 3 meetings. He was pursuer. According to OMS, it is not his first time. I sought the advice of MC and she said to gather your evidence to make sure and confront in her office. So I exposed to her and OM and OMS and ended the affair three weeks ago in office with MC. No contact promised and none since. WW was stunned but thankful and I didn't expose to her insitution which would have cost her career but more scared than remorseful.

 

BUT, at the next meeting with MC she says the affair made her believe our marriage was not strong enought so she no longer wants to be married so me. In fact, she has already seen lawyer and signed divorce papers but not filed. I cried and reacted poorly and begged her not to throw us away so easily and just work on affair and what emotional needs caused it?? She said her heart was stone and tears did not matter to her anymore - she never felt right being married and didn't want this to happen again so she just wanted to be alone. MC convinced her that separation was probably recommended to give her time to think.

 

I agreed and spent a week at home waiting for her to talk about separation BUT SHE ACTUALLY RUBBED MY NECK AFTER MC VISIT, WENT OUT TO EAT WITH ME AND SPENT THE NEXT WEEK ENJOYING EACH OTHER with no mention of separation. I went along. She seemed like a different person outside the MC office.

 

So at next MC meeting, she says "I haven't changed my mind. I want a divorce, but I just did not want to push you out. I love you, but it is evident that I don't love you enough and I just want to be alone. I hate conflict. This is too hard. It should be easier." She claims it is not desire to be with someone else. Just desire to be alone. And think.

 

I move out next day. Today is end of day 2. I've read Surviving an Affair and many other forums over the last weeks trying to make sense of this. I found a lot of good insight here and joined because quite frankly, I have no one to talk to and the bottom of the roller coaster gets scary.

 

MaryJane14 - I've read hundred of your posts - you seem to have real insight into the withdrawal stage?? Other former wayward spouses?? Is this withdrawal?? Is this fog?? Is this midlife crisis?? Is this real??

 

I'm past the "bad reaction" phase and read all the divorce busting tips of what to do in separation and I am accepting of the reality of where I am and what I need to do to make separation "effective". But I see MaryJane14's advice that separation is not helpful. So after just dealing with pain of being "homeless" and "alone" yesterday, today I'm obsessing if I'm doing the right thing by meeting her wish for time alone (as alternative to divorce that sounded great!). But this is too important to make mistakes. Knowing what she might be thinking and what I might be facing would help a lot.

 

Dude, all I gotta say right now is you gotta stop being a doormat. Your wife is being really selfish right now from what you've told us. Her reasons for divorce is because she's cheating, and doesn't care about the marriage and ultimately you. You gotta wake up. Your wife is not the person she once was, nor will ever be again. Separation is helpful and so is divorce. It will give you time to heal and to eventually move on, at your pace after what your wife did to you. Cheating is a very serious problem and should not be taken lightly.

 

Remember this: At the end of the day she consciously made the decision to cheat and destroy the marriage, not you. So whatever bullcrap she's saying to you on why she's leaving you and why the marriage sucked don't believe it. Don't believe anything that comes out of her mouth. Just focus on yourself and your healing process. She's acting very selfish right now, and when you're finally moving on, she'll come running back. You should've never moved out of the home. SHE should have moved out.

[Distant78]

She's in a fog and very confused

 

She's not in a "fog" nor is she confused. She knows exactly what she's doing is wrong and doesn't care about her husband or the future consequences.

[AloneAndWaiting]

Correction: LazyJane14 not MaryJane14

 

She has not told our kids or anyone that I know yet including her sister who lives in another town. She has no real close female friends - only work friends. Our kids are both at grad school far away. But she is visiting our son next weekend on a trip planned long ago. Before NC started she said she wanted to make that trip herself alone now but would not tell son as this was birthday trip and she didn't want to ruin it and wanted to keep it fun and not add to his school stress.

 

She said she didn't want to hurt me and didn't want to confront me outside of MC. But she seems confused as even after last MC she said she didn't "want" to do what she is doing but felt she "had to". She just did not have feelings she thought she should have and didn't want to continue faking it. She felt both she and I "deserved better" and she just felt she would be happier alone.

Edited February 21, 2011 by AloneAndWaiting
spelling

[2.50 a gallon]

Why did you move out?

 

This is her doing, if she wants the separation, she can move out.

 

Next weekend while she is off visiting the son, move back in. She had her time you had yours, and you decided you don't like being homeless and have decided to move back home to your house.

[Duckduckgoose]

Move back into your house, she wants out of the marriage she can live on her own without the comfort of the marital residence.

 

Don't start beating yourself up man. I don't know if you plan to or not, but you gave her 25 good years of marriage and 2 wonderful kids which are growing into adults you can be proud of. What is going on right now is because of HER selfish actions and from what you say you are trying everything you can to save the marriage.

 

SHE is the one train-wrecking this relationship, not you! Were you perfect in the marriage, hell no you weren't! No one is! But your actions did not justify her to cheat like this and push for a divorce the way she is!

 

After 25 years she owes you more of an explanation than "You deserve better". What kind of bull**** cop out is that!?

 

Don't worry, you have a lot of folk at LS that will give you advice and feel your pain. Just post here if you're down. Keeping everyone informed of things as they develop is appreciated too

[AloneAndWaiting]

Yes, it is obvious this is not my wife but I keep thinking this has to be some temporary defense mechanism on her part to attack me with divorce and change the conversation from her affair to our marriage. It certainly has worked.

 

But I've already agreed at the MC that I would be the one moving out. She meets alone with MC on Tuesday. MC meets with both of us in two weeks. As much as I don't want to come off as a doormat or wimp or enabler, I don't think breaking my word to either her or MC (who is relatively new to us but used to see our daughter for IC) would be a good choice at a sensitive time like this. In her fog, maybe she really is trying to "villian-ize" me and I would not want to help prove her point by not being true to my word.

 

Isn't that the irony here. We went from exposure to me defending myself.

 

But this is all so crazy, I am still in denial. This was not a bad marriage!!! She was vulnerable and is smart enough to see she was suckered by a guy who totally abused her by using his position as mentor to satisfy his selfish interests. I think she just can't handle the guilt and shame and is lashing out to try and escape from looking inside herself - and it makes a better story when it does come out if "marriage was on the rocks". But she is not that manipulative - at least not intentionally. Anyone you ask at her job would never believe what she has done and is doing. Not less than 6 months ago, she was bringing two of her female employees to our house to have me counsel them on their marital issues as an "enlightened and evolved husband". If you knew her position, you would see it is totally against all the values and principles she is responsible for upholding - and training others to uphold.

Edited February 21, 2011 by AloneAndWaiting

[Meatballsmom]

I think you have been out maneuvered.

 

She is worried that exposure will end her career, and that is part of her signing the divorce papers.

 

Next part she wants you out of the house, and guess what, she wins again

 

She doesn't want anybody to know, it is called covering your a$$. And you are the doormat fall guy

 

Boy does she have your number

 

First thing: Cheaters LIE, Cheaters Lie!

 

Second thing: Divorce is war!

 

You must expose her to her work. If she looses her careeer, it was her career decision to have the affair, it was her decision to put her career in jeopardy

 

By not fighting back you are enabling her, in essence approving of her actions.

 

Get back into the house. To heck with what the MC says. Have you seen an IC, if not do so before the next weekend!!

 

She wants to go alone to see your son. And tell him her wild story, Cheaters Lie!

 

By not exposing, you are in also lieing by omission.

 

You have lost you wife for now. Do not put your relationship with your boys on the line also.

 

Time for you to quit being a doormat, get you own IC, and begin to fight back

[AloneAndWaiting]

I agree and so would most others - that really is what my instincts want to do - but it feels like that kind of behavior comes from fear not love. But part of my 180 was to learn not to fear, but to love and see others attacking me as an expression of their fear, which is really a call for love (the book was aptly titled Love is letting go of Fear). That made such a difference in my life, I don't want to abandon it now with the person most I want to show Love to. Attacking back just creates more fear.

 

Her actions are truly out of fear of the past extending into the future. I need her to see she need not fear so she can live - with me - in the present.

 

She lied, but she is not a lier. She cheated, but she is not a cheater. She betrayed me, but she is not a betrayer. And now I believe she is trying to unravel what she and remember who she was.

 

I could easily do all of the attacking you suggest, but would it just accomplish a short term fear-based response and we'll just be two steps back?

Edited February 21, 2011 by AloneAndWaiting

[Owl]

Unfortunately my friend, Ladyjane hasn't posted here in quite some time...which is a shame, because she was an awesome advice giver!

 

With that said...

 

I suggest that you go back into your next MC session and inform your wife that you are not willing to leave the house, nor are you willing to pursue any form of seperation at this time.

 

If she wants divorce, if she wants seperation, then she's welcome to leave and explore that on her own if she feels she needs to.

 

Don't support her choices if you don't agree with them.

 

Make it clear to her that you don't agree with her assessment of the marriage. I'd also discuss with your MC (and your wife present) the concept of "the love bank" in marriagebuilders.

 

You might want to go take a look at their website...there are some great materials there. I'd also recommend reading the books "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs/Her Needs"....both can give you some great insight.

 

I'm NOT fond of their forums, as they at one point became very, very 'this way or the highway' in mindset.

 

Don't accept that it's over. Your wife is going through the withdrawl phase after having had an affair...she's not capable of affection or love for you at this point. BUT...this is often a TEMPORARY situation. Again, readup over on MB and get some info there.

 

And do NOT agree to anything you're not in agreemant with.

[AloneAndWaiting]

Thank you OWL. I read many of your posts too in addition to LadyJanes as well which is what attracted me to this site. You two were often in the same thread agreeing with each other, but she had a real insight it seemed into the post-affair WW mind. I was actually at MB first and participated there prior to exposure and read SAA, but as you said they all turned on me because I would not follow their Nuclear Explosion Tell Everyone Everything exposure rule. Betrayed or not, my wife has worked very hard and long to get to the position she has and I did not have to expose to her coworkers and supervisors to stop the affair. But since I did not drink the MB kool aid - they just explained everything since as due to my failure to take their exposure advice. (BTW, if you read SAA, there is nothing in there about how you expose as long as exposure effectively ends the affair, creates NC and starts withdrawal. That seems to have evolved since in the discussion board.)

 

So that's why I'm here - looking for people that have been where she's at to help me understand if I need to push, how much I need to push and when. You seem to think two weeks will be enough. I'm starting to think so too but I've got to do it in a way that seems like a good boundary being set - not just doing things my way. My wife will spin any pressure as evidence of past control issues that I've worked so hard to avoid throughout this. She want so badly for me to be angry so it would justify her decision. That's why I loved that book. When people do that you just Love them more and you usually eventually get it back from them.

 

Because of the affair, it's hard not to want to attack more.

[Woggle]

You are showing her so much more consideration and respect than she is showing you. She is in the affair fantasy land so of course she will spin everything in order to make you look bad. Nothing you can say or do is right at this point.

 

I would divorce her and use the threat of exposure as leverage to get her to play nice in court. At this point the woman you thought she was is gone.

[Duckduckgoose]

My mom's best friend's daughter is very accomplish pediatrician in Louisiana. She was with her now exH since high school. He is a very accomplished chef.

 

He left her for another woman. Her way of dealing with it was to hold a funeral for him and now he is dead to her. She considers him a dead man, and it's true, the man she loved and married for so long is dead... the man now is a piece of ****.

 

I kind of wondered why a chef would leave a doctor but he's very very in demand and makes about the same money she does as a doctor. I won't be eating at his restaurants that's for damn sure. But if I have kids one day I will take them to her practice.

 

So treat her like she's dead when the time comes... because she is dead. Dead to you and dead to the marriage and life you had. The "person" you see is the shell, the shell of what she was but isn't anymore... like the person in the casket is the shell of what they were but are not anymore.

[AloneAndWaiting]

You guys sound kind of dismal. Isn't it too early for that? My hope is from another book that had this in it talking about where she is at right now:

 

What the WW searched for and accepted is not necessarily the lover, but how the lover made her feel; that what she sought is not a replacement for the BS but an alteration of her basic sense of self; what the WW needed can be found with your partner, if she's willing to open yourself up to the opportunity. This can be done without guilt and remorse with the BS. It cannot never be done with eventual guilt or remorse without the BS.

Her belief that the marriage is flawed becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. She never communicate to her BS in ways that let them know what she was asking for. She never gave the belief a chance to change because she was more comfortable in the role of victim – a role which conveniently allowed her to be guilt free about meeting or caring for BS needs.

Her situation could turn out to be less bleak if she doesn’t allow the sense of hopelessness to dictate her behavior. She is validly feeling the feeling of hopelessness, but that feeling is no more accurate than the feelings from the affair she is trying to process. It would be an equally sad mistake to act on those uncertain feeling now and forego an exceptional opportunity to communicate to her partner how to please her.

I need to share this with the MC - those two bold statements describe exactly where I think she is at.

[Distant78]

You guys sound kind of dismal. Isn't it too early for that? My hope is from another book that had this in it talking about where she is at right now:

 

What the WW searched for and accepted is not necessarily the lover, but how the lover made her feel; that what she sought is not a replacement for the BS but an alteration of her basic sense of self; what the WW needed can be found with your partner, if she's willing to open yourself up to the opportunity. This can be done without guilt and remorse with the BS. It cannot never be done with eventual guilt or remorse without the BS.

Her belief that the marriage is flawed becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. She never communicate to her BS in ways that let them know what she was asking for. She never gave the belief a chance to change because she was more comfortable in the role of victim – a role which conveniently allowed her to be guilt free about meeting or caring for BS needs.

Her situation could turn out to be less bleak if she doesn’t allow the sense of hopelessness to dictate her behavior. She is validly feeling the feeling of hopelessness, but that feeling is no more accurate than the feelings from the affair she is trying to process. It would be an equally sad mistake to act on those uncertain feeling now and forego an exceptional opportunity to communicate to her partner how to please her.

I need to share this with the MC - those two bold statements describe exactly where I think she is at.

 

She put your life at risk and you made the worst decision by moving out. You gotta do the 360 on her ass, not the 180. Being cold to her is not attacking. All of this stuff about her "finding herself" and her "self-fulfilling prophey" is nothing but meaningless justifications. You don't need some book to know that she cheated because she wanted to. Plain and simple.

[AloneAndWaiting]

So let's play it out:

 

"Why are you here? Didn't you agree to give me time to work on myself? I knew you wouldn't live up to your word - this is why I need out of this marriage. You have to control the situation and me. Please get out or I'm calling the attorney and filing the divorce papers I've already signed!! I told the MC you wouldn't keep your word."

 

And my reply . . .

[Woggle]

Just say nothing and get a good lawyer. She is the one that is playing hardball so don't feel guilty about playing it back.

[AloneAndWaiting]

That's where I always get confused and want to hear from women that have been in this situation:

 

1. You really have decided to stop the affair. You have no contact and plan no contact.

 

2. You are so shaken from the affair that you decide you just want to be alone without anyone. You are independent enough and financially able to do so. And after all, that's what your dad did to your mom after she discovered his affair.

 

3. But you are uncertain about divorce, so you agree to separation and your husband volunteers to leave because he wants to show you support and make your time more comfortable - a sign of the caring and protective man he really always has been and still is.

 

If anyone is out there that has been this woman - i'm trying to understand what she is thinking and what I can do - other than be alone and wait. Do you really want me to confront you that I no longer feel the separation is working (after only one week) and I've decided to come home and we'll work this out together?

Edited February 23, 2011 by AloneAndWaiting

[Meatballsmom]

My divorce did not meet any of your conditions. However, most of my friends, fellow workers, associates have been through a divorce, and some of their stories are similar.

 

That is they pretended to go to MC, then used that to give their XH the story that they needed space to think things through in order to get him out of the house. It was a game to get him to go and then they turned around and used that to say that he had abandoned them.

 

Two of my co-worker friends had carefully hidden their continued on going affairs with their bosses, and both, when exposed lost their high paying jobs. This broke up the affair for good.

 

Both were humilated, one tried to reconcile, but her XH would have nothing to do with her.

 

My main concern here is your two boys. They have to be told. Do not let her spin her story to them. By not informing them you are lieing to them, and this is thier family that is being destroyed.

 

You are treading on thin ice here. Both of my co-workers children will have nothing to do with them. Both have grandchildren that they have never held or seen.

 

You are not doing anybody any favors by playing doormat. This affair needs to be exposed to her family, and her work place. She needs to face the music for what she has done. This was her choice, to ruin her life and your family.

 

If nothing else, you need to set and example for your boys should this ever happen to them.

 

She is already gone, so what is there to loose?

 

And even if you continue to play doormat and she does come back, what kind of example are you setting for the future? She will do it again.

 

The MC has led you down a fools path, get your own counseling

 

This weekend go with her, expose to your son and give him the chance to ask the two of you his questions.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Meatballsmom

[notagame]

You're not going to gain anything by listening to a lot of cheaters man. You just need to man up and protect yourself. Show her you're not someone to **** with and trust me she'll calm all of that attitude down. You moved out and let that woman conduct her affair in your home. BIG NO-NO.

[imagine]

Pay attention to Meatballsmom.

 

Right now she is an alien. While she is in the fog there is no evidence of your old wife. Expose her, not for vengeance, but to improve your marriage.

 

On week should be sufficient to get her bearings, now go home!

[Darth Vader]

So let's play it out:

 

"Why are you here? Didn't you agree to give me time to work on myself? I knew you wouldn't live up to your word - this is why I need out of this marriage. You have to control the situation and me. Please get out or I'm calling the attorney and filing the divorce papers I've already signed!! I told the MC you wouldn't keep your word."

 

And my reply . . .

 

 

Should be: Get your cheating whore ass the HELL out of my house, bitch! Throw her s h i t out!

 

That's what you say, and that's what you do, don't let her turn your family and children against you! SHE WILL DO IT! Take your BALLS BACK!

[Owl]

I'm going to say this....

 

A woman cannot be in love with a man that she doesn't respect.

 

A woman cannot respect a man that she can walk all over.

 

By insisting on what you need to recover your marriage...you will eventually gain her respect.

 

By giving into what she wants, rather than what your marriage needs...you will lose her respect.

 

Trust me...I've been through this. My marriage is happily recovered.

 

If you follow the advice your MC gave you...if you seperate and leave...she'll continue what she's doing and you will end up in divorce.

 

If you take ACTION to resolve this situation...you run some short term risks, but it's the more likely path to reconciliation.

 

Don't be afraid to challenge your MC...and/or get a new one if this one doesn't "fit" for both of you.

[PeachyPink]

That's where I always get confused and want to hear from women that have been in this situation:

 

1. You really have decided to stop the affair. You have no contact and plan no contact.

 

2. You are so shaken from the affair that you decide you just want to be alone without anyone. You are independent enough and financially able to do so. And after all, that's what your dad did to your mom after she discovered his affair.

 

3. But you are uncertain about divorce, so you agree to separation and your husband volunteers to leave because he wants to show you support and make your time more comfortable - a sign of the caring and protective man he really always has been and still is.

 

If anyone is out there that has been this woman - i'm trying to understand what she is thinking and what I can do - other than be alone and wait. Do you really want me to confront you that I no longer feel the separation is working (after only one week) and I've decided to come home and we'll work this out together?

This post, as well as many of your others, describe your wife as a classic Conflict Avoider.

 

http://www.health.am/psy/avoidant-personality-disorder/

 

I hope this helps you gain a little insight into her thinking.