Looking for unbiased guidance

[wiroad]

Okay nothing here is going to be new or unique, I am just looking for some unbiased guidance. I will try to keep this brief.

 

We have been married for 16 years, together for 19. We have two children. We are both well employed. About 10 years ago I withdrew emotionally from the marriage because of another personal loss. Basically bad coping skills. After a period of time of this she found someone else. Evenutally that snapped me out of it. It took awhile but it seemed we had moved beyond that. Then she found someone else. Finally after I felt sure of it I confronted her. We went to counseling again things seemed to get better. Finally there was a third incident and I filed for divorce. We reconciled last fall and dismissed the divorce. Then this spring I realized that she is at least in contact with one of the guys. Over all of this is a drinking issue that she has refused to acknowledge. At this point I tell her that reconciling was probably the wrong decision and that I am considering moving out. She then apparently cuts off all ties (at least as far as I can tell) and goes to AA for about a week. Eventually she starts drinking again and I move out.

 

That brings us to present. She tells me she wants me back, that she is not in contact with anyone, and not drinking. I really don't know if she is drinking, if she is, its at a reduced level. I do believe she wants me back, the real question is, should I go back. On the one hand if she is hardwired to cheat then why would I? On the other if she isn't, she made a choice to cheat, so why would I?

 

She is a great person in many ways. She is smart, funny, pretty and a good mom. She is also insecure and does not listen to anything positive I say only hearing the bad and often turning the good around so that it is bad.

 

I hate that we are not together, that our family is imploding, that financially this really sucks, and that like it or not, since I left many will think I am the one at fault. My conselor told me years ago now that it was basically doomed. I do love her, or at least I love her at times. There are other times that I feel like I could kill her (well you know what I mean, not literally, neither of us are abusive).

 

I don't want to make this a poll. What I really want to know is, does anyone truly believe that after all that, it can be salvaged? I have told her that at this point I would rather be wrong about breaking up than wrong about staying together. I have not filed as of now. I can stay where I am at for several more months. Evenutally I will need to do something though for both of our sakes. This is taking a toll on her physically and I don't want to see that either. She call constantly. Most of the time its trying to get me to come back. Other times she is lashing out at me. Where do I go from here? Divorced friends say leave, married say stay.

[Auroracoladybug]

My honest feeling is that anyone can be who they want to be and everything is possible. There is always a possibility to salvage a good marriage but it is up to you and her. There needs to be a shared goal and commitment. She needs to stay in AA and you need Al anon, you need a counselor that doesn't say it is doomed...Ultimately you need to do what is right for you and the kids.

[GorillaTheater]

Can your marriage be salvaged? Probably so. But only at great cost to your dignity, self-respect and happiness.

 

Your call.

[imagine]

I agree with Aurora- first AA. The affair is also a drug.

 

Manage AA first. Then look at the affair. NC for her with both drugs.

[runrocket]

Oh my friend you are in a tough situation. I hate it for you, but my advice is to run not walk to the nearest divorce attorney. Your wife has a lot of issues she needs to work through on her own. The best thing you can do for her is let her go. Maybe this will be a catalyst for real change in her life.

 

If she was unfaithful once 10 years ago. It's a slip. 3 times is a lack of moral character. Something she needs to address within herself.

 

AA can be useful for alcoholism but it sounds like there is a deeper issue that she needs to talk to a couselor about.

 

Save yourself. Save your kids. Walk away.

[1Angel]

I don't think your marriage savable. Sorry.

[LocalColor]

In your post, you say "neither of you are abusive" ... I think you're in denial. She sounds awfully abusive. It's possible that if she is trying to make amends, and work a program then maybe, MAYBE a few years up the road you can consider a true reconciliation.

[delajoonal]

start with this is an issue from your W childhood..or something there of...

 

she is trying to self-medicate something causing her great pain emotionally.

 

this can be very personal, so i won't ask any questions...

 

but with the cheating, prolly needs major validation, adventure of an A the thrill is just like a drug...adrenaline rush, the booze, another way to cope and cover up something that is hurting her/W?

 

so maybe before you talk about getting back together.. i would suggest sitting down and talking to her and asking her to open up with you about what is really going on? or if not with you, an IC. or even group therapy..

 

AA is fine but in this case, i believe she may need the IC first to figure out what her wounds are that need the cheating and booze to cover up the pain:(

 

sorry for both of you...ALL of what you both are going thru is extremely painful...

 

good luck and please keep posting and reading too..K;)

Edited October 15, 2009 by delajoonal
spelling oops!

[trippi1432]

Your situation is much like mine, I loved an alcoholic with all my heart and it was my emotional undoing. He left six weeks ago, tried to reconcile two weeks ago and now has moved on with another woman. I tried AA to help myself through all of this, but decided that I need to be happy for me....you cannot change an alcoholic, they have to change themselves and they will backslide. If not, they may not be the happiest of dry drunks either.

 

I have a lot of anger to get through due to the alcoholism, the way he treated us and such, not physically abusive, but emotionally abusive. Even though he left, he flip flops, nice one minute and hateful the next. I finally filed for the divorce yesterday because in the long run, it's just not worth the emotional investment to love someone who cannot love themselves.

 

I wish you the best.

 

Trippi

[tojaz]

WiRoad, To answer your question of if your marriage is salvageable, I believe that any marriage can be saved. Although some marriages, like physical abuse, should not.

 

It all boils down to what you can accept and what you can't. Can put her affairs in the past, and I mean really in the past, to be worked through and then never brought up again? Can you rebuild the trust that is broken between you? Is she really done drinking? Is she fully committed and willing to do whatever it takes to make the marriage right again?

 

I would think that those are the questions you need to answer for yourself, because that is what it's going to take. There is no marriage without trust, take it from someone with some trust issues. If your constantly wondering where shes been, and who shes with, or rooting through the house looking for bottles, your probably better off letting her go because thats no kind of life for either of you. If you think you will be able to trust her again, and you want to, then I'd say you have a shot, but it will be a lot of work on both of your parts.

TOJAZ

[floridapad]

I would definately not take her back....unless she had some REAL intensive counseling for long periods of time 6 to 12 months (I would wait until she did this to take her back). She needs to address her issues before you could ever trust her again. Taking her back now would just be another quick fix to make herself feel better. Once she got you back she would withdraw back to what makes her unhappy deep down. She may not even know what that is. Until she finds happiness from the inside you will always be on a roller coaster. If you love her and can get past the affairs (be very honest with yourself on that one), then let her figure out her Sh*t at a counselor AA, retreat, whatever. YOU need to know she has made the deep down changes. Is the marriage salvagble??? Yes, but only if she can save herself first and you can trust it and get past all the history.

[giotto]

it can be done, but it will be a hell of a rocky ride. Are you ready for that?

[wiroad]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Trippi in particular I hear you and feel for you too. It is about what I can accept and what I can do as much as anything.

 

I am certian she is drinking (I took advantage of an opportunity to snoop in the recycle bin). I don't want to go through this any more. She tries so hard to convince me to come back (baking me things, buying small presents, sending me nice notes, etc) but she is not stoping the drinking. Because she denies that she is she is also lying. I haven't told her I looked and I don't intend to. Thus far I tried to emphasize the need for time to heal and to work on ourselves. Unfortunately when she calls 6 or more times a day I get frustrated. We go over the same ground repeatedly with no change.

 

It took me two years the last time to really start believing we were going in the right direction, I just don't have the energy to do that again. I guess it is instructive that she has not asked for counseling and she has not volunteered to go to AA to prove she is not drinking. She does have issues that are long standing. If for no other reason she should return to counseling to deal with those. She has gone in the past but feels there is no further benefit to going, or at least that was her postion the last time I raised the issue.

 

It is probably best for her as much as me if I were to file. It is just not what I want to do. I probably should go to counseling too so I can give up the anger I have at her for screwing up a perfectly good thing. I know that is not completely fair but I do feel that way and I know I will never be able to be the best I can be until I let that go.

 

Well thanks again. I will keep reading and thinking.

[trippi1432]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Trippi in particular I hear you and feel for you too. It is about what I can accept and what I can do as much as anything.

 

I am certian she is drinking (I took advantage of an opportunity to snoop in the recycle bin). I don't want to go through this any more. She tries so hard to convince me to come back (baking me things, buying small presents, sending me nice notes, etc) but she is not stoping the drinking. Because she denies that she is she is also lying. I haven't told her I looked and I don't intend to. Thus far I tried to emphasize the need for time to heal and to work on ourselves. Unfortunately when she calls 6 or more times a day I get frustrated. We go over the same ground repeatedly with no change.

 

It took me two years the last time to really start believing we were going in the right direction, I just don't have the energy to do that again. I guess it is instructive that she has not asked for counseling and she has not volunteered to go to AA to prove she is not drinking. She does have issues that are long standing. If for no other reason she should return to counseling to deal with those. She has gone in the past but feels there is no further benefit to going, or at least that was her postion the last time I raised the issue.

 

It is probably best for her as much as me if I were to file. It is just not what I want to do. I probably should go to counseling too so I can give up the anger I have at her for screwing up a perfectly good thing. I know that is not completely fair but I do feel that way and I know I will never be able to be the best I can be until I let that go.

 

Well thanks again. I will keep reading and thinking.

 

I would suggest the counseling for you first before you file. The anger is a hard emotion to deal with too, I can do very well for several days until I have to see my H or talk to him on the phone and then it is just rehashing it all over again. He blames me, I blame him....it goes on and on.....never pretty. It was interesting when I took my son to counsel the other day, the counselor asked him if he knew why his parent's split up and he said, "Yeah, they fought all the time, they never saw eye to eye on things." It's just hard dealing with someone that can't handle alcohol....it's like their brain functions differently even when they aren't drunk. Everything is an argument, drunk or not.

 

The thing he didn't tell her was that he also says things like "Why does dad always do this when he's drinking?". Breaks my heart. I know that I harbor a lot of anger....children's birthday parties aren't meant to become a "kegger". I was looking back at some childhood pics of my son, and somewhere in the background is a beer can...it's just sad. I used to love cookouts, until my H was so drunk while he was grilling he couldn't even enjoy the food and was impossible to deal with. He wasn't really a mean person, could be very funny....but I found out via Al-Anon, I became extremely angry in the relationship, so I am trying to deal with years of anger, resentment and now the anger and resentment that comes with divorce. It's like a "double-dose" which is why I suggest you seek counseling to really explore your feelings and work on yourself first. Who knows, maybe you will set an example for her and she might follow....

[PWSX3]

Sorry I didn't read everyone's replies since I'm headed out the door but here are a couple things I would suggest.....

 

When my former wife left & I started to see a counselor for me he had me make a list of things that I would like in a partner. Then I had to look at that list & see if my at the time W fit that list.

 

If she is serious about wanting you back she should be showing you not asking you.

You said she went to AA but quit, if she was serious then she would still be there, she would be looking at a Celebrate Recovery at a local church, she would be seeing a counselor to figure out why she is doing what she is.....

 

Once she is doing that then both of you could start going to MC & SLOWLY start rebuilding your marriage.

It has taken a long time for this train wreck to finally derail & it's going to take a long time to put it back on the track but I feel she isn't showing you anything.

 

She is missing how the feel of the family not you.

 

Set down some rules that would show you she is serious & at the same time you could be working on the things you know are your part in the bad marriage. You work on yours she works on hers, then you both work together.