Coping with gender inequality

[Van Norden]

Thought of bumping my venting thread, but afterwards I got the idea of starting a new one since it may be more common than what I expected...

 

One of the most overwhelming negative thoughts I have to carry throughout the day has to do with gender inequality through social circles. I mean, the "men chase, women get chased" philosophy. Male neediness and female comfort. I know there are plenty of women who are struggling a lot at mourning their exes and I don't want to disrespect any of you, but let's get to the point...

 

In my case, I think of my ex. She was far from perfect: small, curvy, face with some scars. Not to talk about her insecurities and mental disturbances. For me she was perfect, and my friends bash me for being unable to move on since "she was not really that stunning". Nevermind. As I've told you countless times, she was busty. Really busty. Exhuberant. I know we men tend to lose control at busty women, even those who prefer small tits. I know she doesn't have to worry about her perfect weight. She just has to stand in front of a column at a disco and she'll get TONS of men approaching her, and if she doesn't and gets her tight inflamed at a moment, she'll get a better cleavage the next time. Now I'm not accusing her of promiscuity (not by what I knew), but it would still be natural for her to take advantage of her facilities.

 

What troubles me A LOT is that this won't work the same for both parts. Whereas busty curvy women have their own league of drooling men (I came first, in fact), there's a more strict body standard for men. Now, I'm good looking, getting leaner and bigger through working out a lot, but I'm no one of those gym rats that fit to the social beauty stereotype. EVEN IF I WAS, I should do a lot of chasing too in order to get laid. I would approach 30 to succeed with 5-10. She just has to wait to SELECT one of 50.

 

Now, on my mental disturbances: I have them and I'm struggling to have them fixed, which I doubt she ever considers - no real changes will affect her social life. She looks pretty and maybe one, two men will not tolerate her weaknesses and flaws. Fine, next one will do good. And, most probably, will be hotter than me and the other two. Maybe one day she finds out that muscles and looks aren't everything (she was far from being shallow, considering she desired me with so much passion in my skinnier days and also supported my hangoverish morning self). Maybe she misses whatever-she-liked of my person. Maybe my flaws do not weight so much and she's able to switch her "love me" to "in love with me". All in all, one of the last things she said is that she didn't find any single flaw with me, just that she was unable to get into that state. But even when that day arrives, if it does, she may be held back in her own insecurity/pride/prejudices and will just wait for me to knock at her door (which, at the moment, I wouldn't do just for the sake of NC's efficacy). If I don't, well, too bad. Another one will come. On the other hand, I must stay active, I must travel, I must find new hangouts. It's not that easy for an average looking man as it is for an average woman.

 

This, summed up to the fact that she didn't work nor struggle as I did for our relationship, fills me with a sense of inferiority and injustice that drives me mad. Whereas everyone advices me to think of myself as the better part of the couple, from the moment she dumped me I know deep in my gut that I wasn't. And I know that she doesn't have to wait nor struggle much longer to get a better version of what she used to bang (if she hasn't gotten it yet), since that's how things work nowadays in the thirsty men era. Count me in, in fact.

 

Anyone here has thought about it? Am I just whining for the sake of it? Any self-centering thoughts to avoid getting MORE depressed than I am already? Tried switching to the self-assured attitude of "valuing something for what you've worked for", but this would work only if I reaped direct results. And, to be fairly honest, I'm really skeptical of what future holds for me, now that I'm working hard just to get a cheap piece of what I used to have.

 

P.S. Referring to the suicidal thread another user posted in this same page, I've been considering suicide since my early teens. But more than ever, this recurring self-loathing and despiseful thought for this kind of social conventions worries me too much. I know there are nice women who would kill for someone like me, but they won't struggle to find me or appreciate me as much as I did to find them in the first place. In my early teens used to write looooong, moving suicide notes that I discarded later just as a way of venting (didn't even consider showing 'em to anyone to avoid further worries). Now I'm always fantasizing with the idea of enclosing just a "hey, **** you all, you just lost an awesome person - bye bye!".

Edited April 6, 2015 by Van Norden

[darkbloom]

I think this post was very insightful. I would say you have pegged about 75% of women. They do want to be admired and adored and they do have their pick of the 50 drooling men. I would say that men don't really have to put in that much work anymore because we are kind of in a hook up culture. It's easy to find people to have sex with.

 

I struggle with your analysis personally because I don't want the 50 men drooling over me. I want the guy in the corner sipping his whiskey that didn't notice me. I want someone I can have a conversation with not someone that I can merely sleep with. I get judged as a bimbo blonde by dudes all the time. They assume I'm stupid and treat me as such. When they find out that I'm intelligent and not just going to hook up with them, all 50 of those drooling men run away to the next easy hook up.

 

I don't fit in with the people around me. I think differently and guys just don't get me. I think most other women will have no problem finding guys, I struggle to even make a decent connection with one.

[HeartOfAPhoenix]

With the increased momentum of the feminist movement this thread ballsy.

 

The hill the everyone needs to climb in life is vastly different. Varying differences in slopes and ledges all the way to the top. From easily obtainable to complete impossibility. Nobody will have an equal chance at virtually anything; and yet, there are so many instances of people succeeding when the odds were completely stacked against them.

 

 

While I agree with your post for the most part, it's just another slope in my hill. One that some/most women don't have in theirs. It may not be fair but that's life.

[darkbloom]

I'm a women but I feel ashamed by my generation of women. Yeah, we might have it easier in the terms that the OP described. But that doesn't mean that it's better.

[HeartOfAPhoenix]

I'm a women but I feel ashamed by my generation of women. Yeah, we might have it easier in the terms that the OP described. But that doesn't mean that it's better.

 

 

A slope I will never see.

 

Not trying to say women have it better, just different.

[Jonp219]

Being from NYC.

 

I feel women here just want to have fun. They don't want a relationship but they would love seeing all 50 of those guys line up for her, just so she can reject the majority of them, lead on a few, date one, and mess around till she gets bored. I don't know, I have a cynical view of the date life in my city. I don't mind going out and having fun, but i'm an introvert at heart.

[darkbloom]

Dudes only want to date me for my ass or my boobs.

 

They could care less about anything else.

[fireflywy]

Let me just say this.... my ex gf was a 10. She had an amazing body, beautiful eyes, was bustily enhanced, and had a six pack and a strong body which turned me on like no other.

 

The girl I dated before (I was on here years before) was muscular and built for strength and pleasure.

What can I say? I like muscular and athletic women and they are even HARDER to come by. Lol

 

The former woman (ms brickhouse), I lost and was absolutely crazy for. However, she had been married, divorced, and had dated a guy who broke up with her because she had numerous issues. Could she take any man home and ride the merry go round? Yes she could. However, she had lost those prior to me and me as well.

 

My recent ex, was married for seven years and her husband left her due to her inflexibility. I at firdt overlooked this, faiking to realize that she was very arrogant and self centered. Of course he was a major a-hole so I digress.

 

 

I also, being average myself, let this one go, forced break up, because after a year and half I got little to nothing in the appreciation department and the relationship was very one sided with me doing most of the emotinal work and her effort consisting mainly of her simply being there with little emotional effort.

 

I think what you think every damn day and imagine her with someone else and hope I never run across her sign her new guy.

 

Both of these women, these incredibly ATTRACTIVE women had guys leave them before me, and if they continue on present course will have them leave after me.

 

Whenever you think about how beautiful your ex is, remember this phrase which knce hing hilariously across a bar

"For every hot woman out there....there is a guy sick of her s***t"

Then realize that this wont be your only chance to find someone who stokes your physical fire.

Edited April 9, 2015 by fireflywy

[fireflywy]

P.S. I wasn't trying to offend women with my quote. You can easily modify it to attractive men.

[fireflywy]

P.S.S. You gotta get rid of the picture of the old guy Van. Everytime I respond to your posts I feel like I'm responding to someone very old or someone decayed. LOL I'm pretty sure you're neither.

 

Project some strength man! Put up a Viking sword or a Roman legionaire or something! You're vital guy! A living force!

[darkbloom]

Van, how is this for conversation?

[Els]

OP, there are plenty of men who would never have qualified for male modelling contests, and are in happy relationships. It just takes some luck, some putting yourself out there, and some working on yourself to give the R the best shot of success when you eventually do find someone compatible.

[DannyCA]

I'm taking a few womens studies classes at my university to fulfill my requirements for my degree, so I will give you the fact you are pretty ballsy for posting this (that's a good trait!) Gender inequality applies to both males and females, but where it begins and ends for females is around having a virtually unlimited supply of free things and attention. Do you know why? It's because this self appointed alpha male mindset that so many guys adopt give them some sort of superiority complex, and in turn, to get what they want (sex), they supply average to attractive women with free things and attention. This is only because their desire for "sex" truncates any empathy for how they might make someone feel. How many women that don't fall under the "ideal" standard of beauty set by society do you think get their pick of 50 guys? None of them dude.

 

I get your frustration, there is much truth to what you have said. But when was the last time you had to worry about not being paid the same as a man that does the same job as you? When was the last time you worried about being raped walking back to your car? When was the last time you were stared at like a piece of meat? When was the last time you had unwarranted passes at you that made you fearful or like you were less of a person? When was the last time someone questioned your intelligence because of your gender? See, gender inequality exists for both men and women, but you can see that it's not the same.

 

Now as for all that talk about suicide, let's shake all that. That's not going to do anything for you or anyone around you. A user on her named GrumpyButFun suggested a book to me last year and it is quite possibly one of the best books I have ever read. It's something I read once a year now and I think you should check it out. If you're reading this Jonp219, I think you should too. It's called: Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl. Any synopsis that I can give of the book wouldn't do it any justice...

 

I read in another thread that you like working out, cool cinemas, music, concerts, etc. You sound like someone I would chill with haha. As long as you're cool talking about that stuff with a kavanagh single malt or bulleit on the rocks in your hand lol.

 

Regardless, you sound like you need to take your mind off things. I live in arguably the best brewery city on the west coast. So one thing I do is I go to a brewery and sip a pint of a good, cold ipa on tap, while reading a good book. It's something I find myself doing whenever I need to take a break from school, get my mind off things, or simply relax. I get weird looks every now and then, but to me, coffee shops are over rated. Maybe you can find something that takes your mind off things like that.

Edited April 9, 2015 by DannyCA

[Van Norden]

I struggle with your analysis personally because I don't want the 50 men drooling over me. I want the guy in the corner sipping his whiskey that didn't notice me. I want someone I can have a conversation with not someone that I can merely sleep with.

Wow, sounds like me a couple of years ago. Except for the fact I would have noticed you and would've hell broken loose in some different aspects at that venue.

 

To those who deemed my analysis ballsy, thanks for the compliment! But I don't feel as such (at least this time), since anyone could be trolling a forum behind a false avatar of someone older (Firefly, Henry Miller may have been old, but still he was much more corrosive and stronger than most of us! The fact that he didn't seemed to get over his first romance after sleeping with countless hookers and different women is what he makes me fear a similar outcome, though) without taking any hint of responsability. Still I was pretty damn serious on every point I shouted at (save for the suicide one, that was more a venting one).

 

Now I'm in some hurry and different kinds of homework is awaiting me - plus a trip that will keep me occupied this weekend. I'll try to reply all of you one by one when I have time, which could be in some hours of some days. Anyway, thanks for your implication and honesty.

[Auspecial]

I think this post was very insightful. I would say you have pegged about 75% of women. They do want to be admired and adored and they do have their pick of the 50 drooling men. I would say that men don't really have to put in that much work anymore because we are kind of in a hook up culture. It's easy to find people to have sex with.

 

I struggle with your analysis personally because I don't want the 50 men drooling over me. I want the guy in the corner sipping his whiskey that didn't notice me. I want someone I can have a conversation with not someone that I can merely sleep with. I get judged as a bimbo blonde by dudes all the time. They assume I'm stupid and treat me as such. When they find out that I'm intelligent and not just going to hook up with them, all 50 of those drooling men run away to the next easy hook up.

 

I don't fit in with the people around me. I think differently and guys just don't get me. I think most other women will have no problem finding guys, I struggle to even make a decent connection with one.

 

I find this especially notable, since OP makes so much commentary on looks, as if thats the only or main thing to be concerned about.

[Auspecial]

With the increased momentum of the feminist movement this thread ballsy.

 

The hill the everyone needs to climb in life is vastly different. Varying differences in slopes and ledges all the way to the top. From easily obtainable to complete impossibility. Nobody will have an equal chance at virtually anything; and yet, there are so many instances of people succeeding when the odds were completely stacked against them.

 

 

While I agree with your post for the most part, it's just another slope in my hill. One that some/most women don't have in theirs. It may not be fair but that's life.

 

 

Another interesting thought is, would you prefer to be a woman?

 

Yeah, right. Didn't think so.

[Van Norden]

I find this especially notable, since OP makes so much commentary on looks, as if thats the only or main thing to be concerned about.

Of course they are the real deal. Would you get in bed with someone you didn't like just because he's a "really wonderful and sensitive person"? Please be honest. In my case, I wouldn't even consider dating a woman who I didn't feel physically attracted to, no matter she was a perfect conversational partner. Shallow? I don't think so. More realistic, if anything.

 

By the way, we're talking mainly about hangouts. Are you really so naive to think a girl will ever approach the average nerdy dude with Star Trek tee sipping coke on the corner (not my case) just because her TV interests are common? I don't think so, if any she will look forward to get him into the friendzone. Weird things can happen, too. But we're talking about luck - one in a million.

 

As if I'd like to have been born a woman. I don't know. Probably yes, taking in mind how badly I am coping at the feeling that my ex may get approached 100 times and thus will have much more opportunities to rebuild her sentimental life (or, in any case, to entertain time with cool sex, which is also good) than I have. And still I am bound to work hard for it, when she just has to "just be herself" with no further improvements.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Van Norden

[fireflywy]

Sorry guy. Had no idea who Henry Miller was.

[Van Norden]

Sorry guy. Had no idea who Henry Miller was.

 

Hah, no worries man! Still I laughed at your comment.

[DannyCA]

As if I'd like to have been born a woman. I don't know. Probably yes, taking in mind how badly I am coping at the feeling that my ex may get approached 100 times and thus will have much more opportunities to rebuild her sentimental life (or, in any case, to entertain time with cool sex, which is also good) than I have. And still I am bound to work hard for it, when she just has to "just be herself" with no further improvements.

 

So the underlying idea to this thread about gender inequality is about the fact that you're mad that women (specifically your ex) will have a much easier time getting sex than us men (you) after a break up?

 

If you read my last comment you will see that gender inequality exists for both men and women, but honestly you can't call them the same. Yeah women may have an easier time getting sex because any decent looking woman will have a line of guys waiting, but that doesn't mean it's any easier for them to move on.

 

Attention and free gifts are just about where the pro's in todays society begin and end for women.

[darkbloom]

I find this especially notable, since OP makes so much commentary on looks, as if thats the only or main thing to be concerned about.

 

 

 

I have no control over my looks. I was born the way I was born. When people (men especially) comment on it, it's like thanks dude, but my parents should get all the credit. Just because I am good looking has nothing to do with how I treat other people or my morals and values. And my looks are going to fade as I get older. I am not going to be young and pretty always. I will always be a good person though who enjoys good conversation and wants a dude who just gets what matters.

[Jonp219]

I have no control over my looks. I was born the way I was born. When people (men especially) comment on it, it's like thanks dude, but my parents should get all the credit. Just because I am good looking has nothing to do with how I treat other people or my morals and values. And my looks are going to fade as I get older. I am not going to be young and pretty always. I will always be a good person though who enjoys good conversation and wants a dude who just gets what matters.

 

To an extent doesn't everyone want this?

 

Even the dime in the club who's sitting by the bar will feel intrigued when the next guy starts treating her like a person as opposed to drooling all over her and giving her unnecessary over the top compliments. My rule is never treat someone as more than what they are to you at the moment. She may be beautiful, but that doesn't mean I have to treat her like a queen.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Jonp219

[Van Norden]

So the underlying idea to this thread about gender inequality is about the fact that you're mad that women (specifically your ex) will have a much easier time getting sex than us men (you) after a break up?

 

If you read my last comment you will see that gender inequality exists for both men and women, but honestly you can't call them the same. Yeah women may have an easier time getting sex because any decent looking woman will have a line of guys waiting, but that doesn't mean it's any easier for them to move on.

 

Attention and free gifts are just about where the pro's in todays society begin and end for women.

In fact, what's more, is that I am mad at the fact that I was the one who fought hard for our relationship and yet I am the one who has now to struggle with this mourning and to fight again to find a new person. She just left me as a burden, more than likely will find another one prettier than me just by hanging out quietly and no way to sort out her own insecurities in order to maintain what we used to have. That's what I cry for.

 

As for some other differences..., well, where I live the equality in salaries is a fact. Even I got my CV rejected from places where men weren't allowed. Rapes are rare cases that should not take place, and let's face it: we hope any of you has to encounteer in such situations, which are very unlikely here.

 

I'm not criticizing women. I love women. But I'm fed up of this system we've all built of social differences, be them founded upon a false sense of alpha superiority or not.

[darkbloom]

To an extent doesn't everyone want this?

 

Even the dime in the club who's sitting by the bar will feel intrigued when the next guy starts treating her like a person as opposed to drooling all over her and giving her unnecessary over the top compliments. My rule is never treat someone as more than what they are to you at the moment. She may be beautiful, but that doesn't mean I have to treat her like a queen.

 

Not always. Most girls DO want to be fawned over and told how beautiful they are. They want the attention and the reassurance because their beauty somehow validates them. Most people do not want to be more than a moment.

[Jonp219]

Not always. Most girls DO want to be fawned over and told how beautiful they are. They want the attention and the reassurance because their beauty somehow validates them. Most people do not want to be more than a moment.

 

I've seen both sides of the coin. Normally the girls you're talking about are still stuck in high school (mentally). But I've also met women who see through game and rather have a guy who wants to get to know them instead. Problem is there are rarely any guys who want to pursue that. I believe there are more women who are open to getting to know a person and build something out of it as oppose to men who want something similar. In fact, I see a handful women on here talk about how their ex sucks at participating in in-depth conversations with them, and would rather keep it simple. You're right about the validation thing though, but I think it depends on the sequence. I believe it makes women feel more comfortable with a male when they see that he cares about HER first and her LOOKS second.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Jonp219