Passive Aggressive Ex Boyfriend? He Made Me Question My Sanity the Entire Relationshi

[123confused321]

I could write a novel on the things I went through in the 2.5 years I spent with my ex boyfriend. He broke up with me a month ago. I should have broken up with him around the 3rd month we were together, but he talked me out of it every time. He was a smooth talker, our relationship was a constant struggle of highs and lows, but yet I want him back desperately and don't know why!

 

To give a background, we met when we were 20 in college. For the first 3 months or so, he was prince charming. He worshipped me, continually told me he had no idea why "someone like me" would even look at him, told me I had him in the palm of my hand. Was sweet and attentive, wanted to spend every second with me. We moved really fast, meeting on a Tuesday, having our first date on a Thursday, and becoming boyfriend and girlfriend exactly a week later. He told me he loved me after 2 months, and started talking marriage and "forever" around the 3rd month. But also, around this time, I started to notice some unsettling behavior.

 

The first strange behavior began when he would put words in my mouth. He would completely twist something I had said, leaving me dumbfounded and apologizing for something I didn't even say, and then he would give me the silent treatment. But, at the same time, he was telling me how much he loved me and wanted to marry me.

 

Our first big argument centered around Christmas break. We lived 3 hours apart, and during finals week, I asked when we would see each other when we went home for break. He said, "I don't know, see you in January." Devastated, I left. He panicked, I came out from my final to find an apology card under my windshield wiper in the school parking lot. Turns out, he came and picked me up twice over this month long break, but had to make me sweat it in the process.

 

Over break, however, on New Year's Eve, his mom asked what we were doing that night. He mentioned a party, she simply asked would this be an appropriate place to take me, and he freaked out. They told him to go if he wanted, but he sat and pouted and said "no no no. We will just stay here." From about 3 pm to 11 pm on NYE, he ignored me. While he was in the shower, his dad sat me down and told me, "he pouts. He is a baby. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a baby?" But of course, later that night when he senses he is losing me, he starts with the, "I would spend every minute with you if I could. I would marry you if you'd let me."

 

Things continued to escalate. He began to withhold affection for no reason.

 

He started trying to turn me against my family, telling me "your family doesn't like me," when they were nothing but welcoming and nice to him. He avoided them for an entire year.

 

He tried to embarrass me in front of others -- his family, our friends. He would say degrading things and then say "I was just kidding."

 

The first summer we were apart in college, we went a period of 5 weeks of him not seeing me because he is obsessed with softball. He worked literally about 10 hours a week part-time, so that supposedly prevented him from visiting during the week. And he was so obsessed with softball that he couldn't skip a Friday night to come visit me on the weekends.

 

For our 1 year anniversary, I made him a big breakfast and it was all he could do to get out of bed. He came in from class after lunch, said "I may just go home and play softball tonight." On our anniversary?!? He laid down and slept for 3 hours, with me freaking out thinking, he's not even taking me out? Only to wake up and say, let's go to Olive Garden, after making me panic.

 

On my birthday 2 years ago, he asked me where I wanted to eat. Told me where I wanted was too expensive. Told me I couldn't order a margarita because he wanted to drink and I had to drive. We went out with our friends later, I pulled a chair up next to him, and he told me to take my chair back around the table because he was talking to his friend. He ignored me the entire night, my birthday celebration. But of course, two days later he feels bad, has a "redo" dinner, actually buys me a gift and a card.

 

My birthday this year, he called me at the beginning of the week all excited that he was travelling four hours to play in a sorority softball tournament --- on my birthday, a Saturday. When I got upset, he told me I was "never satisfied." Is it unreasonable to want your boyfriend to spend your birthday with you?

 

Christmas is my favorite time of year. He has managed to ruin it for the 3 years we were together. This past year, I wanted an infinity ring. We left college for Christmas break, he made no plans to see me. Finally, on Christmas Day, after only getting a "Merry Christmas" text in the morning, I text him that night and ask if we can Skype, that it would make my Christmas. He said, "why do we have to Skype? You are never satisfied. Anything would make your day. You're too demanding." So I got upset, told him he made no plans, won't even take 5 minutes to Skype, and didn't even get me a gift (I had given him his 2 weeks prior to make sure he got it). He sends me a text message with a picture of the infinity ring and says, "This is under my tree for you, you ungrateful Bitch!!" It was my fault, of course.

 

Of course the next morning, he insisted that he was coming to pick me up that day, in 3 hours. No question. To try to make up for his horrible behavior.

 

If I wanted to spend the weekend together, which he never did, I was "too demanding." In fact, if I asked for ANYTHING I wanted, it was MY fault. I heard the words "needy," "demanding," "clingy," "unappreciative" so many times.

 

He flat out admitted to me "I don't have a ring on this finger, and until I do, softball and hunting and whatever I do are gonna be top priority, and you can fall wherever you can."

 

My life was a pattern of questioning my sanity. Getting into an argument about him being selfish and placing me last. I would let things bottle up until I couldn't take it anymore, I would be the one going hysterical, crying, wondering what was going on. He would either pretend to be asleep, or listen to me until I was done and say "I think you pretty much covered it," or say "whatever I'm leaving" and go to the gym or something. It left me thinking, I'm over here in shambles, he is totally calm and cool, telling me that I am the issue when I know good and well he was.

 

After a while, they brainwash you, and you truly believe you're the problem! That's their game.

 

I gave everything I had to him. I made him top priority, put his needs before my own. I would make sure he felt loved and special, take him on dates, cook for him, clean for him, take him places, leave him little notes, buy him things that I knew he would like, plan things for us I thought he would enjoy. I supported him, even in his hobbies that took priority over me! I built him up, made him feel good about himself. While all he could do was make me feel like I didn't deserve to feel special.

 

He would barely hold my hand, give me half-hugs. He made the excuse that he's "just not affectionate." He would not make plans with me, even a few hours ahead, much less days or weeks out, even though he could plan for softball weeks in advance. He was "just not a planner." He would usually wait until the end of the day to contact me, usually by text, because he would have every excuse as to why he couldn't talk on the phone. Even still his end would consist of saying ha, oh ok, idk, or ok. It was because he was "just not a communicator." Bottom line, he did what HE wanted to do. And if he knew it was something that would make me happy, he went in the OPPOSITE direction.

 

Anything I wanted, which was essentially just to FEEL WANTED in general, to feel like I wasn't a chore, I was automatically "needy" or "unappreciative."

 

One of our last nights together consisted of this. That morning, he asked "what are you buying me for dinner." I told him I wasn't sure, but texted him that afternoon with what I was craving. I got off of work at 5, was starving, but waited on him to get out of class at 7. He got back, said that he had eaten a late lunch with his buddies and wasn't hungry, when we had a dinner date planned! Told me that I could go a drive-thru, but wouldn't even ride with me!! Then I cried, and he said, "why are you crying over food? You're running our night. Why can't you just enjoy the time I DO GIVE YOU?" Wow.

 

EVERYTHING WAS MY FAULT.

 

Eventually, I began to believe it was my fault.

 

He put me down. If I cleaned something, he had to show me the "right" way to do it. I made the bed the wrong way. When I cooked, he always had a better way I could have done it. He criticized the way I drive. I am a slim person, but he would pinch by "belly fat" and then say "just joking." I had a Master of Accounting degree, but he would tell me "it's not hard, all you do is punch numbers into the calculator." He would tell me that I had no friends, which I did. When I went to the gym with a friend he didn't know one day, he said, "is she even real?"

 

But then, for all of the horrendous things he would do, he would do nice things, and I thought, well this makes up for it right? Wrong.

 

Well, how could this likeable guy that holds doors open for the elderly and says "yes sir" be such a monster? Nobody would believe the things he says/does. We argue, he remains calm, I'm hysterical, and he convinces me that it's MY fault. Am I crazy? That's what he had me thinking. I second guessed every move or thought I had. I was walking on eggshells.

 

But he tells me he loves me and he wants a future with me! He must really love me then!

 

Well, a month ago, after putting my foot down when he tried to blow me off for the second weekend in a row, he broke up with me. Claiming I am "too needy and demanding and am giving him too much added stress."

 

He later admitted that I was only "part of the problem" and that he is just selfish and proud. And that he doesn't want to be in a relationship, period.

 

Later, he says he broke up with me because he wasn't sure I was the one anymore, and now he's sure I'm not.

 

Now, he is seeing another girl, this quickly.

 

Now that I am out of the relationship, I see that something was TERRIBLY wrong. My friends and family tried to tell me the whole time, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I feel like he had me brainwashed.

 

And yet, despite all the bad, I feel trapped. I feel like I STILL want him back.

 

Has anyone had any experiences with a passive aggressive person? From my research, I feel 99% positive this is what I was dealing with. What should I do?????

[Thames Dweller]

the obvious thing, i think you know it is to close the issue. he doesnt sound like a nice guy, fair or have any empathy. the reality is that nothing will change until he changes and he may never change. But you sound like a lovely and caring person and in truth, you deserve someone who would do for you what you did for your ex, whilst also feeling equally in love with you. you might want or need closure and if so, express all the anger and hurt and let him know. it wont make things better but you will feel a weight off your shoulders for doing so. try to get answers to questions you may have in the process but note that he may lie or not play ball at all. in the end however, move on and upwards. and you will but in time, very slowly and painfully but youll get there in time.

[Downtown]

Has anyone had any experiences with a passive aggressive person? From my research, I feel 99% positive this is what I was dealing with. What should I do?????

Confused, you are describing dysfunctional behavior that goes well beyond that of simple passive aggressiveness. The behaviors you describe -- rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you, very controlling behavior, emotional abuse, always being "right," and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic traits of NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and BPD (Borderline PD).

 

I therefore suggest that, to protect yourself from repeating that toxic experience, you read about the warning signs of a personality disorder. Although you are not capable of diagnosing your exBF, you are fully capable of spotting the red flags, i.e., learning what the behavioral symptoms are for the various PDs. Indeed, that is why hundreds of the best hospitals and mental health centers put a description of PD symptoms on their websites. They know that, by educating the lay public to these warning signs, people are far more likely to seek professional help when they need it.

 

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the NPD and BPD traits -- albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why NPD and BPD are said to be "spectrum disorders," which means that everyone exhibits all of the traits to some degree. Such traits become a problem only when they are so strong and persistent that they distort one's perception of other peoples' intention, thus undermining all LTRs. At issue, then, is NOT whether your exBF has such traits. Of course he does. We ALL do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he has the NPD or BPD traits at a strong level. Not having met him, I don't know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can easily learn to spot strong occurrences of such traits. There is nothing subtle about symptoms such as emotional abuse, verbal abuse, pouting, and controlling behavior.

despite all the bad, ...I feel like I STILL want him back and I don't know why.

Withdrawing from such a toxic relationship can be as painful and difficult as withdrawing from heroine or cocaine because such push-away and pull-you-back relationships are very addictive. When a NPDer or BPDer is being good, he is very VERY good. And, when he is being bad, he can be very VERY bad. An abused partner often will hold on for years (15 years in my case), mistakenly believing that if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore him to that wonderful person you saw at the beginning.

His dad told me, "he pouts. He is a baby. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a baby?"

If your exBF has strong BPD traits, he has the emotional development of a 3 or 4 year old child. He therefore is stuck with the primitive ego defenses available to young children. These include denial, pouting, projection, temper tantrums, magical thinking, and black-white thinking.

He started trying to turn me against my family, telling me "your family doesn't like me," when they were nothing but welcoming and nice to him. He avoided them for an entire year.

Because NPDers and BPDers feel a strong need to control your behavior, they typically will try to isolate their partners away from all close friends and family members. It is much easier to control a person when she doesn't have supportive family who would question the things being told to them.

I see that something was TERRIBLY wrong. ...I feel like he had me brainwashed.

If you only feel "brainwashed," consider yourself lucky. It is common for the abused partners of NPDers and BPDers to feel like they are going crazy or somehow losing their minds. It is very disorienting and confusing to be in love with someone who alternately adores you and devalues you. A good description of how this "gaslighting" is done is provided by A.J. Mahari at Borderline Personality - The Quiet Acting In Borderline and The Silent Treatment - Nons - Borderline Personality Disorder Inside Out. Similarly, therapist Shari Schreiber describes it at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved..

I should have broken up with him around the 3rd month we were together, but he talked me out of it every time.

The love bombing and affection in a relationship with NPDers or BPDers usually goes off a cliff at the end of the infatuation period -- which typically lasts 3 to 6 months. As long as the infatuation lasts, the person's fears are held at bay -- allowing them to believe that you are the perfect woman, the soul mate they are seeking. When the infatuation evaporates, however, the fears return -- with the result that their anger and insecurities are frequently triggered. For a more detailed explanation of this, I suggest you see my posts in Katt's thread about her abusive, passive-aggressive BF. My posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/274951-first-heartbreak#post3361912. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Confused. Edited April 21, 2013 by Downtown

[KatZee]

My ex was like this, although not as bad as yours. He never put me first, his job, his friends, his family, anything he had to do came first and I got whatever scraps of time he had left.

 

The entire relationship was about his needs, his wants, his desires, his expectations of a girlfriend. Nothing that I needed or wanted from a partner even mattered remotely. He was and is extremely self absorbed and selfish.

 

Nothing I ever did was good enough. I bent over backwards for that kid, I sacrificed so much of my time and my life to make him happy, make sure I was always doing thing for him, he came first in all aspects of my life.

 

My mother once looked at me after he disrespected my family so horribly and she said, "One day you're going to look back and wonder what you ever saw in him." Of course when she said this I went off defending him up and down. He had me brainwashed as well. However looking back, she was completely right.

 

I always made excuses for him, and basically became his doormat. I would do 9 great things for him and make 1 mistake, and instead of being appreciative of those 9 things, he would sit and dwell and harp on that one negative thing. He always made our problems out to be my fault. For example, he allowed his female friends to flat out talk crap about me right to my face. They made up rumors, and bad mouthed me. When I became upset, he would tell me, "You're not bending over backwards far enough for them. You have to be extra, extra nice to them. And if you can't do that, then I can't have a girlfriend that acts like you. Things are changing, or else." (or else meaning he'd dump me.)

 

He had me completely brainwashed that I was the reason we weren't working as a couple and so I tripled my efforts to keep him happy. I wound up walking on eggshells all the time. I would watch what I said or how I acted just so I wouldn't make him annoyed or angry with me. Nothing I did was right, I was always wrong. Nothing he ever did was wrong. He would do such horrible things, cheat, lie, be disrespectful, and yet it was always, "I can't have a gf like YOU."

 

And even if I tried to keep him happy, he would wind up icing me out and ignoring me for days. He'd keep something bottled up inside and then explode criticizing me up and down, telling me everything that was wrong with me, and after he verbally vomited all over me he would be like, "But I love you so I don't want to break up." O_o

 

My ex cheated on me too with his prior ex. He then would tell me to my face, "She's my friend and I'm never going to not talk to her."

 

I too wanted my ex back when we broke up. But the longer NC went on the clearer my vision became. I'm almost 1 year NC and my ex is nothing I would ever want and he's not a person I would ever be with again. Eventually you'll see it too.

Edited April 21, 2013 by KatZee

[sweetjess1951]

I never came first when it came to my ex. He didn't play softball, he played soccer. Haha, a 31 year old man who played on 3 or 4 different soccer teams throughout the year, yet complained about how unsuccessful and fulfilling his job was. Um, hello, maybe you should grow up and start focusing on your career like normal 31 year olds instead of acting like a 16 year old with no responsibilities.

 

I, too, bent over backwards for him. I met every request, made his bed before I left in the mornings (I don't even make my own bed), always drove over to his house, financed most of our activities (lol, cause you know I'm 25 (6 years younger) and have a college degree and promising career), composed both his cover letter and resume and uploaded them to his LinkedIn account, took care of him while he was sick, cooked his favorite meals at his request, cleaned HIS house, listened to his complaining, gave him advice, rubbed his back, gave him sex whenever he wanted and on Sundays when he would leave me early in the morning to go play soccer with his buddies (mind you, this soccer outing isn't part of the 3-4 teams he plays on every week), I'd have lunch ready for him and his friends. I watched whatever movies he wanted to watch, DVR'd any of my shows at my house since he wouldn't watch them and just basically went above and beyond for this man.

 

Did he appreciate it? Absolutely not! And that was apparent when I would also do 9 wonderful things and the 1 a little less than tasteful (at least in his eyes) I did, completely outdid everything I had done for him. Oh, and this less than tasteful thing I did was be upset because I wasn't invited to his family's house for Easter dinner. Good lord, heaven forbid he dates a girl that wants to be involved with his family.

 

He was always right, I was always wrong. Yes, our time together was fun and happy and enjoyable but he was such an ********* when we got into a fight, sometimes calling me names.

[tbf]

There are two sides to this equation. The only way someone can treat you this way is if you allow them to. The take away from these types of relationships will be your red flag for future relationships.

[sweetjess1951]

My ex was like this, although not as bad as yours. He never put me first, his job, his friends, his family, anything he had to do came first and I got whatever scraps of time he had left.

 

The entire relationship was about his needs, his wants, his desires, his expectations of a girlfriend. Nothing that I needed or wanted from a partner even mattered remotely. He was and is extremely self absorbed and selfish.

 

Nothing I ever did was good enough. I bent over backwards for that kid, I sacrificed so much of my time and my life to make him happy, make sure I was always doing thing for him, he came first in all aspects of my life.

 

My mother once looked at me after he disrespected my family so horribly and she said, "One day you're going to look back and wonder what you ever saw in him." Of course when she said this I went off defending him up and down. He had me brainwashed as well. However looking back, she was completely right.

 

I always made excuses for him, and basically became his doormat. I would do 9 great things for him and make 1 mistake, and instead of being appreciative of those 9 things, he would sit and dwell and harp on that one negative thing. He always made our problems out to be my fault. For example, he allowed his female friends to flat out talk crap about me right to my face. They made up rumors, and bad mouthed me. When I became upset, he would tell me, "You're not bending over backwards far enough for them. You have to be extra, extra nice to them. And if you can't do that, then I can't have a girlfriend that acts like you. Things are changing, or else." (or else meaning he'd dump me.)

 

He had me completely brainwashed that I was the reason we weren't working as a couple and so I tripled my efforts to keep him happy. I wound up walking on eggshells all the time. I would watch what I said or how I acted just so I wouldn't make him annoyed or angry with me. Nothing I did was right, I was always wrong. Nothing he ever did was wrong. He would do such horrible things, cheat, lie, be disrespectful, and yet it was always, "I can't have a gf like YOU."

 

And even if I tried to keep him happy, he would wind up icing me out and ignoring me for days. He'd keep something bottled up inside and then explode criticizing me up and down, telling me everything that was wrong with me, and after he verbally vomited all over me he would be like, "But I love you so I don't want to break up." O_o

 

My ex cheated on me too with his prior ex. He then would tell me to my face, "She's my friend and I'm never going to not talk to her."

 

I too wanted my ex back when we broke up. But the longer NC went on the clearer my vision became. I'm almost 1 year NC and my ex is nothing I would ever want and he's not a person I would ever be with again. Eventually you'll see it too.

 

Did he try to reach out to you at all during NC?

[KatZee]

Did he try to reach out to you at all during NC?

 

Just once.

 

Almost 3 years together and he threw me out like garbage. He actually left me for a girl he met at his new job. That rebound didn't last more than 30 days though.

 

When he knew he had her in the bag, he reached out 5 weeks into NC and was a complete and utter dickbag. He told me to sell all the jewelery he ever bought me because there was no us, and he didn't want me getting the wrong impression.

 

Really? We hadn't even spoken in a month and a half and that's what he had to say to me. I completely went off on him and that was the last time we ever spoke. May of last year. He never apologized for anything, and never attempted to contact me after that.

 

I don't believe he ever loved me at all.

[123confused321]

@Downtown: Thank you for your information, it was extremely helpful. It makes me sick to my stomach that I could be in love with and plan on marrying exhibited signs of extreme NPD & BPD. What really struck me was the "3 to 6 month" window. I literally Facebook messaged him this past week and told him that I should have broken up with him in the 3 to 6 month mark. In fact, I did about 4 times but he would do something extreme to profess his love and win me over every time.

 

I stuck around so long hoping that he would change, but it sounds like people with these disorders will NEVER change. A question I have is, in their own minds, do they realize that they have a problem, or that something is a little "off" with their way of thinking? Or do they truly believe that YOU are the issue?

 

I mean, do you think he broke up with me because he did love me and didn't want to hurt me because he knew his mind was not capable of allowing him to be in a healthy long-term relationship? Or do you truly think that he thought I was the problem and is glad to be rid of me?

[123confused321]

@KatZee: I am having the same feelings, did he ever love me at all? I honestly don't know. But this is kind of what I am thinking. Given his personality and issues, I DO believe that he loved me as best as he was capable of. Is this a healthy love? Absolutely not.

 

I really don't think that men (if you can call them men) with these traits will EVER have a healthy relationship. People have told me that I should feel sorry for this new girl that my ex is dating, that the same thing will happen to her. I just wonder if he will be smooth enough to keep her around for 2.5 years too or if she will wise up sooner.

 

I really think that people like us (people who put our partners above ourselves and make them number one priority, always making excuses for them) meeting passive aggressive/NPD/BPD men is the perfect storm. We are the only type of girl that will even consider putting up with their crap, and they take advantage of us the entire time. I just wonder, why did THEY end up breaking up with us, when they had it made?

[KatZee]

@KatZee: I am having the same feelings, did he ever love me at all? I honestly don't know. But this is kind of what I am thinking. Given his personality and issues, I DO believe that he loved me as best as he was capable of. Is this a healthy love? Absolutely not.

 

I really don't think that men (if you can call them men) with these traits will EVER have a healthy relationship. People have told me that I should feel sorry for this new girl that my ex is dating, that the same thing will happen to her. I just wonder if he will be smooth enough to keep her around for 2.5 years too or if she will wise up sooner.

 

I really think that people like us (people who put our partners above ourselves and make them number one priority, always making excuses for them) meeting passive aggressive/NPD/BPD men is the perfect storm. We are the only type of girl that will even consider putting up with their crap, and they take advantage of us the entire time. I just wonder, why did THEY end up breaking up with us, when they had it made?

 

I agree. These people only love you as much as they're capable of, which really isn't much. They always love themselves much more.

 

What's funny is that when my ex and I were still together, his ex gf contacted me on FB. She told me I was the best thing that ever happened to her b/c it allowed her to get out of an unhealthy relationship. At that time I didn't understand what she meant by "unhealthy" and now I see it.

 

I know he acted the same way with her because there were certain things he said about her when we were together. He was almost gloating when he said, "She loved me so much so she just let me treat her however I wanted. She just took it."

 

He treated her that way, and then he did the same to me, and since he doesn't see anything wrong in his behavior, he'll do the same thing to the next girl he's with.

 

I too wanted to leave my bf within the 3-6 month period. He was showing extreme immaturity behaviors and he roped me back in with promises of change. There were a few times I wanted to dump him but he wound up talking his way out of it. It's as if he couldn't handle being dumped, HE needed to be the one controlling all aspects of the relationship. So he never let me end it, it was only over when HE said it was over.

[sweetjess1951]

Just once.

 

Almost 3 years together and he threw me out like garbage. He actually left me for a girl he met at his new job. That rebound didn't last more than 30 days though.

 

When he knew he had her in the bag, he reached out 5 weeks into NC and was a complete and utter dickbag. He told me to sell all the jewelery he ever bought me because there was no us, and he didn't want me getting the wrong impression.

 

Really? We hadn't even spoken in a month and a half and that's what he had to say to me. I completely went off on him and that was the last time we ever spoke. May of last year. He never apologized for anything, and never attempted to contact me after that.

 

I don't believe he ever loved me at all.

 

I have mixed emotions regarding mine. Im on day 23 of NC. When we broke up, we continued to "date". He always said that he hoped I was his wife one day and talked about me living with him. A few days before we got into an argument and stop talking (leading to this NC) he uttered "love you" (hadn't said it since before we broke up in October). He has told me all along that he wants to focus on himself. He just manipulated me to stick around. So I wonder if he will realize he made a mistake or reach out at all. He told me he wasn't interested in dating anyone else and I was f'in perfect for him. Who knows if its true

[Downtown]

It sounds like people with these disorders will NEVER change.

Yes, if the traits are strong, it is very unlikely that they will greatly improve. For BPD, there are many excellent treatment programs available which will teach them the skills they never learned in childhood, e.g., how to self sooth to calm down, how to regulate emotions, and how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "fact."

 

Sadly, however, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength necessary to remain in those therapy programs long enough to make a real difference. And, with NPDers, the chances of success are even smaller.

A question I have is, in their own minds, do they realize that they have a problem, or that something is a little "off" with their way of thinking?

As far as self awareness and some other traits, there seem to be three major differences between narcissists and BPDers. First, whereas NPDers are emotionally stable, BPDers are not. This instability is why BPDers flip back and forth between loving and hating you and do much more of the push-you-away and pull-you-back behavior. That flip usually occurs in ten seconds based on some innocuous thing you said or did. Once a person has been subjected to this cycle a dozen times -- being alternately adored and hated -- she starts feeling like an addict who is alternating between heroine highs one day and heroine withdrawal pains the next.

 

This is why a BPDer relationship is considered so addictive and toxic. And this is why the most distinguishing hallmark of a BPDer relationship is strong feeling of the nonBPD partner that she is losing her mind. It therefore is very common for the partners to go running to a therapist to find out if they are going crazy. Although the partners of narcissists also are treated abusively, it is unusual for them to feel they are going crazy.

 

Second, although narcissists also do the push-pull (but to a lesser extent), they do not do it because of altering between the abandonment fear and engulfment fear like BPDers. Rather, as I understand it, the narcissists typically do it because, once you return to them, they lose interest in you and start taking you for granted -- i.e., they do not feel engulfed like the BPDers. Like the BPDers, NPDers can rage in response to your comments. Yet, the rage usually is in response to your disagreeing with them, thus refusing to validate their false image of being a person who is always right. In contrast, the BPDers get furious when you say anything triggering their two great fears: abandonment and engulfment.

 

Third, whereas BPDers typically are caring individuals who actually can love you (albeit in a very impaired and immature manner), NPDers are not truly caring and do not love you. Instead, they consider you a useful object when you are supporting their false self image and a non-useful object when you are not supportive. Moreover, even when you try to be continually supportive, a narcissist may lose respect for you and become bored with your adoration -- with the result that he may replace your adoration with that of another woman.

Or do they truly believe that YOU are the issue?

BPDers have a vague awareness that they don't know who they really are and they have a great fear that you will eventually find out they are empty inside and leave them. Yet, because they are so deeply ashamed, they find it extremely painful to add one more thing to the long list of things they hate about themselves. To protect them from that pain of self awareness, their subconscious mind frequently protects their conconscious mind from seeling too much of reality.

 

It does this by projecting all bad thoughts and feelings and mistakes onto the spouse or partner. Because this occurs entirely at the subconscious level, BPDers typically are absolutely convinced -- at the conscious level -- that the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths are true. Hence, although BPDers have a vague awareness that something is wrong with them, they usually do believe that every misfortune is YOUR fault. And, when their mood changes a week later, they will be just as convinced when claiming the exact opposite of what they say today.

 

Granted, if you corner a BPDer into an indefensible position, he sometimes will fabricate a lie to avoid the shame of being wrong. Generally, however, the outrageous claims tend to be projections, not lies. The beauty of projections is that, because the conscious mind believes them to be accurate, there is no guilt or shame attached to them.

I mean, do you think he broke up with me because he did love me and didn't want to hurt me because he knew his mind was not capable of allowing him to be in a healthy long-term relationship?

If he has strong traits of NPD or BPD, he is too emotionally immature to be able to sustain a healthy LTR. If he has strong NPD traits, he is incapable of loving you. If he has strong BPD traits, he is capable of loving you -- in the immature manner of a child, where you are alternately adored and hated, depending on whether you are handing him the toy or taking it away.

Or do you truly think that he thought I was the problem and is glad to be rid of me?

Yes, he truly believes you are the problem if he has strong BPD or NPD traits. And, if he has strong BPD traits, he likely will try to win you back at some point even though he believes you are wrong.

 

Yet, as I said, I DON'T KNOW whether his traits are strong. My only objective is to point you to some online resources that will teach you how to spot the red flags for such disorders so you can protect yourself in the future. This is important because, if you actually spent 2.5 years with a NPDer or BPDer, you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver like me. If so, you are at risk of running away from one abusive man only to run right into the arms of another one just like him.

 

With caregivers like me, the desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds the desire to be loved (for the people we already are). We therefore tend to walk right past all the emotionally available people (BORING) -- and keep walking until we find someone who desperately needs us. That is a problem because we tend to mistake "being needed" for "being loved." Indeed, unless someone desperately needs us, we have difficulty realizing that this person actually does love us.

[Seachelle1]

My ex was like this, although not as bad as yours. He never put me first, his job, his friends, his family, anything he had to do came first and I got whatever scraps of time he had left.

 

The entire relationship was about his needs, his wants, his desires, his expectations of a girlfriend. Nothing that I needed or wanted from a partner even mattered remotely. He was and is extremely self absorbed and selfish.

 

Nothing I ever did was good enough. I bent over backwards for that kid, I sacrificed so much of my time and my life to make him happy, make sure I was always doing thing for him, he came first in all aspects of my life.

 

He had me completely brainwashed that I was the reason we weren't working as a couple and so I tripled my efforts to keep him happy.

 

Yes and yes! Oh, guys thanks so much for this thread.

 

For me, he expected a happy girlfriend but I am dealing with a death in the family and a dying mother. When I was grieving he said it wasn't a problem but would take it out on me. I felt like a horrible girlfriend for grieving!

 

If he wanted to leave me he should have left me, not been passive aggressive. I spent soooooo much money on him and when I said something about how it was hurting me he was angry with me. He said something like, "it's bad to talk about it, it means that money can get between us." What?!?!

 

I have so many responsibilities! Why should he be another one? Why should I have to pay for him? He'd yell at me for taking up too much of his time yet he'd show up for sex after having "fun" with his friends. He told me my family was a distraction and was really mean about my family.

 

I was cleaning up my dad's trailer where he'd died. There was a big stain in the carpet from my dad dying and where the paramedics worked on him. I'd also had to go underneath the trailer for various reasons and gotten stung twice by hornets and was soaking wet, covered in mud and close to tears the whole time. I had him working in exchange for a pumped up electronic that he'd asked for and he pushed a button that might have overloaded a generator and I did panic and almost started crying and he just stared at me in anger and said something derogatory about my emotions. I don't think I acted well, but that was so regular, things like that when it was obvious that there was too much to deal with and there was no compassion. Later he had a friend over at the trailer (who I TRUSTED and who later started dating him and was really mean to me) and he decided it was a good idea to sit down with her and tell her about the stain on the carpet and discuss how my dad dropped dead while sitting where he'd been sitting when he died. I felt so bad when I heard they'd been discussing, like I was supposed to talking about it over coffee and be all better, to be dealing with my crazy dying mom better, like I was all wrong. OMG, I'm almost crying just writing it out. They hurt me soooooo much. I wish I'd never met them. What horrible people!

 

Man, when he broke up with me my self-esteem was nil. I'm grateful we only dated for a little while. Never again.

[Foreverandalwaysxo]

My ex boyfriend was bipolar and let me tell you it was a bad breakup... He was the best ive ever had for 5 months then his mood changed and he started treating me like crap for a other 4 months... he made me think I was crazy and obsessed with him. If they deny they have a problem or that they are bipolar, its better you stay away then get treated like crap every time he has his down.