KatZee Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 There's a secret that guys know that women don't seem to know they know... And yet, I've seen this factor is almost always present in terrible relationships. It's what I call the empathy trap. Women have an idea of what a good relationship is in their minds. They have a set of rules of things that they would put up with and a set of things that they would never put up with... But lo and behold, somehow there are tons and tons of women who are in relationships where the guy treats the girl in a way that the girl would never put up with normally because... "Something bad and unfair happened to him... and that's why he is the way he is..." "It's not his fault... he's had a tough life." "He's this way because he was hurt..." The unspoken message is always that she believes the guy needs her and needs her love to help him heal. She believes that somehow down the line, her love with transform him into the man she sees he was always meant to be... and he'll realize that he can't live without her and they'll be together forever. All the meanwhile, the guy just treats her like crap, again and again. She can't kick him to the curb for acting in a way that she'd normally never tolerate because her feminine desire to nurture this wounded bird back to health is so strong. She's invested so much. She feels so much in the relationship. She has so much love to give and he needs it, right? So she stays and tolerates his poor treatment of her. After all, he can't help it, right? The truth is, guys have a very good understanding of women and their overpowering desire to nurture them. I'm spilling the beans on this, but personally I know that if I want a "free pass" on my behavior with a woman, most of the time I just have to tell her a story about how I'm a victim of some horrible, cruel, unfair chain of events and all of a sudden she'll allow any amount of bad behavior from me. This concept is the backbone of what I was talking about in the series about being "emotionally devastated by a relationship". You go in with the best of intentions, but you compromise your values, your needs and your self-respect in order to keep that other person. The damage goes both ways though in these cases. While the woman is desperately trying to heal the guy with her love and patience, the guy has a growing sense of guilt and helplessness. He starts to buy into the fact that he's a damaged, wounded loser and the relationship dynamic devolves into more of a mother-child dynamic. At that point, it's no wonder that the guy loses interest in sex and attraction. It's not a "sexy" dynamic, but people have an amazing ability for their relationship dynamics to quickly become their one mode and routine with one another. This road to hell always starts with the belief, "He can't help it..." Now the other poisonous ingredient to most bad relationships is what I call emotional intoxication. See, as human beings we identify emotional experiences by the change it makes to our current emotional state. This is a bit of an obscure concept, but stick with me because this was a huge epiphany for me when I really understood it... Many of us have had the experience of dating someone who was... fine... ya know... fine... but didn't blow you away. They were nice, good to you, good on paper, etc. And then on the other hand, many of us have been head over heels for someone who's terrible for us... Most of the time, being with them was a miserable existence... but when times were good, it was profoundly good. Here's the weird thing about human psychology... we tend to value the toughest relationships we have more due to the emotional rollercoaster the other person takes us on. We don't know if our interaction with them is going to be terrible or great. And the majority of the time the relationship with them is more stressful and unpleasant than most typical relationships in your life... But when the relationship is good, it's such a massive difference from the norm that it has an intoxicating effect. Here's an analogy... Have you ever been eating a bunch of desserts to the point where you can't eat anymore sweet stuff? Too much sweetness, it gets gross after a bit. But if you're eating a bunch of salty food and then you get to taste that sweetness, it's amazing. It's a decadent experience of pleasure to taste that sweetness because all you'd been tasting before was salt. Thing is, the sweetness wasn't any sweeter than when you were eating it after all of the desserts. It's the contrast that makes it feel so much more pleasurable. A bit of a stilted analogy I'll admit, but I think it gets the point across. In emotionally intoxicating relationships, most of the relationship is toxic to you. It makes you worry, it lowers your self-esteem and instills a tremendous sense of paranoia. When times are good, though, it's such a contrast to the normal toxic baseline that it appears far more profound and moving. This is one of the reasons why movies and TVs love creating the insensitive anti-hero characters who, at the end of the story, do something incredibly caring or sensitive. The contrast in behavior has a lot more impact on the audience than if it was performed by a character that was nice and did good deeds the entire story. This is one of the reasons why leaving a bad relationship can be so tough - the good times feel dramatically heightened because they're in such contrast to the typical behavior or character of your partner. It's sad, but it's a truth about human emotions and relationship dynamics - we don't always choose the best person for us... we're drawn to the person who moves us most dramatically, but sometimes the reasons for that impact are not good. I FEEL LIKE I'VE HAD THE AHA! MOMENT after reading this!! I can relate on so many levels! 1
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 But when the relationship is good, it's such a massive difference from the norm that it has an intoxicating effect. right on.....every one i've had bar one has been like this oooops
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 I related to this 110%. And I realized that I wasn't being treated the way I should. But that any scraps he threw my way were heightened ten fold because it wasn't the **** that happened on other days. 1
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 I related to this 110%. And I realized that I wasn't being treated the way I should. But that any scraps he threw my way were heightened ten fold because it wasn't the **** that happened on other days. but then don't women get bored easily?.....too much stability and norm is too straight? Drama and toxic love is better?................
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 but then don't women get bored easily?.....too much stability and norm is too straight? Drama and toxic love is better?................ You think drama and toxic love is the the only way to avoid boredom?
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 You think drama and toxic love is the the only way to avoid boredom? no just wandering......haha.....
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 no just wandering......haha..... Yeah, don't wander down that path. It leads to nothing good.
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Yeah, don't wander down that path. It leads to nothing good. well you obviously have
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 well you obviously have No actually I was the one always smoothing things and trying to NOT have the drama, and when I realized it wasn't changing I walked. My ex never heard from me again.
TaraMaiden Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 I have said it before, and I will say it again - using the Past to prop up the Present handicaps the Future. Simple. But true.
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 I have said it before, and I will say it again - using the Past to prop up the Present handicaps the Future. Simple. But true. I don't believe this at all. I learned a lot from my past. And it taught me what I need to expect from a partner. The past absolutely shaped my present and subsequent future. In a very positive way. 1
TaraMaiden Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 You're not getting it. Read my statement again. correlate it with what you propose women say about their menfolk. Or essentially, what their menfolk are doing. Using the past to prop up their present. I'm not talking about 'learning from the past' - I'm talking about refusing to let go of it and stand on their own 2 feet.....
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 No actually I was the one always smoothing things and trying to NOT have the drama, and when I realized it wasn't changing I walked. My ex never heard from me again. women are born drama queens.........now where's your sense of humor???
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 women are born drama queens.........now where's your sense of humor??? A lot may be... but I'm not. I loathe it actually and it's why I have significantly more male friends than female ones. I can't stand girls. They're all back stabbing bi*ches when all I want to go out and do is have a great time, meet new people. It's sad. And I have a terrific sense of humor!
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 A lot may be... but I'm not. I loathe it actually and it's why I have significantly more male friends than female ones. I can't stand girls. They're all back stabbing bi*ches when all I want to go out and do is have a great time, meet new people. It's sad. And I have a terrific sense of humor! you sound like my ideal woman....minus all the male friends...haha
Frank13 Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Here's the weird thing about human psychology... we tend to value the toughest relationships we have more due to the emotional rollercoaster the other person takes us on. That is why women don't want a nice guy. Nice guys are boring. It is better to feel negative emotion than none at all.
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 That is why women don't want a nice guy. Nice guys are boring. It is better to feel negative emotion than none at all. Wrong. Women want a man who stands up for himself and doesn't act like a doormat. Nice guys are capable of this. All you guys have it completely wrong and you think we want as*holes. This couldn't even be further from the truth. Women want a man who's going to say NO to us and not just agree with everything we say, and do everything we want at the snap of a finger. How can we respect a guy like this... that being said... a nice guy is capable of being this. I would NEVER date an as*hole. The thing about the above statement and why I got caught up with a bad guy is that he wasn't bad in the beginning. It was a very slow subtle shift, and I always made excuses for him... as the article indicates. To me, he had valid reasons for certain behaviors. This is never going to be acceptable to me going forward.
Mike_d Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 That is why women don't want a nice guy. Nice guys are boring. It is better to feel negative emotion than none at all. nice guys that pedestal women, nice guys who take their crap, don't act like men, are not able to take charge, do too much - those nice guys get put to the curb 1
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 yea but we can also get put on the kurb for being too harsh haha
Mike_d Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 yea but we can also get put on the kurb for being too harsh haha absolutely but a nice guy who treats her as an equal, thinks about what is best before considering her request, calls her on her ****, makes her work to fix the problems she has created, doesn't always rescue her, listens without fixing, brings her flowers for no reason, acts like a man and not a heartbroken puppy, that guy will get the goods in return. ladies, correct me if I'm off here 1
weallfalldown Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 absolutely but a nice guy who treats her as an equal, thinks about what is best before considering her request, calls her on her ****, makes her work to fix the problems she has created, doesn't always rescue her, listens without fixing, brings her flowers for no reason, acts like a man and not a heartbroken puppy, that guy will get the goods in return. ladies, correct me if I'm off here so why you single.......shabba ranks
William Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 15 posts gone. Keep it on-topic. This isn't a dating/chat site. Thanks.
Author KatZee Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 absolutely but a nice guy who treats her as an equal, thinks about what is best before considering her request, calls her on her ****, makes her work to fix the problems she has created, doesn't always rescue her, listens without fixing, brings her flowers for no reason, acts like a man and not a heartbroken puppy, that guy will get the goods in return. ladies, correct me if I'm off here Nope, you're totally spot on and this is exactly what I said above.
Mike_d Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 so why you single.......shabba ranks pedestal, trying too hard, not challenging her ****, being too available, fixing everything, accepted behavior from her that should have immed put her to the curb, which resulted in an instant loss of respect for me when I didn't, inability to end the relationship due to fear and fear of rejection to be rid of her. oh, I got plenty to learn still, but I've learned me lots along the way. I am a masterpiece in the making, that is currently a fine work of art
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