Crazy times

[robaday]

I was seeing someone for quite a while - off on, for a number of years. We couldnt fully let each other go and would break up for up to six months at a stretch then get back together - I know it wasnt healthy, but we did love each other just couldnt get it right.

 

This last time we were together two months. It wasnt a good rel, but we were trying. Anyways a month ago, she broke it off. I didnt stop her and respected it and left her apartment. Then later that night she called me, sounding distressed like she would kill herself.

 

I went round and held her. We hung out a few more days, but I could sense it was over from her end. She had planned a holiday abroad for us, but I had to work. I asked where I stood, and said I had to move on if we were over. And she sent me a volley of abuse in ten text messages.

 

Weve spoken since and it is over. She blames me for everything that went wrong, not seeing that her behavior was out of control, and to be honest terrifying.

 

Im hurting badly. Not because of the break up, I handled that with grace. But because of the way she turned on me. Why would anyone react with so much anger?

[HollyBolly]

This has got to be one of the most dysfunctional relationships I have ever read on here. Anyway, how can anyone react with so much anger? Well, they can be mentally unstable or frustrated or hormonal or just plain pi33ed off. You guys were on and off for how long? Maybe she was just fed up?

[dsw31]

I was seeing someone for quite a while - off on, for a number of years. We couldnt fully let each other go and would break up for up to six months at a stretch then get back together - I know it wasnt healthy, but we did love each other just couldnt get it right.

 

This last time we were together two months. It wasnt a good rel, but we were trying. Anyways a month ago, she broke it off. I didnt stop her and respected it and left her apartment. Then later that night she called me, sounding distressed like she would kill herself.

 

I went round and held her. We hung out a few more days, but I could sense it was over from her end. She had planned a holiday abroad for us, but I had to work. I asked where I stood, and said I had to move on if we were over. And she sent me a volley of abuse in ten text messages.

 

Weve spoken since and it is over. She blames me for everything that went wrong, not seeing that her behavior was out of control, and to be honest terrifying.

 

Im hurting badly. Not because of the break up, I handled that with grace. But because of the way she turned on me. Why would anyone react with so much anger?

 

Robaday,

Your beakup sounds just as toxic as mine.On & off 3 year relationship.He wanted to end it because there was no trust after both of us cheating & both of us couldn't break away.We have both acted crazy & I felt suicidal & now have anger towards my ex.HEY...ARE YOU MY EX? Just kidding even though it's not funny.

My point is...she is just an emotional rollercoaster right now.She may be angry that you couldn't find a way to make it work.She may be angry because you handled the bu with grace & now probably wonders how you can be doing so (seeming)well.It's a hard situation but,breaking up is probably the best choice as of now.I'd just stay NC because even though it's terrible at first,it will give her time to heal & you time to heal & hopefully you'll both grow from this experience.

[robaday]

I dont care about the break up - it had to happen. I care that my best friend turned on me, with anger I have never experienced before. If I sent a girl messages like that she would probably put a restraining order on me. It makes me question the motives behind the holiday - if she was carrying THAT MUCH anger, then surely it wouldnt have been long before it was over anyway? I probably did the right thing by NOT GOING with her.

 

I was confused myself, Ive since learned the trip was to try to work it out - but she wasnt clear and had broken up with me a week before. I think most people in my situation would be wary of going on a trip without finding out what the other persons motives were. She says it was insecure that prompted the abuse - but come on? if you break up with someone you give up that right to be insecure at least in the short term.

[HollyBolly]

Well, what were these msgs? You never did tell us so that we can better understand this thing.

[robaday]

FXXX OFF U CXXXT, dont tell me you want to move on, AXXXl

U TREATED ME LIKE SHXXT, Axxxl Loser wuss boy, wasting my time and destroying my life, go and fxxxk your sister

 

u get the message - there were quite a few more. I only asked where I stood:sick:!!!

 

Yeah I wasnt a great boyfriend and wasnt as committed as her. But seriously?

[dsw31]

I dont care about the break up - it had to happen. I care that my best friend turned on me, with anger I have never experienced before. If I sent a girl messages like that she would probably put a restraining order on me. It makes me question the motives behind the holiday - if she was carrying THAT MUCH anger, then surely it wouldnt have been long before it was over anyway? I probably did the right thing by NOT GOING with her.

 

I was confused myself, Ive since learned the trip was to try to work it out - but she wasnt clear and had broken up with me a week before. I think most people in my situation would be wary of going on a trip without finding out what the other persons motives were. She says it was insecure that prompted the abuse - but come on? if you break up with someone you give up that right to be insecure at least in the short term.

 

I'm trying to explain why she is mad.I am just as crazy as your ex so I think I have an idea.You just said it"you don't care about the break up-it had to happen anyway"

While you are right & that is a great attitude to have,I'm sure she is just beside herself because she probably thought that you are doing ok withhout her.She probably expeted you to try to fight for the relationship but,you agreed to the breakup & are handling yourself well.She is just letting her feelings get the best of her.I'm sure she is still a good person & doesn't even mean to say those scary things to you,she's just devastated.If you truley believe she would kill herself,or hurt you,then be very careful & put the right authorities into play-I also want to add-Since you guys had an on again,off again relationship:I think those hurt even more . She probably holds onto the hope that you guys will play the boomerang game again.That's just how I feel anyway & I can relate to your psycho ex at the moment cause I'm in a state of crazy myself.Goodluck to you

[HollyBolly]

FXXX OFF U CXXXT, dont tell me you want to move on, AXXXl

U TREATED ME LIKE SHXXT, Axxxl Loser wuss boy, wasting my time and destroying my life, go and fxxxk your sister

 

u get the message - there were quite a few more. I only asked where I stood:sick:!!!

 

Yeah I wasnt a great boyfriend and wasnt as committed as her. But seriously?

 

You're trying to understand THIS? Obviously she was out of her mind with anger when she wrote these. Sometimes there's no understanding another person's anger. She thought you wronged her. She believed that you "destroyed her life", for Pete's sakes! That's a pretty bold statement. She must've been very hurt, hence the anger.

[robaday]

She broke up with me five days prior to this, I thought she wanted it over, clearly not, and thats why Im left just in intense pain. She since broke up with me again laying into about all the things I did wrong. And I just dont get this whole thing.

[Downtown]

I simply don't have a strong enough identity, which is difficult for me to admit, so I protect myself by not giving myself fully emotionally to them, not being present. For the first six months I'm normally fine, but then the commitment phobia kicks in and i want to escape. I cant commit to stay in nor commit to leave, so stay in a state of off on off on which hurts the other person, until eventually they leave. [From your 6/30/11 thread at "]http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/285315-ego-powerful-thing.]

Rob, you are describing a very common problem that occurs when people have a fragile sense of who they really are. Because they lack a strong ego, they have no internal compass to give them a sense of direction. If you are like that, you likely find yourself HATING to be alone. You therefore have a strong need to always be with a woman having a strong personality who will ground you and provide a sense of direction and purpose -- keeping you from shooting off in all directions.

 

When you get exactly that, however, you will love it for 4 to 6 months. Then your infatuation with her evaporates and you start becoming very resentful of her efforts to "control" you. Actually, she is not being controlling. It nonetheless will feel that way. The reason is that, when a person with a weak ego is reliant on a strong personality to provide grounding, that person will feel like he is losing himself in her strong personality, i.e., is merging into her to such an extent that it feels like he is evaporating into thin air. It is a very frightening feeling.

 

I mention all this so as to explain why, when you have a weak self image, you will suffer from two great fears -- engulfment and abandonment -- that will keep you from attaching to another human being. The result is that, when she draws close to you to reassure you of her love, she will trigger your fear of engulfment, i.e., that scary feeling of losing yourself that I discussed above. To escape that suffocating feeling, you will push her away -- usually by creating an argument over absolutely nothing (which is why it's often hard for you to even recall what it was you were arguing about).

 

Yet, as she draws back to give you breathing room, she will trigger your other great fear: abandonment. Significantly, there is no Goldilocks position midway between "too far away" and "too close" for her to stand. Hence, no matter what she does, she cannot avoid triggering one fear or the other. The reason that the two fears are unavoidable is because they lie at the two polar extremes of the VERY SAME spectrum. This means that, as she backs away from one fear to give you relief, she necessarily draws closer to triggering your other fear.

 

I say this based on my 15 years of experience with my exW who, like you, tends to behave very differently around different people because she has a weak sense of who she really is. Also like you, she is very intelligent, charming, and moves with great ease among various cultures of people. If this description of your behavior is accurate, you likely would make an excellent actor because you've been acting, since early childhood, so as to fit in and to be accepted and loved. You also would find it difficult to "stay in the present" when your loved one draws near. Instead, you will escape into daydreams. That escapist behavior, which you refer to as "not being present," is called "splitting" (i.e., a form of dissociation).

 

As to your statement that the "first six months" is usually "fine," that is typical for people having a weak self image. The reason is that your infatuation with the new lover typically will last 4 to 6 months. As long as you are infatuated, your two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) are held at bay because you are so convinced she is the perfect woman -- the best thing since sliced bread. Yet, as soon as the infatuation starts evaporating, those fears will return because you will start to recognize that she poses a threat to both fears. That is why, at the 6 month point, your repeated cycle of push-her-away and pull-her-back -- i.e., "the state of on-off-on-off," as you say -- always begins anew.

 

Finally, I note that you likely will suffer this problem only with loved ones -- not with business associates, casual friends, or strangers. You move effortlessly among nearly all of those other people. None of them pose a threat to your two fears. There is no intimacy to cause the frightening feeling of engulfment. And there is no close relationship that can be abandoned. Rob, if you find any of this information helpful and have questions, I would be happy to try to answer them -- or point you to online resources that can. Take care, Rob.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Downtown

[robaday]

A lot of what you say is true, and very informative - you have me down perfectly on an awful lot of fronts and I was a little shocked at how well you described me.

 

Im not really the persuer, more the guy that nobody can figure out. I rarely if ever reveal my intentions and wait for the other person to reveal theirs. You are completely right that I do fly between social groups, have ease talking to people from different backgrounds, and dont really have any need for anything concrete in my life (i.e. a car, house, nice clothes, a country to call home). Im in a good job, am well paid, and relatively attractive. But Im not a happy person I must admit.

 

But there is one thing that is different here - she didnt have a strong personality by any stretch. She was deeply insecure, and had incredibly low self esteem......probably like me!

 

She had uncontrollable emotions, which I witnessed countless times, suicide attempts, imagined assaults, and consistent doubt and jealousy. Whether her past was true or not I was never sure - littered with abuse, sexual assault, and various disorders. While this recent abuse was unparralleled it had happened in lesser quantities in the past Me on the other hand - like you describe so well, Im the opposite, if anything, distant, lacking presence and someone who withdraws. Im on fire inside though, and think too much. Calm exterior hides the tension inside.

 

Essentially I could not handle someone who was SO emotionally charged.

[Downtown]

But there is one thing that is different here - she didnt have a strong personality by any stretch. She was deeply insecure, and had incredibly low self esteem......probably like me!

That is not to say, however, that you were seeking a woman with a weak, unstable personality. Like you, she probably was very good at hiding that fact for several months during the infatuation period. I therefore suspect that you were not pleased to learn that she was not as strong and stable as she had seemed at the beginning.

 

Moreover, her issues -- which appear to be strong BPD traits if your description is accurate -- offered one very attractive feature: like you, she has trouble attaching to people because she cannot tolerate intimacy very well. She therefore has the same cycle of push-away and pull-back. I say that this shortcoming of hers is a "very attractive feature" to you because her push-pull cycle gave you repeated "mini-vacations" from the intimacy that you find so suffocating and engulfing (i.e., true intimacy, not just sex).

 

This is why folks with intimacy problems often last the longest in a relationship when their partners also have a low tolerance for intimacy. And this is why your WORST fights with her usually started right on the heels of the very BEST times (e.g., right after a very intimate evening or a great weekend spent together).

 

Because my exW was that way, I quickly learned that it was a big waste of money to take her on an expensive holiday. The first two days would be so great that, by the third, she would create a big fight over nothing so as to push me away. I decided that, if I was going to have to endure a temper tantrum, I could do that at home for free instead of paying $500/day out of town.

[robaday]

She was very loving, but intensely clingy for the first period we were together. Sometimes it scared me how attached she was. She put an awful lot into it and expected the same back. Due to my circumstances I wasnt able to give it back.

 

She did become more independent and the second time we worked well. But i was never really enough for her - no matter how much i tried she never trusted me.

 

She remained loving however until the last year. Weve both broken up with each other a couple times. But when she came back and begged for me back she was a different person. Demanding, expecting, and when she didnt get it, just insulting.

 

And thats what gets me with all of this. If your going to abuse someone, then why are you with them? I have no problems with break ups, yeah they hurt. I have problems being with someone who resorts to abuse.

 

Best way forward? Ive gone NC after we were slightly more civil to each other. Part of me is yearning to see her, but really Im not sure theres anything left to be said anymore. I hope and pray that she gets the self awareness to realize that she has problems too. Thats my last remaining wish in this sorry mess.

[Downtown]

And thats what gets me with all of this. If your going to abuse someone, then why are you with them?

If she has strong BPD traits, that's easy to explain. Convinced that they are always perpetual victims, BPDers need to have a mate around whom they can blame for every misfortune that befalls them. That is, they want someone around at all times who will "validate" their false self image of being "the victim." This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

I hope and pray that she gets the self awareness to realize that she has problems too.

I have the very same hope and wish for my exW, who I took to six different psychologists for weekly visits over a period of 15 years. But, sadly, that is a very unlikely outcome. It is rare for a BPDer -- if that is what your Ex is -- to have the self awareness and ego strength to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference.

[robaday]

I tried the following day to reason with her, but she just couldnt understand where i was coming from at all. She then listed everything that i had done wrong and how she wont miss me.

 

I just maintained my cool and did my best to be cordial. I wished her the best, it was incredibly hard not lashing out myself, but I guess if she has that much anger at me, i really cant do anything about it.

 

ive become a nice guy:( always trying to fix stuff that is broken, always trying to see someone elses point of view, always trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. i should have walked the first time she lashed out at me. would have saved us both a lot of pain.

[Dark Phoenix]

How old is she?