Am I being unreasonable? Second chance or straight up dump?

[ktya]

PREFACE- Ok long post but I type fast and its hard to get quality advice only giving fragments of the story. I will refer to all timelines relatively, as in what month of the relationship it was in because months can become confusing. I'm really pretty close to ready to break up to this girl, I've actually talked to her about it, and the reason I'm curious about advice or perspectives is because the girl doesnt seem to process my concerns. Guy or girl advice welcome. However please be well thought out and constructive. On these sites often responses are so shallow its difficult to get anything useful out of them.

 

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0 Months

 

Ok I dumped this girl I was having an awful time with because she was lying and cheating to me and I finally caught her red handed so I could boot her out of my house. I'd been wanting out for a while but as the girl had BPD it was a nightmare communicating to her because anything would cause her to totally explode.

 

I met this new girl (topic of post) and she had broken up for the same reason and we rebounded together pretty good. She talked a lot of her ex and his cheating and lying and I shared my experiences. I was completely over my girl not sad about it at all, really happy actually, ready to date the very next day and that's when I met this girl. She was sad about it, she had moved cities with the guy and had no real friends here in he city in which we live now. A lot of what we talked about was the antics he was pulling in the form of nasty e-mail messages and drunken rants, what its like, etc.

 

Sex was great and she is a looker. I told her I wanted to move slow because I didnt want to get too emotionally involved at the time esp. given we were rebounding together. I even offered her a FWB relationship but she wouldnt have much of it. We hung out and continued.

 

2 Months

 

At this point the woman and I had decided to be boyfriend girlfriend and I was still very insistent that we take it slow. She had also become exceedingly clingy. It was cute at first but after some blowouts like raging at me because I needed to get home to feed my cats or if I wanted to hang out with my friends or if I had talked to her on the phone for 6 hours IMed with her for 4 and wanted to just take some time to myself.

 

She started talking about suicide and jumping off bridges, usually combined with a whole "when I need you most you arent there" mentality/discussion when I was getting annoyed at her getting extremely irritable and angry over separating from me, even if just for a few hours or an evening.

 

3 Months

 

She was talking about wanting to live together but the emotional instability and talk about suicide continued. She had met my parents and family but she steadfastly refused to spend Xmas with me and my family, even though her family was in another city, she said she was going to spend it alone. She had kids in her old hometown I chalked it up to missing them and feeling guilty for being around a family that wasnt maybe her parents and her kids (2 different exes).

 

She asked for us to take a break around christmastime and I told her, Ok then if you want a break then lets break up, its done. I flipped all my statuses to single and didnt really think much else of it. It had been a lot on my plate dealing with all these insecurities and clingyness. Great girl but it was too much for me.

 

I chalked her problems up to depression and when she said she was ready now and wanted the break to end I told her that if we were going to be together she needed to talk to somone, GP, therapist, someone qualified about depression because it was just too much for me.

 

I always had closed off conversations where she mentioned suicide, I told her, keep talking like that and I'm going to hang up and call an ambulance to your house. I'm not qualified to deal with that and you shouldnt be dumping that stuff on me.

 

Month 4

 

I was very impresssed and proud of her, she talked to her doc who prescribed her antidepressants. Almost immediately, on the first day, her mood was much better and more stable. She wasnt edgy, she was talkative, she had a positive outlook on life. I'm sure a lot of it was the placebo effect that she had actually done something about her issue and the crying spells and talk of suicide stopped.

 

Mid month the meds were doubled as part of the original presction (they taper up someone on a new med). Around the time of the med increase, she became emotionally unavailable, the clingyness turned into indifference. She started gambling something feirce racking up $5,000 in losses in 9 days. I was very worried about her thought it was the meds.

 

At this time I was going through a very very rough time. My business had imploded and all my utilities were getting cut off one by one. I had a crazy ex girlfriend also drop some legal papers on me looking for child support and a restraining order out of nowhere. I was desperately looking for a job as well. The girlfriend helped me out with smokes or food here and there and I was very appreciative since I never like to ask people for money or neccessities. This made me very loyal to her.

 

Month 5

 

She had not only started gambling a lot more than before but she was now also meeting male friends she had met at work at a casino for dinners and going to movies with them. A couple of them gave her roses which I was pretty choked about, one of them gave her 2 laptops. I talked to her about it but it was difficult, as she was very honest about going out with these people, telling me before and coming to my house after. I'd been cheated on in the past and these "dates" (although she refused to call them this) brought back troubling memories.

 

I had a few blowouts where she was out for undefined amounts of time that got longer and longer. I eventually realized she was at the casino. When I told her I was going to come to the casino to see her, she told me if I came she'd never talk to me again. I was flabbergasted, called her bluff and told her I had a friend there and wanted to know who the guy was. She said it was her boss and she didnt want me there.

 

I was beginning to be very troubled by this behavior, however she insisted that she was gambling to make extra money she needed. I gater shes under the illusion that she is a semipro poker player, even though she kept losing money. Whether she was out with guy friends or girl friends she was out playing poker. Not just a few hours, longest session was 21 hours and shortest is usually about 5 hours, average is 10-15 hours.

 

Month 6

 

Our six month anniversary and also her birthday. I figured she was going through a lot of changes inside with the meds and was trying to just keep a handle on it. They have sexual side effects which reduce libido and it is quite well known it's hard to feel "love" when you're on them.

 

I figured a weekend getaway to a bed and breakfast would help to realign things. She got mad at me and told me she did not want to go anywhere and not to bother taking her. She wanted a diamond ring because thats her birthstone. I was a bit miffed as I figure myself a diamond ring is kind of hard core for a 6 mo anniversary persent. She eventually got me to come check out some private sale ring she wanted, it was $400 and I was planning on spending $200 on the weekender. I said, I'd chip in half for it because she really wanted it. She was happy.

 

Shortly afterwards she wanted to talk to me, she needed to borrow her half for the ring. I told her Id need to check my finances because I wasnt sure. Later on that night I gave her my bankcard to get some fast food as I was going over to her house. She told me she had drained my bank account and I was upset because I needed money to get to work and she did not ask. She thought she had asked because she asked for the loan, I was upset because I told her I'd have to see. Later that night, unable to sleep, I went into her wallet and took the money back, and left her with $50 (of my money). She was very upset that I took the money back but I told her I felt it was unfair to have to negotiate for my own money back first thing in the morning and she didnt ask.

 

Month 7

 

Doing OK in my job I was noticing every paycheck she was asking me for money. Even three days after payday she needed $60 for medication, $300 for rent, $25 for gas, plus I was paying for all the dates and the places we were going were sometimes stupidly expensive (some asian hot pot where soup for two cost over $60 - she picked the place too).

 

My calculations were that she was now costing me $250 a paycheck, in requested gifts, loans, gifts, etc. The last straw was when she didnt have enough money to fix a blown tire, so I thought I'd be nice and just buy her 2 new tires for her car, it cost me about $200. Three days later she asked me for $200 cash. Feeling a bit used, I lied to her and told her I didnt have that much because of the outlay on the tires I already bought her.

 

She was also asking for expensive gifts, to the tune of diamond rings. She now wanted to "collect" several diamond wedding/engagement sets, citing that she had four before and her previous ex screwed up somehow and she had to sell them all and wanted them back. I was dismayed, she just had gotten a diamond cluster promise ring worth $1000 that I paid half for (the $400 private sale), here she was asking for more diamonds only weeks later. I told her my policy on diamonds: promise, engagement, wedding, and special wedding anniversaries. She was upset and wondered why I couldnt do something "just because". She was looking at $300--$700 diamond rings, these werent little trinkets. She then implied that maybe someone else would buy it for her - I stopped her right there and almost left. I told her another guy buys you a diamond ring and its not your father we're done. She was pouty and dropped the topic.

 

Her depression from before was gone, but she was suffering from anxiety still given the medications. Slowly a whole littany of things causing her worry surfaced - her father was ill, she was ill, she missed her kids, and she couldnt really get enough energy to get out of bed. She would want to stay at home and spend an inordinate amount of time alone, and our meetings gravitated to me only going to her house. The closest she'd come to my house was to pick me up and bring me over. Plus our visits over the previous months had slowly turned into going over to her house, sleeping then her waking up at work.

 

She had no energy to do much of anything. She was always bad for wanting to spend all of our time together in the bedroom, either sleeping or having sex, mostly sleeping. However she would have lots of time to gamble and play poker, or see some male friend for movies, dinner, lunch, the mall.

 

I started to get wise, and realized she has a gambling problem, a serious one. Her anxiety and need for money was because of the awful mess she had created for herself. I was feeling like a VISA card because she always needed money to gamble. I realized what was going on and tried to talk to her about it, which got me a sharp rebuke.

 

Month 8

 

I had gotten wise about the money. It was hard to cut her off because she helped me so much when I was screwed, she even had my utilities put into her name and gave me a cellphone. However I had paid for every bill a full 30 days in advance of the bill ever arriving and all I ever really got from her was some much needed cigarettes and she took me out for food often. I at this point had already written of $150 in debts she owed me because I didnt want to argue about it, she'd get very annoyed if I ever asked about money owed to me even when it was late. Last straw for me was I told her to come over because I had $150 for the bills in cash for her. As soon as I had told her to come pick up the bill money, she asked for another $60 for her medication. She had been paid three days prior and got tips two days later. I obliged but I was sick of this. Its hard for me to ask anyone for money, its a point of pride. This girl couldnt even take $60 out of $150 that I gave her to get her meds when the bills I was giving her the money for werent going to be due for 60 days, plus she got about $200 in tips in two days after that.

 

The meetings with male friends continued. She went to the US for a trip to go gambling on a rare day off and had plans with me the following day to go to a parade. She said she'd call me when she returned to town that night, but I got no call or text. She didnt call me until mid afternoon the next day, came and grabbed me and went to the usual her place.

 

That night she asked me if I thought we'd still be friends if we ever broke up. Came right out of left field, I asked her what that was about. She'd been avoiding me over the previous week. I asked her flat out if she wanted to break up and she was bullheadedly adamant she didnt want to do that. Which had me confused.

 

She was very evasive the next week. She and I finally hooked up the following weekend and she told me she'd like to take a break. I again asked if she wanted to break up but again she was bullheadedly adamant. I tried to talk about what had spurred this, but she was evasive and cited all of these issues, anxiety, father illness, now a grandmother, and her own health she had some problems. I was flabbergasted.

 

During this time I took a hard think about everything that was going on. I realized that in the massive pool which was her problems, gambling, anxiety disorder, depression, health, her missing her kids, her families health, her tiredness due to the medication, that I was getting consumed by her problems.

 

I decided that I was going to have my needs met one way or another, or I was leaving this relationship. At core was the fact that in over 6 months I had not met a single one of her friends. She had all these co workers and friends and male friends she hung out with but I had never met a single one fo them. Her parents, when she went to visit them, she openly admitted she didnt even mention me to them. Also, I wanted to do crap other than sit around at her house and sleep with her, the sex was great but not that frequent and most of the time I was like a big teddy bear to hold onto at night.

 

When I brought this up to her she was angry and threw a bunch of stuff at me about trust. I told her I just wanted to meet her friends, especially the male ones she was hanging around with and that what I was asking was perfectly reasonable but she was really mad, then crying, accusing me of not trusting her. I told her it was making me uncomfortable and that after 8 months I should be a part of her life, not a closet boyfriend. Her defence was that she likes to keep her friends, work, and boyfriend all seperate. I blamed the gambling; its easier to hide a problem if the people you hang out with think you are only gambling with them.

 

I was trying to wait for her to start getting a bit better after the meds and I was willing to be patient but things were getting worse instead of better.

 

She then next time asked me to come over and wild sex. Another time we hung out and it was like the break had never happened, I tried to bring it up but then she was too tired to talk about it. Then she had another rare day off and had booked another trip to go to the states to gamble. My sister works at that casino - so I said why dont I come, I can hang out with my sister, she said no it was only girls allowed.

 

I blew my lid.

 

I told her that there were going to have to be major changes or this was over.

 

Then after an email exchange because I didnt really feel like talking to her, she was all upset and mad I'd accuse her of having a gambling problem. She called me crying after a few days of this saying why would I say she is such a bad person, and I told her she wasnt a bad person but that I had to have my basic needs met and that I wasnt being unreasonable. She said she still cared about me.

 

I later saw her a week later and she came and stayed the night at my house and didnt ask me for money which was a marked change from the previous 5 weeks. There was no talk about the core issues. We also went out for breakfast which was also something that had not happened in months (not just breakfast, restaurants altogether). She was all strong and confident (one of my complaints was that I only got the anxious ball of tension and tired irritability and that she was having a great time gambling), and was asking me how I felt about having such a pretty, confident girlfriend in a joking manner.

 

Well after all of that I'm still frustrated. I was dead serious about this break up thing. I dont hate her, she is a really nice person, but I'm not having my needs met. With all her problems, I might be able to better be there for her as a friend than as a boyfriend; I have some basic expectations of a girlfriend and not meeting her friends, having her family not know about me, and having her gambling for 15 hours or hanging out with male friends for 8 hours (which I also beleive was a cover for gambling) going to movies and dinner but all I'd get was an hour before sleep and to wait around while she got ready for work, she'd never plan to spend a day off with me in months.

 

Well when she had said she wanted the break I was really ready for a break up, so I went onto POF wrote up a profile, figured I'd see what else was out there. My profile got an amazing number of quality responses, I've never had that much luck in online dating before. I met a really cool girl that wants a lot of the same things as me and who is really calm and honest and seems to have her mental sh*t together.

 

After my last talk with my "girlfriend" I did ask her what she wanted from me and "us". She said she didnt know what she wanted (this was the night before breakfast). I'm not even sure if she is still processing what I was telling her I needed from her in order to maintain the relationship or not. I havent really talked to her much in four days since that night, she has called me to wish me good night twice but nothing else, and I found out she has just had two days off and she again hasnt really even attempted to make any plan at all for the next time we see eachother.

 

Figuring I'd be cool to just get out there and meet this great girl I talked to online. I had told the girl I really wanted to play it really slow and not get caught up and rush into anything. Well she was fantastic, it felt like I have known her for years (we had talked on the phone for about a combined 16 hours over two weeks since the 'break'). It felt so comfortable, no walking on eggshells, we talked for hours, we watched a movie, cuddled. We were both holding back but... BAM. Yeah one phenomenal night and I really would like to see her again.

 

So my conundrum is this (and I do apologize for the stupidly long post - but do feel free to give me stupidly long answers)

 

1. How do I make sure this 'girlfriend' know dead to rights that there will be change or the relationship is over? She seems to just sweep it under the rug. I dont like to feel like I'm cheating, and I may just be, but this relationship is locked in limbo land. I've been dreadfully clear, I even had my mother read my e-mails I sent to her, but the 'girlfriend' doesnt want to respond to the issues.

 

2. If I do break up with her, I would very much like to remain friends with her. She is a very nice person, maybe an awful girlfriend in her state but she is quite a kind nice person to be around. Laughably, I may actually spend more time with her as a "friend" than as a boyfriend, given hour outings over the previous months. Also my utilities are all listed in her name, I dont want to inflame the situation so bad she gets all mad and just cuts them off. I'm just not ready at this point I've been paying down business debts like mad like credit cards and utilities its expensive to have a business fail on you.

 

3. If the girl does promise to change, what do I do? I dont much like to give up on people and like to give them a chance. However I met this new girl and she sems great and relaxed, which kind of puts me in a conundrum again. I know this girl wont sit around on her hands while I give my (ex?) girlfriend a second chance, nor would I expect her to that would be a collosal waste of her time. Do I outline some sort of reasonable expectations and then if she is yanking my chain break it off and hope the new girl is still around? Tell her I'm done with second chances we're better as friends? What?

 

4. For my own sake, after telling my "girlfriend" who asked about breaking up a month ago and asked for a "break" two weeks ago, and then me telling her i cant continue down this road any longer, big changes or the relationship is done and getting no answer from her, am I being a dick for falling into the arms of someone who is not only great, but who actually seems to want to spend time with me talking and spending time with me other than sleeping or asking me for money? Am I "cheating" on my limbo land girlfriend? I didnt really go there intending to stay the night at this chicks house; but what happened happened and nobody put a gun to my head. I thought I was being very clear. However just three days ago the limbo land girlfriend is referring to herself as my "girlfriend", yet no discussions of the issues at hand despite my ultimatem.

 

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Sorry again for the length. If you manage to read this far, I'm sure you have a phenomenal response that will last more than six words for me. I'd be very appreciative.

 

:-) many thanks.

[ADF]

Sorry you haven't gotten quality advice. But I'll tell you right now, you're unlikely to get ANY advice unless you cut this novel down by several chapters.

[GrayClouds]

PREFACE- Ok long post but I type fast and its hard to get quality advice only giving fragments of the story.

Actually the more succinct you are the better the advice.

 

I will refer to all timelines relatively, as in what month of the relationship it was in because months can become confusing.

Sadly what you just said was confusing.

 

I'm really pretty close to ready to break up to this girl, I've actually talked to her about it, and the reason I'm curious about advice or perspectives is because the girl doesnt seem to process my concerns.

Maybe you did not make yourself very clear(it is not the first time), and if you did then you already have your answer.

However please be well thought out and constructive. On these sites often responses are so shallow its difficult to get anything useful out of them.

If this statement reflects any similar attitude you held with in the realtionship you may want to look more internally to find the problem of this relationship.

 

I'd been wanting out for a while but as the girl had BPD it was a nightmare communicating to her because anything would cause her to totally explode.

So why did you not leave earlier then?

 

I met this new girl (topic of post) and she had broken up for the same reason and we rebounded together pretty good. She talked a lot of her ex and his cheating and lying and I shared my experiences.

So instead of using the break-up to understand what contributing factors you had in the destruction of the realtionship, try to understand why you choose a person with BDP as a good mate, and allowing yourself time to heal and grow after the break up, you instead are proud of "rebounding together pretty good". Not the healthiest way to enter a new realtionship.

I was completely over my girl not sad about it at all, really happy actually, ready to date the very next day and that's when I met this girl.

Was that you who was earlier shallow? If this is your attitude towards realtionships, you should really rethink about being in a relationship until you can fully committee the depth of your heart and soul in someone. Anything less is not fair to the other person.

 

She was sad about it, she had moved cities with the guy and had no real friends here in he city in which we live now. A lot of what we talked about was the antics he was pulling in the form of nasty e-mail messages and drunken rants, what its like, etc.

So rather then waiting until she had healed from her break-up you figured she was perfect realtionship material.

Sex was great and she is a looker. I told her I wanted to move slow because I didnt want to get too emotionally involved at the time

Do you see that you may have the order how a relationship should develop a bit mixed up? Here is a thought next time try emotional intimacy first.

I even offered her a FWB relationship

You are the sweet talker aren't you? Such a generous person, surprisingly she did not jump at the wonderful offer.

 

At this point the woman and I had decided to be boyfriend girlfriend and I was still very insistent that we take it slow.

So your having sex, calling yourself boyfriend girlfriend but yet you still want to take it slow, sorry man but that horse is already out of the barn.

She had also become exceedingly clingy.

Your unwilling to fully commit and your surprised she is feeling insecure about you.

 

She started talking about suicide and jumping off bridges, usually combined with a whole "when I need you most you aren't there" mentality/discussion when I was getting annoyed at her getting extremely irritable and angry over separating from me, even if just for a few hours or an evening.

 

3 Months

 

She was talking about wanting to live together but the emotional instability and talk about suicide continued. She had met my parents and family but she steadfastly refused to spend Xmas with me and my family, even though her family was in another city, she said she was going to spend it alone. She had kids in her old hometown I chalked it up to missing them and feeling guilty for being around a family that wasnt maybe her parents and her kids (2 different exes).

So think of your last EX and now this girl. Do you see a pattern? What is the constant in both cases?

She asked for us to take a break around christmastime and I told her, Ok then if you want a break then lets break up, its done. I flipped all my statuses to single and didnt really think much else of it.

Once again you are showing great commitment to your relationship and great depth of feelings, not.

I chalked her problems up to depression and when she said she was ready now and wanted the break to end I told her that if we were going to be together she needed to talk to somone, GP, therapist, someone qualified about depression because it was just too much for me.

I always had closed off conversations where she mentioned suicide, I told her, keep talking like that and I'm going to hang up and call an ambulance to your house. I'm not qualified to deal with that and you shouldnt be dumping that stuff on me.

I hate to think how you would treat someone you did not care for.

I was very impresssed and proud of her, she talked to her doc who prescribed her antidepressants. Almost immediately, on the first day, her mood was much better and more stable. She wasnt edgy, she was talkative, she had a positive outlook on life. I'm sure a lot of it was the placebo effect that she had actually done something about her issue and the crying spells and talk of suicide stopped.

 

Mid month the meds were doubled as part of the original presction (they taper up someone on a new med). Around the time of the med increase, she became emotionally unavailable, the clingyness turned into indifference. She started gambling something feirce racking up $5,000 in losses in 9 days. I was very worried about her thought it was the meds.

And what did you do to help?

 

I had a crazy ex girlfriend also drop some legal papers on me looking for child support and a restraining order out of nowhere.

So we are up to 3 crazy girlfiriends Do you see a pattern? What is the constant in both cases?

She had not only started gambling a lot more than before but she was now also meeting male friends she had met at work at a casino for dinners and going to movies with them. A couple of them gave her roses which I was pretty choked about, one of them gave her 2 laptops. I talked to her about it but it was difficult, as she was very honest about going out with these people, telling me before and coming to my house after. I'd been cheated on in the past and these "dates" (although she refused to call them this) brought back troubling memories.

 

I had a few blowouts where she was out for undefined amounts of time that got longer and longer. I eventually realized she was at the casino. When I told her I was going to come to the casino to see her, she told me if I came she'd never talk to me again. I was flabbergasted, called her bluff and told her I had a friend there and wanted to know who the guy was. She said it was her boss and she didnt want me there.

 

I was beginning to be very troubled by this behavior, however she insisted that she was gambling to make extra money she needed. I gater shes under the illusion that she is a semipro poker player, even though she kept losing money. Whether she was out with guy friends or girl friends she was out playing poker. Not just a few hours, longest session was 21 hours and shortest is usually about 5 hours, average is 10-15 hours.

Yet you stayed with her, why? Are you really that afraid of being alone?

 

reduce libido and it is quite well known it's hard to feel "love" when you're on them.

Well known? Sorry but libido is not the same as feeling love.

Shortly afterwards she wanted to talk to me, she needed to borrow her half for the ring. I told her Id need to check my finances because I wasnt sure. Later on that night I gave her my bankcard to get some fast food as I was going over to her house. She told me she had drained my bank account and I was upset because I needed money to get to work and she did not ask. She thought she had asked because she asked for the loan, I was upset because I told her I'd have to see. Later that night, unable to sleep, I went into her wallet and took the money back, and left her with $50 (of my money). She was very upset that I took the money back but I told her I felt it was unfair to have to negotiate for my own money back first thing in the morning and she didnt ask.

So you both steal from each other, do you see this as a healthy way to live?

 

Month 7...

Sorry but it is really a bit too redundant from here on out.

 

So what is the bottom line. You jump into a new realtionship and once again you have choose a crazy person. Though crazy women is the least of your problems. The biggest issue is yours.

 

Yes walk away from this relationship. Then stay away from all relationships for a long, long time. Stay away until you have done some really hard work to understand why you choose such poor choices, why your willing to put up with such poor behavior, why your so unwilling to commit to a real realtionship. You need to find the courage to accept you have a where you unhealthy belief of what love and realtionship and then find the courage to learn new patterns of behavior to stop repeating your mistakes.

 

After spending 4000 words talking about her, you need to know it is all about you. It is time to work on yourself.

 

I'm sure you have a phenomenal response that will last more than six words for me. I'd be very appreciative.

I hope you still are...

[4567sd]

I did not read your entire message, but I read enough of it to think that this is not something you want in your life. Too much drama. Life is too short for all of this. It sounds like a nightmare to me. Just try to find someone you can enjoy the simple things with, treat each other well as much as you can, it's much more fun and a lot more satisfying. Good Luck.

[SarahRose]

You have knight in shining armor syndrome. You love the train wreck girls because you can save them over and over.

 

The problem is the train wreck girls will cause you nothing but heartache.

 

Realize the type of girls you go for and stay away from that type. Yes normal girls may be boring but it's your choice and your life.

[Ilovecake]

First you are quite specific and demanding in how you would like the advice to be given, which sounds rude and then you post a novella. You're giving way too much unnecessary information so yeah your advice will be quite shallow because people can only skim what you have written. I gave up after month 0.

[GrayClouds]

First you are quite specific and demanding in how you would like the advice to be given, which sounds rude and then you post a novella. You're giving way too much unnecessary information so yeah your advice will be quite shallow because people can only skim what you have written. I gave up after month 0.

 

I would argue that mine was not shallow but do suspect unwanted but not unwarranted.

[ktya]

I did not read your entire message, but I read enough of it to think that this is not something you want in your life. Too much drama. Life is too short for all of this. It sounds like a nightmare to me. Just try to find someone you can enjoy the simple things with, treat each other well as much as you can, it's much more fun and a lot more satisfying. Good Luck.

 

Yeah, *sigh*, you're probably right. I'm kind of at that point. The breaking point for me was a second rare day off on a weekend, I wanted to take her out for a day at the aquarium and downtown and turned out she had planned a casino trip across the border... I asked if I could come and she said I couldnt come and it was girls only. Given she just made the same trip two weeks prior and that my sister works at that casino that was the point that put me over the edge.

 

I guess I'm here because I kind of feel bad to dump her, she has by and large been pretty good to me, but between the gambling, anxiety, depression, health problems, health problems in her family, and all her other worries its like navigating a minefield to do anything other than go to her house watch tv for half an hour then sleep and then she wakes up and goes to work. Yet when she goes to the casino she has no problem waking up in the morning and spending 15 hours and having a great time.

 

I'm sure she definitely needs professional help, both from a gambling specialist as well as some sort of a psychologist or counsellor for her issues, I cant be her therapist and boyfriend at the same time. I'm thinking I might be better able to be there for her and help her as a friend, because then I wouldnt have expectations that things should get better and end up either fighting with her or being resentful about it.

[ktya]

You have knight in shining armor syndrome. You love the train wreck girls because you can save them over and over.

 

The problem is the train wreck girls will cause you nothing but heartache.

 

Realize the type of girls you go for and stay away from that type. Yes normal girls may be boring but it's your choice and your life.

 

True... The problem is, they just seem so god damn NORMAL when I meet them for the first three months. I look for flags all over the place, I try to keep my distance and take things slow. Then it seems I start to get attached and committed and THEN it all comes flying out one issue at a time.

[ktya]

I would argue

 

That, you would. There are some gems in your post however your tone really wrecks it. This isnt an argument where he with the most smart ass remarks wins the race. This is a real situation here, it's difficult and two people's feelings are involved.

[GrayClouds]

However please be well thought out and constructive. On these sites often responses are so shallow its difficult to get anything useful out of them..

 

I guess a statement like that may have set the tone.

 

Do you think you may be using my "tone" as avoidance to addressing the content?

 

Despite you setting the tone, I chose to respond with thought and consideration. Now are you willing to do the same or are you just wanting people to justify ending a incredibly unhealthy relationship with a lying, cheating, steeling, emotionally unstable individual to stroke your ego that none of your poor choices are your own doing?

 

.

Edited June 23, 2010 by GrayClouds

[ktya]

Do you think you may be using my "tone" as avoidance to addressing the content?

 

Nope. I've admined a lot of really busy forum boards, and I've participated in a lot more. I was just qualifying the kinds of answers I was looking for. In part, by writing a long dialogue, it was so I wasnt caught up in a long barrage of clarifications because I didn't give out all the details in the first place.

 

Like I said, there were some gems in what you had to say, once the tone was filtered out of it. Your ideas are sound, if the delivery method is a bit echinated.

 

However there's no real need to respond to them. I'm the one asking for advice / perspectives, this isnt a debate or an argument. You've stated your point of view, which is all I asked for, so thanks.

[GrayClouds]

Nope. I've admined a lot of really busy forum boards, and I've participated in a lot more. I was just qualifying the kinds of answers I was looking for. In part, by writing a long dialogue, it was so I wasnt caught up in a long barrage of clarifications because I didn't give out all the details in the first place.

 

Like I said, there were some gems in what you had to say, once the tone was filtered out of it. Your ideas are sound, if the delivery method is a bit echinated.

 

However there's no real need to respond to them. I'm the one asking for advice / perspectives, this isnt a debate or an argument. You've stated your point of view, which is all I asked for, so thanks.

"We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us." - Nietzsche

Edited June 24, 2010 by GrayClouds

[LucreziaBorgia]

You may want to stop trying to save these lost causes, and work on how to save yourself from continuing to be involved with them.

[ktya]

You may want to stop trying to save these lost causes, and work on how to save yourself from continuing to be involved with them.

 

mmm.. yes. this is part of why i am seeking advice, I guess. The girl that I met has her proverbial sh*t together, she has obtained her undergrad degree and is busy persuing her masters, all while being a single parent for the past five years and asking for nor wanting or receiving help from anyone.

 

In a way, I guess I'm asking for advice because I dont want to cloud my judgment by putting these two side by side, I want to be fair to the first girl, and determine whether I'm being too harsh to her. While I must admit I was (and am) ready to break up with the girl over her ever longer list of issues that are dominating our relationship (which was the reason I met this other girl in the first place), I am concerned that I want to be fair to the girl and only break up with her due to issues between her and I.

 

I guess I'm tired of playing the dysfunctional dance; I want a regular type girlfriend that I can go off and do stuff with, one who will be around for regular type (my regular type, of course 'regular' is a loaded word in the eye of the beholder) dinners, nights at eachothers houses, hanging out in the back yard, going for walks, going to the park sort of stuff, and most important of all - conversation; about something other than 'her' issues.

 

The whole not meeting any of her friends and not being allowed to after 8 months, nor letting her family know that I exist really bugs me too. Thats not normal at all; makes me feel like a boyfriend in the closet.

[GrayClouds]

mmm.. yes. this is part of why i am seeking advice, I guess. The girl that I met has her proverbial sh*t together, she has obtained her undergrad degree and is busy persuing her masters, all while being a single parent for the past five years and asking for nor wanting or receiving help from anyone.

 

The girl you met is not the girls she is, you are holding on hard to what you think could be, should be, would be if she just do as you wish. It is simple not who she is, and you simple do not have the ability to change her into who you want her to be.

 

The question is why after all this time, her unreasonable behavior, you are finding it so hard to let go? For one to so easily a declare the ability to end the realtionship:

While I must admit I was (and am) ready to break up with the girl

communicates they are already detached from it. So the question once again returns to why you are having so hard of a time to let go? While you cloak it in "fairness" , which sounds noble, if your honest with yourself I suspect you will see it has more to do with your own issues.

 

This point is bolster by the your willingness to only communicate about the girl and her issues or the relationship in general.

 

It is not about the girl. You have a consistent pattern of trying to build relationships with, in your words, crazy girls. That pattern is yours and yours alone. Do you have the courage to look inward? It means letting go of of your protective ego, and doing some hard work.

 

So to answer the question if you should stay or go with this girl, a bigger question needs to be answered first; Do you want to change this pattern or not. If not then stay with her because she is giving you what you want. If you want to change the pattern, leave this girl, find the courage to be alone and answer the question why are you attracted to these trype of realtionships and how can you start to learn a healthier way to love?

 

 

.

[ktya]

The girl you met is not the girls she is, you are holding on hard to what you think could be, should be, would be if she just do as you wish. It is simple not who she is, and you simple do not have the ability to change her into who you want her to be.

 

dude you are making false assumptions based on information that is right infront of you. the girl i met is a girl i met after i realized that it wasnt working with the girl i'm looking at dumping. its a completely different person. i let it out with the 'girlfriend' after she asked for 'a break' that things had to change or the relationship was over. she never talked about changing for two weeks and now seems to have conveniently forgotten that whole set of conversation and still figures things are just ducky. hence, give her a second chance or ... ?

 

The question is why after all this time, her unreasonable behavior, you are finding it so hard to let go? For one to so easily a declare the ability to end the realtionship

 

again you make some real false assumptions. its not hard for me to let go, when she asked for a break 6 months ago i just flatly told her, ok then lets break up, if you want a break and you chastised me for being an insensitive jerk. If your going to be so prickly, at least be consistent man.

 

While you cloak it in "fairness" , which sounds noble, if your honest with yourself I suspect you will see it has more to do with your own issues.

 

Like i said the girl bailed me out of a rough situation. I am a very loyal person. If someone makes a mistake or has some troubles i dont like to just dump them like a potato. She has a long laundry list of emotional and mental problems plus possibly a serious gambling addiction. The catch is, do i stick with her and help her through like i promised i would, or realize things are getting worse not better and cut my losses? This isnt a 2 month relationship, its over 8 months.

 

This point is bolster by the your willingness to only communicate about the girl and her issues or the relationship in general.

 

No it is not. I know what the hell I want out of a relationship. I used to get it from this girl, now I am not and I'm getting real tired of waiting. I explained all this in my original post.

 

It is not about the girl. You have a consistent pattern of trying to build relationships with, in your words, crazy girls. That pattern is yours and yours alone.

 

Crazy girls have a unique way of picking up guys. It's called acting like they are normal and putting on a mask. When you are just getting to know someone, you dont follow them around and fact check every single thing they say, that is called psychotic paranoia. Eventually, as months pass, they start to come to the surface with issues, and you can end up with someone whos one little issue after another gets overwhelming. I didnt pick BPD girl knowing she had BPD, if you read about it people with BPD are amazingly charismatic in the beginning phase of a relationship and do not show any of their behaviors until they get really close to you - henceforth you are very attached - then they just open the floodgates - and by that time you're already living with them, married to them, or have kids with them and you're trapped in the dysfunctional dance.

 

Crazy woman before that suddenly told me she was pregnant and i found out she was married at the same time, when i told her straight up i want no girlfriend right now and i dont want you to get too attached because I'm not ready. Try dealing with that one. In the end, the kid wasnt mine and it was all a ruse to try to soak me for support payments, dna proved that. But it was an awful ride.

 

You keep laying it out like I am obsessed with crazy chicks. This is an assumption you are making which is entirely false. There are crazy women out there, and I've had the bad luck of finding two or maybe three in a row. My fiancee before that wasnt crazy at all, i was with her 9 years and I've been thrust into the dating game 10 years later. I'm rusty at picking the right girls, not dealing with some internal issues that force me to only go with nutters.

 

If I was into nutters, why would I be ready to break up with this girl in the first place? I'm tired of trying to save her and have her just keep adding more problems into the mix. If it was just depression or anxiety and she was doing something about it, i could handlie. Throw in gambling problems and all the absentee girlfriend crap and the fact i cant meet her friends and I'm saying this changes or I'm done.

 

The problem if you had read... is that now I've met a great, normal girl who has her undergrad degree, her act totally together, and it clicked much quicker than I thought it possibly could, while I was under the impression that me and the girlfriend were just plain done. Now I'm under the gun, be fair if she wants a second chance to try to change things, and how to structure that, or just terminate it and dont allow the second chance because things will probably never change. Do I give her a second chance if she promises to change, or not?

 

When I was griping about your tone it was not because your opinons were unwelcome, it was because you merely were setting the bait for an argument. Your little quote there and continuous follow up on this thread shows it. Your ideas are sound, if somewhat far reaching and in some cases not really relevant to the situation at hand at all.

 

I am not arguing with you about this situation because I am looking for real solutions. To me, sitting single when I have been looking for a quality relationship when I am somewhat quality relationship starved is not a solution. I have a great girl sitting on the sidelines waiting to move things further and I'm holding her back, which wont go on forever, that is for sure.

 

The solutions to my dilemma here are either play it out and see if the girl just wants to break up anyway, if she just ignored my very clear communications then put it to her straight and hard, or if she wants a second chance to try to change, either give her the second chance or not.

 

I know what I want. I'm not getting it out of this relationship. 8 months in and things havent changed. Its time to cut bait or move onto the next candidate. Relationships, like most other things like sales, or job seeking, are merely a numbers game. Meet enough people and eventually you'll find the right one. That - is exactly what I've been doing.

[GrayClouds]

dude you are making false assumptions based on information that is right infront of you. the girl i met is a girl i met after i realized that it wasnt working with the girl i'm looking at dumping. its a completely different person. i let it out with the 'girlfriend' after she asked for 'a break' that things had to change or the relationship was over. she never talked about changing for two weeks and now seems to have conveniently forgotten that whole set of conversation and still figures things are just ducky. hence, give her a second chance or ... ?

 

No you misunderstand my point; the girl you are currently with is not in reality the person you thought she was. She is not the person you who first meet, she is this person who chooses to lie, cheat and still from you. She did not change your just seeing the whole picture.

 

It should be a simple decision for you at this point: Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who lies, cheat and steal? Not someone who want to change but this person as she is.

 

again you make some real false assumptions. its not hard for me to let go, when she asked for a break 6 months ago i just flatly told her, ok then lets break up, if you want a break and you chastised me for being an insensitive jerk. If your going to be so prickly, at least be consistent man.

 

The only assumption I made, based upon your words, that this relationship has been very unhealthy for a long time, at a level that most healthy individuals would have walk away long time ago. I not chastising you for being a jerk but pointing out how on one hand you seem to be deeply tied into the drama of the relationship but yet purport a certain ease to dissociate from the person.

 

I am trying to help you see that at some point you may have mistakingly learned that love only exist in a context of drama / dysfunction. As you stated this experience, shares similarities with your previous relationship in that you each time have pick unstable women.

 

Like i said the girl bailed me out of a rough situation. I am a very loyal person. If someone makes a mistake or has some troubles i dont like to just dump them like a potato. She has a long laundry list of emotional and mental problems plus possibly a serious gambling addiction. The catch is, do i stick with her and help her through like i promised i would, or realize things are getting worse not better and cut my losses? This isnt a 2 month relationship, its over 8 months.

Loyalty is a wonderful trait, but in this case it is not "some troubles" it is a myriad misfortune which at any point already she consistently chose not to address. In situation like that it is no longer loyalty, it transgress to co-dependency.

 

No it is not. I know what the hell I want out of a relationship. I used to get it from this girl, now I am not and I'm getting real tired of waiting. I explained all this in my original post.

 

I guess I did not make my point well. Was not about if you knew what you want out of a relationship, but why you finding it so difficult to see that likely break-up reflects as much on you as it does her, and why that conversation appears so difficult for you to enter in to.

 

 

Crazy girls have a unique way of picking up guys.

That make it sound like you see yourself as a victim. We attract what we think we deserve and keep what we want. Everyone can make misjudgments, to do it three times in a row is a pattern. A pattern within your ability to change.

 

You keep laying it out like I am obsessed with crazy chicks. This is an assumption you are making which is entirely false./QUOTE]

No I am saying that you are attracting these types and unaware of it, and it is important you understand why.

Compare this statement:

not dealing with some internal issues that force me to only go with nutters.

With this one:

To me, sitting single when I have been looking for a quality relationship when I am somewhat quality relationship starved is not a solution.

Do you see that maybe the latter statement is a contributing factor to who you are selecting?

 

For most who come here, eventual discovers their relationships and break-up speak more of who they are then who they are with. It is those who understand our own worth, can enjoy our own company, and having taken the time to understand biases and how they can get in our way are the ones who find the quality relationships you desire. Why sitting single, taking to time to grow and learning to enjoy being alone, and getting to a point where a relationship simply compliments your life rather then being the thing that feeds it is not a solution for you when it is the one that is overwhelming recommended to most on LS?

 

However please be well thought out and constructive. On these sites often responses are so shallow its difficult to get anything useful out of them.

and

I'm sure you have a phenomenal response that will last more than six words for me.

and

When I was griping about your tone it was not because your opinons were unwelcome, it was because you merely were setting the bait for an argument. Your little quote there and continuous follow up on this thread shows it. Your ideas are sound, if somewhat far reaching and in some cases not really relevant to the situation at hand at all.

These statements and others communicates arrogance. You in your first post made assumption before anyone could respond about the quality of advice you would received. As a result those, and the length of your post (which you felt was needed to receive quality response which to shows arrogance) few people even bother to respond.

 

You then that same arrogance believes it has the ability to understand my motivation. It becomes defense when I do not offer the obvious and simple answer "The girl's a mess, walk away" and actually give you a deeper more insightful response that you proclaim to want.

 

That arrogance and defensive suggest ego. Ego that is getting in your way of getting what you say you want. It is that ego that thinks you can do something to fix this girl. It is ego that is telling you it is bad luck rather then poor choices. It is ego telling you that It is ego that is that it is all a number game. It is ego that does not believe it is important to try to understand why you are repeating patterns. It is ego that is making you resistant to see this is not about her but you. It is ego that is blinds you from see that your quality relationship starvation is a hunger for a quality relationship with yourself.

 

You asked advice, and that is was my motivation. And the best advice can offer was to try to help you look beyond the tree to see the forest, to help you see that you deserve more then your getting, and how you may be getting in your own way of it happening.

 

If this initiative is to earnest, then my six word answer is:

"The girl's a mess, walk away"

 

 

 

.

[ktya]

Grayclouds, like I had said I was looking for well thought out answers and that was part of the reason I wrote such a long post and asked for more concise answers. Of course by pre-qualifying what I'm looking for I'm going to turn some people off. However quality over quantity is important.

 

I know on boards like this one and other relationship boards, it's easy to get a long barrage of anwers like, "dump her, she's trash" or "your a jerk" or "stay with her". Those type of answers without the understanding of why are not very helpful.

 

I do notice that your tone changed significantly in your last post, I do thank you for that. I never said that your ideas were wrong or false, just the delivery method was a bit aggressive and was more along the lines of setting the stage for an argument than to help me come up with a constructive solution to my dilemma.

 

The girl has issues, yes. She is a good person. I think she has a gambling addiction, which drives her to hide how much she gambles; problem gamblers are caught up in a web of hoplessness and despair, they gamble in order to give themselves hope of recovering from the financial mess they have created and this in and of itself is a perpetuation of the very problem in the first place. They cloak their activities so that others dont know how deep they are caught in it because they are embarassed. While these issues are certainly NOT the kinds of issues that one would go out seeking in a partner, if a loved one comes down with a health affliction or addiction, it is not always the best advice to simply break up with them and move on. Sometimes the love of helping another through a tough time creates a bond that is extremely strong and unbreakable.

 

I disagree with your presumption that I have a penchant for crazy women. I can understand that if I had three women with mental issues in a row over 2 years yeah, coming from that perspective you could make that assumption. However the devil is in the details. How did I end up with these women? What were the circumstances? How did the relationships start? What flags did I miss? What flags did I catch and ignore? However TBH I think my problems with finding crazy women have been more along the lines of being rusty at selection and geting back into the game after a 9 year long term relationship. Its been over 2 years since that ended, and I had my three strikes, but to sit and not try to fulfill my goal of having someone to emotionally connect to is definitely not an option.

 

At my stage in life, having a solid relationship partner is a very important goal. I am in my mid-30s. Not everyone in my age range may share that goal; nor should they, however that is mine.

 

Anyways the discussion is largely moot now. For the past several weeks I have been letting my girlfriend know that I am going to expect changes to the relationship in order for it to continue. She somewhat swept it under the rug, and wanted the status quo to prevail. Now, after a month of in-out-in-out I let her know that we are just friends now.

 

She is a very great person and I am sure once she figures out herself and her issues she will make a phenomenal mate for someone. Maybe even me. However for now, she has just too much issues on her plate to be of much use to anyone in a relationship.

 

She understands this, and echoed my concerns. She doesn't want me to wait around for her to be ready for a relationship, and we're going to remain friends.

 

I can help her better as a friend than a boyfriend. Having these expectations of a 'normal' relationship and feeling forced into co-dependency to try to normalize things leaves me with too much hidden resentment and leaves her feeling too much pressure. If things continued on the trajectory they were on, it would only make her issues worse and cause us to argue and fight.

 

So now I am broken up with her and I can be there for her as a friend. Sadly, the only friend that she has that does not gamble. One day, she may realize her gambling problem, and I'd be honored if I was the first person she came to to talk to abotu getting help.

 

The new girl, she is fantastic. I've told her virtually everything and she is very understanding. It feels like she has been my girlfriend for five years it is so relaxed. She wants the same things that I do out of life, and we share many opinions and interests although we differ on a variety of things. Maybe this is the right one, maybe not. It does not really matter. We can never really learn if someone is the right person without trying.

 

My biggest complication and reason for making this post was because I did not want to abandon my now ex girlfriend if she felt that she wanted to try to change. I was somewhat fearful that I would end up in a cycle 'hoping' for the promised changes and not seeing them. I dont like to give up on people - mostly because I wouldnt want someone to give up on me if I needed help or hit a rough patch. And this girl did not. However, the now ex girlfriend did not make an overture for change to save the relationship and has admitted that she's not really focused on having a relationship at this time and that I deserve to be happy with someone who is.

 

So the case is closed, nobody is hurt and weeping, I am free to persue the other girl without feeling guilty, and I get to remain friends with my now ex girlfriend because my new interest understands the scenario as to why I broke up with her and that I would like to remain friends.

 

Win win win for everyone. So thanks for the time you put into the topic.