Hm. Not sure how to proceed :/

[Inflikted]

Before I get into the issue of this topic, keep in mind, I'm a 25 year old guy, that has zero experience with dating (all aspects of it...), not to mention, I'm socially awkward, and pretty reserved, and really don't have a social life, period. I've only ever really "liked" two girls, and both rejected me, I took it very hard both times, and both resulted in me making a giant fool out of myself, which lead to the girls in question both hating me, and me feeling even worse because of it (honestly, I'm still pretty hung up on the last girl I liked, and that was nearly two years ago...).

 

So, a few months ago, I crossed paths with this girl that goes to the same school as me. We're not in the same classes, but it's fairly common for us to see each other around campus. I kinda got the sense early on that she might have a thing for me, but I really can't tell (and I'm not much in the mood to gamble, after having made such a mess of things in the past). She talks to me almost every time she sees me. Sometimes it's just a simple "hi", other times it feels like she's trying to make conversation. Then again, from what I've seen, she seems pretty friendly with everyone, even other guys she has class with. So I don't know.

 

Thing is, I'm in a really... "weird" sort of place, mentally, because a lot of different factors... Such as:

 

1. I'm lonely, I'm starved for affection and intimacy, and here's a nice, sweet girl that *might* potentially have an interest in me.

 

2. At the same time, I still really want the girl I last had a thing for two years ago (or at least, someone exactly like her), and this girl at school is only "okay", in my mind, in comparison.

 

3. After a few interactions with this girl, I looked her up on Facebook, and basically tried to find things that would be turnoffs to me. Being a bit of a "nitpicker", that wasn't too difficult for me. Most notably, I noticed that the city she lives in is about 30-40 minutes away from me.

 

4. Yet, as much as I keep trying to talk myself out of having any interest in this girl, I find the possibility of her liking me to be peculiar, and I like the attention I get from her (and at the same time, when she's being friendly with other guys, I feel a slight tinge of jealousy).

 

5. But, even if I wanted to pursue her, I don't know how to do any of that. I can barely have a conversation, let alone flirt, ask a girl out, plan out dates, etc. I don't even know where I would take a girl on a date.

 

6. If I ask her out and I'm wrong about her liking me, chances are, things will become awkward at school. Granted, I graduate in a couple of months, but I just don't want to make that time unpleasant for either of us...

 

So, I don't really know what to do. Part of me wants so badly to date and have a girlfriend, but another part of me has these lofty ideals about dating and romance that most people will probably never live up to, and then another part of me is so naive and childlike that I don't even HOW to date a girl, and of course, another part of me is terrified that I'm going to make a big awkward mess with someone all over again.

 

Yeah, as you can clearly see, I overthink things quite a bit. But, that's kind of who I am... I'm a neurotic dope with some nagging anxiety issues. What can I say...?

 

I dunno. Any input?

[shet]

OK. I get your situation. Here is advice for it.

 

First, you're probably onto nothing here. It's a girl on a campus. But you don't know yet and it's within your rights as a single man to think you might be, and find out, and get rejected too. There are ways and means of getting rejected that minimise awkwardness and recovery time from years of crippling depression to a day of mild tension.

 

So, forget the old girl. Do that best by looking at new ones. You only have the one, so that'll do. If you shared classes with this girl, or caught the same bus, basically if you're forced to encounter and deal with her, I'd have said forget it. You're too fragile to take the blow of rejection in that circumstance, all it would take is some whispers and suppressed laughs and you'll be traumatised for another 2 years.

 

You say though that you just run into her on campus, so she's easily avoided. Perfect. What you do is force an encounter with her. Go where you know she goes, don't do your normal thing and hope to run into her, could be waiting weeks, make it happen. Then you rock up, say hi, and ask her either if she'd like to get lunch (if lunchtime approaches) or if she'd like to get a coffee later. Do it when she's alone if you must.

 

If she's interested she'll either say yes or say she's busy but will provide another time. If she doesn't, she isn't interested. She might be wishy washy and unclear, in which case you try it once more the next time you see her. One way or another you'll have your answer. If it's no, you say ok, see you around, and bail. Minimum stress, minimum time, no grounds for embarrassment, she's out of your mind. You meet her in future, you smile and say hi. Or if you can't hack it you just keep walking, whatever you want.

 

If it works and she wants to hang out, that's a bigger deal. Fortunately, it's only lunch or a coffee. Just ask about her life, her major, be interested and keep her talking about herself, her past, her future, and stuff she likes. Conversation is a different thing you'll have to learn.

 

What you need is to learn here is to not fear rejection, and to learn that you need to make it something not to fear, which means getting rejected in straightforward, non-horrific ways. Which is really on you to get, you ask women out in weird ways, you get rejected in a bad way, you focus on it, it reaches a climax of terribleness, you be creepy, you get ridicule. In this particular instance, as a single guy on campus talking to this single girl (is she single, you didn't say? doesn't matter, you'll find out) it would be weirder NOT to ask.

[Inflikted]

So, forget the old girl. Do that best by looking at new ones.

 

Easier said than done (she was one heck of a girl). @_@ See, I have a bit of a problem. Long before I even met either of the girls that I've liked in the past, I've always had a habit of looking for reasons not to "like" a particular girl. Most of the time, it's pretty petty stuff, really, and I can usually find at least one little turn off within the first few minutes of meeting and knowing a girl.

 

I tried to apply that same mindset to the two girls I have liked in the past, and I just couldn't find anything that bothered me enough to be a turn off, hence why I liked them both so much, and felt such a strong sense of attachment.

 

Heck, I've been looking for turn offs in this girl at school, and as I've noted, I've already found a few. So, on one hand, I've already made up my mind that I don't want to date her, but on the other hand, my expectations are probably way too high, and I need to bring them down, or else I'm never going to date. It's not every day that I meet a girl who gives me attention, so even though I already see some petty little turn offs, part of me wants to just date her and see how it plays out in the future.

 

What you need is to learn here is to not fear rejection, and to learn that you need to make it something not to fear, which means getting rejected in straightforward, non-horrific ways.

 

I'm not so sure "fear of rejection" is a huge factor, really (heck, the last girl I liked, she rejected me in the best way possible, and I still carried on for the last couple years over not getting to be with her). The rejection isn't the part that scares me, it's more the fact that once it happens, I don't know how to behave properly towards that person in the future. I ending up acting very awkward, and depending on how sad I am (like with the last girl, due to how much I liked her), I get a bit mopey and depressed as well. I guess the fact that I'm not AS attached to this girl from school might work in my favor slightly, but I feel like I'd still end up being a very awkward person after the fact.

 

is she single, you didn't say?

 

From what I can tell, yes, but then again, I really don't know, and that's one reason I'm iffy about asking girls out is because I don't want to go through the unpleasantness of finding out I asked out someone who's already seeing someone. To me, that's even more awkward than a straightforward rejection, and really, there's not a whole lot of ways to find out if someone is seeing someone else already; even slyly hinting at the subject to the person is question usually reveals what the person doing the hinting is getting at.

[shet]

OK, well, then you still need to experience more attempts/rejections. Meet more women. You get too focused and attached, too intermittently, for too long, on one woman. You need to up the rate. Sounds like these dumb standards of yours are part of that problem. You've got 2 months of college left. I'd get to it.

 

If you're easygoing about the asking, they can only be easygoing about the accepting/rejecting. There's nothing to be awkward about after. You're a single guy, these aren't colleagues or close friends, you don't somehow owe them not to ask them out. If anything you owe yourself to do it. What exactly is wrong with them knowing you're interested? And what's wrong with someone already seeing someone knowing it? You don't need to hire a goddamn PI to find out if someone's single, you ask them out and see what they say. The less creepy you are about it, the easier it is and the cleaner it goes off.

[Inflikted]

What exactly is wrong with them knowing you're interested?

 

I dunno, I feel like I've sort of been conditioned into thinking that I'm the type of guy that a girl would feel insulted by to know that he's into her, you know? I've had some... very unpleasant experiences with girls, in the past.

 

Anyway, just to clarify a little bit, when I purposely look for turn offs in the women I come into contact with, it's more a matter of compatibility; as in, I'll find at least one thing that would just pick away at the back of my mind if I were to date a particular girl. And I just don't want to be with someone, where I'm spending the entire time thinking about these little qualities or characteristics that bug me.

 

Like I said, I WANT to date, and deep down, I'm desperately lonely, but every time I meet a new girl, I instantly find at least one thing that makes me feel incompatible with them in that way.

[kodakgirl]

I think you need to address the fact that you are looking for turn-offs right off the bat. Sure, there are a lot of people out there we just aren't compatible with, but there's a difference between deep personality rifts and someone who likes rock music while you prefer folk. Address the things you consider "turn-offs"-- what are the ones that REALLY matter? When you genuinely like someone, a lot of things don't. In principle I feel I wouldn't want to date a guy who's really into hockey and doesn't like spicy food; this summer I was reallllllllly falling in love with a guy who adored hockey and disliked anything spicy. All the things I liked about him just washed away those little things until I found them to be sort of cute quirks. However, there are also big incompatibilities I'd never overlook--a fellow could be 99.999% exactly what I'd dreamed off, but if he smoked, nope, never.

 

I suspect some of this tendency, however, isn't just pickiness. It's fear. It's a justification for keeping everyone at arm's length. Same thing for still being hung up on someone from 2 years ago. You're sabotaging yourself because deep down you're scared to take a chance, to make yourself vulnerable, maybe even scared of what will happen if things go right. I feel you should look at this within yourself too. Yes, it's scary. Heartbreak is a possible--likely--result of romance. But if you want it you've got to be able to deal with that fear.

 

I also notice you saying a lot of things like "I can't do this." Stop that. Maybe you need to work on your conversational and flirting skills. God knows I do. But replace that "I can't" with "I'm working on." Say it even to yourself. And follow through. The great thing about social skills is they can be worked on. You can get lots of practice every day without going out of your way. And all this "I don't know how..."-- well, LEARN! Think about where you'd take a girl on a date. Look for ideas. Think about how you'd like to feel and how you'd like her to feel.

 

If you do really want to find someone, there is a lot you can do. But you have to be DOING. If you have built-in anxieties and insecurities, well guess what? So does everyone. We don't have a choice about that. But we do have a choice in how we address them, whether we actively work to overcome them, no matter how painfully slow the process, or if we just say "well I'm screwed" and give up. You always have the choice to give up--overtly or implicitly--, but it is always a choice, and you don't get to complain about the consequences if that's what you're choosing.

[shet]

"Compatibility" is a concept that's been vastly overplayed in the OLD age. The truth is the only thing that matters is if 2 people can get along. Very few things get in the way of that if there's mutual interest and desire to do so, things that come down to conflicting lifestyles on basic levels. So things like, if you're fervently anti-drugs and they use drugs. Or if you're an alcoholic and they're teetotal. They spend all their money, you save it. They like nights in, you're a hard partier. These will lead to hard conflict, quickly and often.

 

It does not mean, they like rock and you like EDM. They have 5 pairs of shoes and you have 50. They wear frilly dresses and you wear black everything. They like crime dramas, you like scifi. They don't like your videogames. You don't like their obsessive cleanliness. You hate each others friends. Et cetera. These things don't lead to hard conflict. Whatever issues arise can be compromised upon. You can be as different as chalk and cheese in all your personal tastes and work together terrifically provided the very basics are copacetic.

 

And besides which, all of this is what you discover BY dating someone. That's the point of it. You don't write someone off before you even know who they are. You date, and do things, and talk, and maybe spend some time round each others house, and THEN you develop an idea whether you can get along or not.

 

I've dated girls who've dropped the worst **** on me, before I got committed. Like, being a hooker; into public bondage at fetish clubs; coke fiend; house with a bathroom straight out of Trainspotting. Those are real incompatibilities, for me. I found them out WHILE dating. Couldn't possibly have known before then. Dating is giving people rope to see if they hang themselves.

[kodakgirl]

 

And besides which, all of this is what you discover BY dating someone. That's the point of it. You don't write someone off before you even know who they are. You date, and do things, and talk, and maybe spend some time round each others house, and THEN you develop an idea whether you can get along or not.

 

Exactly. A lot of things you think might irritate you-- or even that irritate you in other people-- often don't when you get to like someone. You're just flat-out assuming they're going to. Don't assume this. Give it a shot and see if they do. You say you liked these two girls because you didn't find any turn-offs--- I think so, you didn't see any turn-offs BECAUSE you liked them. Open yourself up to liking more people. Know what you really can't live with but be open to learning what you really can live with-- you'll be surprised.

[preraph]

Well, you said she's friendly to lots of guys, so she's just a friendly girl. Still, that doesn't mean she doesn't like you. If she's that social, maybe she'd be open to a date. I wouldn't step out that far yet though. Since she always talks to you, I would just take it one step further and ask her a couple more personal questions instead of investigating her on the internet! Next time you talk, ask her questions about herself. Where are you from? Oh, do you go home on weekends? No? I'm stuck here sometimes on weekends, too. If you ever want to hang out, you know where to find me. Then if she makes a point of seeing you, you can start finding out if she likes to date around or has a boyfriend or just likes to hang out or what.

[Inflikted]

"Compatibility" is a concept that's been vastly overplayed in the OLD age. The truth is the only thing that matters is if 2 people can get along. Very few things get in the way of that if there's mutual interest and desire to do so, things that come down to conflicting lifestyles on basic levels.

 

Exactly. A lot of things you think might irritate you-- or even that irritate you in other people-- often don't when you get to like someone. You're just flat-out assuming they're going to. Don't assume this. Give it a shot and see if they do. You say you liked these two girls because you didn't find any turn-offs--- I think so, you didn't see any turn-offs BECAUSE you liked them. Open yourself up to liking more people. Know what you really can't live with but be open to learning what you really can live with-- you'll be surprised.

 

See, what I'm basically getting at, though, is that when I find qualities in a person that "irk" me, I have a hard time not thinking about them when I'm around that person. It's a passive subconscious thing; it's not like I actively hate or avoid anyone. I can "tolerate" people, for the most part, but if I'm going to have a more intimate relationship with someone, I don't want that person to be someone I'm just "tolerating" as well, you know? I'd hate to date a girl who might be nice and all, but at the same time, every time we're together, I'm constantly thinking in the back of my mind "I really don't like that she does/ doesn't do this..." or "It bothers me that she does/ doesn't do this...".

 

I'm not expecting anyone to ever be "perfect" or anything like that, but if I'm going to be with someone, I want them to be someone that I can appreciate, flaws and quirks and all, without constantly feeling bothered in the back of my mind by certain little qualities they may or may not have.

 

Well, you said she's friendly to lots of guys, so she's just a friendly girl. Still, that doesn't mean she doesn't like you. If she's that social, maybe she'd be open to a date. I wouldn't step out that far yet though. Since she always talks to you, I would just take it one step further and ask her a couple more personal questions instead of investigating her on the internet! Next time you talk, ask her questions about herself. Where are you from? Oh, do you go home on weekends? No? I'm stuck here sometimes on weekends, too. If you ever want to hang out, you know where to find me. Then if she makes a point of seeing you, you can start finding out if she likes to date around or has a boyfriend or just likes to hang out or what.

 

Well, one thing that kind of strikes me is that, while she seems pretty friendly with guys (and everyone in general), I feel like a lot of the times I see that, it's the guys initiating the contact with her, and her being friendly with them. Whereas, with me, it seems like she's usually the one initiating contact with me. She'll say hi to me or initiate a conversation with me. But, I dunno, perhaps that's just my imagination seeing something in a prettier light than it really is.

 

I really hate how bad I am at conversing (and especially working up to "flirting"). And it's not for lack of trying; I've been trying to get better at it for years. It just... always comes out awkward and forced sounding when I try to make conversation, and I feel like I'm never "quick on my feet" to come up with follow up questions or comments to keep a good flow going.

[kodakgirl]

It's a passive subconscious thing

 

Yes, it is. Does that mean you can't address it? No. It's entirely possible to work on our thought patterns. But considering you didn't even acknowledge the fact that half my post was about changing subconscious thought patterns, not even to say "thank you, I will consider that," I don't see any point in spending any more of my time trying to be all encouraging. Some people (like myself) are willing to recognize that they self-sabotage and willing to work really hard to address it, no matter how hard it is, because they want feel happier and freer and feel real connections with people. Some people prefer to just throw up their hands and say "that's how I am" and have pity parties. It's always a choice.

[Inflikted]

Yes, it is. Does that mean you can't address it? No. It's entirely possible to work on our thought patterns. But considering you didn't even acknowledge the fact that half my post was about changing subconscious thought patterns, not even to say "thank you, I will consider that," I don't see any point in spending any more of my time trying to be all encouraging. Some people (like myself) are willing to recognize that they self-sabotage and willing to work really hard to address it, no matter how hard it is, because they want feel happier and freer and feel real connections with people. Some people prefer to just throw up their hands and say "that's how I am" and have pity parties. It's always a choice.

 

I apologize, I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. It's just, I've spent the last several years trying to change the way I think, and my thought patterns, and all that, and I feel like I've made no progress at all. So, I'm sort of at a point where I'm just very frustrated, with myself, with everything. I don't mean to act like I'm just having a pity party, but I have a hard time having faith in myself anymore to do anything.