my heart is absolutely breaking

[hustava]

I don't know what I want anymore! I've been with my bf for 3 years but we just moved in together 6 months ago. He is 28 and I am 26. All I want in life is to spend as much time with him as possible. I didn't want to live with anyone else. My mom is Catholic and it damn near broke her heart. To her, everything would be ok ONLY if we got married.

 

At the time of the moving, I didn't care about marriage, I just wanted to be with him. He has said that he DOES wants to marry me many times. Yet he won't give me a time line and I know he is thinking later rather than sooner. He says I deserve a big huge ring and I deserve him to be more financially stable before we tie the knot. He honestly really believes that I deserve the best. I posted this on another bored and all the women say that is not true, and if he really loved me that he would have asked already. I need to give him a strict time line, etc.

 

6 months ago I didn't even care about marriage this much. But friends have been giving me pressure (ie-do you think you'll get a ring for Christmas- Maybe he will surprise you, etc.), my moms words are getting to me, and I've started looking at all this terrible stuff online. Why am I letting myself doubt his love? I even broke down a few weeks ago and told him I thought I could find someone who loved me more. Someone else would have proposed marriage to me even if they were poor. He got so upset he punched a hole in the wall! He was so so so upset that I didn't understand I was the most important thing on earth to him. (he aint Mr. Romantic, but he shows his love in other ways).

 

I've brought it up a couple times since and each time he just gets mad and clams up. He says I make him feel absolutely horrible that he can't afford it right now. He genuinely seems to feel horrible, but should I tell him a real man would just get me a 100 dollar ring from WalMart? Even if that makes him feel like less of a man or like I am not getting what I deserve?

 

I don't know where else to turn, my mother will just say I told you so, and my friends will just tell me to hang in there because he is a great guy who loves me and I love him. He really is wonderful.

[hustava]

I know this is a long post for such a newbie, I really should go try to see a therapist or someone else who is objective. But when I have seen them in the past, they only seem to mirror back what I say to them.

[Vesaras]

You know, he could just genuinely want you to have the best proposal/wedding as possible. If that's the train of thought he has, then it's up to you. If you really don't care about the ring or anything, sit him down and talk to him. Tell him a marriage and a ring is only a formal declaration, and that all you need is him to be standing at the end of the aisle. Ok, a bit cheesey, but something along those lines. Good luck.

[hustava]

You know, he could just genuinely want you to have the best proposal/wedding as possible. If that's the train of thought he has, then it's up to you. If you really don't care about the ring or anything, sit him down and talk to him. Tell him a marriage and a ring is only a formal declaration, and that all you need is him to be standing at the end of the aisle. Ok, a bit cheesey, but something along those lines. Good luck.

 

That is exactly how I feel. I've told him that many times but he either doesn't believe I really want that --or he just doesn't want it that way. Another killer is that I resented every single gift that he bought his family members for Christmas. He must have spent at least $1000 on them. He spent a ton of money on me too. But I was envious that he bought his parents at least 7 fairly expensive gifts a peice. He could not understand why I was being so selfish and pouty while he bought 100 dollar coffee pot for his dad. It's not that I didn't want his dad to have a nice gift, I just knew that money was not being saved for a ring at all. I feel like such an awful person for being a brat.

[norajane]

You might want to tell him that while he's waiting to buy you the perfect ring and and be perfectly financially stable, he's hurting you and your relationship, and could lose the woman for whom he wants all that perfection.

 

However, if the only reason you've started freaking out about this is because of what your mother and your friends are saying, and what people online are saying, then maybe you need to take a deep breath and table the issue for a while.

 

You said he's wonderful, and that you weren't even thinking about it when you moved in with him. So enjoy your relationship and if it starts to bother YOU - not your friends and family, but YOU - then you can do something about it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't live with someone I'm not married to. I'm not suggesting that's the right thing for everyone, but you might want to set a timeline in YOUR head as to when you absolutely couldn't stand to not be engaged and still living with him. Then, if you see that nothing is changing as you get closer to your timeline, talk to him again and tell him you've been giving it some thought and you really love him and want to be wtih him and want to create a future together, but you really aren't comfortable anymore living with him when he does not want to start planning for a future together, and that you're thinking you need to move out in June (or whatever month you set for yourself). That if he can't even discuss when you two might get married, that it's time for you to move out. You can continue to date, but your living arrangement is making it hard for you not to plan your life as though you will be married, and he has shown no sign of actually making that happen, so you're not on the same page in your relationship anymore.

 

No ultimatum, nothing. Just do it, when it's truly unbearable to you.

 

If he freaks and asks WTF you're going on about, tell him that people who plan to get married and are merely concerned about finances actually make a budget. They save for the ring, they save for the wedding, they save for the honeymoon, and you put a budget together for how much you need to cover your expenses and lifestyle as a married couple. They have an actual PLAN, not some amorphous SOME DAY. And that if money is the only thing holding him back, really the only thing, then you would like him to sit down with you and figure out how much money you both really need and how you plan to get there.

 

You two live together now, and you're getting along just fine financially, right? So how much does he think he needs in order to get married? What does he need to get financially comfortable? Is it just the ring? Or is he deep in debt?

Edited December 27, 2007 by norajane

[hustava]

You might want to tell him that while he's waiting to buy you the perfect ring and and be perfectly financially stable, he's hurting you and your relationship, and could lose the woman for whom he wants all that perfection.

 

However, if the only reason you've started freaking out about this is because of what your mother and your friends are saying, and what people online are saying, then maybe you need to take a deep breath and table the issue for a while.

 

You said he's wonderful, and that you weren't even thinking about it when you moved in with him. So enjoy your relationship and if it starts to bother YOU - not your friends and family, but YOU - then you can do something about it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't live with someone I'm not married to. I'm not suggesting that's the right thing for everyone, but you might want to set a timeline in YOUR head as to when you absolutely couldn't stand to not be engaged and still living with him. Then, if you see that nothing is changing as you get closer to your timeline, talk to him again and tell him you've been giving it some thought and you really love him and want to be wtih him and want to create a future together, but you really aren't comfortable anymore living with him when he does not want to start planning for a future together, and that you're thinking you need to move out in June (or whatever month you set for yourself). That if he can't even discuss when you two might get married, that it's time for you to move out. You can continue to date, but your living arrangement is making it hard for you not to plan your life as though you will be married, and he has shown no sign of actually making that happen, so you're not on the same page in your relationship anymore.

 

No ultimatum, nothing. Just do it, when it's truly unbearable to you.

 

If he freaks and asks WTF you're going on about, tell him that people who plan to get married and are merely concerned about finances actually make a budget. They save for the ring, they save for the wedding, they save for the honeymoon, and you put a budget together for how much you need to cover your expenses and lifestyle as a married couple. They have an actual PLAN, not some amorphous SOME DAY. And that if money is the only thing holding him back, really the only thing, then you would like him to sit down with you and figure out how much money you both really need and how you plan to get there.

 

You two live together now, and you're getting along just fine financially, right? So how much does he think he needs in order to get married? What does he need to get financially comfortable? Is it just the ring? Or is he deep in debt?

 

Thank you for such a rational reply. I make decent money, and so does he. We just got an apartment together 6 months ago. It's very hard to get a house in Massachusetts.

 

He has a couple student loans and one high interest credit bill for like $2,000 that won't go away. It does not seem like unmanagable debt. I've tried to get him to let me help with the finances but he gets painfully defensive about it.

 

I do know that after living with his parents until age 28, he has not one dime in a savings account. When I first met him, he claimed he only lived there to save money for his own house. But nothing got saved. At first I kind of suspected him of doing drugs again. Not good on my part. After thinking about it, I honestly think he is not super saavy about money (he put zero dollars down on his truck, so his payments are through the roof) and he has a HUGE mental block against moving forward.

[sunshinegirl]

I do know that after living with his parents until age 28, he has not one dime in a savings account. When I first met him, he claimed he only lived there to save money for his own house. But nothing got saved. At first I kind of suspected him of doing drugs again. Not good on my part. After thinking about it, I honestly think he is not super saavy about money (he put zero dollars down on his truck, so his payments are through the roof) and he has a HUGE mental block against moving forward.

 

Red flag alert!

 

If he's defensive about talking about money, and he has lousy financial habits (where does his money go every month if he makes 'decent' money like you do?) this is a bad sign. I'm not married but I hear financial issues are the #1 or #2 problem in marriage.

 

And he's a former drug user? When was this? What drugs? What confidence do you have that that is over and done with, never to be an issue again in your relationship?

[hustava]

Red flag alert!

 

If he's defensive about talking about money, and he has lousy financial habits (where does his money go every month if he makes 'decent' money like you do?) this is a bad sign. I'm not married but I hear financial issues are the #1 or #2 problem in marriage.

 

And he's a former drug user? When was this? What drugs? What confidence do you have that that is over and done with, never to be an issue again in your relationship?

 

That stuff pretty much got resolved and discussed the first year of dating. Of course it freaked me out for a while.

 

Mom seems to think people never change, and my life would be so much easier if I just picked some nice man with perfect finances, no bad past, and who wanted to marry me after a year. I'm sure that is true. But this is what I chose. We aren't party people. Me and him are homebodies, we like to stay in and watch movies and cook and laugh.

 

When it gets right down to it, my friends with "perfect on paper" men all seem to have much worse under-the-surface-problems than I have. i.e. cheating, no steady job, unable to have children. Am I taking a bigger risk than I should? I'm sure many would say yes, but I don't think I am. Perhaps any other problems are unpredictable, while I should predict having a problem with him.

[hustava]

Red flag alert!

 

If he's defensive about talking about money, and he has lousy financial habits (where does his money go every month if he makes 'decent' money like you do?) this is a bad sign. I'm not married but I hear financial issues are the #1 or #2 problem in marriage.

 

And he's a former drug user? When was this? What drugs? What confidence do you have that that is over and done with, never to be an issue again in your relationship?

 

That stuff pretty much got resolved and discussed the first year of dating. Of course it freaked me out for a while.

 

Mom seems to think people never change, and my life would be so much easier if I just picked some nice man with perfect finances, no bad past, and who wanted to marry me after a year. I'm sure that is true. But this is what I chose. We aren't party people. Me and him are homebodies, we like to stay in and watch movies and cook and laugh.

 

When it gets right down to it, my friends with "perfect on paper" men all seem to have much worse under-the-surface-problems than I have. i.e. cheating, no steady job, unable to have children. Am I taking a bigger risk than I should? I'm sure many would say yes, but I don't think I am. Perhaps any other problems are unpredictable, while I should predict having a problem with him. I can understand why people would say that. I just have faith in him. Stupid of me or not.

[norajane]

Thank you for such a rational reply. I make decent money, and so does he. We just got an apartment together 6 months ago. It's very hard to get a house in Massachusetts.

 

He has a couple student loans and one high interest credit bill for like $2,000 that won't go away. It does not seem like unmanagable debt. I've tried to get him to let me help with the finances but he gets painfully defensive about it.

 

I do know that after living with his parents until age 28, he has not one dime in a savings account. When I first met him, he claimed he only lived there to save money for his own house. But nothing got saved. At first I kind of suspected him of doing drugs again. Not good on my part. After thinking about it, I honestly think he is not super saavy about money (he put zero dollars down on his truck, so his payments are through the roof) and he has a HUGE mental block against moving forward.

 

That is all going to be a problem, because he will not be able to get any closer to being financially stable and secure if he cannot save, if he cannot manage his money well. The biggest problem I see is that he gets too defensive to even allow you to help him with a budget! What happens if you do get married and your finances become joined and he still won't discuss anything with you? Then he jeopardizes your credit rating as well as his, and will continue to make financial decisions on his own that also affect you without giving you any opportunity to discuss it.

 

His financial decisions NOW are affecting you negatively - they are putting off the time you can even consider marriage. It only gets worse from here unless he gets more savvy about it.

 

Have you considered getting a money management software program, and then doing your own budget? You could then show it to him as in, look, isn't it cool how I can put in all my income and my expenses and then the program figures out how much I need to save each month and how much debt to pay off...! And then suggest he give it a try with his finances and see if he takes the initiative one day to make his own budget.

 

And then you could run a program that shows why he's never able to pay off that $2000 because of the high interest rate. Maybe you could find a low interest credit card and transfer any balances you have to it, and then tell him about the card and show him how much sooner he'd be able to pay off the card if he transferred his own balances and didn't have such a high interest rate.

 

He obviously never learned any of this. Maybe start buying some money management magazines or books and leave them lying around - he might pick up one of them and start learning...

[PerfectLee]

Hustava, I can tell from your post that you feel awful for even bringing it up, especially because you know deep down he loves you more than anything. As girls, we like the physicality of it all though. We want the cuddling, the kisses, the "I love you's" and.....the ring!

 

My story is somewhat similiar to you except I'm gay, me & my GF have been together for 3 yrs also, both our families are Catholic. Don't ask how we've made it through! Catholic, gay, interracial....don't get me started. For 2 yrs my GF talked non stop about how she doesn't believe in marriage, she's afraid of divorce etc... Of course, being the "girly" one in the relationship, I said to myself "Oh no....I am so not gonna stick this out if she thinks I'm going to waste my time, blah blah blah" except...I never left her & I DID stick it out. I spoke of marriage from time to time, she mentioned she felt a little pressure from me & family & friends. So I quit it. I let her keep talking her bullsh*t. Until one day, 3 months ago, she popped out a ring and asked me to marry her on a romantic beach. Apparently she's been planning it since day 1. She tested me, fought with me, wondered if I was going to stick it out with her or leave her.

 

She said "I knew I wanted to marry you the day I met you. I'm happy that you respected me enough to back off about the marriage thing. I was under enough pressure from my family about money. As you know, I had a lot of debt so my motivation to get out of debt was to buy you a classy engagement ring someday soon."

 

My point to the story, I understand you want something physical, that you want him to have more control over his money, to know that a future for you two is "in the works" but you've got to be patient and hopefully one day he'll show you how much he appreciated it.

 

I even broke down a few weeks ago and told him I thought I could find someone who loved me more. Someone else would have proposed marriage to me even if they were poor.

 

Ouch, my dear, Ouch!

[HokeyReligions]

It doesn't sound as though either of you are ready to get married yet. Instead of demanding a time frame, how about a discussion on his priorities and yours. You need to have many discussions before you get married so that you are prepared. If you don't talk about the tough stuff how are you going to understand and respect each other or be able to find the compromises that are necessary in a marriage? You might surprise yourself and decide you don't want to get married just yet either. Don't buckle under the pressure from others; but do consider premarital counseling. Someone to help you feel less overwhelmed and to help you pinpoint your priorities and guide you on how to make your choices with respect to the other person.

 

It sounds like he has a vague idea of what is necessary for him to make that choice - but a fist thru the wall is not communication. Your asking him so much and telling him what others have said is not communication either. Premarital counseling can help you build those vital communication skills.

[hustava]

Hustava, I can tell from your post that you feel awful for even bringing it up, especially because you know deep down he loves you more than anything. As girls, we like the physicality of it all though. We want the cuddling, the kisses, the "I love you's" and.....the ring!

 

My story is somewhat similiar to you except I'm gay, me & my GF have been together for 3 yrs also, both our families are Catholic. Don't ask how we've made it through! Catholic, gay, interracial....don't get me started. For 2 yrs my GF talked non stop about how she doesn't believe in marriage, she's afraid of divorce etc... Of course, being the "girly" one in the relationship, I said to myself "Oh no....I am so not gonna stick this out if she thinks I'm going to waste my time, blah blah blah" except...I never left her & I DID stick it out. I spoke of marriage from time to time, she mentioned she felt a little pressure from me & family & friends. So I quit it. I let her keep talking her bullsh*t. Until one day, 3 months ago, she popped out a ring and asked me to marry her on a romantic beach. Apparently she's been planning it since day 1. She tested me, fought with me, wondered if I was going to stick it out with her or leave her.

 

She said "I knew I wanted to marry you the day I met you. I'm happy that you respected me enough to back off about the marriage thing. I was under enough pressure from my family about money. As you know, I had a lot of debt so my motivation to get out of debt was to buy you a classy engagement ring someday soon."

 

My point to the story, I understand you want something physical, that you want him to have more control over his money, to know that a future for you two is "in the works" but you've got to be patient and hopefully one day he'll show you how much he appreciated it.

 

 

 

Ouch, my dear, Ouch!

 

As soon as I said it, I knew it was wrong. I've had to explain to my bf that us girls have been conditioned since birth to believe we are going to meet some prince (or princess ) charming and it'll be all roses and riches and sunshine and jewelry. That is what the movies tell us, that is what the story books tell us. Then we feel bad about ourselves when some women appear to get that instead of us. Even though we don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

 

I'm glad things worked out for you and your GF. We are Catholic too, and I pretty much have guilt over every single thing in my life. My bf's parents are a lot less militant than mine (even though they are 10 years older). My mother nearly DIED when I told her we were moving in together. She is a nice person, but very naive. She claims that everyone who lives together before marriage gets divorced and they have bad morals. It's "playing house with no real commitment". She has even made comments about how technically I am still single and "someone better could come sweep me off my feet"! I'm sure, to her, better means someone who loves church and wants to marry me right away.

 

The truth is that she doens't have many friends, and all her family members are hard core catholics who don't believe in divorce anyway.

 

My mom's sister married a complete womanizer and she will never divorce him, even though she should. My mom and dad said that because he had been married once before, we all should have known to expect this (wtf?). Since when does divorce = womanizer? Nobody had any complaints when she married him because he was a big military man who was going to take care of her. He bought her a huge diamond. She'd never have to work a day in her life.

 

And yet my parents would condone her relationship more than mine simply because we are not married yet.