When two of your former flames start dating each other...

[Standard-Fare]

Background first: I'm female, early 30s, bisexual.

 

A couple of years ago I had a lesbian fling with a friend I'll call Jen. It was fairly innocent, but exciting ... and confusing. It was a secret thing, never full-fledged dating and never really "romantic."

 

Jen (who defines herself as straight) ultimately reacted to the confusion by quietly fading out on me. It was vaguely hurtful but I moved on. Recently we've only seen each other within groups, where we've been friendly.

 

After that went down, I developed a crush on a guy I'll call Pete. I played the pursuer, we went out on a couple dates, had sex once. But it never blossomed into a relationship, to my disappointment. I came to accept that he wasn't that into me.

 

I know both Jen and Pete through the same social circle, and though my relationship with Jen was secret, the thing with me and Pete was public knowledge.

 

Well, lo and behold, I learned recently that Jen and Pete have started dating. And I'm having a bad reaction. There's a confusion of emotions... I still have mildly hurt feelings from both of these past experiences, and irrationally I feel "betrayed," especially by Jen.

 

But the salt in the wound is that their relationship cuts me off from my major social group. Jen's been spending more time in this social scene she used to only dip into occasionally – she's in effect "replacing" me. And as a couple they're hanging out constantly with this other married couple I'm close to. It's becoming a foursome that does date nights and even plans trips together – obviously excluding me.

 

I don't know what, if anything, I can do to make this go down easier, but I'm simmering with resentment and insecurity. Is my only option to detach myself from this social scene and process the hurt on my own? I'm finding that very lonely and painful, yet it also seems impossible to pretend everything's cool.

[preraph]

Well, that does suck. I had an old crowd that things were always very incestuous like that and had to find my own way of coping with it, and usually I did it by doubling down with my Queen Bee behavior and taking back the venue, so to speak. Like they may still be with each other, but they'd find me hard to want to ignore because I still had sway and got enough attention from others. So it's all up to your personality, but my impulse was not to cede territory but to make them all squirm because I was making myself a big presence. I would of course take fortification. Like I had a couple of girls who'd go with me places kind of like an entourage, and I also had some younger guys who were always happy to get a call from me to go see a gig and be on my arm, with the understanding that's all it was.

 

So I say get your ducks in a row and make a grand appearance. But again, it depends what your strengths are how you use them. I wouldn't give them my crowd. I'd try to outshine them.

[Standard-Fare]

Well, that does suck. I had an old crowd that things were always very incestuous like that and had to find my own way of coping with it, and usually I did it by doubling down with my Queen Bee behavior and taking back the venue, so to speak. Like they may still be with each other, but they'd find me hard to want to ignore because I still had sway and got enough attention from others. So it's all up to your personality, but my impulse was not to cede territory but to make them all squirm because I was making myself a big presence. I would of course take fortification. Like I had a couple of girls who'd go with me places kind of like an entourage, and I also had some younger guys who were always happy to get a call from me to go see a gig and be on my arm, with the understanding that's all it was.

 

So I say get your ducks in a row and make a grand appearance. But again, it depends what your strengths are how you use them. I wouldn't give them my crowd. I'd try to outshine them.

 

Even though that's definitely not my personality, I can take something away from that advice - like, be the bigger and better person.

 

I don't know if I'm quite there yet. I do think I have to step away from this for a while to let some of the negative emotions fade.

 

I'm realizing I have a fair amount of bitterness toward "Jen" - the way she handled the situation with me in the past is having repercussions today. No one besides her is aware of the exact dynamics I'm dealing with here. I don't need apologies, I wouldn't expect her to stop doing what she's doing, but she's shown me no sensitivity or regard whatsoever.

[Tayla]

Sometimes when we address it from a stance of the other person, we can then re access a certain behavior. I had a scenario similar, a co worker decided to date my "ex", out came all the unresolved views. Finally I said, how would you want to be treated if you are dating this new guy and some ex of his had a bug up her orifice. In that moment , clarity came. I had a choice. I approached my ex, and we had a brief and brutally honest talk. I walked away from that hurt , then simmered down and understood ... he was happy and she was good for him. Sometimes by seeing it from another perspective does give a bit of determination to resolve with some level of understanding. I don't make issue anymore with them, Peace was made when acceptance that the past is the past.

Would that be a viable option to privately talk to one of them ? you may surprise yourself in how maturely you handle it?

 

As previously suggested, keep a friendly distance..

[Standard-Fare]

Sometimes when we address it from a stance of the other person, we can then re access a certain behavior. I had a scenario similar, a co worker decided to date my "ex", out came all the unresolved views. Finally I said, how would you want to be treated if you are dating this new guy and some ex of his had a bug up her orifice. In that moment , clarity came. I had a choice. I approached my ex, and we had a brief and brutally honest talk. I walked away from that hurt , then simmered down and understood ... he was happy and she was good for him. Sometimes by seeing it from another perspective does give a bit of determination to resolve with some level of understanding. I don't make issue anymore with them, Peace was made when acceptance that the past is the past.

Would that be a viable option to privately talk to one of them ? you may surprise yourself in how maturely you handle it?

 

As previously suggested, keep a friendly distance..

 

I think I do understand it from their perspectives. Neither of them owed me a damn thing. There was no betrayal or deceit with them starting to date and I don't begrudge them that.

 

What I seem to be needing, though, is just SOME kind of acknowledgment that this is a sh*tty and confusing situation for me.

 

The only one who could give me that is Jen. Because the intimate part of our own relationship was a secret, she's the only person who knows this situation involves TWO people I had former attachments with.

 

But of course, it's not like you can say to someone: "I need you to acknowledge my pain." That needs to come from the other direction. I just don't know how I'd handle a conversation with her.

 

Talking with Pete is a non-starter. I went no-contact with him for a couple months after our dating thing fizzled... there were no hard feelings but I wanted to get over it. After that I've seen him in social situations and we've been friendly. This is the first time I've seen him dating since me.

[preraph]

Even though that's definitely not my personality, I can take something away from that advice - like, be the bigger and better person.

 

I don't know if I'm quite there yet. I do think I have to step away from this for a while to let some of the negative emotions fade.

 

I'm realizing I have a fair amount of bitterness toward "Jen" - the way she handled the situation with me in the past is having repercussions today. No one besides her is aware of the exact dynamics I'm dealing with here. I don't need apologies, I wouldn't expect her to stop doing what she's doing, but she's shown me no sensitivity or regard whatsoever.

 

Well, if she does this with no consequences, she'll just keep doing it, but she probably will anyway, so I'd certainly give her a new "infrequent friend" status and never introduce her to anyone you like, that's for sure. Or him.

[preraph]

P.S. When my oldest friend decided to throw away 17 years of friendship to sleep with someone I was in love with, I guess I did something right because all my women friends and surprisingly all my male friends all took my side. After I found out, she then took my address book and contacted all my male friends under the auspices of being desperate to get back in my good graces. They all saw through it and a couple even called her a piece of crap, and they all came around to support me through it.

[angel.eyes]

Standard-Fare, recognize what is healthiest for YOU. That would be walking away at least temporarily and focusing on other friends and your other social circles for a while.

 

No one is deliberately trying to hurt you when they date others. But clearly you have unresolved hurt feelings with these two people, both of whom opted to stop seeing you romantically quite some time ago. It would be silly to expect a date to never date anyone else after he or she stopped dating you. Nonetheless, it stings. That's understandable.

 

You went NC with the guy to heal, right? This is no different in a way. It's a big world with lots of people. Focus on your other friends for now. That will bring you more peace than trying to turn the social circle involved into some sort of battlefield.

Edited April 27, 2016 by angel.eyes

[jen1447]

S-F, I don't think you're under any obligation to pretend about anything within your social circle (and in fact that wouldn't be too healthy), but on the other hand it might be a good idea to remove yourself from that environment, at least temporarily.

 

It's almost impossible to figure out what ppl are really thinking most times, but one thing that's pretty sure is when two ppl are into each other, they aren't thinking about much else. So I doubt Jen and Pete are really trying to gouge you (Jen explicitly I guess). I know that feeling of wanting a sort of acknowledgement from her, but again ppl - dumpers in particular - tend to dehumanize their exes (strange process but I think it's sort of a survival mechanism to rationalize their treatment of them - much easier to mistreat a lab rat than a human being), so you're probably squarely off in 2-dimensional person land in her mind and not affected by this like normal ppl would be.

 

If she actually is trying to hurt you by withholding acknowledgement and/or putting this in your face then she needs to get her ass kicked.

[Standard-Fare]

If she actually is trying to hurt you by withholding acknowledgement and/or putting this in your face then she needs to get her ass kicked.

 

Yeah, my mind can't help but go there a little. And I've even thought, does her going after Pete (I do happen to know she was the active pursuer) somehow RELATE to the confusing fling she and I had?

 

I acknowledge that's very narcissistic/paranoid thinking, but it's just such a damn coincidence that the one she goes after is the guy who I just tried with and failed. In a weird way, it almost feels like she's like: "Hey, here's extra proof I'm not actually into girls... let me best you in heterosexuality by getting the man you couldn't."

 

Lots of confusing dynamics here for sure. Agree that I gotta step back, which is hard, because this really is my main social scene and I'm quite lonely when removed from it.

[jen1447]

Yeah, my mind can't help but go there a little. And I've even thought, does her going after Pete (I do happen to know she was the active pursuer) somehow RELATE to the confusing fling she and I had?

 

I acknowledge that's very narcissistic/paranoid thinking, but it's just such a damn coincidence that the one she goes after is the guy who I just tried with and failed. In a weird way, it almost feels like she's like: "Hey, here's extra proof I'm not actually into girls... let me best you in heterosexuality by getting the man you couldn't."

 

Lots of confusing dynamics here for sure. Agree that I gotta step back, which is hard, because this really is my main social scene and I'm quite lonely when removed from it.

 

Couple things ....first, if she is trying to send you that message, it kinda disproves that message, see what I mean? If she's desperate to convince her girl ex that she wasn't into girls, she's probably into girls. If she was "meh" she wouldn't need to show anyone anything.* Second thing is on bisexuality - you know as well as I do that despite the fact we like men and women, the two types of relationships are still just fundamentally different, even tho they share a lot of qualities like the basis of regular old love. Loving a woman (and making love to one obvs) is just intrinsically different when framed in the context of relationships. What I'm getting at with that is that loving a guy doesn't really show or prove anything in terms of loving women bc they're diff things in the particulars, if not the basics.

 

*I always know a woman's 'ready' btw when they make a point of telling me they're not into women. So if Jen's trying to send that message she's doing a bad job ultimately.

[Standard-Fare]

Couple things ....first, if she is trying to send you that message, it kinda disproves that message, see what I mean? If she's desperate to convince her girl ex that she wasn't into girls, she's probably into girls. If she was "meh" she wouldn't need to show anyone anything.* Second thing is on bisexuality - you know as well as I do that despite the fact we like men and women, the two types of relationships are still just fundamentally different, even tho they share a lot of qualities like the basis of regular old love. Loving a woman (and making love to one obvs) is just intrinsically different when framed in the context of relationships. What I'm getting at with that is that loving a guy doesn't really show or prove anything in terms of loving women bc they're diff things in the particulars, if not the basics.

 

*I always know a woman's 'ready' btw when they make a point of telling me they're not into women. So if Jen's trying to send that message she's doing a bad job ultimately.

 

Totally agree with what you're saying up there. I probably will never be able to know if my suspicions are valid that this has anything to do with me, or whether I'm just being a paranoid narcissist. If it's the former, I guess that might reveal itself to me in other ways.

 

The whole thing with Jen was (and continues to be) a complete mind f*ck.

[jen1447]

Totally agree with what you're saying up there. I probably will never be able to know if my suspicions are valid that this has anything to do with me, or whether I'm just being a paranoid narcissist. If it's the former, I guess that might reveal itself to me in other ways.

 

The whole thing with Jen was (and continues to be) a complete mind f*ck.

 

Women can be intensely mystifying and intriguing for other (interested) women, so yeah, that whole effect is just magnified with them. It sounds more and more like that's what she wanted if it's having that effect on you. And some are just plain vain btw - they get off on getting inside other women's heads and planting a lot of questions in there before they unceremoniously get out.

 

You know the situation and I don't -would it be/look/feel inappropriate to just start a conversation w/her at some point and ask for some answers? I don't mean jaded ex style with accusations and rants and tears and shouting, just as a detached adult. That'd be sth a wingwoman could help with too.

[Standard-Fare]

Women can be intensely mystifying and intriguing for other (interested) women, so yeah, that whole effect is just magnified with them. It sounds more and more like that's what she wanted if it's having that effect on you. And some are just plain vain btw - they get off on getting inside other women's heads and planting a lot of questions in there before they unceremoniously get out.

 

You know the situation and I don't -would it be/look/feel inappropriate to just start a conversation w/her at some point and ask for some answers? I don't mean jaded ex style with accusations and rants and tears and shouting, just as a detached adult. That'd be sth a wingwoman could help with too.

 

No wingwoman can help because, again, the lesbian aspect of my relationship with Jen was a total secret and I know for sure she wouldn't want it getting out there.

 

I won't get too into the history, but we were once close friends. Yet there was always a sexual charge there. We held off on exploring that for quite a while, but then had a few months where we gave into it. We never stopped to talk about what it meant, and it was clear it would never be a "relationship." After a certain point she faded, became impossible to get in touch with, and I stopped trying. No confrontations, no emotions expressed. Now we only see each other in groups.

 

I do think at some point I might try to take Jen aside and clear the air. Like "So you're dating Pete. You realize that's awkward for me, right?" while at the same time expressing that I can live with it and wish them the best if it makes sense for them.

[jen1447]

^ That sounds like a good idea and approach.

 

That was no way for her to let it end btw, especially considering you were close friends before.

[Standard-Fare]

UPDATE:

 

This weekend I went to a social event that involved Jen and Pete. Since it was a total group of about 12+, I figured this was okay for me to go and focus on other people. I said polite hellos to both Jen and Pete but nothing more.

 

Unfortunately at one point I ended up sharing a couch with both of them. (Not my choice, Jen sat next to me and Pete followed.) They started being affectionate with each other - nothing big, just like, holding hands, stroking legs - but I found myself having a visceral bad reaction to that. I got myself off that couch pretty quickly.

 

I tried to avoid them for the rest of the party, but later Jen ended up sitting next to me yet again. This time we were on barstools. We were both a little buzzed. We engaged in minor, superficially friendly conversation, but Jen focused more on the person on her other side.

 

At one point I felt Jen press her leg against mine. When I didn't withdraw, she rested her hand on top of my thigh for a long time and later started to stroke my thigh with her fingers. All the while she's talking to the person next to her. Next she intertwined her foot around the bottom of my leg.

 

Later when she got up to leave the party, she gave me a kiss on my neck that seemed to linger too long. (And that's NOT her typical style of goodbye with me or anyone.)

 

So basically, my conclusion here is that Jen is batsh*t crazy and gets off on mind games.

[jen1447]

Ha ....yeah I thought it sounded like she was playing you just sitting next to you on the couch, nevermind the feelers later. (That makes it obvious tho.)

 

Do you think Pete is in on this or is he a hapless pawn? That may be more significant than you realize bc while if he's a co-conspirator it means they're probably just doing it for fun, but if he's a pawn it means Jen is actually deeply focused on you, to the point where she orchestrates elaborate schemes to 'send you messages' etc.

 

I guess the biggest question aside from that is, apart from the crazy vibe, how did her attention make you feel? I notice you didn't say you brushed her hands (or feet lol) away or anything like that and you took the kiss.

[Standard-Fare]

Ha ....yeah I thought it sounded like she was playing you just sitting next to you on the couch, nevermind the feelers later. (That makes it obvious tho.)

 

Do you think Pete is in on this or is he a hapless pawn? That may be more significant than you realize bc while if he's a co-conspirator it means they're probably just doing it for fun, but if he's a pawn it means Jen is actually deeply focused on you, to the point where she orchestrates elaborate schemes to 'send you messages' etc.

 

I guess the biggest question aside from that is, apart from the crazy vibe, how did her attention make you feel? I notice you didn't say you brushed her hands (or feet lol) away or anything like that and you took the kiss.

 

Apart from the crazy, I'm not going to lie, it was hot. We always had nuts chemistry, and it felt good to have that validated again for the first time in forever. However, I don't think it "means anything."

 

Pete, I believe is neither "in on it" nor a hapless pawn, apart from being oblivious to the background between Jen and me. I truly don't believe Jen is constructing this elaborate scheme to send me signals and get in my head. That's a side effect that she might be toying around with, but I do believe she's genuinely interested in Pete and that's her main motivation for going for him. She's crazy, a bit manipulative, but she's not straight-up malicious.

 

Her touchy-feeliness almost read like an apology -- if not for her affection with Pete in front of me (I'm sure she could see I was visibly pissed off) than for the whole situation. It almost felt like "Hey, hon, you know this chemistry is still here." But what does it matter if it's going nowhere? I don't plan to do a damn thing about this.

 

Women sure are fun to figure out!

[jen1447]

Oh my god ....tell me about it! Despite all our advantages, at least w/guys it's pretty simple to figure out what's going on behind their eyeballs.

 

One other thought - she may be double-dosing you too. Either deliberate mixed signals or innocent ones bc she's not entirely in control of her feelings.

 

If you were really badass you could turn the tables on her ya know. I mean two can play at that game. She thinks you're hung up on her, so play it out and give her some juice but then bring it back. -type stuff.