Why I belive best friends shouldn't date.

[The Blue Pill]

I highly suggest not starting a relationship with a close or best friend of the opposite sex. Let's walk through a few possible scenarios:

 

 

You have feelings for your friend. You confess your feelings to them and find out the feelings are not mutual. What happens?

A.) You embarrass yourself and now feel awkward around them since you were shot down. Result: Things change.

B.) You're fine with the rejection but they now know your true feelings and are awkward around you. Result: Things change.

C.) You both laugh it off and put it behind you and stay good friends. Result: Null.

D.) The other person has feelings for you in return, and you decide to date. Result: Things change.

 

These are the 4 most probable scenarios if you decide to take a chance with a friend. Lets explore scenario D a bit further:

 

D.) The other person has feelings for you in return, and you decide to date. What happens next?

`1.) The relationship doesn't work and you break up.

``a.) It was one sided, and feelings are hurt. Result: Things change.

``b.) It was mutual, but things become awkward. Result: Things change.

``c.) It was mutual and you go laugh it off and go back to being best friends. Result: Null.

`2.) The relationship has a fairytale ending, with a wedding and life happily ever after. Result: Happiness.

 

Now lets analyze the results of this storyline:

 

There are 5 paths which end in your relationship being altered by this decision, 2 paths that produce no change, and 1 path that leads to happiness.

 

5 change, 2 nothing, 1 good.

 

Now, ask yourself if it is worth it to you. I didn't go into any details as to what the "changes" could be. It could range from awkward silences or looks to losing friendship altogether, that varies by situation. Is a 1/16 chance at happiness worth the risk of damaging a friendship? (1/4 * 1/4 = 1/16, I think that's how probability is calculated?)

 

I fully believe that relationships ruin friendships. However, if you decide to go for it, I wish you the best of luck reaching the good ending.

[WTRanger]

True, but you can also use the exact same formula with a random stranger on the street that you are attracted to or even someone you meet on say a blind date.

 

If you start combing math and probability with love then you'll fail every time. This is life, not blackjack. You can't count cards here and beat the house.

 

By the way, you also forgot E): You hold your feelings in for your friend and THINGS CHANGE and you now have the "what if" parabola

 

I say if you have feelings for your friend, go for it. I'd rather fail 99% of the time than have 100% guilt of knowing I never even tried. Besides that 1% when it works, it's the best. I'm not going to disagree with you though that you really need to take stock of what is at stake when you do decide to tell a close friend your feelings, but you have to do it. You'll poison your friendship by holding it all in anyways, so why not let them out? In the end, after the dust settles you still more than likely keep your friend. It just takes time and that's a constant.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Personally, I agree with BP. If it was a casual acquaintance or a stranger, it wouldn't bother me in the least. If a relationship goes bad, we both cut bait and walk away. When relationships end, there's always the classical line "we can still be friends". This board has more than enough anecdotal evidence to show the improbability of that actually occurring. Between the odds of successful long-term dating and the odds of actually remaining friends after, it's a long-shot. I don't want to risk a friendship with someone I've known since day-care over what may be a few months, or even weeks, of dating.

 

Besides, the ones I'm close friends with, I'm too close to. They're like sisters to me. It just wouldn't feel right to date them.

[Trialbyfire]

I've never dated a close friend. It would be like dating one of my brothers.

 

It always makes me wonder how people can do this, except that maybe, those friends weren't close or there was always some form of denied or undenied underlying attraction. IF that's the case, particularly now being previously committed, I would immediately throw up a wall so they couldn't get any closer.

[Isolde]

How close do you mean by close?

 

Personally, it wouldn't bother me unless I had literally grown up with them (that would be like dating a brother). I'd give it a shot. On the other hand, I will say that I don't really see myself being a platonic friend with someone and forming a relationship without having liked them as more than friends from the start (if that makes sense).

 

I don't see the point of throwing up a wall if attraction is present on both sides. Sometimes, the line between friendship and the early stages of dating isn't all that marked, actually. Every situation is unique.

 

I will say the longer the time lapse between becoming good friends and starting to date, the riskier the situation.

[Trialbyfire]

A close friend is someone I can confide in with things of strong import to me. It's like handing over the keys to who I am. The wall is to prevent any form of manipulation, intentional or subconscious.

 

Romantic relationships have a different progression, where the keys to who I am aren't given 100% right from the start, unless the person is someone who's not a gamer. You'll find that people can be very different with friends, than romantic interests. The order in this scenario would be either romantic interest or not so close friend, to romantic interest, to relationship, to close friendship bonded by the romantic relationship.

 

I can't seem to articulate the difference. Hopefully someone else can.

[WTRanger]

I think we've defined two types of friends here though. There's a friend, say a poker or drinking buddy and then there's a close friend (the ones like a brother or a sister to you) the one you know you can call on when something horrible happens in your life and they rush over to comfort you.

 

Usually to get to the level of close friends there is some sort of unknown understanding that you two can love each other like mad, but it's that brother or sister type love. That, yes I agree, I cannot date my close female friends. But you really only have 2-3 types of friends of the opposite sex this close, the rest fall into the friends category. Right?

 

However to me, a friend as in someone I've maybe only known for less than 1-2 years then I think if one side developed feelings then at minimum the feelings should be known to both parties. Do we all agree on that? I feel that if you have feelings for a friend and that person starting bringing their new SO over, then you just eat yourself alive with guilt and jealousy. I think you carefully need to think about your feelings first, and see if they really are real or if they are just sexual tension/frustration. Usually consulting our good friend alcohol solves this problem.

 

I'd be interested in hearing other inputs. If you guys and gals think this should apply to all friends regardless or just close ones, etc. Because this board is also full of "I'm in love with a friend, what do I do?" posts as well, lord knows I've posted one. Did it work out? Not really and we're in that defining where do we go from here stage. But I'm glad I told her. It would have ate me alive to keep that inside me. It's the face-hugger from the Aliens movies all over again.

 

Probably too, the people that made it work from friends to a close relationship probably aren't posting all that much here, but the ones who failed are seeking advice here.

[Isolde]

TBF, I see exactly what you are saying. I think the scenario of "fairly good friend" can lead to a relationship, but there is still a difference between that and "close friend" in that you're not handing over the keys.

[lammie]

I agree with most what WTRanger said in his posts.

 

I think it comes down to the initial attraction when you first meet the "friend". You are or you don't. What do you in a case when a friendship started by he was interested in you first but because of circumstances you couldn't start a relationship so you stay "friends"?

 

I have a couple of close guy friends. One of them, i've known him for more than 12 years, one year, intended or not he started flirting heavily with me when we chat on msn. I was taken aback a bit not only he has gone out with my best friend, i was never attracted to him.

 

Guess most of the perfect scenario is that because you're good friends, you just fall in love, naturally. The thing that bugs me the most is the "what if's" and if we doesn't work out as a couple, then at least it satisfied my curiosity. I think we can be friends after that. It's the not knowing.... ARGHHH!!!

[lovestory5]

I think that friendship between two opposite sexes doesn't exist, because earlier or later you will date. : )

[somedude81]

I just recently had a close friendship absolutely fall apart because I had developed interests in her and yet she only saw me as one of her brothers. When I was spending more and more time with her my feelings were deepening and to her I became an important friend one that she could trust and confided in but had no sexual interest for at all.

 

One thing all women should be on the lookout for is single guys who want to become friends. There's a 99% chance that he wasn't looking for friendship when he started talking to you.

 

With the friend I just lost, I wanted to have sex with her long before we had our first lunch "date" together. As time went by we became very close friends, but I never stopped wanting to have sex with her and I eventually became infatuated with her. Now she hates my guts and we'll probably never spend anymore time together.

 

BTW I don't see any reason at all for NOT starting a relationship with a close friend. If we would have started dating then our friendship would have been saved. So in essence it wasn't the dating that ended the friendship. It was the one sided affection.

[burningashes]

I would never date a friend, honestly. I've seen the fallout after people dating their friends and things are never the same again. It's not pretty at all, and besides, they're called my friends for a reason- I have ZERO interest in them beyond friendship

 

But hey, if people want to take a chance, I'd say go for it, but be prepared for the end results if things don't work out.

[The Blue Pill]

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences.

[WTRanger]

The point in a friendship I'm referring to is usually at the very beginning when you first meet someone. You meet them, start to hang out more and more, find out you two have loads in common, can talk for hours, you are both single, and both of you agree that you find the other person's company amazing. You two have all of the qualifications for a new relationship. It's the gray area. You just met this person, yet it feels like it can go either way. You are pretty sure this person at least on some level has an attraction to you, whether or not they'll admit it, and you are definitely attracted to them. So in this case, the true friendship has not yet fully been built nor has it been stated that all you wanted is just to be friends. I feel that this is the critical time where if you have feelings or see the other person as something more, then this is the time to do it. Sometimes in these cases the relationship naturally progresses, but sometimes it might need a little motivation. At this point as well, since the friendship hasn't fully been established if all things do go horribly bad, then you are not trashing a long running friendship with someone. But I also feel that as long as you let things cool off, and talk to the other person as adults any friendship at any stage can survive the feelings A-bomb.

 

If you hold back at this point and let it go into the friends zone, and then you drop your feelings more than likely it will backfire on you. If you don't let your feelings or intentions be known, then you have the "what if?" The worst feeling in the world is to be deep in the friend zone and be completely head over heels in love with that friend.

 

However, again, you need to take stock in your feelings. Is it just raw sexual attraction or do you honestly see yourself in a relationship? As a guy, a randy one at that, pretty much every girl I meet I initially want to get in the sack. Even that strangely attractive check-out girl with the eye patch and the club foot. But that's just sexual attraction and nothing more. I think any relationship built solely on sexual attraction won't work either. Again, our good friend alcohol solves pretty much everything. Of course, then you open up the door number 3 which leads to the whole friends with benefits scenario. But at least you got to bang the person right?

[somedude81]

WTRanger,

 

Your first two paragraphs have described me perfectly. The only issue was that the gray area passed much more quickly then I had realized. The fact that she was in a relationship for the first 3 months that I knew her and that we were co-workers at the time, probably meant that there was no gray area at all. I also must have unknownly stated that I wanted more than friendship with her. Even though I really liked her for most of the time we were friends, she had no idea.

 

Dropping my feelings on her after 7 months of frienship was more than a backfire. After everything was done it was like a meator had crashed into earth with more force than 1,000 Hiroshima sized nuclear bombs.

 

I really wish things had been cleared up between us many months ago.

[vanilla87]

It can swing either way, the idea of being more then friends and just staying friends, but that all depends on how long you've know the other person and how close you are to this person. For me, I'm pretty much stuck between a rock and hard place, because I'm beyond the grey zone. My friend and I have already been sexual with one another and we've known each other for 9 years, been friends for about 7 of them. He was romantically attracted to me first for a long time before I became his friend, which was what started the whole process of getting to know him down the road at some point.

 

We've both admitted finally that there was some point in hs that we did like each other and that it didn't happen for the right reasons, mostly because we were two different people back then that if dated, we wouldn't have probably stayed friends afterwards and it would have sucked, because he is such a great friend.

 

But the problem is that after we both buried how we felt, something happened where we kissed in early 2008 and it lead to me having feelings for him again and he also was starting to feel something too. The problem is by the time something could happen, we both knew that there were other people involved and that we were both emotionally unstable for many reasons. He also feared he would hurt me like any of the guys I've dated before and has way too much respect for me, so we ended up not acting on our feeling, even though we ended up acting on our physical desire for one another.

 

So now, he is finally single for the last 3 months, after a horrible break up, and the thing is that my best friend that is also hi best friend, told me, she thinks that one day when he gets better and is more stable after everything, that she thinks whole heartedly that I would be good for him in the romantic sense, because I think she picked up on something from him.

 

But the only draw back is that, its mutual from both me and him, that we fear very much of screwing up and never being friends again if we were to date. Mostly because he is the only guy I've confined in about almost everything personal these days and vice versa with him. Its hard because its not infatuation or a crush, its real genuine feelings which is probably why I'm freaked out by the idea of it failing.

 

I wish anyone great luck of love on the love gods on their side if they end up being more then friends, I mean my best friend, is getting married to her best friend and he is a great guy, they have been together on and off since their junior year in hs and he is graduating college this may. They are just one of the few lucky people that ended up being best friends and getting their fairytale ending...

[carhill]

That philosophy kinda blows when one is wired to grow romance out of close friendships. Guess I need some rewiring from the Love Squad

[vanilla87]

That philosophy kinda blows when one is wired to grow romance out of close friendships. Guess I need some rewiring from the Love Squad

 

I think about 50-70% of the LS posters need some re-wiring especially the ones that can't make up their mind if they want to be with their best friend or not...

[somedude81]

That philosophy kinda blows when one is wired to grow romance out of close friendships. Guess I need some rewiring from the Love Squad

That is an interesting concept. I think it's 100% natural to start to like a person the more time you spend with them. But this seems to be a belief that only men have.

 

If you were to look on the forum it's being repeated constantly, case after case of men falling for a close friend. And all the women want to stay just friends and not ruin the friendship. I believe that this has been happening for thousands of years.

 

If only men and women could see eye to eye these things would be easier.

[carhill]

There is a balance point where the man can irritate the woman enough by his manly behaviors to keep himself out of the girlfriend with penis friendzone. Some of it is signals, some is challenge, some is physicality. I find, though a delicate balance, being an assertive male, absent overt (meaning crass and obvious) sexuality, tends to keep them wondering. Also, looking around for another deal (meaning intimate relationship) and paying attention to that deal when it presents itself. After all, best friends should support each other's happiness, right? Win-win.

 

With much experience in this area over many decades, my personal opinion is women don't purposely befriend males for purely platonic reasons. They pick those males whom they are not currently attracted to but sense signals from and test the male to see whether he will subvert his attraction to friendship. If he will, she keeps him around for a low level ego feed. It's energizing to know he's attracted, even a little, but they're not going anywhere with it. Nice little innocent sexual tension fix. Also, a great tool to have in the box for doing "manly" things. It enhances the other positives of the friendship, for her. Men do this as well, but they generally will get tripped up by their libido.

 

I've been experimenting with this dynamic of late and find the tool aspect fascinating. If properly managed and fed, men make great tools.

[somedude81]

Hmm I guess men also use female friends as "tools" as well. I know I certainly felt better whenever I was around my friend. It just felt really good having a girl at my side.

 

Which makes me wonder if men and women can truly be friends when each person is using the other as some form of personal validation. It's like two parasites feeding off each other.

 

That makes me wonder. Do I "win" if I'm aware of the game and I get more from her than she gets from me? Meaning if I know the balance point and am able to keep the game in my favor so that my needs are met?

 

I know this sounds awfully cruel but it's only fair that we both get what we want.

[carhill]

As was mentioned in another thread, it's the balance of power which is key. It is a rare man, IME, who can get close to a woman and feel no attraction whatsoever. Once he feels it, even if not overtly expressed, the balance of power shifts. OTOH, I've experienced (and we routinely read threads here) women who have male friends with whom they are extremely close emotionally and have no attraction whatsoever, to the extent that they think of the man as a brother or familial member. The only way for that type of friendship to be in balance is if the man can be equally close and invested without feeling attraction. I've had such friendships and they've been incredibly satisfying. Generally, IME, the friendships ended when one or the other became seriously involved with someone else romantically and the friendship was seen as a threat to the romance and/or one of the friends did end up developing overt attraction and the friendship became uncomfortable. For myself, I had two end in such ways, one actually with both dynamics for the woman (I essentially became a quasi OM) and the other when I developed attraction and couldn't manage it. Regardless, the friendships were still valuable parts of my life and I have positive memories of them. I certainly hope people don't avoid such valuable connections simply because of fear of "what-if". Life is short

[lammie]

I certainly hope people don't avoid such valuable connections simply because of fear of "what-if". Life is short

 

I'm rather the opposite i couldn't let go because i don't want to regret and keep asking the "what-if's".

[carhill]

Ah, I understand. I've felt the same way. This is an important area that MC helped me with. Acceptance. Relationships have value. They are healthy. Just because they end doesn't negate those realities. Accepting their value and the positive energy they bring to one's life is incredibly freeing. Value your place and position in that dynamic. Trust that you have importance.

[somedude81]

As was mentioned in another thread, it's the balance of power which is key. It is a rare man, IME, who can get close to a woman and feel no attraction whatsoever. Once he feels it, even if not overtly expressed, the balance of power shifts.

And that is the problem. It is simply in the genetics of men to feel attracted to women he is close to. It doesn't even matter if she is not the mans "type." As long as she is remotely attractive the man cannot help himself. If the man is in a relationship or at least sexually fulfilled he may be able to resist his friends, "feminine charms."

 

Are platonic friendships with women, a losing situation for men?

 

OTOH, I've experienced (and we routinely read threads here) women who have male friends with whom they are extremely close emotionally and have no attraction whatsoever, to the extent that they think of the man as a brother or familial member. The only way for that type of friendship to be in balance is if the man can be equally close and invested without feeling attraction.

That is exactly what happened to me and her. I would love to see a thread written by her about her friendship with me.

 

Obviously I was not able to get equally close without feeling attraction. Heck me wanting to have sex with girls I think attractive is completely natural for me. The situation got really ugly when it went beyond just feelings of lust and intimacy got involved. I didn't have a chance. The last thing I want to do is fall in love.

 

I have positive memories of them. I certainly hope people don't avoid such valuable connections simply because of fear of "what-if". Life is short

This is the point I'm at now. I'm trying to decide if my memories with my friend are positive or negative. I had a lot of fun with her and really enjoyed her company. Yet this whole time I wanted so much more from her and both of us ended being hurt. In essence it wasn't all good or all bad.

 

Right now though, I do not want another platonic friendship with a girl. I'm going to be left feeling empty and unsatisfied. This thought may change once I begin to have an actual sex life.